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Wellness Core for Cats

Mia101
February 17th, 2008, 02:08 PM
50% protein? Isn't that too much? I just tried a can of the regular Wellness. Has no grains, but it does have potatoes and carrots and such. 10% protein, I don't know what the normal amount in a canned food is - but 50% on the dry? I dunno about that,,,,,

She does like the canned (wow). I hope it's really good for her because it is hard to find a non-junk canned that she will eat!

Kristin7
February 17th, 2008, 06:38 PM
You're talking about the difference between wet and dry weight. I don't know the conversion offhand but the differences in what you quote for protein % are probably not as much as you think, and could even be the same amount. Yes, canned is great for cats, just better quality and more moisture which they all benefit from.

sugarcatmom
February 17th, 2008, 06:57 PM
50% protein? Isn't that too much? I just tried a can of the regular Wellness. Has no grains, but it does have potatoes and carrots and such. 10% protein, I don't know what the normal amount in a canned food is - but 50% on the dry? I dunno about that,,,,,

The dry weight % of protein per 100 calories of CORE is 47%, and the dry weight of the canned varieties averages out to around 30%, depending on flavour. The canned has more fat and less carbs.

She does like the canned (wow). I hope it's really good for her because it is hard to find a non-junk canned that she will eat!

Canned Wellness is an excellent product, that's great that your kitty likes it. In fact, I'd ditch the dry and feed only canned if I were you. It's just not necessary (and in fact can be harmful) for cats to eat kibble.

Kinguni
February 18th, 2008, 02:56 AM
Our cats easily switched to Wellness canned from dry kibble. Their fur has never been so soft, and they are both losing weight. Meeko was 20 lbs in November before being switched from Purina One kibble to ACANA, and then to Origen kibble. My wife said they wouldn't eat canned cat food, but they went nuts over their first canned food meal. Last week they finished off the last of the kibble and are now eating exclusively canned Wellness. I weighed him yesterday at under 16 lbs. I imagine he should likely weigh around 12 lbs and it shouldn't take too long to get there.

Mia101
April 9th, 2008, 09:52 PM
I'm working on getting her onto more canned, and in the meantime upgrading her dry. I'm worried over the protein content in the Core variety - too much damages kidneys.

growler~GateKeeper
April 9th, 2008, 10:30 PM
I'm worried over the protein content in the Core variety - too much damages kidneys.

Its actually not the protein you need to worry about it's the level of phosphorus. I have done a ton of research on kidney failure because my cat has it and recent studies have shown the protien levels make very little difference in the amount of work the kidney are doing. As long as you are feeding a good high quality protein, are keeping an eye on phosphorus and calcium levels. Unless your cat has a history or levels close to kidneys issues I don't think you need to worry about it.

Mia101
April 9th, 2008, 10:43 PM
Naturaly, she won't even eat it. SIGH. IT was $4/pound! Brat.

Anyway, in case she changes her mind, is this food OK with the phosphorous and such? She is 16 or 17, and I need her to live another 40 years or so :thumbs up

For some reason, I find less info on cat food than dog.:sad:

sugarcatmom
April 9th, 2008, 11:05 PM
I'm working on getting her onto more canned, and in the meantime upgrading her dry. I'm worried over the protein content in the Core variety - too much damages kidneys.

Quality protein does not damage kidneys. The best thing for kidney health is to ensure adequate water intake, so moving towards a wet food diet is the way to go. I think it's important to look at what cat's have evolved eating over thousands of years to see what an ideal feline diet would be. Mice generally have a protein content around 50% (dry matter), so there's nothing wrong with CORE in that respect. But mice are also around 60-70% water, which is where CORE falls down (10%). As an interim food while you transition to canned, it's fine.

Some links for you if you want to do your own research:
http://www.maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm
http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=whycatsneedcannedfood
http://www.catinfo.org/zorans_article.pdf

growler~GateKeeper
April 9th, 2008, 11:32 PM
Same age as my grrl :)

Has she had a full geriatric blood panel & urinalysis this year? at her age she really should be getting them done twice a year.

I would say for a cat 16 or 17 years old the phos & calcium levels are a bit high even without pre-existing renal issues. However the Core is based on a raw diet (way better than dry or canned foods) which is why the protien and related nutrient levels are higher.

If she is eating the grain free Wellness canned and won't eat the Core dry why not use this time to make a full switch to canned - if she already won't eat the krunchies you put out she should be eatting more of the canned.

As for the bag of Core you have now, your local shelter will gladly accept a food donation ;)

Mia101
April 9th, 2008, 11:54 PM
Well, she did like the wellness canned. But not enough for all her meals. She has a cut-off point and she will not eat anymore, it just crusts over and ruins.

The best I can do now is take the dry food away overnight and get her to eat as much of a can as possible in the AM, after that she will starve before eating any more unless I put out dry.

As I stated, I am working on that. Right now I'm trying to get a good dry going, and seeing if Wellness Core is even the right one to be trying.

I had a coupon making a 2 pound bag $3 so I decided 'what they heck'? I need to go back to the top ten list, ask another good company for coupons, and try again.

I will donate the Core if she continues to refuse it :thumbs up

She left it in the bottom of the bowl AS USUAL. She's eating Nutro which is OK but not good enough :sad:.

I'm leaving core only out for a day and a half, and after that I'm giving up. She WILL go three days without eating if she doesn't want it.

Maybe longer, but Ive not been able to hold out longer.

growler~GateKeeper
April 10th, 2008, 12:03 AM
Well, she did like the wellness canned. But not enough for all her meals. She has a cut-off point and she will not eat anymore, it just crusts over and ruins.

Are you adding water to the canned? Start with about a teaspoon or so, enough to make it stew like but not soupy if she takes to it like that you can add a bit more water if you like. Try warming it up a little bit in hot water in the sink, not in the microwave. The water will keep the food fresher longer plus make it smell more appetizing.

Have you tried Orijen dry? They have a trial size bag out now 400g here in BC, Canada the MSRP is under $3.

Mia101
April 10th, 2008, 12:11 AM
I have gone through every trick with the wet food. I have her on 1/2 canned right now, so I'm shifting my focus to the 'good dry' issue at this time. Then I will work on the wet food increase again.

Orijin is on the list to ask for samples/coupons from, thanks!

rainbow
April 10th, 2008, 12:24 AM
My cats won't eat much wet either so I supplement with Orijen kibble. They love it and are doing great. :pawprint:

Mia101
April 10th, 2008, 12:33 AM
It's soooo confusing too. Blue Buffalo's ingredients look better than Nutro, but the protein is lower and the carbs are higher. Argh! Those two she will eat, and each has an advantage over the other, but they seem to equal out to me to both be merely 'OK', not 'keep my cat alive and healthy for 40 years' material :wall:

Mia101
April 10th, 2008, 12:52 AM
Hee-hee. I just snuck 'Core' into some wet food she loves. Perhaps I can get a decent amount of it into her canned rations, while I continue to seek a dry she will eat by itself.

Love4himies
April 10th, 2008, 09:49 AM
Cat's are carnivores so 50% protein is not too much. I read somewhere that cats would actually eat about 95% protein if they were to eat rodents. However some of that protein is not quality.

I agree that it is not the amount of protein, but the quality that is important. I feed my cats a combination of foods, just so they are getting benefits from all.

I have noticed a remarkable improvement in my Puddles' health since switching her to Wellness, grain free canned as her main source of food. Took months and patience along with some tears of frustration, but was well worth it. Her fur is no longer greasy, she has developed wonderful muscle mass (yes at 12 years old), and is more energetic. That is proof to me the quality of Wellness. Thanks to growler and sugarcatmom (forever grateful)!

Sweet Pea as well. She came to me as a pregnant stray, so I can't blame her poor fur quality and muscle mass on food quality, just starvation. Sweet Pea's fur was actually better when she was so hungry nursing her 7 kittens that I was able to get her to eat raw and cooked meat as a supplement. Now she won't, think it is because she is never hungry enough, my fault.

As for kidneys and protein. Quality protein is used by the body and is not generally excreted through the kidneys. Poor quality protein can't be used (especially protein from grains) is not used by the body and is therefore excreted through the kidneys.

Wish you would reconsider the canned vs kibble. Their kidneys need constant flushing to ward off infections and crystals.

Mia101
April 10th, 2008, 01:24 PM
Poor quality protein can't be used (especially protein from grains) is not used by the body and is therefore excreted through the kidneys.

Wish you would reconsider the canned vs kibble. Their kidneys need constant flushing to ward off infections and crystals.


If that's true, than these foods with corn as a protein source is killing the kidneys on a lot of pets.

I *am* working on the wet, but she is still going to eat some dry, and I need to find a good one.

Love4himies
April 10th, 2008, 01:29 PM
If that's true, than these foods with corn as a protein source is killing the kidneys on a lot of pets.

I *am* working on the wet, but she is still going to eat some dry, and I need to find a good one.

Yes, you are right, the food I was feeding Puddles was CORN filled and her health was deteriating very quickly last year.

I did get a very good suggestion from either sugarcatmom or growler, can't remember, but they suggested I put some pulverized real food toppers on the canned food to entice Puddles to eat it. IT WORKED. It may work for you too.

Mia101
April 10th, 2008, 02:30 PM
That's awesome, I will try that.

Still focused on getting a good dry in place. It is not practical to eat 100% canned 100% of the time.

I know everyone wants the cats on canned, but it is possible to have a discussion on dry foods too?

sugarcatmom
April 10th, 2008, 03:44 PM
It is not practical to eat 100% canned 100% of the time.

Why not?

------

chico2
April 10th, 2008, 04:26 PM
My three cats are now almost exclusively eating Wellness grainfree canned 3 times/day,but they have been fed canned since they were babies.
They used to free-feed on dry food,but no more,none of mine are too keen on dry food,but they like it as treats.
I could never get them to like Welness Core or regular Wellness dry,they did not seem to like the smallish kibble.
I feel really good about them liking Wellness cans,at least I know they are eating something good.
Hubby does not agree,it gets a bit pricey with 3 cats,but they deserve it.
I found one store that charges"only"$1.05/can compared to $1.29 at Pet-Value.

BusterKitty
April 10th, 2008, 05:12 PM
If you don't feel safe feeding canned or dry, how about trying raw? If your kitty likes it and it's not very expensive, then go for it because it's just like what a cat would eat in the wild. Canned is great for cats because they need water in their systems so canned food provides that. I don't know why it's not practical to feed canned 100%:confused: It's very healthy for them.

Mia101
April 10th, 2008, 07:03 PM
I don't want to be rude, but I will start a thread on canned food when that is my concern.

I really, REALLY want to talk about dry. I am a bad cat mom, I insist on feeding some dry food. I outright refuse to switch to canned only, attempts at persuasion are futile.

I'd like it to be the best one it can, though. I came here to talk about dry foods and appreciate any on-topic remarks :thumbs up

Mia101
April 10th, 2008, 07:13 PM
My three cats are now almost exclusively eating Wellness grainfree canned 3 times/day,but they have been fed canned since they were babies.
They used to free-feed on dry food,but no more,none of mine are too keen on dry food,but they like it as treats.
I could never get them to like Welness Core or regular Wellness dry,they did not seem to like the smallish kibble.
I feel really good about them liking Wellness cans,at least I know they are eating something good.
Hubby does not agree,it gets a bit pricey with 3 cats,but they deserve it.
I found one store that charges"only"$1.05/can compared to $1.29 at Pet-Value.


Go to their website and request coupons. I got (2) $5 off! That's how the bag of 'Core' was only $3. A box of dog treats for $1 as well. :lovestruck:

They also sent some $1 off, which made the cans cost pennies :-).

Mia101
April 10th, 2008, 07:31 PM
Refusing the 'Core'. Off to the store to try this formula of Wellness, maybe the fishy part will appeal to her. It may not be the best, but it's got to be better than Nutro or Blue:

http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/cat_wellness_dry_complete_health_salmon.html

And I'm going to look into whether I can use the 'Core' for dog treats, lol. I know cat food isn't good for dogs but maybe it's OK or even good for them in small doses (this kind anyway, being mostly meat).

sugarcatmom
April 10th, 2008, 10:19 PM
I came here to talk about dry foods and appreciate any on-topic remarks :thumbs up

Okay, my "on-topic" remark about dry food is that there is no good reason for a cat to be fed it. I am fully aware of my nagging tendencies on this issue :D, but I can't in good conscience, recommend ANY dry food. All aspects of it (texture, ingredients, moisture level) are inappropriate for felines. The reason it's so popular is because it's so cheap and convenient for people. Does nothing for cats, and may in fact cause harm. So I wish you luck in your quest, that's all the input I have.

growler~GateKeeper
April 11th, 2008, 12:43 AM
As requested - sticking to Dry only - another good one is Eagle Pack Holistic Select

Love4himies
April 11th, 2008, 06:29 AM
When I was feeding Jasper Wellness Core, he had very loose stools, so I switched to Orijen and he doesn't have that problem anymore. I know every kitty is different, but thought I would share my experience.

I would like to add that Jasper has some digestive issues anyway and CAN'T eat any food with grain.

chico2
April 11th, 2008, 07:19 AM
Dry food in my mind,was created for the convenience of people not what's good for cats,although the ingredients nowadays are definetly better.
I have a friend who feeds her kitten Whiskas dry and only Whiskas dry,nothing else:yell:
Her answer to my suggestions"OMG,I won't mess with canned food!!"
Then again,she also resently had her kitten declawed:yell::yell::yell:it did not matter to her what I told her about it,poor kitten:sad:
MIA,sorry for straying:offtopic:

Mia101
April 11th, 2008, 04:25 PM
Y'all are hysterical. I love my cat. I have spent at least $100 on food that was donated because she won't eat it in my quest to find premium canned and dry that she will consent to.

I've bought one on every variety in the store and taken notes on which she nibbled on, which she scarfed, etc.

I found a canned she will eat, a good one, Wellness grain-free. She, at this time, will only eat so much of it and then starve until I give her dry.

WHILE I am working on that, shouldn't the dry she eats IN THE MEANTIME be a good one?

But people won't help talk about a good dry. That makes a lot of sense. I guess it's better for her to eat meow mix dry while I am moving to canned ?

In the protest against dry, y'all are missing the big picture. I will find another forum.

Thanks for the few people that helped me, and to those that care, she ate the Wellness Complete health I linked above, woo-hoo! Hopefully it wasn't a one-time thing.

It looks much better than Nutro to me.:thumbs up

There are some people that are truly only going to feed dry, and will not go through all this to feed canned - y'all are doing every cat a DISSERVICE not helping those people find a GOOD dry - they will just stick with their meow mix.

WERID.

chico2
April 11th, 2008, 04:36 PM
Mia,I don't know why you got in a huff,you already have some very good ideas of good dry food.such as Wellness and Orijen,also Evo,I believe.
My cats eat some dry,not much,mostly for treats.
My Chico is not a good canned food eater,eats just a little,he has a little bowl of dried just for him.

phoozles
April 11th, 2008, 04:39 PM
But Mia, you asked for opinions - those that feed dry gave you options, and those that don't believe in dry told you their thoughts on why canned is best.

If someone is against feeding dry food, it is their opinion that there isn't a good dry food :shrug:

Everyone is entitled to make their own choices - to do the research and figure out what works best for them. Sugarcatmom is kind of our resident guru when it comes to cat nutrition - she had done a lot of research before she came to her conclusions as to what to feed her cat.

I believe you got your answers for dry food directly, and some options in case you wanted to go another way. I'm not sure what else you're looking for. :confused:

Anyway, if you are leaving for good, we'd be sorry to see you go, and I hope she continues to do well on the food you're feeding her.

want4rain
April 11th, 2008, 04:51 PM
u try Evo?

sugarcatmom
April 11th, 2008, 05:20 PM
But people won't help talk about a good dry. That makes a lot of sense. I guess it's better for her to eat meow mix dry while I am moving to canned ?

See, that's not what you said in an earlier post:


I insist on feeding some dry food. I outright refuse to switch to canned only, attempts at persuasion are futile.


I'd be happy to recommend some dry foods for the interim, to help you transition to wet. But I was responding to your determination that dry food should be a permanent part of your cat's diet, which is not something I agree with. I understand your frustration, I've been there. My 2 cats ate dry Science Diet Light for most of their lives and because of that, I now have one with diabetes and one that's dead. It took me about a year to eliminate all the dry from the surviving cat's diet, but when I finally did, he lost 2 pounds, his insulin requirements dropped from 4.5 units twice a day to 1.5 units, and even with diabetes, he's healthier than he's ever been (glossy, dandruff free-coat that hardly sheds, amazing energy for a 15 yr old, and his semi-annual lab results are "fabulous"). Yes, I'm preachy. So what. On other forums I belong to, I see again and again the harm that dry food does to cats, and it makes me cry. Of course people will say "ya, but my mom's/cousin's/friend's cat lived to 22 and all it ate was Cat Chow". And George Burn's lived to 100 smoking 10 cigars a day and drinking whisky, that doesn't mean we all should. There's a big difference between a cat "surviving" and "thriving". Personally, I'd vote for thriving.

rainbow
April 11th, 2008, 07:19 PM
Mia, I agree with everyone's comments. Bit, if you want a good kibble to supplement with, I would recommend Orijen.

Mia101
April 11th, 2008, 08:09 PM
See, that's not what you said in an earlier post:





I'd be happy to recommend some dry foods for the interim, to help you transition to wet. But I was responding to your determination that dry food should be a permanent part of your cat's diet, which is not something I agree with. I understand your frustration, I've been there. My 2 cats ate dry Science Diet Light for most of their lives and because of that, I now have one with diabetes and one that's dead. It took me about a year to eliminate all the dry from the surviving cat's diet, but when I finally did, he lost 2 pounds, his insulin requirements dropped from 4.5 units twice a day to 1.5 units, and even with diabetes, he's healthier than he's ever been (glossy, dandruff free-coat that hardly sheds, amazing energy for a 15 yr old, and his semi-annual lab results are "fabulous"). Yes, I'm preachy. So what. On other forums I belong to, I see again and again the harm that dry food does to cats, and it makes me cry. Of course people will say "ya, but my mom's/cousin's/friend's cat lived to 22 and all it ate was Cat Chow". And George Burn's lived to 100 smoking 10 cigars a day and drinking whisky, that doesn't mean we all should. There's a big difference between a cat "surviving" and "thriving". Personally, I'd vote for thriving.



LOL, that was a joke about refusing to do canned. I tried and tried to get people to leave the canned food thing alone and couldn't get them to,,,,,,,, that was one of my attempts at steering the conversation back to topic which is, out of dry foods, which I KNOW are 'not good' in general,,,,,,ah, forget it.

I've made myself clear, people just can't see it. I wish this forum was moderated.

I WILL TRY TO START OVER, JUST FOR FUN:


I AM TRANSITIONING TO CANNED. I HAVE READ ALL THE STUFF, I AM ON A MISSION OVER HERE. I WORK FROM HOME AND GET UP FROM MY DESK 14 TIMES A DAY TO DO THE TRICKS THAT GET HER TO EAT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE OF THE (GRAIN-FREE, PREMIUM!) CANNED FOOD.

SHE WILL NOT EAT MORE THAN A CERTAIN AMOUNT AT THIS TIME.

FOR NOW, JUST FOR NOW, MIND YOU, I HAVE TO FEED SOME DRY AND I'D LIKE IT TO BE THE BEST A DRY FOOD CAN BE,,,,,, DEFICIENT AS ALL DRY FOODS ARE,,,,,,,, THERE ARE SOME THAT ARE FAR WORSE THAN OTHERS.

Mia101
April 11th, 2008, 08:23 PM
But Mia, you asked for opinions - those that feed dry gave you options, and those that don't believe in dry told you their thoughts on why canned is best.

If someone is against feeding dry food, it is their opinion that there isn't a good dry food

Everyone is entitled to make their own choices - to do the research and figure out what works best for them. Sugarcatmom is kind of our resident guru when it comes to cat nutrition - she had done a lot of research before she came to her conclusions as to what to feed her cat.

I believe you got your answers for dry food directly, and some options in case you wanted to go another way. I'm not sure what else you're looking for.

Anyway, if you are leaving for good, we'd be sorry to see you go, and I hope she continues to do well on the food you're feeding her.

Thank you. Yes, I have the top ten lists. I have all the recommendations. I am limited to what she will eat. When I find one she will eat, I dissect it further than just finding out if it's a recommended brand in general.

When I have a premium, recommended food in my hand, my next job is to determine if the specifics of it's ingredients match the needs of my particular cat.

That is what I came here to do. Discuss the specifics of this brand for her.

I am not as mad as I sound, I am frustrated. If there is to be any amount of dry in her diet at all, I would like it to be the best for her that it can be.

It is not helpful to continue to repeat things I already know, have agreed with, and stated I am working on!

What is helpful is helping me dissect these dry foods given her age and condition (good, that I know of!)

I thank each and every person that has posted to help me in that direction :thumbs up

She had geriatric work-ups every year. Whatever the MOST amount of tests that can be done, that is what she gets.

I do not remember the specifics right now, but I took the lab reports and researched what they mean,,,,, she is A #1 on every count.

What I want is to keep it that way.:):):):):):):):):):)

I come here seeking the fellow pet-lovers who have been at this longer than I. I just think there are a few fanatics who seem to prefer she just eat crappy dry until I get her onto canned, in their quest to convince me of something I already know.




It's like saying 'no, I will not discuss whether salad at McDonald's is better for you than french fries. All McDonalds is bad and there is no point to discussing which items are better than others. If you won't agree to stop eating at McDonalds, I will not discuss food with you.

rainbow
April 11th, 2008, 10:32 PM
*cough* .....ahem, I hate to keep repeating myself, but have you considered supplementing with a grain-free kibble like Orijen?

sugarcatmom
April 11th, 2008, 10:42 PM
I just think there are a few fanatics who seem to prefer she just eat crappy dry until I get her onto canned, in their quest to convince me of something I already know.

Holy, relax. At no point did anyone say just to feed her crap. I've already said the CORE is a fine transition food. Orijen, as others have mentioned, would also be a good choice. I'm not sure what else it is you want to know about then. Maybe if you actually had a specific question, we could help.

Innova EVO has also been suggested. It's another grain-free kibble (the first) that lots of cats like, but in your case, given your cat's age, I think it's too high in phosphorus for the long-term. However, as a transition food, and in small amounts (it's also very high in calories), it would absolutely be better than most other dry options. As would any of the grain-free ones. If it's just a matter of finding something your cat likes, ask for lots of sample bags when you go to the store.

Some others to look for: Nature's Variety Raw Instinct (don't let the name fool you, it's actually kibble). But it's even higher in phosphorus than EVO (but lower in calories). There are a few newer ones like Solid Gold Indigo Moon and Merrick just came out with their B.G. grain-free line. I don't know what the specs are on those.

As for getting your kitty to eat more canned, have you tried pulverizing her favourite dry and sprinkling it on top? Love4himies already brought up the tip of powdered freeze-dried treats like Real Food Toppers (http://www.realfoodtoppers.com/) or Halo Liv-a-Littles (http://shop.halopets.com/Natural-Treats). Parmesan cheese works for some cats. Maybe tuna or sardine juice. You might also need to rotate flavours and/or brands of canned more, if you aren't already (for some reason, cats get bored of the same wet flavour much faster than they do dry).

What I used to do with my guy was feed him a little less than 1/4 cup of dry (EVO) twice a day at the same time. I would also put some wet down beside it. Usually he'd finish the dry first, and maybe have a few nibbles of wet in between. But I would leave the wet out all day until the next meal. Yes, I threw out a lot. Ever so slowly, I gave him less and less dry. And ever so slowly, he was eating more and more canned. At one point, I was seriously down to 1 teaspoon of dry twice a day. It was a bribe to get him excited about meals, cause boy did he love his kibble. Once he finished those few measly pieces and realized he was still hungry, he'd move on to the wet. It took me a long time to eventually wean him off even those 2 teaspoons, but we've been dry-free for 2 years now (I feel like I'm at an AA meeting). He currently free-feeds on a large variety of canned and raw.

Anyway, it was not my intention for this discussion to turn adversarial. I do want to help. It's just that when someone says they must feed their cat kibble (joking aside), I feel compelled to explain why they shouldn't. Good for you for working towards more wet food, that's more than most people even consider. Peace?

Mia101
April 11th, 2008, 11:05 PM
*cough* .....ahem, I hate to keep repeating myself, but have you considered supplementing with a grain-free kibble like Orijen?

Yes, I replied that's on my list to try.:)

Right now we are testing Wellness Complete Health:

Salmon, Salmon Meal, Whitefish Meal, Rice, Ground Barley, Ground Rice, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, a natural source of Vitamin E), Deboned Turkey, NatUral Chicken Flavor, NatUral Fish Flavor, Cranberries, Olive Oil, Chicory Root Extract, Cranberry Extract Powder, Cranberry Fiber, Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Thiamine Mononitrate, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Beta-Carotene, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement), Choline Chloride, Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dried Kelp, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulfate, Lactobacillus Plantarum, Enterococcus Faecium, lactobacillus Casei, lactobacillus Acidophilus, Taurine, Rosemary Extract.

This is a naturally preserved product.
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein Not Less Than 36.0%
Crude Fat
Not Less Than

18.0%
Crude Fiber
Not More Than

3.0%
Moisture
Not More Than

11.0%
Ash
Not More Than

6.5%
Magnesium
Not More Than

0.098%
Vitamin E Not Less Than 300 IU/kg
Taurine
Not Less Than

0.2%
Omega 6 (Linoleic Acid)
Not Less Than

3.5%
Omega 3 (Linoleic Acid)*
Not Less Than
0.45%
Total Micro-Organisms* Not Less Than 80,000,000 CFU/lb

Mia101
April 11th, 2008, 11:20 PM
Anyway, it was not my intention for this discussion to turn adversarial. I do want to help. It's just that when someone says they must feed their cat kibble (joking aside), I feel compelled to explain why they shouldn't. Good for you for working towards more wet food, that's more than most people even consider. Peace?

Of course peace. As I said, it's just frustrating to try to have a conversation about the best dry food constantly derailed by pleas for me to do something I'm already doing :frustrated:

Many here have testified that it sometimes takes a long time to convert a cat, and imo she should eat the healthiest kibble during that process.

As to specifics, my original concern was protein % in the 'Core'.

All the grain-free foods mentioned here are concerning to me since phosphorous levels were raised.

She is 16, I have to keep that in mind.

update: she likes the Core AND the Wellness Complete Health :-)

Mia101
April 12th, 2008, 01:54 AM
'Core': Calcium. Not More Than. 1.8%. Phosphorus, Not More Than, 1.45%

The calcium to phosphorus ratio should be
between 1.1 : 1.4 -1. If the phosphorus level is too high, calcium levels in the body can
become too low. If this occurs, the body will start to remove calcium from the bones.
The result can be lameness, spontaneous bone fractures, and kidney problems.



:confused:

Wellness canned: I'm not able to find the %'s for that. I do see it's in a pop-top can that can result in hyperthyroidism.:yell:

Love4himies
April 12th, 2008, 10:05 AM
Y'all are hysterical. I love my cat. I have spent at least $100 on food that was donated because she won't eat it in my quest to find premium canned and dry that she will consent to.

I've bought one on every variety in the store and taken notes on which she nibbled on, which she scarfed, etc.

I found a canned she will eat, a good one, Wellness grain-free. She, at this time, will only eat so much of it and then starve until I give her dry.

WHILE I am working on that, shouldn't the dry she eats IN THE MEANTIME be a good one?

But people won't help talk about a good dry. That makes a lot of sense. I guess it's better for her to eat meow mix dry while I am moving to canned ?

In the protest against dry, y'all are missing the big picture. I will find another forum.

Thanks for the few people that helped me, and to those that care, she ate the Wellness Complete health I linked above, woo-hoo! Hopefully it wasn't a one-time thing.

It looks much better than Nutro to me.:thumbs up

There are some people that are truly only going to feed dry, and will not go through all this to feed canned - y'all are doing every cat a DISSERVICE not helping those people find a GOOD dry - they will just stick with their meow mix.

WERID.

Mia, I understand all too well what you are going through. I did the same with Puddles. Did I mention the tears and frustration, broke my heart but I had to do what was best for her. It took months to get her to change foods and get her off kibble. Puddles is very skinny and can't afford to loose any weight. But here is the thing:

You control her food, it is your responsibilty to feed her what is best. If she goes hungry and misses a meal or two it won't hurt her at all. (unless she has liver problems) It didn't Puddles, and like I said, she has some health issues. The hungrier she is, the more will she will be to accept new food. This is no different than controlling a childs food, would you feed them chocolate and chips all the time if they preferred it and refused to eat one meal?

Try the freeze dried "Real Food Toppers" sprinkled on her food. You can get it in quality pet food stores.

Grocery store brand foods spray acid on their kibble so kitties prefer it, not that it is better for them.

Sugarcatmom and Growler are cat food genius's! Take their advice, it may add some years to your cat's life;) I did, and am so grateful!

Good luck! We are here for you to support you through this change.:grouphug:

sugarcatmom
April 12th, 2008, 11:32 AM
All the grain-free foods mentioned here are concerning to me since phosphorous levels were raised.

That is unfortunately the trade-off with a lot of these new foods. Personally, I think it's important to keep the carbohydrate levels lower, since an excess in that department puts a strain on the entire feline digestive system. Excess phosphorus is mostly considered a problem for compromised kidneys. The reason you might want to try to keep it within range for an older cat is because kidneys can start losing function without showing up right away on blood work.

Here's what I do about the phosphorus issue: there are a few high phosphorus foods (like canned By Nature Organics) that my cat really loves, so I just feed them intermittently. Other times he gets sufficiently low phosphorus, and I add a little extra water (couple teaspoons) to all his food to keep him well hydrated. If your cat is okay with it, I suggest adding water as well (not to the dry, just the canned).

update: she likes the Core AND the Wellness Complete Health :-)

That's great. You can mix them or alternate or whatever. I like CORE because it's not as high in phosphorus as most other grain-free ones (338 mg per 100 cal - while EVO is 396mg/100cal and N.V. Instinct is 418mg/100cal). The Complete Health Salmon is even lower with 237mg/100cal, but the compromise there is that the carb content jumps up to 26% of calories. CORE is only 11% of calories. Orijen is somewhere in the middle with 15% carb calories and a little less phosphorus than CORE (don't know the exact value, just their min/max percentage).


'Core': Calcium. Not More Than. 1.8%. Phosphorus, Not More Than, 1.45%

Even though these are the "guaranteed" values, not the "as fed" values, which would be more accurate, my calculation puts the calcium/phosphorus ratio at 1.2, which is perfectly in range.


Wellness canned: I'm not able to find the %'s for that. I do see it's in a pop-top can that can result in hyperthyroidism.:yell:

All the calcium/phosphorus ratios for the Wellness canned food are in range, they have to be to meet AAFCO standards. The fish flavours tend to be higher in phosphorus so I'd only feed those periodically, but the turkey, chicken, beef & chicken and kitten varieties all have decent phosphorus amounts.

As for the pop-top/hyperthyroid link, it may not be as cut-and-dried as that. There appear to be many different risk factors for hyper-T, even kitty litter (6X greater risk) and possibly fire retardant dust particles. Here's some reading on the issue: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?itool=abstractplus&db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15731835
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/thyroid__signs__symptoms_and_d.html

Still, it is important to realize that a good 25% of hyperthyroid cats have never eaten canned foods in their lives, so there is clearly more than one factor at work.

It should be mentioned that indoor lifestyle is definitely correlated to increased chance of a cat being diagnosed with hyperthyroidism. This has led to an assortment of speculations as to why this is:


Is there a chemical in cat litter involved?

Is there some other household chemical involved?

Do indoor cats simply have a greater likelihood of reaching the age at which hyperthyroidism develops? (While this is certainly true, we do not know if this is the whole story about why indoor cats have an increased rate of diagnosis.)

Are indoor cats more likely to see the vet and have diagnostic testing while outdoor cats simply go undiagnosed?


Purebred cats, especially the Siamese and Himalayan breeds, appear to have a decreased incidence of hyperthyroidism (meaning they are less likely to develop this condition). This implies that there are genetic factors at work as well.

If you really want to eliminate the supposed pop-top risk, there's always raw! But that's a whole other discussion........ :laughing: Anyway, I hope some of this helps you. I commend you for taking such a keen interest in your cat's food and may she live many many more healthy years. Keep up the good work!

Love4himies
April 12th, 2008, 12:04 PM
Mia, there is a food called Organics by Nature. It has no potatoes, grains or veggies in it. If you want to reduce carbs, you can mix this with other canned. I mix it with Sweet Pea's Wellness because she is overweight. If I don't have real meat to mix with her food, I use this, it seems to control her appetite very well. I emailed the company to confirm it is human grade meat used in this product.

http://www.bynaturepetfoods.com/productpages/organiccannedcat.php

Mia101
April 12th, 2008, 06:30 PM
You control her food, it is your responsibilty to feed her what is best. If she goes hungry and misses a meal or two it won't hurt her at all. (unless she has liver problems) It didn't Puddles, and like I said, she has some health issues. The hungrier she is, the more will she will be to accept new food. This is no different than controlling a childs food, would you feed them chocolate and chips all the time if they preferred it and refused to eat one meal?


I agree, and I tried this - she will go three days without eating if she's refusing a food - I don't think I should take it further.

I hardly think Wellness Complete Health kibble and 'Core' is comparable to feeding my child chips and candy.

Mia101
April 12th, 2008, 06:32 PM
Mia, there is a food called Organics by Nature. It has no potatoes, grains or veggies in it. If you want to reduce carbs, you can mix this with other canned. I mix it with Sweet Pea's Wellness because she is overweight. If I don't have real meat to mix with her food, I use this, it seems to control her appetite very well. I emailed the company to confirm it is human grade meat used in this product.

http://www.bynaturepetfoods.com/productpages/organiccannedcat.php


Thank you. I like this food, she doesn't. It's one of the many failed trials.

She has taken to Wellness canned (but it's got a pop top!), the Complete Health, and the Core. We're making progress ;-)



Sugarcatmom, thank you soooooooooo much, this is exactly the type of information I was seeking. The older kidneys not functioning as well, even if there are no lab tests to show it yet, is one of my huge concerns.

I'm dedicated to ridding her of too many carbs, but I don't want to trade one evil for another. I need a jumping off place to narrow the field of what to study and research, and you've helped greatly!

Love4himies
April 12th, 2008, 06:33 PM
I agree, and I tried this - she will go three days without eating if she's refusing a food - I don't think I should take it further.

I hardly think Wellness Complete Health kibble and 'Core' is comparable to feeding my child chips and candy.


Oh I feel your pain and frustration!:grouphug: I agree 3 days is long. How about mixing half her old food and half of the food you would like to change her to?

Mia101
April 12th, 2008, 06:46 PM
Oh I feel your pain and frustration!:grouphug: I agree 3 days is long. How about mixing half her old food and half of the food you would like to change her to?


She picks what she wants and leaves the rest. She is a master at this. For two months, she consistently left the food she didn't like at the bottom of every single bowl.

I fed it to the 'possums. I hope cat food is good for them.

growler~GateKeeper
April 12th, 2008, 10:41 PM
Wellness canned: I'm not able to find the %'s for that. I do see it's in a pop-top can that can result in hyperthyroidism.:yell:

The Turkey is the lowest in phos, followed by Chicken and Kitten Formula then Beef & Chicken. Which flavour variaties of Wellness canned do you have or are looking at? I have exact anaylsis' of everything from the company itself...let me know which ones you want

The pop-top can issue can be easily circumvented - once you open the can the lining is exposed to air which is what the concern is *the lining is the suspected cause* instead of leaving it in the can & putting the rest in the fridge, take it out & put it in either a glass dish covered w/plastic wrap or in a resealable plastic container such as Ziploc singles (I use these for Duffy's raw food).

Here (http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=45118) is my thread re: can lining & HyperT - which btw Duffy has been through & is cured but hers had nothing to do w/can linings, hers was a result of the deaths of my other cat, my dog & moving all within a 3 year time span - there are many many potential causes of HyperT.

If you are concerned about Kidney Failure my thread here (http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=45017) has a ton of info & links that may interest you.

btw what is your cat's name? :D

Love4himies
April 13th, 2008, 10:56 AM
Mia, sounds like your kitty is the exact same as Puddles!!!! Oh I feel for you, girl!

Puddles doesn't like the Organics either, even if I mix a bit with her Wellness, well you know, she smells the slightest different smell in her food and she won't touch it. If I sprinkle some "Real Food Toppers" on it, I can fool her. She is not the one I am most concerned about carbs though, it is Sweet Pea, she is overweight due to ME not cutting back enough on her feedings as she was slowly weaning her kittens. She gained weight very quickly, but is now slowly loosing it. Mixing Organics (50%) with her Wellness helps control her appetite I find.

Mia101
April 13th, 2008, 02:18 PM
Lov4himies,

I think that might make good use of the Sheba, I will try that when it's a wet food I'm trying to entice,,,,,,,, but I'm telling you, she is good. She can separate what she wants from the rest. If it is buried, she will simply forego it. Stubborn little thing.

I have requested coupons and samples from all the best cat food companies. I'm headed for another rampage where I line them up and go at each one, taking notes as to how she reacts.

I need some options other than the Wellness canned, as I'm sure she will tire of it.

I may have the dry settled for now. It will take a while to get rid of the mix of Nutro, Welnness CH, and Core, ever decreasing the amount of Nutro. Especially only a handful at a time if she continues to eat as much canned as she is this week.

Then I will be back analyzing the mix of *whatever* it all is, on all these different factors raised.

I wonder if the cat has any idea how much I lover her, lol! The dog feels left out. Guess I'll have to upgrade her Canidae when I've got the cat settled ;-).

Thanks everyone! Sorry I got so huffy:o

Love4himies
April 13th, 2008, 02:28 PM
You may be right, Mia, I mixed Fancy Feast with Puddle's Wellness. Puddles will only eat pate type food, I found she loves the Fromms, ch_duck_tuna and ch_duck_salmon so I mix a bit with her Wellness. She used to be a Fancy Feast addict and used to mix her Wellness with that before I discovered Fromms. If she eats Fancy Feast now, she vomits.

chico2
April 13th, 2008, 03:43 PM
The same here,mine were on Fancy Feast for years and loved it,but then I slowly started trying all kinds of food for my 3,they too will eat only pate-type,no slices or chunks.
The last tries were Eagle Pack,which they tired of in a week and now I feed them Wellness grain free,so far so good:thumbs up

zarhad
April 13th, 2008, 04:24 PM
I would love to put my cat Mishou on like an all natural diet or something along that lines, but shes so picky - I dont know how her last owner didnt catch on that was wasnt really eatting the food they were giving her (i kno because they game me some when I got her, no wonder she was skin and bones) I got her checked out her health is fine, shes just finnicky

Ive spent so much to just find food she will actually eat...and Ive got her on Iams original that seems to do the trick for her...she wont even eat treats or canned food...what kinda cat doesnt eat treats...but im gonna try plain cooked chiken as a treat and see how it works...

Mia101
April 13th, 2008, 07:13 PM
I would love to put my cat Mishou on like an all natural diet or something along that lines, but shes so picky - I dont know how her last owner didnt catch on that was wasnt really eatting the food they were giving her (i kno because they game me some when I got her, no wonder she was skin and bones) I got her checked out her health is fine, shes just finnicky

Ive spent so much to just find food she will actually eat...and Ive got her on Iams original that seems to do the trick for her...she wont even eat treats or canned food...what kinda cat doesnt eat treats...but im gonna try plain cooked chiken as a treat and see how it works...

Mine didn't like treats either, but she likes Greenies dental treats, and they are not expensive.

I hope you switch from Iams! Iams is a great start :thumbs up - more meat, etc. But you're paying a premium price for a non-premium food. It's much better than the other stuff in the grocery store, but not good enough for what they charge.

I had a hell of a time getting mine to switch (16 years of Iams!), but I think I've done it now.

After a while many acclimate their taste buds to appreciate better foods, and will start rejecting junk food, as one poster above mentioned.

I take away her dry food when I go to bed, and offer only canned when she wakes up hungry - this is how I got her to start eating some.:)

zarhad
April 13th, 2008, 09:25 PM
Mine didn't like treats either, but she likes Greenies dental treats, and they are not expensive.

I hope you switch from Iams! Iams is a great start :thumbs up - more meat, etc. But you're paying a premium price for a non-premium food. It's much better than the other stuff in the grocery store, but not good enough for what they charge.

I had a hell of a time getting mine to switch (16 years of Iams!), but I think I've done it now.

After a while many acclimate their taste buds to appreciate better foods, and will start rejecting junk food, as one poster above mentioned.

I take away her dry food when I go to bed, and offer only canned when she wakes up hungry - this is how I got her to start eating some.:)

Thats a great suggestion Im going to try them, and yah I know what you mean about Iams, her previous owner had her on whiskas (yuk) which is even worse, but its nice to know Im not the only one who has a picky cat, gives me some hope to get her on a better diet -thanks:highfive:

Mia101
April 14th, 2008, 06:50 PM
What's funny (ironic, not ha-ha) is she used to want wet and only wet. That was when we were told it wasn't good for their teeth. So she got used to it only 1-2 times per week as a treat. I think she is coming back around now to the wet way of eating.

And yeah, zarhad, you are definitely not the only one. In fact I think most cats are this way. Dogs are so easy to change foods. It's a nightmare with some cats, but it can be done eventually!

I think this is dry food #6 that she finally took to. And canned food # 187, lol, that's not a lot is it? :o

Mia101
April 16th, 2008, 02:34 AM
Things are going so well! She's up to half a can of Wellness per day - only a handful of dry at night, and I feel OK about the dry mix, it will be even better when the nutro is phased out.

Whoopie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It just takes patience and persistence :thumbs up

chico2
April 16th, 2008, 06:35 AM
Mia,that's great:thumbs up
I just started mine on Wellness a couple of weeks ago and they eat it with gusto.
Yesterday I bought 2 weeks worth of cans for 3 cats,all the different "no grain"varieties,a little pricey,but better than throwing food in the garbage:cat:

Love4himies
April 16th, 2008, 06:47 AM
That is great news, Mia!!!:thumbs up:highfive:

growler~GateKeeper
April 17th, 2008, 12:44 AM
Good work Mia :highfive: keep it up :thumbs up

rainbow
April 17th, 2008, 01:16 AM
WOO HOO.....glad to hear the good news. :thumbs up

Mia101
April 17th, 2008, 01:24 AM
Thanks, everyone!

<relaxing temporarily - the assault on finding other canned food will start shortly> lol.

I told my Mom it's like feeding a baby. You work at it all day long until they do it on their own.

Well, she's my baby, so there you have it!:)