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TV Special on Pet Foods

RUSTYcat
January 22nd, 2008, 04:13 PM
PET FOOD: A DOG'S BREAKFAST
Thursday January 24, 2008 at 9pm on CBC-TV
repeating Saturday Janaury 26 at 10pm ET on CBC Newsworld
(check for local times)

http://www.cbc.ca/doczone/dogsbreakfast.html

"In the wake of the scandal...Pet owners and governments are asking: Is pet food both nutritious, and safe? Does it live up to the claims of its makers? Is the industry adequately regulated?...This exposé takes viewers inside the world of pet food manufacturing and is essential viewing for every pet owner...As seen in PET FOOD: A DOG'S BREAKFAST, there is a growing call among consumer activists for greater regulation that will bring the pet food industry to heel. Your pet's life may depend on it."


(To the Mods - I posted this in the General Forum as an announcement of general interest to all of us pet parents. While the topic is food-related, there were none of us who were not affected by the food recall fiasco ten months ago. The Food Forum never receives as much traffic as the General Forum and therefore, if placed there, many of Pets.ca members could very well miss it.)

Purpledomino
January 22nd, 2008, 04:29 PM
Thanks for the heads-up Rustycat......I will be watching that for sure. :dog:

rainbow
January 22nd, 2008, 04:33 PM
Hee hee....I was just about to post about this program too. :thumbs up

I also hope they cover the premium/holistic brands as well as the grocery store brands. :fingerscr

RUSTYcat
January 24th, 2008, 12:07 PM
Just a reminder - or a heads-up to anyone who missed this thread ;) - first time on-air is tonight - main CBC Network stations....

I'll be watching very closely for what's said about "premium foods"... IMO, there are some that are just trying to take advantage of the situation while still selling us crap...I hope they don't brand all "premiums" with the same "brush".

Stacer
January 24th, 2008, 01:17 PM
Thanks Rustycat. I'll be sure to tune into that tonight.

rainbow
January 24th, 2008, 01:59 PM
I hope their website has a place to leave comments about the show like "CBC Marketplace" does. :fingerscr

rainbow
January 24th, 2008, 07:17 PM
PET FOOD: A DOG'S BREAKFAST
Thursday January 24, 2008 at 9pm on CBC-TV
repeating Saturday Janaury 26 at 10pm ET on CBC Newsworld
(check for local times)

It's being repeated on Saturday at 7pm, 10pm and 1am Sunday Pacific Times so maybe it's on at 4pm, 7pm and 10pm Eastern Time.

krdahmer
January 24th, 2008, 09:03 PM
Just watched it... some good info. Scary, but good. But..... I kinda feel like the big evil lady killing her kitties with kibble now! :frustrated:

I noticed though there was no mention of the newer grain free and single protein higher end foods that most of us feed here. Centered on the big box store brands.

Masha
January 24th, 2008, 09:27 PM
I liked the bit about the vet who said that most commercial foods are adequete diets and how she trusts the foods that sell at her vet office. :rolleyes:
When i was listening to her talk it was like a flash back to my last vet visit. She said the SAME thing my vet said. I wonder if the food companies give them a speach to memorize in case anyone questions them... :laughing::laughing:

Interesting show; i wish they would have made it two hours long and went deeper into the various options that are availabe out there to pet owners.

luckypenny
January 24th, 2008, 09:36 PM
I didn't like the fact that they weren't very specific regarding Premium foods. Yes, some lower quality foods list "Premium" on their labels but, when I think 'premium', I think of the higher quality foods that are often discussed here. There's a difference between the two and I would have liked to have seen it talked about.

I have to admit, I certainly wasn't expecting a mention of raw but was quite pleased when it was :o.

I agree Masha, it should have been at least another hour, or a 2-3 part series discussing alternatives.

sugarcatmom
January 24th, 2008, 11:35 PM
I noticed though there was no mention of the newer grain free and single protein higher end foods that most of us feed here.

Dr. Hodgkins does mention them in her book, though, and she doesn't have a very high opinion of them either. The fact is that they're still highly processed and overly starchy (grains are merely replaced with potato or tapioca starches), and lacking moisture (extremely important aspect for a cat). She staunchly believes that no dry food should be fed to cats.

SolaMio
January 25th, 2008, 05:07 AM
[QUOTE=luckypenny;536902]I didn't like the fact that they weren't very specific regarding Premium foods. Yes, some lower quality foods list "Premium" on their labels but, when I think 'premium', I think of the higher quality foods that are often discussed here. There's a difference between the two and I would have liked to have seen it talked about.
QUOTE]

I completely agree with you luckypenny. I was waiting for mention of these foods as well (and not just the brands that can be bought in big dept. stores and grocery chains). I feel fairly confident that I'm feeding my pup higher quality food, but there wasn't much of a distinction made in the program.

Also I was surprised they didn't discuss the difference between having meat / meat meal as a first ingredient (thought they did mention the ingredient splitting, holy moly).

All in all a good program, hopefully raised awareness, but I think more could have been said about the topics above. :shrug:

phoozles
January 25th, 2008, 11:18 AM
I agree - I thought they kind of just touched on the surface - did a lot of repetition, but didn't give any answers.

I felt that if I didn't already know a lot about pet food (from research and of course this board), I would have left confused as to just what I should feed my cats. They didn't emphasize what they thought people should feed their pets - just said what they shouldn't - and even though they showed raw, they gave a disclaimer saying that it's not really safe to do so.

I did love that vet that said that she gave the commercial food to her pets and advised it for her clients - did you see the size of her cat?! :eek: You could have fit two Jake's in there! Poor chubby kitty! :sad:

I thought that in the time that they had, they could have come up with more solutions instead of just showing the same thing over and over.

Frenchy
January 25th, 2008, 11:21 AM
I watched it , and loved it ! I mean , it wasn't news for many of us here , but still , I'm hoping this will help people who thought these foods are good. I told all my coworkers who are cats and dogs owners to look for it on the internet. One responded to me : but my dog will only eat Purina ! I told him I didn't care what he feeds his dog , but I want him to know what exactly he is feeding the dog.

One thing makes me feel cheap tought. About 13 years ago , I met a vet who was preaching the same things .... I did tell him it was logical , but I just wasn't sure about all of it. This vet went on to write a book : vétérinaire en colere. He was so ahead of his time !

sugarcatmom
January 25th, 2008, 11:41 AM
I loved it too! But then Dr. Hodgkins is one of my heros . . . . . (she's the vet that feeds raw to her cats and used to work for a major pet food company *coughhill'scough*).

I don't really think the point of the documentary was to tell you what you should be feeding your pets, but more to open people's eyes as to how nasty the pet food industry is. I thought the emphasis was on the need for better regulations in what is essentially a self-regulated industry. Hopefully there are a few more people out there that saw the show and will go "hmmm" next time they're buying the gynormous bag of crappy kibble.

SnowDancer
January 25th, 2008, 11:43 AM
Can you just imagine the calls re food that the vets and pet food stores are receiving today! Heck, I do feed my dog a holistic,premium (very fancy packaging?!) kibble - and he has been on it for 3 years. The American Eskimo dog does very well on a fish based diet and he is in excellent (as far as we and vet know) health. He eats the Fromm's Salmon - they do make a Whitefish but after he opened a bag at the store and it became "ours" I had the opportunity to smell the stuff - horrible - way stronger than the Salmon. Fromm's Four Star also makes a Duck and Sweet Potato and a Chicken - and dogs are supposed to be able to switch between the 4 offerings without tummy upsets, but it is the meat versus the fish that concerns me. Even his cookies are either Salmon or Sweet Potato. So now I am wondering what to do. I buy his food from our groomer - she also carries a couple of other brands, including the frozen meat loaf type of stuff - her dogs eat both the Fromms and the frozen - but the are big dogs. My guy who gains weight easily weighs 22 lbs. We had a sample meat loaf that we were to mix with the kibble, but at first feeding at 5:15 a.m. my husband kept forgetting and the life span once defrosted isn't very long. He loved the stuff of course but his teeth develop tartar just breathing, so who knows. And I remember when Top Choice was the dog food of choice by millions of people - and premium at that.

Frenchy
January 25th, 2008, 11:47 AM
I thought the emphasis was on the need for better regulations in what is essentially a self-regulated industry.

Yep , it's sad when you can make dog food with a boot , and to know it would be ok to sell it ! :eek:

CearaQC
January 25th, 2008, 12:12 PM
Figures they wouldn't show alternatives to better food. :wall:

The best journalists in the world that want to do the right thing are stuck under corporate and business control that ultimately censor anything that might compromise corporate big business interest or profit.

Those of you that have seen this, what kind of commercials were shown during this show anyway?

Everything that comes from China has to go through the Panama Canal. And lots of interesting events have unfolded because of that canal. Who owns it? What kind of security do they have down there? Where do the containers go after they go through the canal? These are questions people should be asking... but are not. And there is information that mass media is NOT telling the people.

"The purpose is to bring in cheap goods from China," Schlafly declared. "The plan is to bring the cheap Chinese goods and the containers across the Pacific and then dock at the Mexican Pacific port Lazaro Cardenas and then bring them up on the railroad that's already in place, put them in the Mexican trucks and bring them up the NAFTA highway. And they will never be inspected until they get to Kansas City."

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/kincaid072407.htm

Inland ports? WTF? Kansas City is due to be one such port.

http://www.nascocorridor.com/pages/ports_network/ports_network.htm

The image below used to be the main image on top of the NASCO official website, but has since been replaced by another graphic.

http://www.burritoville.net/nasco_home_page_09.jpg

Panama is planning to build a deeper, wider Panama Canal to allow Communist Chinese super-containerships carrying cheap 21st century slave-labor under-market goods to have direct access to the Gulf of Mexico and key NAFTA/CAFTA ports such as Miami.

With some 50% to 60% of all containers from China destined for Midwest and Eastern U.S. cities, reducing transportation costs includes opening ports in the Gulf of Mexico and the Atlantic to avoid having to pay U.S. transportation costs to lug Chinese containers across the U.S. in trucks and trains.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=16844

phoozles
January 25th, 2008, 12:30 PM
I loved it too! But then Dr. Hodgkins is one of my heros . . . . . (she's the vet that feeds raw to her cats and used to work for a major pet food company *coughhill'scough*).

I don't really think the point of the documentary was to tell you what you should be feeding your pets, but more to open people's eyes as to how nasty the pet food industry is. I thought the emphasis was on the need for better regulations in what is essentially a self-regulated industry. Hopefully there are a few more people out there that saw the show and will go "hmmm" next time they're buying the gynormous bag of crappy kibble.

While I agree that it was a great thing to open people's eyes, don't you think that at the same time it will make people wonder what they should be doing instead? It ends up spreading fear instead of giving alternatives :shrug:

I don't think they should have said outright "This *blank brand* food is what you have to feed your pet" , but I think guidelines would have been nice. Otherwise it just kind of falls into the category of fear mongering, IMHO.

Pointing out the shortcomings was great though. I liked how they dispelled the info that Purina Puppy and Dog Chow have been advertising lately - I saw the commercial that said that it would increase the dogs life by almost two years and wondered how that could be, knowing what was in those foods. Showing that it just meant them eating less was pretty shocking :eek:
They shouldn't be able to get away with that! :frustrated:

Longblades
January 25th, 2008, 12:45 PM
I also felt the show glossed over several important topics. There was not enough expalnation of the different Vet's opinions (all commercially prepared food is the same versus raw). The chart shown of analyses of premium foood versus grocery store did show a category with quite different numbers (the high purple spike) but no mention was made of what that was. They spoke of new legislation in the U.S. to regulate pet food advertizing claims but gave us no info. on what they were looking for. I think I wasted my time by staying up late to watch this show. I didn't learn anything very helpful and am back in the same old position of having to do all the research myself.

On the other hand, the show on Market Place which explored the Heart and Stroke symbol on supposedly recommended healthy, nutritious human food was excellent. Did anyone see that? The end result is the same, you have to do your own research and read labels carefully and know what levels of sodium, sugar, fat, etc. are good for you. As an expose of the H. and S. logo though, it was excellent.

BAILEYSMUDGE
January 25th, 2008, 01:30 PM
I agree ... I'm still very confused..:confused: But there were TWO "nutritionists" there...the other lady (sorry, can't remember her name) was feeding her cat the kibble I've been buying from the vet and stated as such. So ... as you say...back to square one...:shrug:

Ford Girl
January 25th, 2008, 01:38 PM
I enjoyed the show for sure, I can't say what I learnt that was new, but I think it was aimed at people who feed that crap to their dogs...people who don't put as much time and effort like most of us do.

One thing I'd like to comment on is the advertizing...there needs to be regualtions on that sort of thing for sure....people do fall for the packaging and are blind to the contents. I dont get how they as an industry can do that and still feel good about the product they provide. Some of the claims they debunked were rediculous...

And then the cat with life long kidney problems who's now eating Medi-cal, yet when they showed all the food listed under menu - medical was there? :shrug: It really contridicted itself.....Medi-cal is corn based and VERY expensive. And the show confrimed that vets are not highly educated in nutrition - thats it's only recently that they've started to dig deeper.

I too really wished they would have disected the holistic and organic and higher quality foods that some of us do feed, I would really like to know whats in the Orijen that I feed. The package has no pictures, they don't get you to buy it that way...the bag is very plain advertising wise - but it's got a whole lot of info and facts and %'s on the bag...throwing out scientific wording and phrases like "biologically correct". Makes me wonder...

I also think the comment about kibble with table scraps is better then kibble alone could mislead people to over feeding inappropriate foods to their dog. :shrug: I mean it could have been clarified very easily by listing quickly things you could add like frsh fruit or veggies, lean meats, eggs...."table scraps" to me could be a anything.

BAILEYSMUDGE
January 25th, 2008, 02:03 PM
I mean it could have been clarified very easily by listing quickly things you could add like frsh fruit or veggies, lean meats, eggs...."table scraps" to me could be a anything.

Good point! :thumbs up

TeriM
January 25th, 2008, 02:12 PM
I thought is was ok. I really think that they should have expanded on how to read labels, that is probably the best tool available that we have to determine quality. I think it probably just raised more questions for people who are already struggling with how to figure things out. Hopefully those questions will lead those people to further research in places like ours to get great info :fingerscr.

Mamakicia
January 26th, 2008, 01:42 AM
Dr. Hodgkins does mention them in her book, though, and she doesn't have a very high opinion of them either. The fact is that they're still highly processed and overly starchy (grains are merely replaced with potato or tapioca starches), and lacking moisture (extremely important aspect for a cat). She staunchly believes that no dry food should be fed to cats.

Dr. Hodgkins new book, Your Cat, is excellent - I've read it from cover to cover, twice. However, we all know that black and white doesn't apply to most people. Our world is usually some shade of grey - particularly if one is converting from kibble to wet. And it can take months to convert kitties to all wet food. So in the meantime, I still think it's waaaay better to feed grain-free kibble with wet than conventional kibble crap with wet. Even with the potato and tapioca, if you do the math :cool:, 15% carbohydrates is still much better than 30-60% carbohydrates.

sugarcatmom
January 26th, 2008, 12:56 PM
And it can take months to convert kitties to all wet food.

Tell me about it!! Probably took me a year to eliminate all dry from my cat's diet. He was a heavy-duty addict after eating the stuff for 9 yrs, and I had the added complication of him being diabetic (which was how I came to realize what nasty stuff kibble really is).

So in the meantime, I still think it's waaaay better to feed grain-free kibble with wet than conventional kibble crap with wet. Even with the potato and tapioca, if you do the math :cool:, 15% carbohydrates is still much better than 30-60% carbohydrates.

No doubt about it. But I think too many people tend to think the anti-kibble rants don't apply to them because they're feeding "the good stuff". When it comes to dry, there is no "good stuff", only some that is "less bad" than others. So ya, as a transitional food, the EVO and CORE and Indigo Moon type of foods are definitely preferable to Cat Chow and Whiskas, but are still not suitable as a mainstay diet for felines.

woof99
January 26th, 2008, 06:48 PM
And then the cat with life long kidney problems who's now eating Medi-cal, yet when they showed all the food listed under menu - medical was there? It really contridicted itself.....Medi-cal is corn based and VERY expensive. And the show confrimed that vets are not highly educated in nutrition - thats it's only recently that they've started to dig deeper.


Just so you know, Medi-Cal is currently building a plant in Guelph, Ontario. All it's food will be made there. It will also be a plant open to tours, so people will be welcome to visit.
Medi-Cal is also the only vet diet that paid for all pets eating one of it's recalled product to have blood work and then if pet needed more treatments, Medi-Cal paid for all treatments, some cats and dogs will be taken care of for the rest of their life. Hill's paid for $100 tops. I know of clients with $1000's of vet bills and Hill's refused to pay. No other company paid for anything.
I work in a vet clinic and have been feeding my pets Medi-Cal for over 10 years. Every day, I see cats and dogs coming in on crappy diets, get placed on Medi-Cal and they are like a new pet.
My cat is 16- she is in perfect health, my 2 dogs (45lbs+) are 14 and 11 years old, they are also in perfect health, the youngest has arthritis, but that is all.
If Medi-Cal was so bad I wouldn't know so many tech friends and vets that have pets living well into their late teens and many cats into their 20's.

The Medi-Cal rep always tells me that she has no problems with the hollistic pet diets, or even people making home-made diets (if they follow a nutritionist), what she has a problem with is the Old Roy, Beneful, Iams, Pedigree, Kibbles and Bits.....
In Canada- 6% of people buy their pet's food at their vets, 24% at pet specialty stores and 70% at grocery/Walmart type stores (junk food!).

We sell 2Kg bags of feline Medi-Cal for around $17-20. This lasts most cats a little over 1 month. I once calculated the cost of feeding Medi-Cal Preventive to a 40Lbs dog around $0.70/ day. If you think this is expensive...no comment.

I agree with the Medi-Cal rep in as such I do not try to "push" our vet diets on clients when the pet is doing well. I only try to recommend one of our Medi-Cal diets when the pet looks like crap. I think that many of the hollistic diets are excellent, the only concern I have with them is that many clients overfeed their pets and obesity is sooo bad for pets. Many of those diets are quite rich in Kcals.

Anyways, sorry to be a little defensive but I LOVE my dogs and have tried MANY diets (hollistic diets) over the past 15 years, I used to run a pet supply store so I know both sides of the pet food industry. Bottom line, I believe in diets that perform well. I need to see it to believe it.... and I have been impressed time and time again with many of the Medi-Cal products. If I didn't see it, I wouldn't recommend it. My fave in the retail side is Solid Gold.

Education and experience is key.

Mamakicia
January 27th, 2008, 03:47 AM
But I think too many people tend to think the anti-kibble rants don't apply to them because they're feeding "the good stuff". When it comes to dry, there is no "good stuff", only some that is "less bad" than others. So ya, as a transitional food, the EVO and CORE and Indigo Moon type of foods are definitely preferable to Cat Chow and Whiskas, but are still not suitable as a mainstay diet for felines.

Yeah, I agree. Although I guess for the people out there who A/ don't want to bother with non-kibble diets or B/ just don't realize that kibble is inferior - at least there are some better kibbles out there than there used to be. :shrug:

Love4himies
January 27th, 2008, 06:34 AM
I missed the flipping show again:wall:. It was on at 10 last night and I fell asleep at 9:30.:yell::frustrated:

Frenchy
January 27th, 2008, 11:14 AM
We sell 2Kg bags of feline Medi-Cal for around $17-20. This lasts most cats a little over 1 month. I once calculated the cost of feeding Medi-Cal Preventive to a 40Lbs dog around $0.70/ day. If you think this is expensive...no comment.



I haven't look at the Medi-cal prenventive ingredients but I KNOW Medi-Cal Veggie for dogs formula. 4 years ago , it was $70.00 for a 33 lbs bag. It's freakin corn base ! $70.00 for a bag of pop corn ! And you're telling us this is a good food ? :rolleyes: yea right !

Frenchy
January 27th, 2008, 11:15 AM
I missed the flipping show again:wall:. It was on at 10 last night and I fell asleep at 9:30.:yell::frustrated:

Google CBC , they said you can download it from there.

RUSTYcat
January 27th, 2008, 01:02 PM
I missed the flipping show again:wall:. It was on at 10 last night and I fell asleep at 9:30.:yell::frustrated:

You'll find a precis of it here: http://redstarcafe.wordpress.com/2008/01/25/a-dogs-breakfast/

Google CBC , they said you can download it from there.

Apparently, not. CBC informed an Itchmo member that, because it isn't a CBC production (it was made by http://www.yapfilms.com/index.html ), it won't be available online.

Frenchy
January 27th, 2008, 01:05 PM
Apparently, not. CBC informed an Itchmo member that, because it isn't a CBC production (it was made by http://www.yapfilms.com/index.html ), it won't be available online.

:sad: :sad:

woof99
January 28th, 2008, 06:09 PM
I haven't look at the Medi-cal prenventive ingredients but I KNOW Medi-Cal Veggie for dogs formula. 4 years ago , it was $70.00 for a 33 lbs bag. It's freakin corn base ! $70.00 for a bag of pop corn ! And you're telling us this is a good food ? yea right !

Sorry, but there is no corn in vegie- This is why the hollistic vet (Dr Beltram at the Blair AH) recommends it. it is especially good for small breeds with food allergies and Calcium oxalate stones or Dalmatian's w/ Urates. It targets a urinary ph of 6.8-7 to help with those crystals.
It's not something I would feed the average healthy dogs, but I do see many dogs w/ severe meat protein allergies and this works beautifully for them. Dr Tony Yu and Dr Jan Hall- The 2 PHD dermotologists at OVC recommend it frequently as well.

Dry - Vegetarian Formula
Oat Flour, Rice, Potato Protein, Flax Meal, Vegetarian Digest, Beet Pulp, Tomato Pomace (Source of Lycopene), Yeast, Vegetable Oil (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, Rosemary Extract, Citric Acid and Lecithin), Minerals (Calcium Carbonate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Potassium Citrate, Salt, Ferrous Sulphate, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Oxide, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Sulphate, Copper Proteinate, Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Cobalt Carbonate and Organic Selenium), Dried Carrot, Fructo-Oligosaccharides, Taurine, Vitamins (Vitamin E, Vitamin A, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Inositol, Niacin, Beta-Carotene, Vitamin C, Riboflavin, Biotin, Folic Acid, Vitamin B12, Vitamin D3 and Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex), L-Carnitine and L-Glutamine.

Love4himies
January 29th, 2008, 07:15 AM
Thanks Rustycat.

rhynes
January 29th, 2008, 11:26 AM
I just got the show downloaded, have to watch that one later when theres time...

Don't know if i'm allowed to post a torrent here or not. Please let me know. It's good quality.

Ford Girl
January 29th, 2008, 11:46 AM
I haven't look at the Medi-cal prenventive ingredients but I KNOW Medi-Cal Veggie for dogs formula. 4 years ago , it was $70.00 for a 33 lbs bag. It's freakin corn base ! $70.00 for a bag of pop corn ! And you're telling us this is a good food ? :rolleyes: yea right !

I agree frenchy, I bought medical for 9 years for my cat, the vet pushed it and raved about it, after several hundred $$$ of tests for my poor cat who's health was declining...we found nothing wrong with him. The vet still insisted on Medical, even tho I brought in info about alergies and corn based diet (he was on the gastro formula - packed with corn)...he still said it wasn't the food. So I switched him to Orijen, and now Innova. His illness stopped immediately. Even after I told the vet, he still wouldnt say it could ahve beent he food.

My first comment was only to show that vets push it yet say cats need meat, and are not always open to the fact that the food they are pushing could possibly be the problem. People trust vets and take their word, yet they also admitt they are not nutrion specilists. How can they say all in one line....cats need meat, feed medical....it contradicts itself.

It's also funny that they show the vets treating the sick animals with a food that was made by menu foods?

I am not medical bashing - it's better then grocery store brands...but it's by no means a bilogically approprioate food for cats or dogs. Yes, I too was paying $37 a bag for dry Medical @ 1 cup a day, I now pay $30 for the same size bag @ 1/2 a cup a day. Lasts me twice as long. While it's not expensive compared bag to bag, only $7 more, they have to eat alot more medical to get what they could get out of less amounts of a better quality food.

The only reason anyone with basic knowledge in pet nutrion would feed this food is cuz their vet insists on it.


[HTML]
Sorry, but there is no corn in vegie- This is why the hollistic vet (Dr Beltram at the Blair AH) recommends it. it is especially good for small breeds with food allergies and Calcium oxalate stones or Dalmatian's w/ Urates. It targets a urinary ph of 6.8-7 to help with those crystals.
It's not something I would feed the average healthy dogs, but I do see many dogs w/ severe meat protein allergies and this works beautifully for them. Dr Tony Yu and Dr Jan Hall- The 2 PHD dermotologists at OVC recommend it frequently as well.

Dry - Vegetarian Formula
Oat Flour, Rice, Potato Protein, Flax Meal, Vegetarian Digest, Beet Pulp, Tomato Pomace (Source of Lycopene), Yeast, Vegetable Oil (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, Rosemary Extract, Citric Acid and Lecithin), Minerals (Calcium Carbonate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Potassium Citrate, Salt, Ferrous Sulphate, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Oxide, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Sulphate, Copper Proteinate, Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Cobalt Carbonate and Organic Selenium), Dried Carrot, Fructo-Oligosaccharides, Taurine, Vitamins (Vitamin E, Vitamin A, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Inositol, Niacin, Beta-Carotene, Vitamin C, Riboflavin, Biotin, Folic Acid, Vitamin B12, Vitamin D3 and Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex), L-Carnitine and L-Glutamine.

Ok, for a dog, this may be ok, but cats need meat...how can you say this is good for cats, there is no meat in this, I do realize it's a veggie formula, and it may work for animals that have severe allergies...but how can anyone say that it's a complete food?

It's not something I would feed the average healthy dogs

Why is that? This is why the public is confused....to me, that quoted line and the above ingredient list - sounds like a last measure option when no other foods in the whole planet would work I would resort to feeding dried processed veggies in kibble form.

rhynes
January 30th, 2008, 06:39 PM
I downloaded this show and finally got to watch it. It's quite good, pretty informative...

I have to be honest. Until I joined pets.ca and actually started reading, i've never looked at the ingredients on a bag of dog food. Never realized what i've been feeding dogs all my life :frustrated:

Love4himies
January 31st, 2008, 09:06 AM
I downloaded this show and finally got to watch it. It's quite good, pretty informative...

I have to be honest. Until I joined pets.ca and actually started reading, i've never looked at the ingredients on a bag of dog food. Never realized what i've been feeding dogs all my life :frustrated:


How did you download it?

rhynes
January 31st, 2008, 10:04 AM
I have a clean torrent, it's 400 megs. don't know if I'm allowed to post it here...

Love4himies
January 31st, 2008, 11:49 AM
I went on a torrent website, but don't know how to get the program downloaded :shrug:

Hound Dog
May 25th, 2009, 03:25 PM
This program is being re-broadcast Thursday May 28, 2009, at 9 p.m. on CBC-TV. (http://www.cbc.ca/doczone/dogsbreakfast.html)