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What's Wrong with my Cat, Snoopy?

Shabby
January 31st, 2008, 11:06 PM
Hi Pet Lovers:

My 10 year-9 month old male, neutered, indoor cat (Snoopy) is ill or old?? I've had him to the vet THREE times, all to no avail. Snoopy was a 22lb. cat who, in the past 11 months has dropped to 10lbs. The odd thing is; since losing all this weight rapidly, he has an excessive appetite which he never had before he began losing weight.

He is now just 'bone', covered by skin but eats and eats and eats and eats but is still bone thin.

Anyone have any idea what could be wrong?

THANK YOU
Shabby

krdahmer
January 31st, 2008, 11:10 PM
Has the vet checked his thyroid? And for diabetes?

badger
January 31st, 2008, 11:27 PM
These are classic symptoms of hyperthyroidism, I can't believe the vet missed it. Did he draw any blood for testing? You need to take Snoopy back in tomorrow. Ask for a thyroid test. If that is what he has, it can be treated, don't worry.

growler~GateKeeper
February 1st, 2008, 01:23 AM
Absolutely sounds like Hyperthyroidism - have his T3 and T4 thyroid levels checked and do it now!

phoozles
February 1st, 2008, 12:26 PM
I agree - get the test done and then switch vets! Any vet that can't detect those major signs should not be getting your money. :2cents:

Love4himies
February 1st, 2008, 02:21 PM
I agree - get the test done and then switch vets! Any vet that can't detect those major signs should not be getting your money. :2cents:

Or switch vets first and get the test. Phoozles right, if your vet didn't do blood work to find out what was wrong, then switch vets.

kiara
February 1st, 2008, 02:22 PM
Did your cat have any health problems before? Your cat is getting old and he has lost a lot of weight in such a short time (which is very dangerous). And now has a huge appetite, but is not gaining weight? He needs to have a blood and urine test, also a thyroid test. Have you ever taken him to another vet? Yours does not sound good to me, I would switch if I was you. Let us know what happened.

ancientgirl
February 1st, 2008, 02:33 PM
I'd take him to another vet. If your current vet has seen him 3 times and found nothing to explain his weight loss, then they don't seem to know what they're doing.

You aren't obligated to take him to the same vet, get a second opinion for your kitty.

Shabby
February 1st, 2008, 04:28 PM
Hi Pet Lover Friends:

THANK YOU to all of you who responded so quickly! I have taken your advice and switched vets. A good friend of mine has a fantastic vet whom she has taken her 5 cats too for the past 6 years. Snoopy will be seeing him on Monday.

My husband is dropping Snoopy off at 8:00a.m. and my friend Kathy, will meet him there. She will speak to her vet with my husband, then Snoopy will spend the day there and hubby will pick him up on his way home from work at 5:30p.m. So...we should have an answer for you all by Monday evening.

When I spoke to the vet's office today, they said they'll do a complete blood work-up and specifically mentioned it could be: hyperthyroidism or diabetes. We'll see.

By the way, I can't take old Snoop in myself as I am recovering from a heart attack scare last Saturday.

I'll be back Monday to let you know what we find out!

THANK YOU dedicated Pet Friends!

Hugs from
Snoopy!:cat:

FlynnMB
February 1st, 2008, 04:41 PM
I have a cat who went through the exact same, the cat was skin & bone, I gave worm tablets I fed mince steak etc. to no avail, until she showed me her hidden kittens which she was feeding.

Now I'm (seriously!) not saying that this is the case (judging by age etc.) but it would make your vet look, well, quare silly:D.

Hope he improves tho'. Cats are so sociable with each other that there is no knowing what other cat is around spreading flu or the likes. Ask the SPCA if they know a vet who is knowing about cats (some country vets pooh pooh at family pets & only want a horse or a cow).

chico2
February 1st, 2008, 04:59 PM
I am glad you changed vets,both HT and diabetis can be managed.
My 12 yr old Rocky had the exact same symptoms and is doing quiet well on meds,he has Hyper Thyroidism.
Oh,and by the way a 10yr old kitty is far from old:cat:
Good Luck at the vets!!

rainbow
February 1st, 2008, 05:05 PM
Glad you are changing vets to get the tests done. :thumbs up

Sorry to hear about your heart attack scare. :grouphug: That's no fun for sure and hope you are okay. :fingerscr

Good luck at the new vet on Monday and keep us posted. :fingerscr :goodvibes:

Shabby
February 1st, 2008, 05:16 PM
I too, already feel better about Snoopy visiting a new vet. Especially a vet whom my friend knows so well. I'll also be taking my 2 very spoiled, big baby, German Shepherds to him from now on as well...that is...if I like him. I'm sure I will as Kathy talks about him non-stop and his office was so, so pleasant on the phone with me today and seemed to be sincerely concerned for Snoopy.

As for Snoopy having "hidden kittens"...not a chance. 1st he is male, 2nd he's been neutered and 3rd he has never been outside. lol

The heart attack scare was truly one of the most terrifying incidents I've been through. Chest pain, tingling left hand, arm and shoulder, nasuea, difficulty breathing etc. But..I DID turn "50" yesterday! I don't want to be 50 anything!!

rainbow
February 1st, 2008, 07:45 PM
A belated http://bestsmileys.com/birthday1/13.gif to you. :party:

Welcome to the over 50 club ...there are a few of us here and this is my motto :D .....

Shabby
February 1st, 2008, 09:30 PM
Dear Rainbow:

THANK YOU for the belated '50th' birthday wishes!!!! How very, very, VERY nice of you!!!!! You are an :angel:

And...I haven't grown up yet and hope I don't! I still don't want to be 50, or 50 anything for that matter, but I have no choice.

THANK YOU again. :thumbs up

rainbow
February 2nd, 2008, 12:04 AM
:laughing: In a couple of years you will get used to it. :D I am going to be 60 next month. :eek: I just wish that my body would feel as young as my mind does. :D

growler~GateKeeper
February 2nd, 2008, 01:41 AM
Shabby - :grouphug: for the heart attack scare I hope you got checked out by a Dr :fingerscr

and Happy Belated Birthday http://bestsmileys.com/birthday1/3.gif

I'm so glad you've getting Snoopy retested with a vet someone close to you has recommended :thumbs up

:goodvibes: for the visit Monday, my Duffy :cat: had Hyperthyroidism (she has been cured through one available treatment) so I know how scary the huge weight loss is :grouphug: Both Hyperthyroidism & Diabetes can be controlled :)

krdahmer
February 2nd, 2008, 09:48 AM
Wow... lots of excitement for you huh... well Happy Birthday!... Hope you never have another heart attack scare:pray::goodvibes:...and good luck to Snoopy for monday! Hope you get a manageable answer! :fingerscr: :grouphug:

Shabby
February 2nd, 2008, 12:19 PM
:laughing: In a couple of years you will get used to it. :D I am going to be 60 next month. :eek: I just wish that my body would feel as young as my mind does. :D

I hope you're right! I really, really, really, really don't want to be 50 :cry: I hear re: the body not feeling young. I've been housebound now for 4 years!

Cheers:)

Shabby
February 2nd, 2008, 12:24 PM
Shabby - :grouphug: for the heart attack scare I hope you got checked out by a Dr :fingerscr

and Happy Belated Birthday http://bestsmileys.com/birthday1/3.gif

I'm so glad you've getting Snoopy retested with a vet someone close to you has recommended :thumbs up

:goodvibes: for the visit Monday, my Duffy :cat: had Hyperthyroidism (she has been cured through one available treatment) so I know how scary the huge weight loss is :grouphug: Both Hyperthyroidism & Diabetes can be controlled :)

Yes, hubby called 911 and I was taken by ambulance and have to see my own doctor this Wednesday.

Thanks for the belated birthday wishes.

I'm feeling much better about my poor old Snoopy and can hardly wait until he see's the new vet on Monday. I'll miss him because hubby is dropping him off at 8:00a.m. and I won't see him again until around 6:00 or so. :cry: His weight loss is pathetic and makes me sad each time I look at him. I'm just praying the vet can determine what's wrong and that he tells me it IS treatable.:pray:

Shabby
February 2nd, 2008, 12:30 PM
Wow... lots of excitement for you huh... well Happy Birthday!... Hope you never have another heart attack scare:pray::goodvibes:...and good luck to Snoopy for monday! Hope you get a manageable answer! :fingerscr: :grouphug:


My life has had too much excitement since July of 2006! I keep surrendering but no one appears to be listening!

Thank you for all your good wishes! Ya know, I've learned that pet owners are the most truly compassionate, caring and loving people in the world and it's very TRUE! I haven't been on this site since 2004 and I'm sorry now I haven't kept in touch but will do so from here on in.

Everyone here is so genuinely caring about their pets and their owners!

THANK YOU:angel2:

Winston
February 2nd, 2008, 02:11 PM
Thank you for all your good wishes! Ya know, I've learned that pet owners are the most truly compassionate, caring and loving people in the world and it's very TRUE! I haven't been on this site since 2004 and I'm sorry now I haven't kept in touch but will do so from here on in.

OMG you have been around for 2 yrs longer than me...you have 14 or so posts and I have 1200 or so! I guess this reply should read

Hi I am Winstons Mom! ..... I am addicted to pets.ca!! :laughing::laughing:

Just kidding ! Your right this is a great place and alot of wonderful people!
Hope your feeling better! Sending good vibes for Snoopy on Monday!

Cindy

Rottielover
February 2nd, 2008, 02:16 PM
With the blood work, would they see liver failure or kidney disease. That is much too much weight to lose.
My moms cat and my own were both rushed to EMG vet for the drastic weight loss, and were informed that both were liver damaged...

chico2
February 2nd, 2008, 05:12 PM
Rottielover,anything is possible,but this is exactly how Rocky was ,extreemly hungry all the time,pacing and weightloss.
He went from 16lb's to 12lb's in no time and he ate a lot of food.
He was diagnosed with HT.
But of course a lot of problems have similar symptoms.

Shabby
February 2nd, 2008, 05:19 PM
Thank you for all your good wishes! Ya know, I've learned that pet owners are the most truly compassionate, caring and loving people in the world and it's very TRUE! I haven't been on this site since 2004 and I'm sorry now I haven't kept in touch but will do so from here on in.

OMG you have been around for 2 yrs longer than me...you have 14 or so posts and I have 1200 or so! I guess this reply should read

Hi I am Winstons Mom! ..... I am addicted to pets.ca!! :laughing::laughing:

Just kidding ! Your right this is a great place and alot of wonderful people!
Hope your feeling better! Sending good vibes for Snoopy on Monday!

Cindy

I think I have alot of catching up to do! My measely 14 or so posts vs. your 1200 and counting..... :thumbs up

Shabby
February 2nd, 2008, 05:22 PM
With the blood work, would they see liver failure or kidney disease. That is much too much weight to lose.
My moms cat and my own were both rushed to EMG vet for the drastic weight loss, and were informed that both were liver damaged...

Oh my goodness, liver damage!!!!! Awww, that's terrible. :cry: What was the outcome?

Shabby
February 2nd, 2008, 05:26 PM
Rottielover,anything is possible,but this is exactly how Rocky was ,extreemly hungry all the time,pacing and weightloss.
He went from 16lb's to 12lb's in no time and he ate a lot of food.
He was diagnosed with HT.
But of course a lot of problems have similar symptoms.

Sorry I'm butting in on your note to Rottielover, but wanted to ask you if Rocky recovered?

chico2
February 3rd, 2008, 07:58 AM
Shabby,there are still a few problems to work out,like meds dosage and he's had runny poop for a long time,but otherwise he is a happy,cuddly,playful 12yr old kitty and I hope he has at least another 8 yrs to live:pray:
I also at one time had a diabetic cat,who with the help of insulin lived to be 17yrs old,when he succumbed to cancer.(:rip:Peppi)

I too am in the process of introducing myself and my cats to a new vet,I'll be seeing him tomorrow.
Also,50yrs is a milestone for sure,49 sounds sooo much younger:D,but when you reach my age(64 since jan) things like age don't matter anymore.
It just hits you,you cannot plan as far ahead as you used to and treasure every new spring..
and you are right,some of the best people in the world are members of this Forum:thumbs up

Shabby
February 3rd, 2008, 07:33 PM
Shabby,there are still a few problems to work out,like meds dosage and he's had runny poop for a long time,but otherwise he is a happy,cuddly,playful 12yr old kitty and I hope he has at least another 8 yrs to live:pray:
I also at one time had a diabetic cat,who with the help of insulin lived to be 17yrs old,when he succumbed to cancer.(:rip:Peppi)

I too am in the process of introducing myself and my cats to a new vet,I'll be seeing him tomorrow.
Also,50yrs is a milestone for sure,49 sounds sooo much younger:D,but when you reach my age(64 since jan) things like age don't matter anymore.
It just hits you,you cannot plan as far ahead as you used to and treasure every new spring..
and you are right,some of the best people in the world are members of this Forum:thumbs up

Thank you for all the knowledge you've provided me regarding my sweet old Snoopy! Snoopy is the first cat we've ever owned as I am actually deathly allergic to cats but I love them. We had adopted an 8 year old beagle from an Animal Society in Lakefield a few years back. The third day we had him, he attacked our son Michael in the middle of the night, tore him from his bed and literally attacked him like he was a rag doll. This dog tore Mike's right eye open right across the line in his eye lid. We thought he was going to lose his sight in that eye, but fortunately he didn't. Mike still has the scar.

The Lakefield Animal Shelter took Macky and quarantined him for 15 days and then destroyed him. The vet who investigated said this dog was suffering from something called "idiopathic rage". He had apparently been terribly abused by the previous owner whose original intention was to use Macky as a hunting dog. However, Macky was found to have a heart murmur so he was religated to this man's backyard, chained to a tree 24/7 for the past 6 years before we got him. The vet said when this dog slept, he often had "nightmares" about the abuse and would attack anything that was closest to him. Macky unfortunately that night, was sleeping just inside Mike's bedroom door. Mike was only 7 at the time. So...Lakefield Animal Shelter felt terrible and told us to come and pick another dog for free but Mike didn't want another dog at the time. He BEGGED for a cat! I called my physician to ask if she thought it possible for me to get used to a cat with my severe allergy to them. She believed it would be tough, but I could probably build up a 'tolerance' to him. So..we took Snoopy when we was 9 months old. I lived on mega doses of allergy meds for about 6 months but did build a tolerance. I still have terrible reactions if he accidentally scratches me when I cut his nails, or if he rubs his face on mine. I'm also still extremely allergic to other people's cats, like my friend Kathy who has 5!

So we're both introducing our pets to new vets tomorrow! Quite a day for the animals. I'll definitely be on the site tomorrow evening when my husband picks up Snoopy after work to let everyone know what this new vet has found.

Happy Belated 64th Birthday!!! :party: THAT is a milestone!! People always say they're "29 and holding"...I'd be happy now to say I'm "49" and holding!!:) But, 50 is the new reality, no matter how grim it makes me feel.

Have a great evening and thank you again for sharing!

growler~GateKeeper
February 3rd, 2008, 07:39 PM
:sad: sorry to hear about your son & the issues with Macky :sad:

I hope you have friends w/dogs that Mike can play with & that you take Mike to the park so he can interact with happy friendly dogs & not develop a complete fear of all dogs :fingerscr :goodvibes:

ancientgirl
February 3rd, 2008, 07:56 PM
I'm so sorry for what happened to your son. And I'm incredibly sorry for poor Macky and the abuse he had to live through.

I commend you for having a cat even though you're allergic. I'm incredibly allergic too. People like us and many on this forum are a testament to the words "It can be done." of course, if you are willing to work at it and suffer a bit. LOL. I also live on medication. My allergies recently caused me to develop asthma as well. But my kitties are my babies and I would not trade them for anything in the world, not even a day with no medication LOL.

Good luck with your vet visit. I hope they can finally get Snoopy on the track to getting healthy.

Shabby
February 3rd, 2008, 08:13 PM
:sad: sorry to hear about your son & the issues with Macky :sad:

I hope you have friends w/dogs that Mike can play with & that you take Mike to the park so he can interact with happy friendly dogs & not develop a complete fear of all dogs :fingerscr :goodvibes:


Oh, first...Mike is now 17 years old, our other son Rob is 15. Second, we have two female German Shepherds who are "biological" sisters. There were 10 in the litter and we took 2 of them. Their names are Nellie and Shadow and they were born on April 15, 2002 so they'll be turning 6 in April and Snoppy will be 11 in May.

We adopted Snoopy in February 1998 when he was 9 months old. So he was "king of the house" until we brought "my girls" home at the age of 8 weeks at the end of June 2002. My girls are extremely spoiled and are the biggest babies you'll ever meet. Their temperments are very, very docile and they are very loving. Nellie firmly believes that ANYONE who visits our house is here for the sole purpose to visit HER and to spend their entire time patting HER, period, end of story! lol Shadow is a little more the type who'll hang back for a few minutes, check you out, ALLOW YOU to pat her, then goes and lays down. Nellie on the other hand, sits beside you constantly unless I make her leave the person alone.

Both girls have their "own couches" in our living room for daytime hours. Nellie sleeps with Mike at night and Shadow sleeps with my husband and I and old Snoopy sleeps with Rob.

My girls are with me inside the house 24/7. Wherever I am, you'll find my girls. Being housebound now for the past 4 years, I don't know what I'd do without them. I absolutely LOVE MY GIRLS!!!!:dog::dog:

Nellie was diagnosed with Grade 4 hip dysplasia Jan. 10, 2006. She had also suffered from panosteitis or long bone when she was young. Shadow has no problems.

I'm sorry if you misunderstood what I said earlier. I was just letting people know how we came to get Snoopy in the first place since I'm so deathly allergic to cats.

growler~GateKeeper
February 3rd, 2008, 08:28 PM
:o sorry my mistake, I wasn't thinking when I posted that...of course that was several years ago :headslap: glad Mike had no retained fear of dogs :thumbs up

Shabby
February 3rd, 2008, 08:54 PM
:o sorry my mistake, I wasn't thinking when I posted that...of course that was several years ago :headslap: glad Mike had no retained fear of dogs :thumbs up

No problem...we all make mistakes. I do that sometimes too, just don't think!:goodvibes:

Shabby
February 3rd, 2008, 08:58 PM
I'm so sorry for what happened to your son. And I'm incredibly sorry for poor Macky and the abuse he had to live through.

I commend you for having a cat even though you're allergic. I'm incredibly allergic too. People like us and many on this forum are a testament to the words "It can be done." of course, if you are willing to work at it and suffer a bit. LOL. I also live on medication. My allergies recently caused me to develop asthma as well. But my kitties are my babies and I would not trade them for anything in the world, not even a day with no medication LOL.

Good luck with your vet visit. I hope they can finally get Snoopy on the track to getting healthy.

Yes we too were very sorry for what poor Macky had been through.

I have severe asthma too and use ventolin and atrovent as well as Symbicort to fight Snoops dander! But he is worth it. :shrug: What can I say. If you love animals enough, you'll do anything.

I'll let everyone know tomorrow night how Snoopy makes out.

Cheers!:)

Shabby
February 4th, 2008, 06:00 PM
The new vet has said that Snoopy has diabetes and will require insulin injections twice daily. They are keeping him in the hospital until Wednesday to keep an eye on him and to get him started on the correct doses of insulin. Hubby and I are to be there at 4:45 on Wednesday to learn how to give Snoopy his injections.

The vet said there is no reason that Snoopy shouldn't keep on living a full life as long as we are diligent. On Wednesday he will explain to us what we need to watch for etc., and how to give the injections and then we can bring him home with us then.

I'm SOOOOOO happy :thumbs up:D:D that he is going to be okay. However, I've missed him so much today that I don't know how I'll get through Tuesday and most of Wednesday without him. :cry:

phoozles
February 4th, 2008, 06:05 PM
Yay! :highfive: I'm glad you finally got a diagnosis for poor Snoopy! :thumbs up

Diabetes in cats is very manageable, and there are a lot of members on this forum who have diabetic cats to help you along the way!

Can't wait to see pictures of your little guy when he gets back from the vet!

Shabby
February 4th, 2008, 06:23 PM
Yay! :highfive: I'm glad you finally got a diagnosis for poor Snoopy! :thumbs up

Diabetes in cats is very manageable, and there are a lot of members on this forum who have diabetic cats to help you along the way!

Can't wait to see pictures of your little guy when he gets back from the vet!

Thanks phoozles!!!! I'm also pleased to hear there are alot of other members with diabetic cats who can give me advice! I hope they see this message.

ancientgirl
February 4th, 2008, 06:42 PM
I'm so glad you got a diagnosis for Snoopy. That was the most important thing, to find out what was wrong with him. And even though he is diabetic, it's something that is treatable.

sugarcatmom
February 4th, 2008, 06:54 PM
Thanks phoozles!!!! I'm also pleased to hear there are alot of other members with diabetic cats who can give me advice! I hope they see this message.

Hi Shabby, glad that Snoopy 'only' has diabetes (since weight loss can also be a sign of much worse conditions like cancer). Diabetes is absolutely manageable, although you may find a bit of a steep learning curve at first. My 15yr old cat, Aztec, has been diabetic for the last 5 years, and he's doing awesome. A really great site for info and support is this one: http://felinediabetes.com/. There's a ton to read so you may want to bookmark it and visit it frequently so that your brain doesn't go into overload.

What food are you currently feeding Snoopy? High carbohydrate dry food can play a large role in causing cats to develop diabetes, so you might want to seriously consider a diet change to low-carb, high-protein canned food. There's more info here about an appropriate feline diet: http://www.catinfo.org/felinediabetes.htm The vet may try to push a prescription diet on you but these are unnecessary. They have poor ingredients and are stupidly expensive.

Now, I realize Snoopy is at the vets supposedly to get "regulated" but this is another unnecessary expense. Cats cannot be regulated in a couple days under such stressful conditions, and unless there is something else wrong with him (ketoacidosis, for example) there is no reason that he can't come home today. In fact, the dose they come up with at the clinic could end up being too high once Snoopy is home since stress can artificially raise blood glucose levels. It's better just to start with a low dose (1 unit twice a day) at home, and go from there.

You can learn how to test Snoopy's blood glucose yourself (using a human glucometer from any pharmacy), taking blood from the edge of his ear. Most cats are very tolerant of this after a bit of practice (especially if treats are involved). There are links on the Feline Diabetes website above about how to do this.

One thing I must add, please do not make any diet changes unless you are home testing Snoopy's BG! Going from high carb dry food to low carb wet food can cause insulin needs to drop dramatically and Snoopy may end up with hypoglycemia. Many cats go off of exogenous insulin all together with an improved diet, so you need to be very careful.

Let me know what type and amount of insulin Snoopy has been prescribed when you find out.

sugarcatmom
February 4th, 2008, 07:46 PM
Just wanted to add: shame on your previous vet for not catching this sooner! He absolutely should have screened for diabetes at some point in Snoopy's 3 previous visits. Any time an older cat loses weight like that and has a ravenous appetite, diabetes should be one of the top 3 things checked for. Grrrrr.

Shabby
February 4th, 2008, 09:41 PM
Hi SugarcatMom:

Thank you so very much for the wealth of information you've provided me with. I have just bookmarked both the sites you've given me and as soon as I'm finished with this reply, I'm heading to both sites to read thru them.

Snoopy has always eaten dry food. So, when he comes home should I slowly switch him over to canned wet food? If I switch, how many days should I continue with the dry and wet food until I give him only the wet? What brand and how much would you recommend I give him? Snoopy is the first cat we've owned and I don't know alot about cats but have a wealth of information about dogs, so I sincerely appreciate all the advice I can get about Snoopy.

I'm not quite sure I completely understand what you mean about not making any diet changes unless I'm home checking Snoopy's BG? Are you saying I should not change his food for awhile? What is a normal BG for cats?

I'm very happy to hear that Aztec has done so well!!! That makes me feel a whole lot better, considering he too must have been 10 years old when he was diagnosed?

Snoopy is also staying at the vets because we called back later today and asked them to please check his teeth because his breath has also been foul, foul, foul?

I will most definitely let you know the type and amount of insulin when I find out Wednesday.

Thank you again for providing me with so much information! Like I've said before, the nicest, most caring and compassionate people on earth are pet lovers!!

loopoo
February 4th, 2008, 11:13 PM
this is also a good site which lists cat food carbs, fat, and protein

http://www.geocities.com/jmpeerson/canfood.html

a lot of good info on this site, which also states maximum carb counts and a bunch of other info for cats with diabetes. Talks alot about how a higher protein low carb diet benefits among other things.

As far as switching many say over a ten day period, start with 3/4 old food and 1/4 new food for 3 days, then go to 1/2 new 1/2 old food for 3-4 days, then 3/4 new 1/4 old food for the last 3-4 days. Watch your cats tummy, poop habits of course all the while, if anything seems to change, diarrhea, vomiting, may want to elongate the procedure even more. If there is anything severe, could be an intolerance to that specific food, and best to go back to the old instead of moving forward with the new, and trying a different brand. best wishes for snoopy :)

loopoo
February 4th, 2008, 11:18 PM
I read posts too fast..:o definitely want to monitor the bg as sugar mentioned as well, i was just trying to give an idea of switching foods as a general, moving more slowly is definitely best for most kitties digestives as well. But what sugarcat said about waiting until he is home and regulating that first is important. When youre ready though that site has really good carb/protein info for many brands.

growler~GateKeeper
February 4th, 2008, 11:30 PM
Shabby Glad you got a treatable diagnoses :thumbs up
I have no knowledge about diabetes just want to send you :goodvibes: but Sugarcatmom is an :angel2: & a very valuable wealth of knowledge we're lucky to have her :goodvibes:

sugarcatmom
February 5th, 2008, 12:10 AM
So, when he comes home should I slowly switch him over to canned wet food?

Only if you are able to home-test Snoopy's blood as you go so that you'll know if it's safe to give him insulin. Going from high carb dry food (which can cause high blood glucose and therefore require more insulin) to a low carb canned food without making a corresponding adjustment to the insulin dose has the potential to cause hypoglycemia, something you absolutely want to avoid. Here is some very important info on treating hypos: http://felinediabetes.com/hypogly.htm And here is a page about home testing: http://felinediabetes.com/bg-test.htm

I would say that until you're comfortable testing Snoopy before every shot, it would be a good idea to keep his food the same.


If I switch, how many days should I continue with the dry and wet food until I give him only the wet?

Try going at whatever pace Snoopy seems able to handle. Has he ever had canned food? Some cats don't even recognize canned as edible right away and may need some convincing. Here are tips for transitioning: http://www.catinfo.org/#Transitioning_Dry_Food_Addicts_to_Canned_Food_

What brand and how much would you recommend I give him?

That depends on a combination of what your budget can handle and what Snoopy is willing to chow down on. Some of the higher quality, grain-free (or almost) varieties that I like are Wellness, By Nature Organics, Nature's Variety Instinct, Innova Evo 95% Meat, Precise, etc. If money is an issue, the gluten-free Fancy Feast (http://www.felinediabetes.com/glutenfree.htm) varieties are acceptable (and many cats like them first before warming up to the "healthier" choices above). Try to limit fish-flavours to only a couple times per week as fish tends to be high in phosphorus and contaminants and can be addicting for cats.

As for the amount, for now I would suggest as much as Snoopy wants to eat. Unregulated diabetes means he isn't properly able to use food for energy, causing him to eat more to try to make up the difference. Start with a couple of 5.5oz cans a day and if he wants more, that's okay. Make sure he does eat though! Insulin shots shouldn't typically be given if he's not eating, and if he goes more than a day without food he's at risk of developing ketones. Here is some ketone info for you:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/fdmb-faq.htm#ketones
http://www.gorbzilla.com/hows_and_whys_of_ketones.htm)


I'm not quite sure I completely understand what you mean about not making any diet changes unless I'm home checking Snoopy's BG? Are you saying I should not change his food for awhile?

Yup. The risk of hypoglycemia is too great. It's better not to change too many things at once, so since Snoopy is already starting insulin injections, wait on the food for now, until you have bg testing mastered. If insulin hadn't been started yet, I'd have said go straight to the diet change. Here's (yet another) link for you with more details: http://www.gorbzilla.com/diet_tips.htm

What is a normal BG for cats?

Normal is anywhere between 2.7 and 7.5 mmol/L (or 50-130 in mg/dL, which is the American value). But you're aim for now is to keep Snoopy's bg somewhere between 5.5-16.6 mmol/L. Later on, as you get more familiar with all things diabetes, you can try for tighter regulation.

Snoopy is also staying at the vets because we called back later today and asked them to please check his teeth because his breath has also been foul, foul, foul?

Something else that can cause hyperglycemia (high BG) is infection, another good reason to learn home-testing. If Snoopy has infected gums and/or teeth, when these get resolved, his insulin needs could likewise be lowered. You'll want to be aware of that when it happens.

Thank you again for providing me with so much information! Like I've said before, the nicest, most caring and compassionate people on earth are pet lovers!!

You're most welcome! I remember how scary it was when Aztec was first diagnosed and I'm more than happy to be able to help out if I can.

Shabby
February 5th, 2008, 01:21 AM
I'm so glad you got a diagnosis for Snoopy. That was the most important thing, to find out what was wrong with him. And even though he is diabetic, it's something that is treatable.

Ancientgirl:

Thanks! We're very happy and relieved too. I'm amazed at the wealth of information and the willingness of folks to share on this forum! :thumbs up

Shabby
February 5th, 2008, 01:25 AM
this is also a good site which lists cat food carbs, fat, and protein

http://www.geocities.com/jmpeerson/canfood.html

a lot of good info on this site, which also states maximum carb counts and a bunch of other info for cats with diabetes. Talks alot about how a higher protein low carb diet benefits among other things.

As far as switching many say over a ten day period, start with 3/4 old food and 1/4 new food for 3 days, then go to 1/2 new 1/2 old food for 3-4 days, then 3/4 new 1/4 old food for the last 3-4 days. Watch your cats tummy, poop habits of course all the while, if anything seems to change, diarrhea, vomiting, may want to elongate the procedure even more. If there is anything severe, could be an intolerance to that specific food, and best to go back to the old instead of moving forward with the new, and trying a different brand. best wishes for snoopy :)

loopoo

THANK YOU very much for the weblink. I've bookmarked it and will read it tomorrow considering it's now 1:30a.m!! The info you've given me on the switchover of food is great! THANKS!!:thumbs up:D

Shabby
February 5th, 2008, 01:28 AM
Shabby Glad you got a treatable diagnoses :thumbs up
I have no knowledge about diabetes just want to send you :goodvibes: but Sugarcatmom is an :angel2: & a very valuable wealth of knowledge we're lucky to have her :goodvibes:


growler:

THANKS!! I completely agree that sugarcatmom is an excellent and valuable member of this forum. Her knowledge of feline diabetes is amazing! I'm truly very grateful.

Cheers!

Shabby
February 5th, 2008, 01:34 AM
Only if you are able to home-test Snoopy's blood as you go so that you'll know if it's safe to give him insulin. Going from high carb dry food (which can cause high blood glucose and therefore require more insulin) to a low carb canned food without making a corresponding adjustment to the insulin dose has the potential to cause hypoglycemia, something you absolutely want to avoid. Here is some very important info on treating hypos: http://felinediabetes.com/hypogly.htm And here is a page about home testing: http://felinediabetes.com/bg-test.htm

I would say that until you're comfortable testing Snoopy before every shot, it would be a good idea to keep his food the same.

Try going at whatever pace Snoopy seems able to handle. Has he ever had canned food? Some cats don't even recognize canned as edible right away and may need some convincing. Here are tips for transitioning: http://www.catinfo.org/#Transitioning_Dry_Food_Addicts_to_Canned_Food_

That depends on a combination of what your budget can handle and what Snoopy is willing to chow down on. Some of the higher quality, grain-free (or almost) varieties that I like are Wellness, By Nature Organics, Nature's Variety Instinct, Innova Evo 95% Meat, Precise, etc. If money is an issue, the gluten-free Fancy Feast (http://www.felinediabetes.com/glutenfree.htm) varieties are acceptable (and many cats like them first before warming up to the "healthier" choices above). Try to limit fish-flavours to only a couple times per week as fish tends to be high in phosphorus and contaminants and can be addicting for cats.

As for the amount, for now I would suggest as much as Snoopy wants to eat. Unregulated diabetes means he isn't properly able to use food for energy, causing him to eat more to try to make up the difference. Start with a couple of 5.5oz cans a day and if he wants more, that's okay. Make sure he does eat though! Insulin shots shouldn't typically be given if he's not eating, and if he goes more than a day without food he's at risk of developing ketones. Here is some ketone info for you:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/fdmb-faq.htm#ketones
http://www.gorbzilla.com/hows_and_whys_of_ketones.htm)

Yup. The risk of hypoglycemia is too great. It's better not to change too many things at once, so since Snoopy is already starting insulin injections, wait on the food for now, until you have bg testing mastered. If insulin hadn't been started yet, I'd have said go straight to the diet change. Here's (yet another) link for you with more details: http://www.gorbzilla.com/diet_tips.htm

Normal is anywhere between 2.7 and 7.5 mmol/L (or 50-130 in mg/dL, which is the American value). But you're aim for now is to keep Snoopy's bg somewhere between 5.5-16.6 mmol/L. Later on, as you get more familiar with all things diabetes, you can try for tighter regulation.

Something else that can cause hyperglycemia (high BG) is infection, another good reason to learn home-testing. If Snoopy has infected gums and/or teeth, when these get resolved, his insulin needs could likewise be lowered. You'll want to be aware of that when it happens.

You're most welcome! I remember how scary it was when Aztec was first diagnosed and I'm more than happy to be able to help out if I can.

OH MY GOODNESS!!! Thank you! You are an absolutely amazing wealth of information and I sincerely appreciate your sharing this information with me.

Funny you should mention "Wellness" brand...that's what I feed our 2 German Shepherds. I wasn't aware they also made cat food!

I've bookmarked these sites as well and I'm printing all this info. out to keep in a binder so I'll always have it handy.

Thank you again and I'm sure Snoopy will be very thankful for you making his life a little easier in educating me! You are an angel, truly!:angel2::angel2:

Shabby
February 5th, 2008, 01:41 AM
Just wanted to add: shame on your previous vet for not catching this sooner! He absolutely should have screened for diabetes at some point in Snoopy's 3 previous visits. Any time an older cat loses weight like that and has a ravenous appetite, diabetes should be one of the top 3 things checked for. Grrrrr.

Yes, I totally agree. I called him today but he was unfortunately not there today. I WILL be calling him tomorrow and he won't be feeling too well once I've had a few words with him!!:mad:

krdahmer
February 5th, 2008, 02:45 AM
Aw Shabby thats great, at least you now know what it is and how to manage it.:grouphug: Best of luck with learning the needles and all. (Cats are way more tolerable about that sort of stuff than us... I still can't get used to pricking my fingers, I hate it!:rolleyes:)

I bet Snoopy is gonna be so happy to be home... and hey are there pics of Snoopy and the girls on here yet? I don't recall seeing them... ;)

Love4himies
February 5th, 2008, 07:30 AM
I am so glad you finally got a diagnosis and can't believe your last vet didn't do the basic blood work to find out what was wrong.

I can't offer any advice but Sugarcatmom and Growler are a wealth of info and I would be listening to their advice in a second:thumbs up!

chico2
February 5th, 2008, 07:56 AM
Shabby,I am so pleased Snoop did not have any kind of cancer:cat:
I would not even begin to give you advice on a diabetic cat,even though I had one about 12 yrs ago,not when we have Sugarcat and others,who are very,very knowledgable.:thumbs up
It was a great thing that you joined our Forum,your old vet in his ignorance,could have caused Snoop a lot of trouble.
I remember from my Peppi,that infected teeth can also worsen the diabeties,my Peppi had a couple of bad teeth extracted.

ancientgirl
February 5th, 2008, 08:55 AM
Ancientgirl:

Thanks! We're very happy and relieved too. I'm amazed at the wealth of information and the willingness of folks to share on this forum! :thumbs up

I can tell you this with the most extreme confidence, everyone on this board is fantastic.

If one person can't answer a question, there is always someone else who might have experience in what you are asking, and will gladly help you. And if no one can give you their benefit of experience, there are always several who will look for the answer for you.

You can rest assured everyone on this board loves animals, and anything said or any advice given is always in the best interest of your pet.

In a couple of months I will have been a member of this board for a year, and when I first came here I knew very little about taking care of my new kitty. I got him as a kitten, and I've suffered with allergies and now asthma, and the advice I have been given here to me has been invaluable to me in every aspect of caring for my pets and for my allergies.

You will be VERY happy here and always find a caring bunch to help you no matter what your need is.:grouphug:

Stacer
February 5th, 2008, 10:24 AM
I just read through the entire thread, and boy am I glad you found a diagnosis for Snoopy!

Sugarcatmom's advice is just out of this world! It's great to be able to glean first hand knowledge from someone with experience.

Welcome back to the forum Shabby! Keep us posted on Snoopy.

Shabby
February 5th, 2008, 10:49 AM
Aw Shabby thats great, at least you now know what it is and how to manage it.:grouphug: Best of luck with learning the needles and all. (Cats are way more tolerable about that sort of stuff than us... I still can't get used to pricking my fingers, I hate it!:rolleyes:)

I bet Snoopy is gonna be so happy to be home... and hey are there pics of Snoopy and the girls on here yet? I don't recall seeing them... ;)

I'm used to giving "humans" needles but NOT cats!!! I'm so afraid I'm going to hurt him, he's so painfully thin right now.

I didn't sleep last night as I was worried about him all by himself in the Animal Hospital. He has never been away from us before and I'm sure he's pining. Even our youngest asked: "Mom, will they give Snoopy a blanket? He's used to sleeping with me every night?" :cry:

Shabby
February 5th, 2008, 10:54 AM
I am so glad you finally got a diagnosis and can't believe your last vet didn't do the basic blood work to find out what was wrong.

I can't offer any advice but Sugarcatmom and Growler are a wealth of info and I would be listening to their advice in a second:thumbs up!

Thanks! Yes, we are VERY upset that the old vet didn't find this out during one of Snoop's THREE visits!!! I've already called there this morning but he won't be free to talk to until 1:00 this afternoon. I gave no indication to the receptionist what I wanted to talk to him about as I didn't want him to be pre-warned.

Don't worry, I am definitely listening to Sugarcatmom and Growler and anyone else who is or will provide me with information. I'm so grateful.

Shabby
February 5th, 2008, 10:58 AM
Shabby,I am so pleased Snoop did not have any kind of cancer:cat:
I would not even begin to give you advice on a diabetic cat,even though I had one about 12 yrs ago,not when we have Sugarcat and others,who are very,very knowledgable.:thumbs up
It was a great thing that you joined our Forum,your old vet in his ignorance,could have caused Snoop a lot of trouble.
I remember from my Peppi,that infected teeth can also worsen the diabeties,my Peppi had a couple of bad teeth extracted.

Thank you! I haven't heard from them today about Snoop's teeth, but I hope that area will check out okay.:D

Shabby
February 5th, 2008, 11:10 AM
I can tell you this with the most extreme confidence, everyone on this board is fantastic.

If one person can't answer a question, there is always someone else who might have experience in what you are asking, and will gladly help you. And if no one can give you their benefit of experience, there are always several who will look for the answer for you.

You can rest assured everyone on this board loves animals, and anything said or any advice given is always in the best interest of your pet.

In a couple of months I will have been a member of this board for a year, and when I first came here I knew very little about taking care of my new kitty. I got him as a kitten, and I've suffered with allergies and now asthma, and the advice I have been given here to me has been invaluable to me in every aspect of caring for my pets and for my allergies.

You will be VERY happy here and always find a caring bunch to help you no matter what your need is.:grouphug:

I am so impressed, awed, touched, and absolutely bolled over by the interest, compassion and caring of everyone on this forum. It's just too bad that we all didn't live close to be able to meet once a month, together, in one place to share our pets and ourselves with each other.

Since Snoop is my first cat, I'm feeling terrible that I didn't switch vets sooner. When I was told there was nothing wrong with him other than "old age", I took it at face value. However, now knowing what I know, the guilt and sadness is killing me.

And yes, I AM VERY HAPPY HERE!!!

Shabby
February 5th, 2008, 11:15 AM
I just read through the entire thread, and boy am I glad you found a diagnosis for Snoopy!

Sugarcatmom's advice is just out of this world! It's great to be able to glean first hand knowledge from someone with experience.

Welcome back to the forum Shabby! Keep us posted on Snoopy.

Thank you very much. Yes, Sugarcatmom is definitely knowledgeable and I am extremely grateful for her assistance and everyone else's help too!

I will definitely be keeping everyone informed on how Snoopy makes out.

Shabby
February 6th, 2008, 09:30 PM
Snoopy is home but it just hasn’t been our day.

A lot of you asked me to let you know the results of today’s visit with the new vet. Sugarcat, you had asked that I let you know the type of insulin and how much.

INSULIN: Lantus (Insulin glargine injection) 100 IU

DOSE: 2 units to be given twice a day at 8:00AM and 8:00PM immediately following his meal

FOOD: Hill’s Prescription Diet w/d (canned). We are to give Snoopy 1 to 1 ˝ cans each day, divided into 2 meals to be given 20 minutes before each insulin injection.

They said we’re to continue with the above until Monday when we have to taken Snoopy in again, but can bring him right home again.

I’m NOT happy because:

I had a doctor’s appointment this morning myself for 10:20 which my husband had to stay home from work for to take me. I can’t drive at the moment due to my injury and the medications I take. Also, we live 25 kilometers outside the city where he works, the vet office is and our doctor’s office is. We had told the vets office that our meeting with the vet would have to be later today because of my appointment and hubby having to miss work this morning. He could NOT take the whole day off. That’s why the vet’s office made our appointment for 4:45 today.

We get home from my appointment, hubby leaves immediately again to drive back to the city to work and arrives there at 1:25. The VET’s office called me at home at 1:30 and said we needed to come in “NOW” as the vet wanted to leave early due to the weather. I told them there was no way we could do that because of the reasons above, and that they KNEW that when THEY made the arrangements with my husband on MONDAY for today! They then asked: “Well, isn’t there someone else who can drive you in now? You really need to get here as soon as you possibly can.”

I called my husband at work and he managed to track down our oldest son, who was about 35 kilometers away from home. He drove all the way home to get me, drive me back to the city to the vet’s office and we arrived at 3:00 p.m. The VET HAD ALREADY LEFT!!! So the only person my son and I spoke to was the technician.

She showed us a “shaved” spot on Snoopy’s back, between his shoulder blades that is approximately 2 inches x 2 inches. They said they did that to him to show us how and where to give the injection. Then they gave me a bag with FOUR cans of Hill’s Prescription Diet w/d; about 10 syringes and the bottle of insulin.

I asked: “What about glucose testing? How will I know if I’m giving Snoopy enough insulin or too much if I’m not testing him at home? And why are you giving me this canned food when Snoopy has only eaten DRY food his entire life and not this brand? Why didn’t you feed him what my husband brought in with him on Monday?”

She replied: “Oh, don’t worry about any of that. He’ll be fine until Monday when you bring him in again. We gave him the food because it‘s much better than what you‘ve been feeding him so don‘t change him back when you get home today or his sugar will be off.” I told her that I CAN’T DRIVE right now; my husband has to WORK; and our two boys will be in school on Monday. She told me to tell my husband to drop Snoopy off in the morning at 8:00a.m. again when they open (he’s supposed to be at work at 8:00am) and then pick Snoopy up on his way home at 5:30 and that we’ll have to do that at least 3, 4 or 5 more times over the next two weeks until THEY get his sugar and insulin dose level.

So…I’m very upset…I’m worried and afraid for Snoopy…and I’m a tad put out by this whole experience with this office.

I’d already had a bad day when my doctor told me I had to have an I.V. drug heart test on Feb. 21st that I don’t want to have. Why? I’M TERRIFIED.

So, I think I really need to go to bed. That is, if I can sleep without worrying to death about Snoopy all night.

Good night friends.

sugarcatmom
February 6th, 2008, 11:20 PM
Snoopy is home but it just hasn’t been our day.

Oh no! I'm glad Snoopy is home but I'm sorry to hear about your lousy day. Sounds like the vet clinic was being pretty insensitive.


INSULIN: Lantus (Insulin glargine injection) 100 IU

DOSE: 2 units to be given twice a day at 8:00AM and 8:00PM immediately following his meal

Lantus is a good insulin and I'm glad that the vet is prescribing this instead of another one like Humulin N, which doesn't tend to work as well with cats.

FOOD: Hill’s Prescription Diet w/d (canned). We are to give Snoopy 1 to 1 ˝ cans each day, divided into 2 meals to be given 20 minutes before each insulin injection.

Uh-oh. I was afraid of that. Please don't be alarmed at what I'm going to say, but Hill's W/D shows very old-school thinking by this vet. It is completely inappropriate for any cat, let alone a diabetic one. W/D is high in fibre, with the premise being that a high fibre diet will moderate the absorption of insulin. This may be true for people and dogs, but is so NOT true for cats. They just were not built to handle such a large amount of carbohydrate. 26% of the calories in W/D come from carbohydrates, and cats really shouldn't be eating more than 10%. It was probably excessive carb intake that pushed Snoopy into the realm of diabetes in the first place, and feeding such a crappy high carb food such as this one is only pouring gasoline on the fire. Just check out these ingredients and ask yourself if that sounds like something worth eating:

Water, pork liver, pork by-products, chicken, powdered cellulose, starch, oat fiber, guar gum, locust bean gum, carrageenan, chicken liver flavor, ....

Liver should never be the mean ingredient in a cat food. Cats don't go around ripping the livers out of their prey and leaving the rest. They eat predominantly muscle meat, with the appropriate amount of organs that would be found in the typical mouse or bird (10% or less).

Pork by-products aren't muscle meat either, they're the leftover bits like hooves and snouts and eyeballs. They aren't bad in and of themselves, unless they're in excess, but we don't know where they came from and if diseased or decaying parts were included.

Powdered cellulose is wood pulp. Sawdust. No nutritional value whatsoever. It's absolutely ridiculous that this would be considered something worth feeding to anyone. Then we have starch on top of that! And more fibre! CATS EAT MEAT! That's what they've been eating for milleniums. It's no wonder that diabetes in cats is becoming an epidemic, we're feeding them nothing but Froot Loops and Twinkeze! Seriously, do not feed this food. Take the cans back to the vet next time you're there and get a refund. Instead, go to PetSmart and pick up some cans of gluten-free Fancy Feast: http://www.felinediabetes.com/glutenfree.htm We can work on getting Snoopy to eat one of the better quality foods like Wellness or By Nature Organics later, but for now, we just want to start introducing him to canned, and Fancy Feast tends to be well-liked by many cats. Now I'm not saying to take away all of his dry yet, but eventually that will be the goal. For the time-being, I think just offering him some canned at meal times to see if he goes for it will be a good enough.

They said we’re to continue with the above until Monday when we have to taken Snoopy in again, but can bring him right home again.

If you can get a human glucometer from the pharmacy and test Snoopy yourself, you won't have to make all of these ridiculous vet visits. I urge you to check out some of the info on home-testing: http://tlb.best.vwh.net/bg_punkin/test_bg.html It's going to be the best tool in your arsenal. Diabetes, above all else, is a home managed disease, but many vets don't seem very up-to-date regarding these tools and it's probably rare that they bring up home-testing right away, if at all. Some are even completely against it, for various stupid reasons, but the fact is, you wouldn't give insulin to your child without knowing what their bg number is, why would it be any different for your cat?

You don't need the vet to show you how to do it. If it helps to have some hands-on guidance, the message board here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/list.php?8 has members from all over the world, many even in Ontario that would be happy to come demonstrate. I guarantee you'll get lots of caring responses and some very detailed step-by-step instructions.


She showed us a “shaved” spot on Snoopy’s back, between his shoulder blades that is approximately 2 inches x 2 inches. They said they did that to him to show us how and where to give the injection. Then they gave me a bag with FOUR cans of Hill’s Prescription Diet w/d; about 10 syringes and the bottle of insulin.

Did they at least go over how to recognize hypoglycemia and how to treat it? What about ketones?

I told her that I CAN’T DRIVE right now; my husband has to WORK; and our two boys will be in school on Monday. She told me to tell my husband to drop Snoopy off in the morning at 8:00a.m. again when they open (he’s supposed to be at work at 8:00am) and then pick Snoopy up on his way home at 5:30 and that we’ll have to do that at least 3, 4 or 5 more times over the next two weeks until THEY get his sugar and insulin dose level.

This is silly. There is no need for this, not to mention that regulating a diabetic cat can potentially take months. They can't expect you to keep running Snoopy around like this, it's too stressful for everybody. Not to mention pricey. Sorry to sound like a broken record, but testing him yourself is the best option.

So…I’m very upset…I’m worried and afraid for Snoopy…and I’m a tad put out by this whole experience with this office.

It's rough at first, no doubt about it, but it does get better. If this vet isn't willing to work with you on caring for Snoopy, you might need to shop around some more for another one. You can ask for recommendations on the FDMB.

So, I think I really need to go to bed. That is, if I can sleep without worrying to death about Snoopy all night.

Good night friends.

I'm so sorry to hear that this has turned into a bit of a shmozzle. It's important to remember to breath, and you have to look after yourself in order to be able to look after Snoopy. Get some rest, take it one day at a time. Snoopy will be fine. You might feel more comfortable giving him less insulin until you can test him. If you can get him eating canned food, I'd drop his dose to 1 unit twice a day, but if he'll only eat his dry for now, 2 units is quite likely okay. And just so you know, I didn't learn to test my cat until we were 2 weeks into it, and he turned out just fine. Hang in there girl! :thumbs up

loopoo
February 6th, 2008, 11:26 PM
everything that sugarcat said... right on..

your vet does sound "old school" and i am being polite here, i agree her having you running back and forth is for lack of a better word, suspicious. Once you get used to treating your littlle kittie, and feeling comfortable about that, you may want to look into another vet, and speak with them first to get a feel for their attitude, openness and energy. I agree with the food too, w/d is another old school thought on how to feed these cat, and one i dont and i am sure most dont agree with here.

Get some rest, and when you do have time, browse through sugarcats website links, and the one i posted with the food, protein and carb links.

Snoopy will be fine, and everything will be okay.:)

growler~GateKeeper
February 6th, 2008, 11:44 PM
Shabby :grouphug: sorry your day was horrible

Just check out these ingredients and ask yourself if that sounds like something worth eating:

Water, pork liver, pork by-products, chicken, powdered cellulose, starch, oat fiber, guar gum, locust bean gum, carrageenan, chicken liver flavor, ....

Liver should never be the mean ingredient in a cat food. Cats don't go around ripping the livers out of their prey and leaving the rest. They eat predominantly muscle meat, with the appropriate amount of organs that would be found in the typical mouse or bird (10% or less).

Pork by-products aren't muscle meat either, they're the leftover bits like hooves and snouts and eyeballs. They aren't bad in and of themselves, unless they're in excess, but we don't know where they came from and if diseased or decaying parts were included.

I also wanted to mention pork is never used in cat food. No other canned food I've seen has pork in it. I'm exclusively raw feeding & asked the people @ the store where I buy my raw food about it cuz Duffy loves cooked ham, they no pork it's never used apparently cats don't digest it very well.

pbpatti
February 7th, 2008, 12:13 AM
Shabby, I am so sorry that you are going through this and I will send up a great big HOORAY for all of the members here who will always step up to the plate and help. Hope you have a good sleep. pbp

Shabby
February 7th, 2008, 12:56 AM
Oh no! I'm glad Snoopy is home but I'm sorry to hear about your lousy day. Sounds like the vet clinic was being pretty insensitive.

Lantus is a good insulin and I'm glad that the vet is prescribing this instead of another one like Humulin N, which doesn't tend to work as well with cats.

Uh-oh. I was afraid of that. Please don't be alarmed at what I'm going to say, but Hill's W/D shows very old-school thinking by this vet. It is completely inappropriate for any cat, let alone a diabetic one. W/D is high in fibre, with the premise being that a high fibre diet will moderate the absorption of insulin. This may be true for people and dogs, but is so NOT true for cats. They just were not built to handle such a large amount of carbohydrate. 26% of the calories in W/D come from carbohydrates, and cats really shouldn't be eating more than 10%. It was probably excessive carb intake that pushed Snoopy into the realm of diabetes in the first place, and feeding such a crappy high carb food such as this one is only pouring gasoline on the fire. Just check out these ingredients and ask yourself if that sounds like something worth eating:

Liver should never be the mean ingredient in a cat food. Cats don't go around ripping the livers out of their prey and leaving the rest. They eat predominantly muscle meat, with the appropriate amount of organs that would be found in the typical mouse or bird (10% or less).

Pork by-products aren't muscle meat either, they're the leftover bits like hooves and snouts and eyeballs. They aren't bad in and of themselves, unless they're in excess, but we don't know where they came from and if diseased or decaying parts were included.

Powdered cellulose is wood pulp. Sawdust. No nutritional value whatsoever. It's absolutely ridiculous that this would be considered something worth feeding to anyone. Then we have starch on top of that! And more fibre! CATS EAT MEAT! That's what they've been eating for milleniums. It's no wonder that diabetes in cats is becoming an epidemic, we're feeding them nothing but Froot Loops and Twinkeze! Seriously, do not feed this food. Take the cans back to the vet next time you're there and get a refund. Instead, go to PetSmart and pick up some cans of gluten-free Fancy Feast: http://www.felinediabetes.com/glutenfree.htm We can work on getting Snoopy to eat one of the better quality foods like Wellness or By Nature Organics later, but for now, we just want to start introducing him to canned, and Fancy Feast tends to be well-liked by many cats. Now I'm not saying to take away all of his dry yet, but eventually that will be the goal. For the time-being, I think just offering him some canned at meal times to see if he goes for it will be a good enough.

If you can get a human glucometer from the pharmacy and test Snoopy yourself, you won't have to make all of these ridiculous vet visits. I urge you to check out some of the info on home-testing: http://tlb.best.vwh.net/bg_punkin/test_bg.html It's going to be the best tool in your arsenal. Diabetes, above all else, is a home managed disease, but many vets don't seem very up-to-date regarding these tools and it's probably rare that they bring up home-testing right away, if at all. Some are even completely against it, for various stupid reasons, but the fact is, you wouldn't give insulin to your child without knowing what their bg number is, why would it be any different for your cat?

You don't need the vet to show you how to do it. If it helps to have some hands-on guidance, the message board here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/list.php?8 has members from all over the world, many even in Ontario that would be happy to come demonstrate. I guarantee you'll get lots of caring responses and some very detailed step-by-step instructions.

Did they at least go over how to recognize hypoglycemia and how to treat it? What about ketones?

This is silly. There is no need for this, not to mention that regulating a diabetic cat can potentially take months. They can't expect you to keep running Snoopy around like this, it's too stressful for everybody. Not to mention pricey. Sorry to sound like a broken record, but testing him yourself is the best option.

It's rough at first, no doubt about it, but it does get better. If this vet isn't willing to work with you on caring for Snoopy, you might need to shop around some more for another one. You can ask for recommendations on the FDMB.

I'm so sorry to hear that this has turned into a bit of a shmozzle. It's important to remember to breath, and you have to look after yourself in order to be able to look after Snoopy. Get some rest, take it one day at a time. Snoopy will be fine. You might feel more comfortable giving him less insulin until you can test him. If you can get him eating canned food, I'd drop his dose to 1 unit twice a day, but if he'll only eat his dry for now, 2 units is quite likely okay. And just so you know, I didn't learn to test my cat until we were 2 weeks into it, and he turned out just fine. Hang in there girl! :thumbs up

Sugarcat THANK YOU for the wonderful reply! Why are all you superbly knowledgeable folks out WEST?????:confused: Have you considered moving to Ontario? :fingerscr

Snoopy was eating his regular DRY food right up to the day he went into their facility. We had sent his food from home with him. Instead, they decided to begin feeding him the canned Hill's, which by the way, he chows down like it's his last meal. So I think switching him permanently to a canned food is NOT going to be a problem. I might as well keep him on canned from here on out.

Shabby
February 7th, 2008, 01:26 AM
SUGARCAT…Sorry about that, I’m gonna start again. I wasn’t finished the reply and must have it something. Ugggh! I should have stayed in bed but couldn’t sleep.

Like I said…THEY began Snoopy on the canned food so I’ll just keep going now with it. He wolfs that canned stuff down like it’s his last meal which is great, because as you said, getting him on canned food is the goal in the end anyway. I will get him the fancy feast for now.

You mentioned PetSmart but we don’t have one where we live. The closest one to us is about a 1 ˝ hour drive. I think I mentioned that we feed “Wellness” brand to our 2 German Shepherds and I’ll certainly buy whatever is best for Snoopy too. So should I just get the “Wellness” or the “By Nature Organics” now instead of the Fancy Feast then? How much of these foods should I feed him per day? Which “flavour” should I buy for him in these foods?

Which glucometer would you recommend? I’m willing to purchase whichever is best for Snoopy, I’m not concerned with the cost of it. I read the page you provided on glucometers and they said there are various ones. One of the links did recommend one type over the other because you needed a lesser amount of blood for testing. I’ll have to read through all the pages I printed out again.

Did they go over hypoglycemia, how to recognize it, treat it and mention ketones? Well, the answer to that is not really. The girl handed me a “small” piece of paper that says:

“If your cat receives too much insulin, it’s possible for the blood sugar level to drop dangerously low. For this reason you need to be very careful in ensuring the cat receives the correct dose of insulin. The typical signs displayed by a cat with a very low blood sugar level are: severe weakness and lethargy, shaking, unsteadiness and even convulsions. If a diabetic cat shows any of these signs it is important to seek immediate veterinary attention. If more severe signs are displayed (ataxia or unsteadiness during walking, and/or convulsions) a tablespoon of honey, corn syrup or sugar solution should be given by mouth. The seek medical help immediately and your vet can advise you on specific emergency treatment of low blood sugar in your cat”

That was it and no mention whatsoever about ketones.

I hope I didn’t miss anything. I’m going to try to sleep again and will check in again tomorrow.

THANK YOU!!!

Shabby
February 7th, 2008, 01:29 AM
everything that sugarcat said... right on..

your vet does sound "old school" and i am being polite here, i agree her having you running back and forth is for lack of a better word, suspicious. Once you get used to treating your littlle kittie, and feeling comfortable about that, you may want to look into another vet, and speak with them first to get a feel for their attitude, openness and energy. I agree with the food too, w/d is another old school thought on how to feed these cat, and one i dont and i am sure most dont agree with here.

Get some rest, and when you do have time, browse through sugarcats website links, and the one i posted with the food, protein and carb links.

Snoopy will be fine, and everything will be okay.:)

loopoo...THANK YOU. I will be re-reading the pile of information I printed out the other day from everyone who supplied me with links.

Shabby
February 7th, 2008, 01:31 AM
Shabby :grouphug: sorry your day was horrible

I also wanted to mention pork is never used in cat food. No other canned food I've seen has pork in it. I'm exclusively raw feeding & asked the people @ the store where I buy my raw food about it cuz Duffy loves cooked ham, they no pork it's never used apparently cats don't digest it very well.

Growler...Thank you to you too! I'm indebted to everyone for all their support and advice.

Shabby
February 7th, 2008, 01:33 AM
Shabby, I am so sorry that you are going through this and I will send up a great big HOORAY for all of the members here who will always step up to the plate and help. Hope you have a good sleep. pbp


pbpatti...Another thank you! All of you folks are soooooo caring, knowledgeable, compassionate, understanding and willing to share.

sugarcatmom
February 7th, 2008, 08:11 AM
He wolfs that canned stuff down like it’s his last meal which is great,

Well yay for that! Certainly makes your job easier. :)


You mentioned PetSmart but we don’t have one where we live. The closest one to us is about a 1 ˝ hour drive. I think I mentioned that we feed “Wellness” brand to our 2 German Shepherds and I’ll certainly buy whatever is best for Snoopy too. So should I just get the “Wellness” or the “By Nature Organics” now instead of the Fancy Feast then? How much of these foods should I feed him per day? Which “flavour” should I buy for him in these foods?

Absolutely give some Wellness a try. It has better quality ingredients (no by-products) than Fancy Feast, although both are low-carb and grain free. My guy eats mostly Wellness but I do give him FF for some variety now and then. The best Wellness flavours are the ones that have a little yellow triangle in the corner that say "grain free". Turkey, Turkey & Salmon, Chicken, Beef & Chicken, and I think Chicken & Herring are the ones you want. Feed Snoopy up to 2 of the 5.5 oz cans a day if he wants it. As he becomes more regulated on the insulin, he'll need less food and you can slowly adjust the amount downwards to about 1 can (or 2 of the smaller 3oz cans - that's what Aztec gets now).

Which glucometer would you recommend? I’m willing to purchase whichever is best for Snoopy, I’m not concerned with the cost of it.

Most meters are free if you buy 100 test strips. That's where the main cost comes in, with the test strips. Some are more expensive than others. The One Touch Ultra tends to be popular, but the test strips can be around $80-100 for 100 strips. The Ascensia Elite is $75/100 strips. I'm currently using something called the iTest (http://www.itestglucose.com/interactive_en.php) and I love it. Strips for that one are $69/100. I started with the Elite, which is good but it can give falsely low readings if you don't get enough blood. There's another meter called the Precision Xtra (http://www.abbottdiabetescare.com/content/en_US/20.10.30:30/product/Product_Profile_0004.htm) that also tests for blood ketones, but I've never been able to find the special test strips for it (which are also very $$). Instead, I recommend picking up some Bayer Keto-diastix while you're at the pharmacy. Those test urine for both ketones and glucose.

Gotta run to work but I'll try to give you some more tips during the day. You're doing great! :highfive:

chico2
February 7th, 2008, 08:13 AM
Shabby,a great big:grouphug:for you and Snoopy,hopefully today will be a better day:fingerscr
It seems together with your own health-problem and Snoopys + a rather incensitive vet,you are overwhelmed:sad:
You'll soon get the hang of the insulin-injection and Snoopy will be fine,I know it's scary at first..
I am sooo glad Snoopy really likes his canned food,that's often half the battle,when someone changes from dry food.
I would return all the Hills cans to the vet,for a full refund,once you have found a better food.
I used to think,if a vet says they are selling the best food for my cats,it must be true:yell:

Shabby
February 7th, 2008, 08:47 AM
Well yay for that! Certainly makes your job easier. :)

Absolutely give some Wellness a try. It has better quality ingredients (no by-products) than Fancy Feast, although both are low-carb and grain free. My guy eats mostly Wellness but I do give him FF for some variety now and then. The best Wellness flavours are the ones that have a little yellow triangle in the corner that say "grain free". Turkey, Turkey & Salmon, Chicken, Beef & Chicken, and I think Chicken & Herring are the ones you want. Feed Snoopy up to 2 of the 5.5 oz cans a day if he wants it. As he becomes more regulated on the insulin, he'll need less food and you can slowly adjust the amount downwards to about 1 can (or 2 of the smaller 3oz cans - that's what Aztec gets now).

Most meters are free if you buy 100 test strips. That's where the main cost comes in, with the test strips. Some are more expensive than others. The One Touch Ultra tends to be popular, but the test strips can be around $80-100 for 100 strips. The Ascensia Elite is $75/100 strips. I'm currently using something called the iTest (http://www.itestglucose.com/interactive_en.php) and I love it. Strips for that one are $69/100. I started with the Elite, which is good but it can give falsely low readings if you don't get enough blood. There's another meter called the Precision Xtra (http://www.abbottdiabetescare.com/content/en_US/20.10.30:30/product/Product_Profile_0004.htm) that also tests for blood ketones, but I've never been able to find the special test strips for it (which are also very $$). Instead, I recommend picking up some Bayer Keto-diastix while you're at the pharmacy. Those test urine for both ketones and glucose.

Gotta run to work but I'll try to give you some more tips during the day. You're doing great! :highfive:

Sugarcat, are you sure you're not a veternarian who specializes in diabetic cats? Your knowledge is phenomenal. I'm very grateful to you for both the info. and the time commitment you're giving Snoopy (and me) :D

I will call hubby at work today and ask him to pick up the Wellness on his way home tonight. He also passes a Shopper's Drug Mart in the city so I'll ask him to pick up the glucometer and test strips as well.

I'll be busy reading, reading, reading today! How much I'll retain on the 3 lousy hours of sleep I got last night is questionable.

THANK YOU and have a GREAT day!

Shabby
February 7th, 2008, 08:54 AM
Shabby,a great big:grouphug:for you and Snoopy,hopefully today will be a better day:fingerscr
It seems together with your own health-problem and Snoopys + a rather incensitive vet,you are overwhelmed:sad:
You'll soon get the hang of the insulin-injection and Snoopy will be fine,I know it's scary at first..
I am sooo glad Snoopy really likes his canned food,that's often half the battle,when someone changes from dry food.
I would return all the Hills cans to the vet,for a full refund,once you have found a better food.
I used to think,if a vet says they are selling the best food for my cats,it must be true:yell:


Hey chico2...thanks for the vote of confidence! I need it. The 2 tiny weeny units of insulin is soooo small, like a pin drop!!

Yes, I am feeling quite overwhelmed between poor old Snoop, my own health and the fact my Dad will be gone 1 year on Feb. 19th. Not a good time right now.

I know so much about dogs, their habits, training, nutrition, health issues but feel my knowledge about such things for kitties is zilch! I've never in my life been without a dog(s). I too felt if the vet says it's good for kitty, it must be. I'm disappointed in myself to think I've been so naive.

ancientgirl
February 7th, 2008, 09:07 AM
Goodness, you have had a hard time dealing with these vets. I hope things get better for you.

I'm glad to hear you have Snoopy with you. You are obviously very much committed to your Snoopy, and I know you will do just fine keeping him regulated properly. Right now for you it's just a matter of learning what you can to make sure you know what to look for and what to do. Sugarcatmom gave you some fantastic advice. She's the BOMB!!!

want4rain
February 7th, 2008, 12:11 PM
i think many vets see so many owners come in with pets who dont want to go through all of the work of taking care of them so they come up with the easiest and simplest method of treatment. heck i think some people still ahve their cats upt down for being diabetic or have thyroidism.

SCM, have i ever told you how cool you are?? because you are super cool.

Shabby, you guys will pull through this just fine. :) if you are also interested, there are more than a few members who feed a raw meat/bones/offal only diet. i dont know what kind of relevance that would have to a diabetic cat, im sure SCM does though. :)

-ashley

krdahmer
February 7th, 2008, 12:20 PM
Glad to hear Snoopy is finally home with you:thumbs up... I haven't been on here much as I've been cleaning up a flooded basement and dealing with a 'slummy' out of town landlord.... :rolleyes:

I'm sure you'll get the hang of the insulin in no time. And Snoopy will love Wellness... my Buddy gobbles that stuff up. So sorry you've had such a stressfull week... :grouphug: And that your vet seems so unhelpful... and don't forget to take care of yourself.

sugarcatmom
February 7th, 2008, 01:34 PM
i think many vets see so many owners come in with pets who dont want to go through all of the work of taking care of them so they come up with the easiest and simplest method of treatment. heck i think some people still ahve their cats upt down for being diabetic or have thyroidism.

It's true, and sad, that there are people out there who opt not to treat their cat when it becomes ill, even with something as treatable as diabetes. I totally understand how vets would not want to bombard their clients with too much info in order to lessen that risk. Some of the other reasons that vets often don't go into a lot of detail about diabetes management are because they don't trust the clients to make the right decisions (a tad patronizing), and also because they make more money off of the increased number of vet visits and testing.

SCM, have i ever told you how cool you are?? because you are super cool.

You're making me blush! :o I'm honoured that you would say that, as I happen to think you rock!

if you are also interested, there are more than a few members who feed a raw meat/bones/offal only diet. i dont know what kind of relevance that would have to a diabetic cat, im sure SCM does though. :)

A raw food diet is the ultimate for pretty much any feline, but even more so for ones with compromised health. So Shabby, if you're ever interested in going that route I can point out some good resources. But first things first, let's get you comfortable with treating Snoopy.

Shabby
February 7th, 2008, 04:48 PM
Goodness, you have had a hard time dealing with these vets. I hope things get better for you.

I'm glad to hear you have Snoopy with you. You are obviously very much committed to your Snoopy, and I know you will do just fine keeping him regulated properly. Right now for you it's just a matter of learning what you can to make sure you know what to look for and what to do. Sugarcatmom gave you some fantastic advice. She's the BOMB!!!

It's been a challenge, that's for sure. However, having Snoopy back home is what makes me happy. Learning to control his diabets will increase my happiness infinitely!!

And yes...Sugarcatmom is definitely the "BOMB"!! An invaluable source for sure.

Thanks for your kind words!

Shabby
February 7th, 2008, 04:53 PM
i think many vets see so many owners come in with pets who dont want to go through all of the work of taking care of them so they come up with the easiest and simplest method of treatment. heck i think some people still ahve their cats upt down for being diabetic or have thyroidism.

SCM, have i ever told you how cool you are?? because you are super cool.

Shabby, you guys will pull through this just fine. :) if you are also interested, there are more than a few members who feed a raw meat/bones/offal only diet. i dont know what kind of relevance that would have to a diabetic cat, im sure SCM does though. :)

-ashley

You know Ashley, I believe there is alot of truth in what you've said about vets. Alot of them do take a lacsidasical and simplistic attitude, however I'm sure somewhere out there, are vets who don't take these more 'easy-way-out' attitudes but a more up-to-date, what's best for kitty approach. I'm just having a hard time finding one here. :yell:

Thanks :)

chico2
February 7th, 2008, 04:55 PM
Shabby,love your avatar,love your GSD's,do you have any bigger pics??Or maybe you already posted pics and I missed them.?
Good luck with Snoopy:goodvibes:

Shabby
February 7th, 2008, 04:59 PM
Glad to hear Snoopy is finally home with you:thumbs up... I haven't been on here much as I've been cleaning up a flooded basement and dealing with a 'slummy' out of town landlord.... :rolleyes:

I'm sure you'll get the hang of the insulin in no time. And Snoopy will love Wellness... my Buddy gobbles that stuff up. So sorry you've had such a stressfull week... :grouphug: And that your vet seems so unhelpful... and don't forget to take care of yourself.

I was wondering where you'd disappeared too! :sorry: you're having to deal with a flood! Your landlords absence and as you said "slumminess" certainly isn't help you deal with this. I'm here, we're all here for morale support so just :yell: when you need to vent or need :grouphug:. Well, we'll give ya one anyway :grouphug: :D

I think at this point, with Snoopy's ravenous appetite, he'll eat ANYTHING no matter what brand, soft or dry. lol I don't think he'll have a problem adapting to the Wellness.

By the way, you asked me the other day in the PM if I had a photo of "my girls" and Snoopy on here yet. As of today...YES!!!

Nellie and Shadow are my login name (Shabby) photo. Nellie is on the left and her sister Shadow is the one on the right.

Snoopy's photo can be found on my profile page!!

I'm :fingerscr you're flood will cease!

Shabby
February 7th, 2008, 05:05 PM
Shabby,love your avatar,love your GSD's,do you have any bigger pics??Or maybe you already posted pics and I missed them.?
Good luck with Snoopy:goodvibes:

Thank you!!! And YES, YES, YES I have LOTS of other photos that are much bigger but don't know how or where to post this here?

If you can tell me, I'll post them for everyone to see!

My "four-footers'' make me feel :lovestruck: and I feel honoured to be their Mom. I'm on :cloud9: when I'm with my babies!

Cheers to you! :thumbs up

phoozles
February 7th, 2008, 05:09 PM
You can stick them in the pet photography thread - I saw the little ones of the girls and Mr. Snoopy - adorable! :lovestruck:

There are tips in the photo thread as well re: resizing the pictures if you need to.

I can't wait to see more, and it looks like you're going to get Snoopy's diabetes under control - he'll be with you for years to come! :thumbs up

Shabby
February 7th, 2008, 05:28 PM
You can stick them in the pet photography thread - I saw the little ones of the girls and Mr. Snoopy - adorable! :lovestruck:

There are tips in the photo thread as well re: resizing the pictures if you need to.

I can't wait to see more, and it looks like you're going to get Snoopy's diabetes under control - he'll be with you for years to come! :thumbs up

THANK YOU for your help! I'll will go and post some photos right now! However, I'm on "dial-up" out here in the countryside and am currently using my laptop. I'll log off here, then go to the desk computer where all my photos are stored, sign back on and post the photos.

Be back soon!

:cat::dog:

Shabby
February 7th, 2008, 09:24 PM
Sugarcatmom or anyone else who'll know the answer to this question

Sugar, as you know we're getting Wellness canned for Snoopy. Hubby wasn't sure which ones to get tonight so he'll get them tomorrow night. I still have 2 cans of that awful Hill's left that he can eat tomorrow.

Question:

You gave me the list of the Wellness "meat" flavours. Do I pick only ONE flavour and feed Snoopy only that, or can we buy a variety of the different meats and feed him something different each day for a change?

I printed out the entire "Canned Cat Food Nutritional Information" pages provided in the one of the links given to me.

Under the Wellness canned the flavours are:

Beef and Chicken - carbs are 4/protein 31/fat 65/fibre 0.2/phos 226
Chicken and Herring - carbs are 6/prot 34/fat 60/fibre 0.2/phos 303
Chicken and Lobster -carbs are 11/prot29/fat 61/fibre 0.2/phos 264
Salmon and Trout - carbs are 8/prot 27/fat 65/fibre 0.2/phos 248
Sardines, Shrimp & Crab - carb 16/prot 34/fat 50/fibre 0.2/phos 293
Turkey - carbs 4/prot 31/fat 65/fibre 0.2/phos 200
Turkey and Salmon - carbs 5/prot 37/fat 58/fibre 0.2/phos 299

The Sardine/Shrimp/Crab seems to have the most carbs.

Thanks once AGAIN for the help.

want4rain
February 7th, 2008, 09:32 PM
under normal circumstances you would want to feed as much of a variety as your cat will tolerate to prevent allergies by challenging their immune system. :) i would think that would still apply to your situation. while the carbs in each of these are different, they are still considerably lower than cat food with grains in it.

-ash

growler~GateKeeper
February 7th, 2008, 09:35 PM
Shabby you can feed a variety of flavours, figure out which Snoopy likes & rotate through those varieties :thumbs up

Shabby
February 7th, 2008, 09:39 PM
Shabby you can feed a variety of flavours, figure out which Snoopy likes & rotate through those varieties :thumbs up

In others words, we can get 2 of each of the flavours I listed so he can try them all, and then just continue to buy the ones he really likes?

So I could feed him the turkey on Monday, Salmon on Tuesday, Beef on Wednesday etc., OR should I stick with just turkey for 2-3 days at a time and then give him something different?

Shabby
February 7th, 2008, 09:41 PM
under normal circumstances you would want to feed as much of a variety as your cat will tolerate to prevent allergies by challenging their immune system. :) i would think that would still apply to your situation. while the carbs in each of these are different, they are still considerably lower than cat food with grains in it.

-ash

Okay. So should I stick with one flavour then for a few weeks then? Growler says it doesn't matter?

I'm feeling pulled in two directions. lol

growler~GateKeeper
February 7th, 2008, 09:55 PM
In others words, we can get 2 of each of the flavours I listed so he can try them all, and then just continue to buy the ones he really likes?

So I could feed him the turkey on Monday, Salmon on Tuesday, Beef on Wednesday etc., OR should I stick with just turkey for 2-3 days at a time and then give him something different?

You could do it either way, I wouldn't feed the same flavour more than 2 days in a row, he may get tired of it & not want to eat - 2 days same flavour is fine.

When you find the flavours he likes you can buy the bigger cans & portion freeze a day or two worth, it tends to be a bit cheaper that way

Frenchy
February 7th, 2008, 09:55 PM
I'm feeling pulled in two directions. lol

:laughing: oh gosh I know that feeling :laughing:

I just read most of your thread and just wanted to say how I'm sorry for everything you're going through. :sad:

Speedy recovery to Snoopy and to you too :goodvibes: :grouphug:

krdahmer
February 7th, 2008, 10:46 PM
Thanks... I really needed a hug today... :D

And thanks also for sharing those pics with us... Snoopy and the girls are gorgeous!! :lovestruck:

sugarcatmom
February 8th, 2008, 12:15 AM
For sure if Snoopy does fine with a wide variety of flavours, that would be the way to go. I made the mistake of buying a case of one flavour right at the beginning of our switch and after a couple of meals of the same thing, Aztec decided it wasn't as great as he first thought. I've since been trained to feed him a different flavour for each meal. Go by whatever Snoopy tolerates, he'll let you know.

Shabby
February 8th, 2008, 08:19 AM
For sure if Snoopy does fine with a wide variety of flavours, that would be the way to go. I made the mistake of buying a case of one flavour right at the beginning of our switch and after a couple of meals of the same thing, Aztec decided it wasn't as great as he first thought. I've since been trained to feed him a different flavour for each meal. Go by whatever Snoopy tolerates, he'll let you know.


Thanks. I feel better now that I sent hubby to work this morning with a list of the 7 flavours and have requested he bring home 2 cans of each. I even added a note at the bottom of his list to look for the ones with the little yellow triangle that say 'Grain free'. And...just to be a jokster, I even coloured the triangle in yellow for him! :D

So, I will begin giving Snoopy (1) 5.5oz can twice a day. I'm interested to see which flavours will be his favourits.

Aztec is one smart kitty, didn't take him long to train his Mom! Way to go Aztec!!! :cat: :thumbs up

krdahmer
February 8th, 2008, 11:33 AM
Oh you're too cute! I send my hubby with a list that has pictures too.... lol. I find them on the internet and then put them beside each item on the list so he comes back with the right stuff!:rolleyes::laughing:

chico2
February 8th, 2008, 04:56 PM
That's sooo funny,I do that too when hubby goes grocerie shopping,not from the internet,but I describe in detail what most items look like:laughing:

Shabby
February 8th, 2008, 06:14 PM
Oh you're too cute! I send my hubby with a list that has pictures too.... lol. I find them on the internet and then put them beside each item on the list so he comes back with the right stuff!:rolleyes::laughing:


Well, when I became permanently injured 4 years ago, hubby and I had been married 25 years at the time and he had NEVER, EVER done the grocery shopping up to that time. I have not been able to grocery shop since so it was a rude awakening for him. lol The first few times I gave him the list, he came home with something like 50% of items we had NEVER used before. I wrote. For example: I'd write lettuce and he bring home romaine lettuce instead of iceberg. :wall: Our boys won't eat romaine so we've never, ever bought it. I asked him: "Why in the world would you bring THIS lettuce?" He responded" "You had lettuce on YOUR list!" "Yeah, I say ICEBURG lettuce, when have we ever eaten or bought ROMAINE??""! HAHAHAHAH:rolleyes:

So, I've since gotten in the habit of writing brand name, sizes in both ml's and oz's, colours of packaging etc. Over the past 4 years, his shopping has definitelly improved but still brings home ODD items. I just shake my head, some men are just NOT cut out for grocery shopping. Even our boys will say: "Dad, why did you buy this? We never eat that!" and they too shake their heads. lol

Poor hubby, I'm picking on him and he's not home yet to defend himself :sorry: because he's out cat food shopping!!! :thumbs up

Shabby
February 8th, 2008, 06:20 PM
That's sooo funny,I do that too when hubby goes grocerie shopping,not from the internet,but I describe in detail what most items look like:laughing:

:laughing: that is so funny! Read the reply I wrote to krdahmer. I think you and I should steal her GREAT idea of finding the items on the internet and putting them on the shopping list.

Isn't she a smarty pants!! :thumbs up:clown:

I'm sure my husband will be delighted to hear he's not the only :frustrated: and :confused: grocery shopper! :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Shabby
February 8th, 2008, 06:40 PM
Dear Human Friends:

My Mom is starving me to death!!!! Every single time, no matter where I am in the house, I literally FLY when I hear anyone in my family stepping foot in the kitchen!

I run around their feet, meow and YOWL really loud because I'm hungry and want food!!!!! They either don't see me, hear me, trip over me, :rolleyes: or they're just plain ignoring me which is RUDE :mad: but that's humans for ya.

My Mom is ONLY feeding me one lousy little can of food at 8 o'clock every morning, then sticks me with a needle. Then gives me another can of food at 8 o'clock every night and sticks me again! What does she think I'm living on between 8AM and 8PM??? Air??? I'm a :cat: I know but we get :frustrated: and :confused: too.

So, can SOMEONE please do :cat:(me) a favour and tell my Mom if she can feed me anything else inbetween? Like more food?:D A snack of some kind?:D Anything?:D Or is that going to screw up my insulin? :sad:

I'm beginning to think you humans are :loser: You eat when YOU want, why can't I????

Meow,
Snoopy :cat:

sugarcatmom
February 8th, 2008, 07:28 PM
OMG, Snoopy, you poor starving thing you. It sucks not having opposable thumbs, doesn't it? Tell you what, I'll let your momma know that it's okay if you have some snacks. They have to be healthy snacks though, no Pounce treats or the like. Maybe a tablespoon or 2 of some more canned food to tide you over until din-din? Some plain chicken (raw or lightly boiled/broiled) would also be pretty tasty, I bet. Since the insulin you're on tends to be fairly "flat" (as in it doesn't typically give a steep drop in bg like some of the other insulins) as well as long-lasting, it's not as critical that food only be given at shot-time. Your vet may not completely agree, but sheesh, he's not the one starving to death! Tell him to try going from 8am to 8pm without any snacks!!

Shabby
February 8th, 2008, 09:09 PM
OMG, Snoopy, you poor starving thing you. It sucks not having opposable thumbs, doesn't it? Tell you what, I'll let your momma know that it's okay if you have some snacks. They have to be healthy snacks though, no Pounce treats or the like. Maybe a tablespoon or 2 of some more canned food to tide you over until din-din? Some plain chicken (raw or lightly boiled/broiled) would also be pretty tasty, I bet. Since the insulin you're on tends to be fairly "flat" (as in it doesn't typically give a steep drop in bg like some of the other insulins) as well as long-lasting, it's not as critical that food only be given at shot-time. Your vet may not completely agree, but sheesh, he's not the one starving to death! Tell him to try going from 8am to 8pm without any snacks!!

I'm completely :lovestruck: now Sugarcatmom! Um, are you SugarcatMom because you feed my cousin Aztec SWEETS? Can I spend the weekend?

Took me forever to get my Mom's attention to get over here to her laptop, I can only keep 'clicking' the pad so many times to keep the page on the screen! Sheesh.....

She's finally read your message and says she WILL give me a couple teaspoons of food during the day between feeds and if she has some baked chicken leftover in the fridge, she'll give me some of that too! :D

THANK YOU, THANK YOU for getting through to my Mother!

By the way, my Dad came home with 14 cans of food for me tonight. Wellness Brand, Grain Free and 7 different flavours AND TWO, did ya hear me, TWO cans of each to try. I know I'm gonna like 'em all. I had the chicken flavour for dinner tonight and ate every last morsel. I think I even licked the smell from the dish too! In the morning I'm getting Shrimp, I pawed it out to Mom so she'll know! I may not have opposable thumbs, but do well with my :pawprint:

Oh, my Mom says "hi".

Thanks sugarcatmom...I really do LOVE YOU! :o And I heard my Mom telling my Dad that she thinks your awesome! :thumbs up Oh, and...DAD is even reading all the papers she printed out from all the weblinks you and the other humans can her. Dad says: "Are you kidding me! This information is FANTASTIC and I feel a whole lot better about Snoop now!" :laughing: They think I don't understand human language!

Meow,
Snoopy :cat::pawprint:

P.S. I think my two sisters :dog::dog: are getting jealous of all the attention I'm getting.

Shabby
February 9th, 2008, 01:41 PM
Hi Friends:

Just wanted to let you all know I've just posted 5 photos of "my girls" and Snoopy. Two separate postings in the pet photograpy section...the 1st has 3photos and the 2nd 2 photos!

Enjoy! :D

chico2
February 9th, 2008, 04:35 PM
Oh,Oh got to run over there:laughing:

Shabby
February 9th, 2008, 05:23 PM
Oh,Oh got to run over there:laughing:

Did ya get there? :laughing:

chico2
February 10th, 2008, 08:14 AM
Yeah,had to take the car though,my"running" days are over:laughing:
Beautiful GSD's and Snoopy,adorable!

Shabby
February 10th, 2008, 02:22 PM
Yeah,had to take the car though,my"running" days are over:laughing:
Beautiful GSD's and Snoopy,adorable!

:laughing::laughing::laughing: Glad ya made it!

Thanks for the endearing comments on all my fur babes. :D

Shabby
February 12th, 2008, 10:22 AM
Snoopy was at the vet's yesterday for a check. Initially, as you know, we were giving him 2 units of insulin twice a day. The vet has now asked us to raise it to 3 units a day. And...he has gained 1/2 pound in a week!!!! The vet was very excited about that.

By the way, when we bought the 7 different flavours of the 'Wellness' grain free food for him, we thought there might be one he wouldn't like. However, that has turned out to be a non-issue. Snoopy devours ALL the flavours!:D

Cheers to you all! :cat:

Jim Hall
February 12th, 2008, 11:39 AM
thats great news thanks

sugarcatmom
February 12th, 2008, 11:39 AM
Snoopy was at the vet's yesterday for a check. Initially, as you know, we were giving him 2 units of insulin twice a day. The vet has now asked us to raise it to 3 units a day. And...he has gained 1/2 pound in a week!!!! The vet was very excited about that.

By the way, when we bought the 7 different flavours of the 'Wellness' grain free food for him, we thought there might be one he wouldn't like. However, that has turned out to be a non-issue. Snoopy devours ALL the flavours!:D

Cheers to you all! :cat:

Yay for the weight gain!! That's a very good sign. I'm a little concerned about raising the dose that much though. Even a half unit can make a big difference when your dealing with such small amounts of insulin to begin with. Do you know what kind of bg numbers the vet is getting? Do you have any half-unit syringes so that you could give 2.5u instead? Not to override your vet's input, but it does seem to be a common theme with them to raise doses too fast. If you can still manage to pick up a glucometer and do some testing yourself, I wouldn't be so worried. But for instance, my cat, at a wopping 15lbs, is wonderfully regulated on just 1.5u of insulin twice a day. If I'd started him at 2u, I would have already missed the mark.

krdahmer
February 12th, 2008, 01:51 PM
http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/party/party0011.gif (http://www.jonahgoldberg.net) Way to go Snoopy! :grouphug:

ancientgirl
February 12th, 2008, 03:48 PM
I'm so glad to hear he's gained some weight! And that he loves the flavors!

Way to go Snoopy!:highfive:

chico2
February 12th, 2008, 05:24 PM
That's just great Snoopy,you go boy and gain some more weight...you don't know it,but those nasty needles will make you feel like a kitten again:laughing:
Also tell mom to boil a chicken-breast,my boys love it more for treats,than anything else:thumbs up

rainbow
February 12th, 2008, 07:29 PM
Good boy, Snoopy, making your mom so happy. :highfive: Glad to hear he gained some weight and likes the Wellness food. :thumbs up

I hope you get his insulin dosage sorted out. :fingerscr :goodvibes: :goodvibes:

Shabby
February 12th, 2008, 08:40 PM
thats great news thanks


Thank YOU! And...it is definitely good news!!!:D:D :thumbs up

Shabby
February 12th, 2008, 08:54 PM
Yay for the weight gain!! That's a very good sign. I'm a little concerned about raising the dose that much though. Even a half unit can make a big difference when your dealing with such small amounts of insulin to begin with. Do you know what kind of bg numbers the vet is getting? Do you have any half-unit syringes so that you could give 2.5u instead? Not to override your vet's input, but it does seem to be a common theme with them to raise doses too fast. If you can still manage to pick up a glucometer and do some testing yourself, I wouldn't be so worried. But for instance, my cat, at a wopping 15lbs, is wonderfully regulated on just 1.5u of insulin twice a day. If I'd started him at 2u, I would have already missed the mark.


The weight gain is a GOOD sign! Hubby said the vet told him Snoopy's BG was 14 point something. I will call the vet myself tomorrow and ask "specifically" and let you know. I was going to call myself today but he's not in on Tuesday's and I didn't want to speak to the other vet there who has NOT dealt with Snoopy.

The syringes I have do NOT have half-units...I was actually phoning around this afternoon inquiring at various pharmacies if they carried them. I'm housebound so cannot go to pick up a glucometer myself. I have to wait for hubby who has been swamped at work. He said he'll get one on Sunday (his only day off...he works 6 days a week). I could still give Snoop the 2.5 using the syringes I have for now. He's already had his insulin for tonight anyway but I won't try doing that until I hear back from you whether that is a good idea or not to guess at 2.5?

How are your babies doing? And...thank you AGAIN for sharing your knowledge with me and for being concerned enough to care!!! You are one in a million. :grouphug:

Shabby
February 12th, 2008, 09:00 PM
http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/party/party0011.gif (http://www.jonahgoldberg.net) Way to go Snoopy! :grouphug:


:cat: It's me Snoopy!!!!! T H A N K Y O U ! ! ! I'm vey proud of myself. :thumbs up

Shabby
February 12th, 2008, 09:08 PM
I'm so glad to hear he's gained some weight! And that he loves the flavors!

Way to go Snoopy!:highfive:

:laugh: I'm excited too! The food...oh my, you should see him chow down on that stuff...he's inhales it faster than the vacuum cleaner could suck it out of the bowl!! :laughing:

Shabby
February 12th, 2008, 09:24 PM
That's just great Snoopy,you go boy and gain some more weight...you don't know it,but those nasty needles will make you feel like a kitten again:laughing:
Also tell mom to boil a chicken-breast,my boys love it more for treats,than anything else:thumbs up

Ohhh Chico...hang on a sec, I'm calling my Mom over to see THIS message!!!! Plug your ears, I gotta yell to her: "M-e-e-e-o-o-owww, Mom".

"Snoopy, Snoopy what's wrong?"

"Look, look, look, chico says I'm gonna be a kitten again! And..."Look Mom, she said you HAVE TO bake me some chicken-breast for a treat!" Oiyva, this is MY day!! Here's my signature :pawprint: for the sign up sheet for REAL chicken breast. :thankyou: for the inside info. Ahhhh, I can go to bed truly happy tonight! :cat::cat:

Night :sleepy: :sleepy: chicken breast chicken breast chicen "SNOOPY! GO TO SLEEP WIL YA?"

Shabby
February 12th, 2008, 09:33 PM
:rolleyes:Good boy, Snoopy, making your mom so happy. :highfive: Glad to hear he gained some weight and likes the Wellness food. :thumbs up

I hope you get his insulin dosage sorted out. :fingerscr :goodvibes: :goodvibes:

Thank you, I am trying really hard to be a good boy and like to my Mom happy because she is so good to me. That Wellness food is 'yummy', just wish she'd give it to more more than twice day. By 8:00 a night, I'm rolling on the kitchen floor with hunger pains!!!!;) ;) (Psssst...is she falling for it yet?) :cat::cat:

want4rain
February 12th, 2008, 10:30 PM
Shabby, you are so funny!! im so glad this stuff is working out for you guys!! i had a cat who threw up wellness for weeks!!

you guys thing eggs would also be ok as a snack??

-ash

Shabby
February 12th, 2008, 11:35 PM
Shabby, you are so funny!! im so glad this stuff is working out for you guys!! i had a cat who threw up wellness for weeks!!

you guys thing eggs would also be ok as a snack??

-ash

Well, in this world we all need a little humour!! :laughing:

Hmmm...finicky cat! Snoopy with his ravenous appetite, I think he'd eat 'you know what on a stick' and I don't mean a fudgicle! :laughing: He was the type who was very specific as to what he would eat prior to his Diabetes.

Eggs...well they're good for protein but I'm not well enough versed on cats to give you advice. You're best bet would be to ask someone like sugarcatmom. I don't think there is anything she doesn't know!!

growler~GateKeeper
February 13th, 2008, 01:29 AM
Good job Shabby & Snoopy :thumbs up, I'm very glad Snoopy loves the Wellness :highfive: Great news on the weight gain too :thumbs up


you guys thing eggs would also be ok as a snack??

-ash

Eggs...well they're good for protein but I'm not well enough versed on cats to give you advice. You're best bet would be to ask someone like sugarcatmom. I don't think there is anything she doesn't know!!

I'm pretty sure Ashley meant as a snack for Snoopy ;)

Shabby
February 13th, 2008, 07:38 AM
Good job Shabby & Snoopy :thumbs up, I'm very glad Snoopy loves the Wellness :highfive: Great news on the weight gain too :thumbs up






I'm pretty sure Ashley meant as a snack for Snoopy ;)

Re: the eggs for a snack? Just let me slap myself in the head, I was a little slow catching onto that one. :headslap: Ahhh, that feels much better!:D

However, I still don't know the answer...if Snoopy could eat eggs for a snack and..I'm assuming they would be hard-boiled?

chico2
February 13th, 2008, 07:59 AM
:laughing::laughing:you are funny Shabby:laughing:
You could try a hardboiled egg,but I think most people here give a raw egg-yolk,my cats won't go near it though,I've tried:cat:

Shabby
February 13th, 2008, 08:08 AM
:laughing::laughing:you are funny Shabby:laughing:
You could try a hardboiled egg,but I think most people here give a raw egg-yolk,my cats won't go near it though,I've tried:cat:


Eeeeewwwww! Raw...spell it backwards and that's how I'd feel within myself giving THAT to Snoopy Raw? :eeew: Raw!!?? :cry::yuck:

sugarcatmom
February 13th, 2008, 08:19 AM
Hubby said the vet told him Snoopy's BG was 14 point something.

Do you know how long after Snoopy's insulin shot this was? I'm very suspicious of vets who raise an insulin dose based on one bg number. It should only be done after a full "curve" (bg checked every couple of hours for 12 hours).

The syringes I have do NOT have half-units...I was actually phoning around this afternoon inquiring at various pharmacies if they carried them. I'm housebound so cannot go to pick up a glucometer myself. I have to wait for hubby who has been swamped at work. He said he'll get one on Sunday (his only day off...he works 6 days a week). I could still give Snoop the 2.5 using the syringes I have for now. He's already had his insulin for tonight anyway but I won't try doing that until I hear back from you whether that is a good idea or not to guess at 2.5?

You could eyeball it, depending on how good your eyesight is! Or you could keep it at 2 units until your hubby gets that glucometer. I'm just so leary about raising the dose that much at once, especially now that Snoopy is on a better food.

How are your babies doing? And...thank you AGAIN for sharing your knowledge with me and for being concerned enough to care!!! You are one in a million. :grouphug:

Thanks for asking! Aztec just had a check-up a few days ago and his blood work came back "fabulous" (vet's words). :D

hazelrunpack
February 13th, 2008, 02:57 PM
Sheesh, Shabby! :grouphug: I just read this thread through for the first time! What an ordeal! :eek: I'm so glad that Snoopy got a useful diagnosis and that things are looking up! :thumbs up

hazel has to start popping into kitty threads more often :o

Shabby
February 13th, 2008, 06:52 PM
Hi Friends:

Sugarcatmom, sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you. I didn't call the vet until about 5:30 as we were busy all day. :offtopic: Sadly, a friend of ours, son was killed in a head-on crash yesterday afternoon. He was driving, was killed instantly but his girlfriend is in hospital in Toronto with life-threatening injuires. They were young...23...I hope she survives as she has a small child. Our sons were very upset today. :sorry: to be :offtopic:

The vet gave me the following times and BG numbers:

Pre-Insulin at 9:00 a.m. - 14.95
2:00 p.m. - 9.84
4:00 p.m. - 11.39
6:00 p.m. - 13.94

These were done on Monday (Feb. 11).

Thanks

sugarcatmom
February 13th, 2008, 08:46 PM
Hi Friends:

Sugarcatmom, sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you. I didn't call the vet until about 5:30 as we were busy all day. :offtopic: Sadly, a friend of ours, son was killed in a head-on crash yesterday afternoon. He was driving, was killed instantly but his girlfriend is in hospital in Toronto with life-threatening injuires. They were young...23...I hope she survives as she has a small child. Our sons were very upset today. :sorry: to be :offtopic:

OMG, what a tragedy! I'm so sorry.

The vet gave me the following times and BG numbers:

Pre-Insulin at 9:00 a.m. - 14.95
2:00 p.m. - 9.84
4:00 p.m. - 11.39
6:00 p.m. - 13.94

These were done on Monday (Feb. 11).

Thanks

Thanks for the info. These numbers were still at the 2u dose, right? They actually aren't bad at all, especially for so early on in Snoopy's diagnosis (Aztec had numbers in the 20s and 30s for quite a while). Which is why I really have to question the rationale behind raising the dose so much. If it were up to me, I'd actually keep him at 2u for another week, do a curve (at home - without vet stress), and go from there. Raising the dose too much too fast can cause something called Somogyi Rebound, where the cat's liver responds to low or fast bg drops by dumping glucose into the blood stream (very simplified explanation). Then you end up with high bg and it looks like the cat needs more insulin, when it actually needs less. There's a good article about the "Start Low - Go Slow" process most people use when finding the appropriate insulin dose for their cat: http://www.geocities.com/jmpeerson/SLGS.html

Oh - gotta run, I'll check back with you later.

hazelrunpack
February 13th, 2008, 09:39 PM
Sadly, a friend of ours, son was killed in a head-on crash yesterday afternoon. He was driving, was killed instantly but his girlfriend is in hospital in Toronto with life-threatening injuires. They were young...23...I hope she survives as she has a small child. Our sons were very upset today. :sorry: to be :offtopic:


I'm so sorry, Shabby! :pray: :grouphug:

loopoo
February 13th, 2008, 11:19 PM
oh my goodness, i am so very sorry:grouphug: prayers are with you all and their families:sad:

rainbow
February 14th, 2008, 03:02 AM
Sadly, a friend of ours, son was killed in a head-on crash yesterday afternoon. He was driving, was killed instantly but his girlfriend is in hospital in Toronto with life-threatening injuires. They were young...23...I hope she survives as she has a small child. Our sons were very upset today. :sorry: to be :offtopic:


Shabby, I am so sorry to hear about your friends son. :sad: My heartfelt condolences to you and your friends and family. :grouphug: :candle:

Shabby
February 14th, 2008, 05:02 AM
OMG, what a tragedy! I'm so sorry.



Thanks for the info. These numbers were still at the 2u dose, right? They actually aren't bad at all, especially for so early on in Snoopy's diagnosis (Aztec had numbers in the 20s and 30s for quite a while). Which is why I really have to question the rationale behind raising the dose so much. If it were up to me, I'd actually keep him at 2u for another week, do a curve (at home - without vet stress), and go from there. Raising the dose too much too fast can cause something called Somogyi Rebound, where the cat's liver responds to low or fast bg drops by dumping glucose into the blood stream (very simplified explanation). Then you end up with high bg and it looks like the cat needs more insulin, when it actually needs less. There's a good article about the "Start Low - Go Slow" process most people use when finding the appropriate insulin dose for their cat: http://www.geocities.com/jmpeerson/SLGS.html

Oh - gotta run, I'll check back with you later.

---------------------------------------------------
Yes, these numbers were still at the 2u dose. I'll keep him at the 2u until I get a monitor this weekend. He is also going back to see the vet in two weeks on Feb. 25th. Thanks for the links on Rebound. Here are two more I found, don't know if you've seen these ones or not.

http://www.gorbzilla.com/somogyi_rebound_minifaq.htm

http://sugarcats.blogspot.com/2006/03/somogyi-rebound-in-feline-diabetes.html

And yes, the accident was a terrible, terrible tragedy. Any parents worst nightmare. Thank you.

Shabby
February 14th, 2008, 05:04 AM
I'm so sorry, Shabby! :pray: :grouphug:


Thank you. A very sad event indeed, :cry:

Shabby
February 14th, 2008, 05:05 AM
oh my goodness, i am so very sorry:grouphug: prayers are with you all and their families:sad:


Thank you very much. Sad day for sure :cry:

Shabby
February 14th, 2008, 05:08 AM
Shabby, I am so sorry to hear about your friends son. :sad: My heartfelt condolences to you and your friends and family. :grouphug: :candle:


Thank you so much. :cry: We're all sad here.

krdahmer
February 14th, 2008, 10:30 AM
Oh that's terrible Shabby... I'm so sorry for your friend's sudden loss. :rip::pray: :grouphug:

Shabby
February 14th, 2008, 07:20 PM
Oh that's terrible Shabby... I'm so sorry for your friend's sudden loss. :rip::pray: :grouphug:


Thank you very, very much.

chico2
February 15th, 2008, 06:46 AM
Shabby,that goes for me too,condoleances to the family.
I hope the young girl will make it:pray:

Shabby
February 15th, 2008, 12:15 PM
Shabby,that goes for me too,condoleances to the family.
I hope the young girl will make it:pray:

Thank you Chico. We found out yesterday that the passenger in the other truck passed away yesterday morning. Out of the 4 people involved, 2 are now dead and 2 remain on life support. :rip:

krdahmer
February 15th, 2008, 12:39 PM
:sad::rip::candle:

want4rain
February 15th, 2008, 01:01 PM
:sad: i hope there is someone at the Bridge to greet them with wet kisses.

-ash

Shabby
February 15th, 2008, 07:44 PM
:sad::rip::candle:


Thank you.

Shabby
February 15th, 2008, 07:47 PM
:sad: i hope there is someone at the Bridge to greet them with wet kisses.

-ash

Thank you. Today we attended our friend's sons funeral, a terrible day for all concerned. The hardest part, seeing a young, young, young 23 year old laying in a coffin. He died on his Mom's birthday.

Shabby
February 19th, 2008, 03:13 PM
Where has everyone gone?

Snoopy appears to be doing well, thankfully. His eyes look better, his fur looks better and he seems to be a little more active. Yaaaay!

ancientgirl
February 19th, 2008, 03:43 PM
That's great. Looks like his treatment's are going well. :thumbs up

chico2
February 19th, 2008, 04:39 PM
Shabby we are all here at different times,after all duty calls :laughing:
I am glad Snoopy is doing better:thumbs up
I too was at a funeral once for a 17yr old friend of one of my sons,it is so very sad to see a young persons life cut short:sad:

krdahmer
February 20th, 2008, 10:34 AM
I'm still here.... glad to hear Snoopy is still doing well. I am busy cleaning up yet another flood and bugging my landlord to do something about it! http://bestsmileys.com/cleaning/3.gifhttp://bestsmileys.com/cleaning/4.gifhttp://bestsmileys.com/argue/2.gif

(I did take a bunch of new pics of my guys... even got a group shot, so I'll try and get around to posting them later in the pic forum!) ;)

Shabby
February 20th, 2008, 05:40 PM
That's great. Looks like his treatment's are going well. :thumbs up

Yes! Very, very thankfully. Yay Snoopy!!!!:thumbs up :lovestruck:

Shabby
February 20th, 2008, 05:44 PM
Shabby we are all here at different times,after all duty calls :laughing:
I am glad Snoopy is doing better:thumbs up
I too was at a funeral once for a 17yr old friend of one of my sons,it is so very sad to see a young persons life cut short:sad:

I can't even begin to express how happy and relieved we are that Snoopy seems to be responding so well. I watch him constantly, much to the chagrin of the girls. I don't think they like the 'extra' attention old Snoop is getting. lol

Funerals are always unpleasant but much more so when the person is young. We've since found out that his girlfriend, who remains in hospital is also pregnant with his child. We haven't heard if the pregnancy is still viable or not.

Shabby
February 20th, 2008, 05:48 PM
I'm still here.... glad to hear Snoopy is still doing well. I am busy cleaning up yet another flood and bugging my landlord to do something about it! http://bestsmileys.com/cleaning/3.gifhttp://bestsmileys.com/cleaning/4.gifhttp://bestsmileys.com/argue/2.gif

(I did take a bunch of new pics of my guys... even got a group shot, so I'll try and get around to posting them later in the pic forum!) ;)

Thanks for the kudos for Snoopy!!! :D

Are you kidding me? ANOTHER flood!!! :sorry: You need to take this guy to the rent board and lodge a complaint. That's terrible to have to put up with that!!!!:mad:

Waiting for the photos when you're ready.

Shabby
February 24th, 2008, 07:10 PM
This has been a bad week all round. However, Snoopy began "sneezing" yesterday and kept up all day. :shrug: This morning he was still sneezing and has now added "head shaking''! :sick:

I just googled cat sneezing and cat sneezing/head shaking. It gives several causes but I'm wondering if it's his teeth!! When he was diagnozed with Diabetes on February 4th, the vet said Snoopy's teeth would have to be cleaned because they were a mess, but they'd have to wait a bit until they get his Diabetes under control.

Snoopy has an appointment with the vet tomorrow morning at 8:00a.m. and will be there for the day for a blood curve. I'll get hubby to tell them about the sneezing and head shaking.

We've had Snoopy since he was 9 months old, will turn "11" on May 1st and I've probably heard him sneeze maybe 20 times in all those years. I've NEVER seen him shake his head.

I just hope the diagnosis of Diabetes hasn't been the start of a downhill slide for my baby boy!! :sad:

I'm hoping the vet will tell me tomorrow there is nothing else wrong. :fingerscr Snoopy has always been a TOTAL IN-DOOR cat and has never been outside...unless of course, he's traveling to the vet in his carrier, but it's basically door to door.

How is everyone else and their fur babies?

Cheers :cat:

Love4himies
February 24th, 2008, 07:22 PM
Almost sounds like he has something irritating his sinuses. Does he have any history of allergies?

Snowball used to do that when I turned on a used room humidifier in our bedroom. I stopped using it and the sneezing stopped.

sugarcatmom
February 24th, 2008, 08:17 PM
... the vet said Snoopy's teeth would have to be cleaned because they were a mess, but they'd have to wait a bit until they get his Diabetes under control.

I'm not sure I agree with your vet's logic on this one. If Snoopy has bad teeth, especially if any are infected and need to come out, that could be complicating the regulation process. Infection raises blood glucose, so it's really a good idea to deal with those things as soon as possible. If the rest of his blood work looks good and he's had his blood pressure checked (make sure the vet does this - and I'd also suggest an EKG to check for heart murmur), then there's no reason why he can't have a dental sooner rather than later.

Snoopy has an appointment with the vet tomorrow morning at 8:00a.m. and will be there for the day for a blood curve. I'll get hubby to tell them about the sneezing and head shaking.


Not to nag (okay, maybe a little nag :D) but have you had a chance to get a glucometer yet? It would be considerably less stressful for Snoopy and much more accurate if you could do your own curves and spot checks. I can give you step-by-step instructions if you need them.

Shabby
February 24th, 2008, 08:20 PM
Almost sounds like he has something irritating his sinuses. Does he have any history of allergies?

Snowball used to do that when I turned on a used room humidifier in our bedroom. I stopped using it and the sneezing stopped.

Nope, no allergies of any kind, ever. Snoopy has never been ill, has never had any infections, has never had any injuries including cuts, has never had any broken bones, ear infections, etc. The Diabetes diagnosis came as quite as shock to us on Feb. 4th because he has never been ill before.

He has been an extremely healthy cat for the past 11 years. He sees the vet once a year for vaccines and that's it. We've been very fortuntate, but he IS spoiled...VERY! The only thing he has ever had other than his vaccines, is teething cleaning.

We have not used any new cleaning products (all natural anyway), haven't used any new flooring, carpets, humidifiers or de-humidifiers etc.

Shabby
February 24th, 2008, 08:32 PM
I'm not sure I agree with your vet's logic on this one. If Snoopy has bad teeth, especially if any are infected and need to come out, that could be complicating the regulation process. Infection raises blood glucose, so it's really a good idea to deal with those things as soon as possible. If the rest of his blood work looks good and he's had his blood pressure checked (make sure the vet does this - and I'd also suggest an EKG to check for heart murmur), then there's no reason why he can't have a dental sooner rather than later.



Not to nag (okay, maybe a little nag :D) but have you had a chance to get a glucometer yet? It would be considerably less stressful for Snoopy and much more accurate if you could do your own curves and spot checks. I can give you step-by-step instructions if you need them.


I don't mind being nagged one little bit Sugarcatmom! :D

Yes, I did get the glucometer etc., and HAVE been doing my own testing. I am a Nurse but had no idea Diabetes basically worked the same as human diabetes!!! See, if an OLD dog (oop, CAT) can learn new tricks.

BUT...I'm having a hell of a time regulating his blood sugar. I'll give you today's numbers:

7:00 am. (Before feeding....16.8)
8:00 am. (Feed food Wellness Wet No Grains....)
9:00 am 9.3
11:00 am 11.0
1:00 pm 13.2
3:00 pm 13.2
5:00 pm 15.2
7:00 pm 21.4
8:00 pm (Feed food....22.2)

and now I'm waiting until 9:00 to take it again.

Teeth....Hubby is going to pressure him tomorrow when he takes him to deal with his teeth NOW! His breath clears a room a 2 seconds flat, especially if he yawns in the room!

sugarcatmom
February 24th, 2008, 09:24 PM
I don't mind being nagged one little bit Sugarcatmom! :D

Yes, I did get the glucometer etc., and HAVE been doing my own testing.
Woohoo!! Good for you!


BUT...I'm having a hell of a time regulating his blood sugar. I'll give you today's numbers:

7:00 am. (Before feeding....16.8)
8:00 am. (Feed food Wellness Wet No Grains....)
9:00 am 9.3
11:00 am 11.0
1:00 pm 13.2
3:00 pm 13.2
5:00 pm 15.2
7:00 pm 21.4
8:00 pm (Feed food....22.2)

and now I'm waiting until 9:00 to take it again.

These things can take some time. Remember, it's not a race. Some cats take months to get regulated (which is another reason why the dental shouldn't wait). Now, what time was the insulin shot? There is quite a drop between 7 and 9 am, which shows that Snoopy is at least responding to Lantus. You might need to tweak the timing of food in relation to insulin to see if you can moderate the drop. Some people feed half the meal at shot time, and then feed the other half about an hour later. Other situations might call for food on board an hour before the shot. It can take a fair amount of experimenting and keeping notes to see if you can find a pattern. Just keep up with the testing (but also don't get too obsessed with numbers - look at the whole cat and the 5 Ps: purring, playing, preening, peeing & pooping).

Teeth....Hubby is going to pressure him tomorrow when he takes him to deal with his teeth NOW! His breath clears a room a 2 seconds flat, especially if he yawns in the room!

Ya, that's not good. Not to mention it could be painful. Cats are soooo good at not showing their discomfort (survival mechanism). My boy had a dental last Sept that saw 3 teeth removed, including one of his canines. The pulp of the canine tooth had literally exploded out the end of the root and was starting to calcify into the bone. They had a helluva time getting it out. It was likely quite painful for quite a while, but the only sign from Aztec was a watery eye for about a week before he had it removed.

Shabby
February 24th, 2008, 09:48 PM
[QUOTE=sugarcatmom;552193]Woohoo!! Good for you!

These things can take some time. Remember, it's not a race. Some cats take months to get regulated (which is another reason why the dental shouldn't wait). Now, what time was the insulin shot? There is quite a drop between 7 and 9 am, which shows that Snoopy is at least responding to Lantus. You might need to tweak the timing of food in relation to insulin to see if you can moderate the drop. Some people feed half the meal at shot time, and then feed the other half about an hour later. Other situations might call for food on board an hour before the shot. It can take a fair amount of experimenting and keeping notes to see if you can find a pattern. Just keep up with the testing (but also don't get too obsessed with numbers - look at the whole cat and the 5 Ps: purring, playing, preening, peeing & pooping).

The time of the injection was 8:15 (fifteen minutes after beginning to literally inhale his food.

I have been keeping a DAILY Journal...Dates; times; BG #s before eating + time insulin given and dose after eating etc; I've also been recording his appearance, colour and clarity of his eyes, especially the sclera, his behaviours, number of hours he sleeps or doesn't sleep during various parts of the day in relation to times given insulin, food etc. and watching for ambulatory unsteadiness, checking his fur, feet etc.

I'm following him to his litter box to record his urine output in relation to his fluid intake and his BM's. The diarrhea he had is GONE!!!!! His urine OUTPUT still seems to be a bit excessive but there is improvement.

Being a HUMAN nurse, I do have special urine instruments here to take readings and collections. :D I have a blood pressure cuff but I need to find out what a NORMAL BP is for a cat of his age and what range (#) I need to pump the cuff to, in order to get a correct reading.

Funny, both boys kept saying: "Mom, your're a nurse, why can't you just fix him yourself?' My reply: "The key word here boys is HUMAN nurse NOT CAT nurse!:laughing: I diagnose people, given people insulin, morphine and worked mainly in Palliative Care with drugs commonly used for Palliative patients etc., not CATS!!! :D

loopoo
February 25th, 2008, 12:29 AM
so glad he is doing better with the food and the maintenance,medical care you are giving:)
i hope you get his sneezing, possible tooth issues resolved and :grouphug:i gather you have been through some stress and then some... it always happens in multiples, but it does clear... and we do find time to relax.. and heal

chico2
February 25th, 2008, 07:23 AM
Shabby,sorry to hear about Snoopy,but I believe it could very well be his teeth causing this new problem.
Sugarcatmom does such an excellent job always sharing her knowledge,so I really have nothing else to add,except good luck with Snoopy today
:fingerscr

krdahmer
February 25th, 2008, 09:43 AM
The head shaking can be because of the sneezing/ something in his nose... the sneezing can be something he picked up at all his recent vet visits... and who knows, both could have something to do with his teeth. I'm sure that once his teeth are done, especially if one is infected and needs to come out, all the other stuff will slowly get easier to regulate. :goodvibes: for Snoopy for his vet appt. tomorrow! And :grouphug: for you... :D

sugarcatmom
February 25th, 2008, 06:34 PM
The time of the injection was 8:15 (fifteen minutes after beginning to literally inhale his food.

Holy moly, that's quite a drop then. Presuming that he was still around 16ish when he got the shot, going down to 9.3 in less than an hour is too fast. Could be that his pancreas is trying to get in on the action, or it could be that his dose is too high, or maybe it was just a fluke. I'd keep an eye on those drops and make sure it isn't happening regularly. If you see this again, cut his dose in half for a few days and see if that levels things out.

I have been keeping a DAILY Journal...Dates; times; BG #s before eating + time insulin given and dose after eating etc; I've also been recording his appearance, colour and clarity of his eyes, especially the sclera, his behaviours, number of hours he sleeps or doesn't sleep during various parts of the day in relation to times given insulin, food etc. and watching for ambulatory unsteadiness, checking his fur, feet etc.

Super! You're hardcore. Just don't get so obssessed that you forget to look after yourself, too. Make sure you have a glass of wine (or other bevvie of choice) now and then and just enjoy Snoopy.

I have a blood pressure cuff but I need to find out what a NORMAL BP is for a cat of his age and what range (#) I need to pump the cuff to, in order to get a correct reading.

Hmm, not sure about that. I might have a link somewhere with normal BP values, but maybe your vet can help?

Shabby
February 27th, 2008, 10:00 AM
Phew...I think 2008 is going to be a year of emergencies for our family, I feel like a black cloud is following us! Sorry for the silence, but I had another terrible fall and I'm black and blue. My 'back', I don't even want to go there other than to say, the pain meds are not helping.

I decided to just start a new post to say "thank you" to everyone who responded with ideas regarding Snoopy's sneezing and head shaking.

It IS his teeth and he has an abcess and is currently on Antirobe, 50mg once a day until it's gone. His dental work has been scheduled for 4 weeks from now.

We have reduced Snoopy's insulin to 2.5mg twice a day and his numbers are steady...thankfully!!

Oh, and.....he now weighs 4.9kg which is just over 10 lbs!!!! The vet said he'd like to see Snoopy stay at this weight, and thinks it's a good weight for him. I still can't believe he was once a whopping 20 pounder! :D

So, I shall continue to be diligent in checking him several times a day, watching his input/output etc., and see if we can't get this old boy back in kitty shape!!!!! :cat:

chico2
February 27th, 2008, 10:27 AM
Aww Shabby,how do you manage to fall like that,twice now:yell:
I am really careful walking Bailey,since I have osteo-arthritis,I could easily break bones in a fall.
Hope you feel better soon:pray:

krdahmer
February 27th, 2008, 11:05 AM
Yikes! Hope you feel better soon! And glad to hear Snoopy is doing well... hope the meds work for his abcess. :goodvibes:

Shabby
February 28th, 2008, 08:37 AM
Aww Shabby,how do you manage to fall like that,twice now:yell:
I am really careful walking Bailey,since I have osteo-arthritis,I could easily break bones in a fall.
Hope you feel better soon:pray:


Chico2, it's easy for me...I fall INSIDE the house, not outside!!

Thanks for your kind words. :angel2:

Shabby
February 28th, 2008, 08:42 AM
Yikes! Hope you feel better soon! And glad to hear Snoopy is doing well... hope the meds work for his abcess. :goodvibes:


:laughing::laughing::laughing: I think Snoopy is REALLY beginnning to feel better. Last night he put his ''kung-fu'' moves on Nellie!!! Shadow LOVES Snoopy but sometimes Nellie just up and decides she's going to chase him. When Snoopy was younger, he'd finally learned that even though she was this huge German Shepherd, a couple swipes of his paws could stop her in her tracks.

Well, last night Nellie cornered Snoopy in the kitchen and old Snoopy got up on his hind legs, ears back, nails out, hissing and swinging those paws. Nellie made a quick retreat to her couch where she remained for the rest of the evening.

:thumbs up:thumbs up:thumbs up MY SNOOPY IS COMING BACK!!!!!!!

Jim Hall
February 28th, 2008, 08:59 AM
LOl You can always tell when a kitty fells better when they get rowdy

Good for snoopy

Love4himies
February 28th, 2008, 09:14 AM
Yep, sounds like Snoppy is feeling better.

BAILEYSMUDGE
February 28th, 2008, 09:17 AM
You're love and attention (and the insulin, of course) has brought Snoopy back to enjoying life. Congrads to you!!! Now...about you.....hope your bruises are healing quickly.

phoozles
February 28th, 2008, 12:30 PM
It's so good to hear that Snoopy is on the mend! :thumbs up
Hopefully you'll be on the mend soon enough too! :)

Shabby
February 28th, 2008, 12:44 PM
LOl You can always tell when a kitty fells better when they get rowdy

Good for snoopy

That's for sure!!! I can't believe how quickly he is responding, I'm very proud of him!! :cat:

Shabby
February 28th, 2008, 12:45 PM
Yep, sounds like Snoppy is feeling better.


For sure, and I'm breathing a HUGE sigh of relief!!

Shabby
February 28th, 2008, 12:49 PM
You're love and attention (and the insulin, of course) has brought Snoopy back to enjoying life. Congrads to you!!! Now...about you.....hope your bruises are healing quickly.


Well, thank you very much for saying that! I take my pets happiness and illness's just as seriously as I do my children.

As for me...falls, bruising, feeling ill most days come with the territory of a permanent life-long injury unfortunately. Today, I'm more colourful than a rainbow.

Shabby
February 28th, 2008, 12:51 PM
It's so good to hear that Snoopy is on the mend! :thumbs up
Hopefully you'll be on the mend soon enough too! :)


Thank you!! :D

chico2
February 28th, 2008, 05:16 PM
[QUOTE

As for me...falls, bruising, feeling ill most days come with the territory of a permanent life-long injury unfortunately. Today, I'm more colourful than a rainbow.[/QUOTE]
Aww Shabby,so you falling has to do with your condition,not just beeing clumsy,like me.

catladytabby
February 28th, 2008, 06:46 PM
what i think you should do is ask the vet to check for FIV and thyroid and diabetes . hope you cat gets better

sugarcatmom
February 28th, 2008, 08:15 PM
what i think you should do is ask the vet to check for FIV and thyroid and diabetes . hope you cat gets better

I realize 6 pages of posts is a lot to read, but if you had, you'd know that Snoopy was indeed diagnosed with diabetes and is currently doing great.


Go Snoopy!! And go Snoopy's mom!! (sorry to hear about your latest accident - I'm glad you can maintain a sense of humour about it all :thumbs up).

loopoo
February 28th, 2008, 08:53 PM
glad snoopy is feeling better.. hope you are too :)