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Help which food is better?

budboybudboy77
February 3rd, 2008, 01:04 PM
Hi I have two brands of food and I know these 2 foods are not the best ,but what I want to know is with the ingredients list which one of these is better, like i said though I know this is not the best food , I just want to know from the ingredients which one is better if we all were to chose one,pls don't say neither, I just want a 1st or 2nd choice and why pls.
Thks

Ist one::::::

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude protein: 26% min.
Crude fat: 16% min.
Crude fiber: 3% max.
Moisture: 10% max.

Ingredients:
Chicken meal, brewer’s rice, ground yellow corn, corn gluten meal, beet pulp, chicken fat naturally preserved with mixed tocopherols, dehydrated whole eggs, sundried tomato pomace, whole flax seeds, lecithin, natural flavor, canola oil, monosodium phosphate, calcium propionate, choline chloride, mannan-oligosaccharides, glucosamine sulphate, Yucca schidigera extracts, chondroitin sulphate, vitamins and minerals.


2nd::::::

Crude protein Min. 26.0%
Crude fat Min. 15.0%
Crude fiber Max. 5.0%
Humidity Max. 10.0%
Omega-3 Min. 0.75%
Omega-6 Min. 3.25%


Chicken, ground oats, fish meal, brown rice protein, ground whole barley, chicken fat (naturally preserved), ground brown rice, pearled barley, ground whole flaxseed, inulin, whole dired eggs, yucca schidigera, salt, monosodium phosphate, potassium chloride, garlic, taurine, vitamin E, choline chloride, beta-carotene, chondroitin sulphate, glucosamine hydrochloride, spinach, kelp, broccoli, sweet potato, apples, blueberries, pears, bananas, vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, ferrous sulphate, zinc oxide, niacin supplement, calcium pantothenate, copper sulphate, manganous oxide, riboflavin supplement, thiamine hydrochloride, calcium iodate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, sodium selenite, natural flavor.

(This product may contain tracé amounts of peanuts)

Tommysmom
February 3rd, 2008, 01:26 PM
You're right, neither is great, but for me the first one has wayyyyyyyyy too much corn. Between the brewer's rice, the yellow corn, and the corn gluten meal it's just way too much crappy stuff and too much potential for allergies and sensitivities with all that corn.

The second one seems much better than the first, although I'd be concerned about the 'fish meal' - no specific fish, and chicken as the first ingredient contains water so when you remove that the chicken would actually be much further down the list of ingredients.

If I had no other choices though, I'd go with the second one... just read through the first five ingredients and compare them.

Kinguni
February 3rd, 2008, 01:41 PM
IMO a little too much salt and not enough meat in the second, but it's far better than the first due to it's corn content.

rainbow
February 3rd, 2008, 01:45 PM
Even though the first one does have way to much corn I think it is slightly better than the second and I would just hope my dog didn't have an allergy to corn.

In the second one, like Tommysmom said, the chicken contains water so gets bumped further down the list and the fish meal isn't specific so it could be anything. Also fish meal is preserved with ethoxyquin :yuck: before it is sold to the pet food industry and they don't have to list ethoxyquin on their label because they didn't add it as as ingredient. :sad:

If those were the only two brands left on the planet, I would feed homemade.

rainbow
February 3rd, 2008, 01:53 PM
Btw, I thought you were going to try the Orijen Puppy or did you change your mind? :confused:

rainbow
February 3rd, 2008, 02:50 PM
If cost is a factor then the best kibble to feed is Kirkland Signature (or Diamond Naturals). Both are Costco's premium brands...Kirkland Signature is Canadian and the other is American.

budboybudboy77
February 4th, 2008, 11:22 AM
Hi Thks for the replies ,so far the second one seems better and like I said I am just asking which one of these you would pick?
I am still using Orijen but mixing it with another food.
pls keep the choices coming?
Wouldn't the chicken be a good ingredient though anyways?
What would be a perfect 3 - 4 first ingredients?

Thks

rainbow
February 4th, 2008, 01:00 PM
I like to see two named meals in the first 3-4 ingredients and I don't like wheat or corn as an ingredient at all.

If you are mixing in another brand with the Orijen because you are still not comfortable with the high protein why don't you try Wellness CORE as it only has 34% protein....

http://www.omhpet.com/wellness/dog_wellness_grain_original.html

Did you ever read the information on this website?? ...

http://www.dogaware.com/dogfeeding.html

You can also click on the links highlighted in blue for more great information.

Tommysmom
February 4th, 2008, 05:01 PM
Read, read, read! You can look at www.dogfoodanalysis.com as well, it will give you some good things about what to look for, why certain ingredients lower the quality of a food, etc. Look up the foods you are thinking of feeding and read the descriptions. Educate yourself, and then you won't care what we think of the foods, you'll make up your mind yourself:thumbs up.

budboybudboy77
February 5th, 2008, 08:07 PM
Hello Thks for replies and yes I have been to these sites and I am still reading.
I just want input on these 2 brands ,that is all .
I am still not sure on why corn is not good and rice is ?
They are both grains and anything with meal in it with a type of animal in front of it is not suppose to be good.
This is why I am asking just to make a choice between these 2 above.
I am still educating myself on it all.
For example chicken as a first ingredient should be good ,but it is mostly water (80%) I believe, but if this main ingredient which is suppose to be real chicken should it not be good?
We all eat chicken and there is alot of water in it depending how we cook it.

So anyways i still want input from others , it's like saying "professor keep your mouth shut and i'll do all the learning from the books myself" , you get the idea?

Thks

hazelrunpack
February 5th, 2008, 08:36 PM
Corn is a no-no because it is one of the most allergenic foods out there for dogs. Once the gut is primed for any allergic reaction, it can become hyperreactive to other ingredients and lead to inflammatory bowel issues. We lost a dog to IBD and the first ingredient he became allergic to was corn. So if you can find a food without any corn in it, you'll be way ahead of the game. :thumbs up

I think what they're saying about the chicken is not that it's bad--just that if you remove the moisture from it and measure it again, by weight it would be much lower down in the list, leaving grains as the main ingredients of the second food. I'd like to see two or more high-quality meat proteins in the top 5 ingredients.

Frenchy
February 5th, 2008, 08:43 PM
Corn is a no-no because it is one of the most allergenic foods out there for dogs.

That's right , and it is also a filler , makes the dog thinks he's full but he didn't get any proteins. Like eating pop corn. :shrug: I don't pay a lot for my dog's food , but it has no corn in it. And I supplement with yummy stuff.

Tommysmom
February 5th, 2008, 11:01 PM
I just want input on these 2 brands ,that is all .
I am still not sure on why corn is not good and rice is ?
They are both grains and anything with meal in it with a type of animal in front of it is not suppose to be good.


Corn is a poorly digestible cheap grain which yields few nutrients for the dog. Good stuff in there, but it just doesn't get digested enough - you know what happens to you after eating corn? Happens to your doggy too.

Meal is good - it is the animal meat with the water removed and therefore when it is listed as a top ingredient it still IS a top ingredient. For example, if you have two foods and one lists 'chicken' as the first ingredient and the second lists 'chicken meal' as the first, the one with chicken meal contains more chicken... when you remove the water weight from the 'chicken' it is actually far less by weight than the 'chicken meal'... follow me? What you want to avoid is non-specific meals, like 'poultry meal', which could be anything that might have worn feathers, or 'meat meal', 'fish meal' etc.

budboybudboy77
February 7th, 2008, 08:26 PM
Thks for the replies I follow you , and thank you very much for the explainations.

I didn't think rice was better than corn though I am a bit surprised there .

I know that my local vet sells Hills and the first ingredient is Corn???

How can they sell that stuff and also tell you it's good?

I am wondering if the food I was giving my Buddy for all his life made him get cancer?
I feel soooooooooooo guiltyyyyyy about this and I think about this everyday, I just can't get those thoughts out of my head , the thing is in his first 7 yrs of his life he was never sick -never had bad poop ,never vomited ,never had rashes, never had allergies , never had blood in either poop or vomit ,etc.

I really don't know??

Thks again

Masha
February 7th, 2008, 08:58 PM
Budboy, don't be so hard on yourself! We have all been there... I was feeding my cat Science Diet until I joined this forum and started researching ingredients.... You did the best with what you knew at the time!!!

My Vet was also pushing me to feed my boys with Hill's. But the more I spoke to people on this board and the more I read, I understood that Vets do not have any proper education on Nutrition (most Vets).

The Vet just recommended my parents' dog be switched to a medi-cal food that has a corn product and brewers rice as the first 2 ingredients :yuck: !!!!

Keep researching and dont feel bad. We cannot change the past, we can only learn from it.....

budboybudboy77
February 8th, 2008, 09:05 PM
Thank you Masha I am learning alot from the past and the future , I just really really am screwed up since Buddies passing , he was an incredible dog and a first family dog.
I wake up feeling sad every morning because of his passing and what we could have done more.I think all day long about him and my errors with the food I did.

I loved him soooo much , never another like him.
I was diagnosed more than 2 yrs ago with depression because of my work , anyways that first year I was at home and my baby Bud was with me every minute and was laying next to the couch below me just like he knew something was wrong, he kept me going without him sorry to say I might be dead today.
I owe him alot and sorry to say this private stuff on here but I have hard a very hard time with the depression when he was alive but when he passed I was getting better and now well , I want to join him ,which I won't do but I missss
himmmm sooooooo much.
Sorry for the personal stuff but I have to talk to someone.

Thks

Winston
February 9th, 2008, 05:17 AM
Budboy! You boy is with you every day in the memories you hold so dear! Try to think of how your Buddy helped you when you were down!

I personally have not dealt with depression but certainly have felt that way many times. You cant change anything if you didnt know any better..

Time will heal your pain...and Shaker will help you too! I am sure he has lots of love to go around...draw your strength from everything Buddy did for you....and please feel free to talk personal stuff on here...There are days when I have felt this board to be the only people that understand...

You know I had Winston on vet food for 7 yrs...nothing but skin problems, allergies etc etc...Now that I have a bit more education on food he has no more problems...Do I feel guilty? Absolutely, cause I feel like I made him have those problems...but in reality I know I didnt know any better BUT now I do! Stay dtrong Budboy! things will get better...

Oh! and can I tell you how confusing it was to learn about all the food issues!!! OMG!

Take Care
Cindy

budboybudboy77
February 14th, 2008, 07:17 PM
Hello Winston(Cindy) ,
I Thank You sooo much for writing back and helping me out on the situation.I'm sorry I could not get back sooner but I had computer problems and also alot of snow here, already since winter started until this week of Feb we have had 260 cm (8 feet and 8 inches if I'm right).

Anyways I am a little better now and Shaker is keeping me busy and he is helping me too.Thank you for the offer also to talk about the personal stuff , it might be needed.
Oh yes the food thing is a bit confusing sometimes but I am learning more and more everyday.
I think about Buddy everyday and how he has helped me, miss him alot.

Again thks for the reply I really appreciate it.

Rick

rainbow
February 14th, 2008, 07:49 PM
OMG...where do you live that you have had 8 feet of snow? :eek: I remember those days when we lived in Kitimat BC. :frustrated: How much do you have left now?

Have you decided on a food yet?

Also, I think it's about time you posted more ppics of Shaker in the Photo Forum. :thumbs up

phoozles
February 15th, 2008, 04:35 PM
I second that motion - puppy pics please! :D

budboybudboy77
February 19th, 2008, 07:59 PM
Hello everyone thks for replies I am near Montreal ,the 8 feet of snow is from Nov 2007 until last week, these are total accumulations.What is left well I'll send a pic of 2 of that if admins won't mind.
I will upload some pics Wednesday Feb 20 of Shaker ,no problems there.

Just wanted to say also what a great forum this is and I for one am very , very happy it is here ,it has helped me alot in greiving on the passing of my Buddy.

I am still on 2 kinds of food and one is the Orijen he loves that.

budboybudboy77
February 23rd, 2008, 11:28 AM
Hello sorry for the late ness the pics were to posted days ago but we have all been sick the past few days , cold and flu mix i would guess ,feeling really crappy right now.
Anyways I posted some pics of Shaker in the pics section.

Have a good day all.