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What now!!

heidiho
June 16th, 2004, 12:14 PM
Well i have been hand feeding damien,but lately i have been going in the other room and letting him eat,and he will go eat and then after about a minute he comes up to me,then i tell him to go back and eat and he does,but this morning i put his food down and went and sat on couch well he comes up to me,and lays down,ears back and i pet him and say good boy go eat and he friggin growled,i was in the living room,he came to me,food was in kitchen..Why would he leave his food come over to me[i wasnt anywhere near the food] and growl??????WHY WHY WHY WHY....God i just dont think this is gonna go away.I honestly think something did happen when he was with his littermates,he is just a nervous wreck when eating he wont relax...............

Goldenmom
June 16th, 2004, 12:27 PM
Heidi, do not go there again! All of us here have been through this with you over and over and over. Drop it. You need to learn to deal with it, given all kinds of advice from here. You were to keep hand feeding him for a LONG time, not just a week. This is going to take months for you to trust him, not days or a week. You have to be consistent, not do whatever you want, when you feel like it.

Heather

heidiho
June 16th, 2004, 12:32 PM
I know that i have been,i will live with it if it doesnt change,i just wanted to see if we have made progress,my only question is why is he running over to me after i put the food down????I am still hand feeding,i am not going there again,just curious why he is leaving his food dish to come to me and then growl.....I will continue with hadn feeding for however long that is not the issue,was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts.....

Karin
June 16th, 2004, 12:52 PM
Well, maybe he is not growling? Ciara is a large dog too and she makes deep throated "noises", that anyone that does not know her would mistake for a growl. I myself was worried about this at first. She is only talking in the only way she knows how. Over time I have learned much about communication with her, one on one. We understand each other..

This is internet talk, what you percieve as growling, (we can't hear it) may be something different afterall.

Big dogs have a big voice. Even in play they cannot sound like a Poodle.

Watch for body signs at the same time. Damien is young and you need to dive into this relationship if you want to cross the species barrier of communication. Be careful and firm. Not all noises are a threat though.
My .02 cents.

Goldenmom
June 16th, 2004, 12:57 PM
You are absolutely right Karin. One of my golden girls "talks" and it sounds like growling also. Sometimes kids back up, but I say she is just "talking" for attention.

Heidi, does he curl his lips, can you see his teeth? is the fur on his back up? Tail down or wagging or nothing?

Heather

heidiho
June 16th, 2004, 12:58 PM
No believe me it is a growl,long story i cant get into again,we are working through food aggression right now,just wondering why he would not just keep eating,i was not even in the same room and he came to me and when i started petting him he growled.....Last 3 times he has been eating he will stop come over to wherever i am and lay there ears back i pet him tell him good boy go eat then he leaves and finishes eating,well obviously we got a long way to go,will not let him eat on his own again,was just seeing if it has gotten any better,it is just this is something new now,wondering why he did that.....

heidiho
June 16th, 2004, 01:05 PM
Goldenmom,here is exactly how it happens,i put food down make him sit and stay til i say ok,he goes to food bowl,i go to the bathroom,do my makeup a minute later he comes up to me,tail down ears down,i will pet him he looks up at me [looks nervous]then i will say go on baby go eat,then he goes back to food bowl,have dne it 3 x,it just happened to be this morning i sat on couch,which he cant see me from where he is eating in kitchen,i put food down,sat on couch he went i could here him eating then he came to me layed in front of me,ears down,looking at me with his head down eyes up,i started to pet him said good boy and he friggin growled at me,i swatted his nose & said no and put him in crate for ten minutes,took him back out and hand fed the rest,he just looks sooooooooo nervous when eating ,i swear something did happen when he was with littermates,i will handfeed for however long it does take,but i just dont get it.............He is sso wary while eating,oh well ,not trying to get into all this again,just why COME OVER TO ME AND GROWL when i am not even near his food is all i want to know..

Luba
June 16th, 2004, 01:10 PM
Put the food in his crate make him sit
leave it there for 20mins
take away what he left and didn't eat

END OF STORY!!!

He'll get the picture and so will you!

Karin
June 16th, 2004, 01:11 PM
I would think he would be more aggressive with the hand feeding than not. You are invading his food.
I would put his food down at meal time and go off to your own business. Ignore him..when he is hungry, he'll eat. He is at an awkward stage and is pushing your buttons. If he grumbles..ignore him. If he comes to you wanting affection, give it and praise him.
He is a smart dog. He's got you wrapped.

Karin
June 16th, 2004, 01:13 PM
You guy's type to fast.

Luba
June 16th, 2004, 01:14 PM
Who types too fast?
lmao

wanna race Karin

Get set
GO~!

heidiho
June 16th, 2004, 01:14 PM
Thank you Luba,cause you know what that is what i say,just let the dog eat and so be it,why aggravate him and me,he likes to eat in peace and be comforatable and he is very relaxed when he is in his crate,i know some dogs just dont want to be messed with while eating,and there is no reason to,i think your answer is what i will wind up having to do,i do not want a nervous dog,that is alwayd thinking someone is gonna take his food while he is eating..YEP,end of story,thank you..Next subject this one is done,I PROMISE YOU GUYS,still curious though why he came out of his way to growl at me,oh well.......I wish he could talk....Thanks you guys...

heidiho
June 16th, 2004, 01:16 PM
OH MY GOD Karin i know,he is a very smart dog,i read a book called gsd for dummies and it said the only two times you should not bother your dog is when he is sleeping or eating,this battle has been won,score 20 for Damien,mom 0....

Lucky Rescue
June 16th, 2004, 01:31 PM
It's possible he is doing this out of anxiety. He knows by the schedule (him eating, you in the bathroom, etc) that this means you are going to leave and he gets upset. Try changing the routine a bit.

Just a thought.

heidiho
June 16th, 2004, 01:35 PM
LR,I have also thought of that couldnt find the word,anxious is perfect,i actually feel bad because he is so uncomfortable when eating,i just want him to feel secure,and if it means i cant be near him while eating then so be it,i need him to feel relaxed and not think someone is gonna take his food away,poor thing,it sucks well thx for the advice.....

Lucky Rescue
June 16th, 2004, 06:11 PM
What kind of exercise does he get before you leave in the morning? Try changing your routine - for example - take him out for a good run, then come back and do your makeup, and put his food down just before you leave the house, let him eat it, then give him a stuffed Kong or bone and leave immediately.

Dogs get "Dread anticipation". They know by the sequence of events that something they don't like is going to happen and they react accordingly. By switching around the order that you do things,it might save him the anxiety of knowing just what is happening next.

heidiho
June 16th, 2004, 06:18 PM
Well lately i have been taking him to my best friends house,to hang out with her doberman,well when i picked him up yesterday,he pulled a piece of her carpet and ripped it about 20 inches straightacross,i could have died i felt horrible,i dont have money to fix that for her,see she has a room she turned into a playroom for the dogs,so now his choices are stay at my house in crate while i work,which i really dont like to do to him,or stay in her backyard,so that is what i am doing,he ruined it cant let him stay in her dog room,her carpet is so nice to,berber carpet,she said she is not mad,that he is just a pup.You are so right he totally knows the routine in the morning,and he does not like to be away from me,when i took him swimming at my ex-s the other night we went back in house and damien couldnt see me so he just barked and barked and cried,but when i sat on couch by the sliding glass door he saw me and then laid down and quit barking,i almost think he is to attached to me...

Missy
June 16th, 2004, 06:49 PM
Do you always give Damien attention when you are around? Normally when I am ready to leave, all I have to do is reach for Molly's kong and the PB and she runs straight to her crate, happy as can be. I doubt she even hears the door shut behind me!

But I have found that occassionally on a day when I have been spending extra time petting and playing with her, she will actually get a little anxious when I go to leave. So now, I make sure I don't pay any attention to her about 20 minutes or so before I leave.

heidiho
June 16th, 2004, 06:51 PM
Damein is smothered with attention at night but in the morning on days i do leave him in the crate when i go to work,as soon as i open the kitchen cabinet to get his treat and pick up my purse he goes right in his crate......

heidiho
June 16th, 2004, 06:52 PM
I will try that though about not paying attention,will be hard but i will give it a shot...

Iggette
June 17th, 2004, 07:21 AM
so that is what i am doing,he ruined it cant let him stay in her dog room,her carpet is so nice to,berber carpet,she said she is not mad,that he is just a pup.

Just curious......why such a nice carpet in a dog room :confused:

If I made a dog room and put carpet in it i would expect it to be ruined so maybe thats why she's not mad 'cause she expected it not to last

heidiho
June 17th, 2004, 09:42 AM
True,we should of layed something across the carpet,didnt think of that,it is just one of her extra bedrooms,her dog doesnt chew on stuff,really didnt think he would do that to carpet,oh well now he is outside with her dog instead...

Princesss04
June 17th, 2004, 10:42 AM
I thought it was like super hot at your house? Are they not hot out there all day? :cool:

heidiho
June 17th, 2004, 10:52 AM
You know i am trying my best to not keep him crated all day,have not found pet sitter i like yet,he cant stay in house,cant stay in my kitchen,will chew the wood,cant stay in her room now,so it is either keep him crated all day,or let him be outside to play,i spoke to my vet about him being outside and he said as long as he has shade,and lots of water it is fine for him to be outside....

Princesss04
June 17th, 2004, 11:03 AM
I am not yellong I promise. I am not even getting on to you I am proud that you are keeping him out of the crate. He is fine as long as he has water and shade you are right and you are fine. I was just going to say when we were talking about the heat and the sun the other day was this his way of not having to go to the tanning bed like we do! HEHEHEHEHEHE :D

heidiho
June 17th, 2004, 11:21 AM
Sorry,i am to sensitive i know,just was hoping someone didnt say that was wrong,because i am out of choices,yeah it is hot ,that is why i was torn leave him in crate or outside but vet said he is a dog he will be fine..Sorry again...

cutelittlemako
June 17th, 2004, 05:44 PM
Also, if the friend has a doberman (black with extremely short hair) she must not let her dog outside all day. So if she lets her dog in, she probably lets Damian in as well. I pet sit for my neighbour alot and I wouldn't let her lab out in the sun when my pup needs to come in the house!

heidiho
June 17th, 2004, 05:45 PM
Why cant they be out all day????

cutelittlemako
June 17th, 2004, 05:59 PM
He could die from the heat!
Even in the shade - heat is heat!
When the weather network says that it's 90 degrees outside, that's in the shade, not in the sunshine.

cutelittlemako
June 17th, 2004, 06:01 PM
she must not let her dog outside all day

By this I meant, she probably does not let her dog out all day... easily misunderstoog for "can not".

Sorry.

But still, you CAN NOT let a dog out in the heat all day.

heidiho
June 17th, 2004, 06:17 PM
Oh,I see,well we work together & sometimes she goes home for lunch,but if not they are outside til we get there,but there is a covered patio &also a huge canopy...But i would rather him have fun and play then be in the crate all day,cant do anymore for him then that.......And i think i am doing pretty,pretty good,if you ever watch curb your enthusiasm you woudl catch what that means,prett yfunny show..

Karin
June 17th, 2004, 06:31 PM
Why is it so many people are migrating south these day's, New Foundlands and St. Bernards in tow, and these dogs are left outside in weather they cannot possibly be adjusted too?
In Arizona, Texas, California and all the southern states dogs have survived because most are acclimated to the weather. In the west, it is a dry heat, 110 degrees feels like 80 degrees to me. I am so acclimated to tropical heat I get dehydrated in the western part of our country.
I hear all the complaints about our humidity from tourist..we have for the most part, 95 to 100 degrees with anywhere to 50% to 100% humidity during the summer. I still cuddle my blankie every night even in August! * did I say "blankie" out loud again?*
I so wanted to move to Tuscon in the 1980's after working there for just a few days..it was too dry for me.
Acclimation...we all have it..it's what makes home.."home" for some.
I am not defending anything here but different lattitudes and longitudes that we all are governed by where we live.
*The End*

cutelittlemako
June 17th, 2004, 06:36 PM
Karin, are you saying that you can leave a dog out in 100 degree heat all day?

heidiho
June 18th, 2004, 10:02 AM
My vet says you can,with shade and water for them.....

Lucky Rescue
June 18th, 2004, 10:06 AM
You just have to be sure the dog has access to shade all day. Sometimes the area could be shady when you leave in the morning, but in full sunlight another time of day.

heidiho
June 18th, 2004, 10:07 AM
Your right,there is a canopy out there on one side of the house where sun rises,no as hot,so by midday it is shaded there,also covered patio..

Luba
June 18th, 2004, 12:01 PM
Be careful patio concrete/pavement can retain a LOT of heat!

heidiho
June 18th, 2004, 12:54 PM
i am sure they move off the patio if to hot

wAggie
June 19th, 2004, 11:48 AM
could it be that ur overfeeding him? he feels he's done so he walks over to u for some cuddles and u reject him rudely so he vents his frustration at u?

heidiho
June 19th, 2004, 11:56 AM
are u asking me that??

wAggie
June 19th, 2004, 12:06 PM
calm down and REREAD what i wrote.

heidiho
June 19th, 2004, 12:11 PM
i am calm,just asking you,i read it and dont know what you are referring to,so it cant be me..

cutelittlemako
June 19th, 2004, 02:35 PM
I THINK what Waggie is saying is that your dog might eat all he feels like eaten and is full, he goes to you for some cuddling and you (not knowing this is what he wants) tell him to go eat.

I don't know if this has been suggested before, but this is what I would do. Try giving him a different kind of dog food - and by different I mean different texture. For example canned food. He won't know what it is (if he's never had it), so you put it in a different food bolw (not the one you usually use), sit on the floor with it and act like it's yours. Then "share" it with him. Like your doing him a favor. Pet him while you give it to him. I'm sure he doesn't growl at you when you are eating your own food, so act the same way but with his food.

I don't know if this is a good idea or not, but I myself would definetely try it.
And if i'm wrong, don't worry someone will call me on it ;) . When I feed Mako I started making him sit. He had to sit until his food bowl was down, if he got up before it was down, I lifted it back up again and made him sit. Now I make him wait. I put the bowl down, but I say "wait" before he can eat it. He waits a few seconds then I say GO. I feel that way Mako knows that I am the one who control his eating. You pup just has to learn that he can't bite the hand that feeds him.

melanie
June 20th, 2004, 05:09 PM
charlie GSD and lived in lots of very hot places, coped well outside but with the right stuff, excess water, shade, grass, trees and lots of other cooling things. and only excersise after dark or early morn. also a great idea and fun is to get a little baby swimming pool. we had a round plastic one (tarpolin lasts longer though) and she loved it, would get in anytime and lie there, small round pool so she would get in the middle, lie down and swim on her side in circles :rolleyes: if you get in it and play with him he will most likely like it and it will be fun and cooling for you. it is a nice relief for them and fun too (also a permanant drinking hole :rolleyes: )but when we got a square one she refused to look at it, it has to be round for her, little freak :p . also freeze toys for fun and relief, there are a million things to do, get creative, stay cool and have fun out of the sun :D

wAggie
June 20th, 2004, 07:38 PM
I THINK what Waggie is saying is that your dog might eat all he feels like eaten and is full, he goes to you for some cuddling and you (not knowing this is what he wants) tell him to go eat.

ty, clm.......

perhaps its even the food dish. maybe he prefers stainless steel over the plastic bowl...?

a vet can help u sort all of this out. yes, a vet can even help u out with dog behaviour...

heidiho
June 21st, 2004, 10:36 AM
I see,what i also read was just take food and put on kitchen floor,so i did that this weekend to,cause maybe it is his bowl,trying everything

AM04
June 24th, 2004, 02:19 AM
I dont want to get off on the wrong foot with you, heidi, cuz I noticed u posted that u were sensitive... and I dont know if I have a standing in saying this, but from the threads before mine, it seems you have been told suggestions about what to do earlier. You should have listened. And please do.

My friend has a dog, cockapoo, that was food agressive.. and now he's approx. 4 yrs old, and I'm afraid to go to their house, because if you're sitting on their couch eating something, the dog will, politely, be on the other side of the room.. staring at you.. if u finish eating and not give him any of it, then he charges at you, and growls. He's bitten me on many occasions. Not hard enough to draw blood, but mind you, he's a cockapoo which is ALOT smaller than a GSD, meaning your damien can, and probably will, do alot more damage if his personality becomes any where near that of Toby's.

I think the best idea that was posted for you to do, was to make him sit, with the crate for 20mins thing. Tho I've never had the need to crate train my dogs.

Again, I must say, please listen to these ppl. They know alot, and are trying to help you the best they can. They can't help if u dont listen. What if this food agression presisted, and a child were to come in your life? Here is where I say not to take this seriously or anything, and PLEASE dont get offended. I dont want to fights, but would you put the child in a crate? put the dog in it for the child's visit? what would happen if he became aware of his power while using his food agression, and it persisted outside of the home? or what would happen if he did bite someone?

Have you considered taking him to puppy classes? or a doggy daycare? The daycare that I use to visit near my school gave free lessons, and helped with behaviour problems.

sammiec
June 24th, 2004, 08:47 AM
Just to let you know. I read the other day about this lady (an idiot) that left her dog (siberian husky puppy 6 months) out in 98 degree heat and went to the grocery store; she left a cold pool, shade, drinking water with ice etc. etc. She came back from the grocery store to find her dog in convulsions in the backyard - the vet said it was heat stroke. It's a gamble, and not one that I personally would be willing to make. The way I see it, the wood, carpet doors etc. can be replaced, but to lose the life of a dog and live with that - I'll pass thanks...

heidiho
June 24th, 2004, 08:49 AM
I am not gonna get mad,i am sensitive i know,done fighting here though,he is getting a little better with the food,gonna be a tough battle but i am trying different things..

heidiho
June 24th, 2004, 08:54 AM
You know i do the best i can,he is 6 months old,he will not have free run of house,tried it he chewed wall,couch and coffee table,was gonna give him the kitchen but i am not rich,so i cannot afford to have him chew on the cabinets,i do not have money to pay for that when i move out,when he is older he will have apt..So i can crate him or let him play outside with my friends dog,thousands of dogs stay outside all the time,here in arizona and across the world.have not come across a pet sitter i care for,i am sure i will not please everyone here,but he is happy when we go there..There are dogs out there that never get to come in house and are kept outside all the time,i am a great pet owner,my dog is spoiled,probably to much,so i have no worries about heatstorke,my vet said it is fine for him to be outside.

sammiec
June 24th, 2004, 09:03 AM
soory heidi I guess that post sounded wrong.. I just was trying to say that I would not be willing to leave my dog outside. I know you're trying, that's fine. But I presonally would try anything but leave him outside...that's all I meant. Sure I'd be pissed if I came home to everything chewed everyday, I just meant that if it was one cupboard door - not ALL the cupboard doors...that I would be willing to sacrifice. That's all, sorry about that...

heidiho
June 24th, 2004, 09:11 AM
Believe me,that is why i did i used to not bring him there,i did not like the idea of him being outside all day either,i left him in apt one day for 4 hours and that is when he chewed all that,but now in the morning he is so excited when we get ready to leave he just loves going over there.....

sammiec
June 24th, 2004, 09:23 AM
excellent, glad to hear it.

melanie
June 24th, 2004, 04:48 PM
i used to live in this really hot place a few years ago, it was made hotter by development, land clearing and ridiculous amounts of concrete, literally there were not many trees, or a blade of grass, it was a sad place. anywho, my vet at the time had reported a man who ran his dogs in the heat of the day 35-40c or 105F. he did it in full sun and what do you know, his dogs brain fried and he died. the vet said at the time to check the brain temperature if your worried, place a hand on top of the dogs head and feel the heat, if it is hot or very warm get out of the sun asap and cool down immeadiatly. so we just avoid mid day heat altogether. also some of the older style houses we have lived in have had no form of insulation, and often it was hotter inside the house in the mid day than outside under a tree. often the houses were like ovens and just so hot you would sweat standing still, and far to hot to leave her inside, outside was actually cooler on many occasions or at least the air was moving slightly with a small breeze so she would go out there..

and a husky in that sort of heat, what a moron that lady was, a bit of common sense can go along way :mad: . maybe she should have gone out with a jacket on and see how she likes it.

damian hasnt shown any problems with hanging out during the day, as long as he can get cool and shade he should be right. and he sounds like he is having a barrel of fun, just keep an eye on them and you will know. if you pop back at lunch check their temp, if all is fine there should not be a problem. yay for damiens new buddy :D

heidiho
June 24th, 2004, 04:52 PM
He does,he gets so excited it is adorable,yeah he is pooped when ipick him up,but that is ok with me.......................

heidiho
June 24th, 2004, 04:53 PM
I mean we do have days here that can be 110 and when that day comes he will be home in his crate.............whether he likes it or not..........

heidiho
June 24th, 2004, 05:58 PM
God i just dont get it,i am sitting here thinking why do i ahve the one pet in the world you cant spoil and love on all the time like most people can,i hate it.............................Makes me so sad,cause he is suchhh a smart dog,and i did some many things right with him,taught him so much.............

melanie
June 24th, 2004, 06:48 PM
you can spoil him and love him all you want, it just has to be done within certain boundaries and with certain rules. i tell you now, charlie knows she is not ever to go on the bed, yet every now and again she is found dead to the world on the bed, she is always re testing boundaries, that is her job, to push the envelope and see what she can get, she will always try periodically to test her position in the pack, and i think GSD arereally smart and need to be kept on top of. it is natural. and i am here to love, spoil and play but make sure she is reminded of that position. it may seem hard now, but once he has all his rules figured out, he will be fine. he just needs to learn a little is all, he is such a baby still, he is just testing out his world. love him, spoil him, but do it within reason. if it seems to hard or mean to keep him of the bed, dont let him in the room or keep door shut. if you dont wnat him in the kitchen, dont let him in. it may make you feel better if you remind yourself you are doing it so you can have a wonderful life togehter and for his own protection. all these little things add up to a well rounded dog, sometimes we have to be harsh to be kind, but we always think in human terms, but in pack terms, rules and boundaries are perfectly normal and good for pups..
and yes he is very smart, so you have to keep up with his mind. dont worry, time is what is needed. in a few years you will look back and laugh, it wont seem real one day. i think about charlies puppy hood and it is a world away, when i look at her i think, was that really the little sh$% that destroyed the house?? surely not, but yes it was her. one day it will all fall into place, stick to it and you will go far, be consistant and it will work. without consistancey there is no point and it wont work. so stick to it, use your sticktoitivness lady (my new fav word) :D :p