January 20th, 2008, 12:22 PM
just wondering what your homemade philosophies are! please include any comments or explanations you think would better help others to understand what you are doing!
edit: also please include some information about your animal such as what kind, its breed, size and activity levels and if you would, why you went homemade and how its worked (or not!) for you!
January 20th, 2008, 01:57 PM
I was reading somewhere else on the forum here that we don't need to include veggies and fruit in with the ground food. I am confused now. I thought Dr. Pitcairn said an all-meat diet is bad for dogs, and must include some organs, veggies, etc.?
I am still pretty new at this and have not read any books, just some stuff on the web. But I want to start making my own ground food instead of buying the pre-packaged rolls.
January 20th, 2008, 02:24 PM
i think nutritionally you have two-ish options, meat and offal and bone or all of the above. i made the poll multiple choice so people could pick and choose what THEY include. for example i choose raw meat and bones and offal and fruit/veggies, dairy and grains. Mister has a variety filled diet because its convenient for us. i feel a meat/offal/bones with no non-meat products is possible for cats but im not sure how i feel about it with a dog.
i do not believe a meat only (ie no bones or offal) diet is possible. there is a great deal missing nutritionally from meat (ie calcium for one!!!) that must be found elsewhere. some people feed meat/offal/bones exclusively. many dogs with food allergies do well with the simplicity of this because you are sticking to 3-8 different meat sources where as when you add veggies/fruit/dairy/grain you open yourself to much more. my cats have been on a meat only diet for several months now and thrive on it. cats are also obligate carnivores. i do know a few members who feed homemade and also feed their cats nonmeat stuff.
there is as much diversity in homemade diets as there are in human diets!! i created this poll to help me better understand what others chose and why and whether its worked for them. i think there are some obviously 'wrong' ways (ie meat ONLY or no variety) but that there are also several different 'right ways'.
i feed my dog similarly to my children. loads of variety, exposure to many different foods but my children dont need the kind of protein my dog does, my dog can eat meat in a way that does not destroy some of the nutrients by cooking it. there are small modifications due to species BUT the idea is the same, in many cases the foods are also the same but the proportions of each food group is different.
does that clarify things?? :)
January 20th, 2008, 02:44 PM
Yes! Thank you for your answer. Right now I am giving "the boys" either chicken necks or backs in the morning (I find this easy and they have no problem crunching up the bones).
At night I am giving them the "mince" which I buy pre-made. Sometimes in between they get a raw egg or some organic yogurt. They absolutely love everything we have tried in the raw diet so far.
The biggest problem I had before starting the raw diet was their weight, and digestive issues. They were both overweight on the dry food, even though I was carefully measuring portions and denying them many goodies.
After 4 weeks on the raw diet they each lost 2 lbs. (a lot for doxies) and had a renewed vitality. And no more vomiting and bloating!
Lucky for me, my vet is not against this diet, although he doesn't seem to know a whole lot about it. I know some vets get really upset when they find out we are feeding our pets raw bones!
I am looking forward to reading more of the forum and learning more about this new way of feeding. It seems very logical to me, and I only wish I had found out about it sooner!
January 20th, 2008, 05:51 PM
About 50% of what I feed is pre-made raw-so ground muscle meat/bone/organs. The other 50% is a mix of ground meat, organs, pulped veggies and a few supplements like carob, kelp, oils, etc. w/ground eggshell depending on how much bone they've been getting.
My thinking on what I feed is that whole, fresh foods are a whole lot better, but beyond that, I think it's a matter of the individual dog and owner. I personally don't think grains should be included, but again, that's what works for me and my dogs. I also don't think fruits and veggies (or supplements for that matter), strictly speaking, need to be included, but since they have things to offer and I have a food processor, I add them as aprox. 5% of what the dogs eat.
ETA: I use chicken, turkey, beef, bison, duck (very rarely).
My dogs are both aprox. 6 years old, pit bull/boxer mixes, besides some pre-existing digestive issues, they're both thriving on this way of feeding.
January 20th, 2008, 07:13 PM
i guess i should have gone into what we do huh?? :)
we have Mister, 95-ish pound labX.
he is getting fat because the cats arent eating as much as they should and he is the one who polishes it off. we are talking about a fasting day once every two weeks.
a typical week (of which changes) is thus-
dog- chicken (back, thighs)
cat- chicken (wings, breast)
dog- 20/80 ground beef (2lbs) and beef liver (half cup???) some eggs(shell on)
cats- chicken (wings, breast) with little pieces of Misters entire meal tucked into the chicken
dog- turkey wings
cats- turkey legs
dog- pigs feet
cats- chicken breast with pieces of pork tucked into the breast
all- cooked fish (assorted) with chicken liver and eggs(shell-less) blended in
dog- chicken (back, thigh)
cat- chicken (wing, breast)
dog- clean out fridge stuff (cottage cheese, yogurt, dinner left over, bread heel, carrots, celery, etc) supplemented with whatever is lacking or off balance.
cats- chicken (wings, breast) with liver tucked in.
once or twice a week we will feed the cats just eggs(shell-less) blended in a dish long before they actually get fed. we have two that will happily eat that. if i think of it, ill save some of the fishy juice and put it in the egg mix and the other two go bananas over it too.
in the fridge clean up i put the spring lettuce mix on the floor of which everyone likes.
Jeffrey is almost 2. most of what he eats ends up (in some way or another) on the floor. thats peas/carrots, cereal, crackers, apple... we also dont throw food away in this house unless its 'just too much' for the dog. im not going to feed a weeks of sandwiches to the dog because Cailyn doesnt want to eat it. :) but he licks her lunch box clean, Jeffreys high chair tray clean... most of our plates.
some weeks they all get more egg because money is tight or im lazy. sometimes we do canned fish instead of fresh cooked/uncooked (again, depends on moms mood!). sometimes ill give Mister a whole chicken (up to 5lbs) and let him eat then bury what he doesnt finish. he digs it up the next day and thats all he gets. when i feed him the fridge stuff i add honey and ground flax, molasses sometimes.
one of our cats really likes mandarin oranges and peas. of all the thigns Jeffrey throws on the floor the cats graze from that too but not so much i could say how much of their diet is that. no more than 2% weekly. its just eggs, meat, bones and organs for them.
some other raw meats/organs we add in are pork kidneys, deer.... guts, lamb if there is a sale, corning game hens if we come into a little money for the cats (those are barely a mouthful for Mister!). ive bought duck before which went down well, just pretty expensive. we dont do a huge variety of meats on a weekly basis because their main source for calcium is chicken bones.
financially we try to stick to under $1 per pound. if we go over that we feed more egg which is really inexpensive.
we are hoping to scrounge around enough cash (taxes??) to get some labs done on Hunter (middle road eater in our house) and Mister just to see where things set and if we need to change anything.
boy thats long! can you believe i hardly talk in person? :rolleyes:
January 20th, 2008, 10:47 PM
Duffy is a 12 lbs cat with CRF, her homeopath vet suggested a switch from holistic canned to raw. I feed her the vet suggested prepackaged ground meat/bone meals from local suppliers - all non-medicated hormone-free, free-range meat, organ & bone. The meals have liver, heart, wild salmon oil, cod liver oil, full spectrum vit E, chicken has free range egg yolk added in.
Occasionally she will get some cooked meat from my dinner.
Duffy is on whole food supplements for all organs & specifically kidney support as well as a probiotic.
She occasionally gets lightly seared lamb hearts for a treat. I have raw ground beef hearts that I will give her to try this week.
Chicken is her base meat with beef, lamb, elk 1 day a week. Just started the elk this week. Over the next few weeks I will give her rabbit, duck & salmon - but only 1 new meat source a week.
I'm looking into a taurine supplement - though the woman who runs the raw food store said the beef hearts have the highest source of taurine.
January 20th, 2008, 11:21 PM
I just replied in your other thread :frustrated: :D. I'll copy and paste my reply here :D....
It so varies day by day. Some mornings, a half dozen or so of thawed sardines or other fish. Other mornings, a Kong stuffed with peanut butter and cottage cheese. And at least 3-4 times a week, a mushy mixture of whole eggs, a couple of tablespoons of over-cooked oatmeal and buckwheat groats or brown rice (just for Ava and Lucky, Penny can't tolerate grains), a handful of wild blueberries, apples, bananas (whatever's available), and sometimes probiotic yogurt, kefir or probiotic capsules. To this, we add coconut oil, safflower oil, ester C, vitamin E, and B-complex. We alternate between unpasteurized honey and molasses. Every now and then, chopped dried fruit.
Dinners vary greatly, depends if I'm home to feed them or on what is available in the freezer. If I feed whole birds, then that's all they get, I don't add anything else. Some variations:
- whole small chicken (under 1 1/2 lbs because they don't always properly digest the bones in larger birds)
- 3-4 quails
- 6 chicken necks, 1 lb of boneless chicken, acv, a variety of pureed vegies, liver, giblets
- beef cubes/trimmings, acv, veggies, liver, kidneys, heart
- (when Dad has to feed) 1 1/2 - 2 lbs beef rib meat on (keeps them busy for a couple of hours and not bothering him to go out and play)
- (again, when Dad has to feed ) a can of green tripe (not tolerated very well by Penny)
- pork ribs
On the odd occasion, they get rabbit and duck if I can pick it up at a good price or if it's a special occasion (not that they care, it's more for me ).
To the cubed up meat dinners, I add a couple of times per week: kelp or any other softened and pureed seaweed, alfalfa, cod liver oil, garlic capsule, and an assortment of dried herbs.
And yes, we do give leftovers occasionally as well. With three human picky eaters in the house, there's always 1/2 or more of someone's share going to the dogs.
I'm not as anal as when I so nervously first began. As long as I'm feeding a wide variety, and as long as the dogs (and their poop) are healthy, I'm pretty laid back and extremely satisfied with how it's going so far.
As for my dogs...
Lucky: Some type of Spitz X....Chow/Shepherd, approx. 3 1/2 yrs old? Severely malnourished (to the point of blindness) caused by intestinal parasites when we first adopted him. Once treated appropriately, he always had issues with his digestive system ie. vomiting, diarrhea, weight loss, etc. Also had a dry rough coat. Now, has gained and maintained his weight aaaannnnd no more tummy issues :thumbs up. Super soft coat!
Penny: Black Labrador Retriever, possibly a mix, approx. 1 1/2 yrs old. No real medical issues however, we suspected an intolerance to grain. Dandruffy/dry skin, dull coat, yeasty ears, a little on the chubby side. She now has a super shiny coat, healthy skin, slimmed down and more muscular. The yeasty ears can still be a problem at times though. She's currently being treated with meds for it.
Ava: Doberman/Shepherd X (we think), approx. 3 yrs. old. No medical issues. The changes we've noted in her are a much shinier coat, healthier skin (used to have dandruff too), and much more muscle tone, especially in her long lean legs.
All three have pretty high activity levels...approx, 4-5 hours combined of hard play, running, walking per day.
January 21st, 2008, 12:30 AM
Variety of meats
beef, chicken, turkey, salmon, sardines
eggs, variety of grains (wheat, flax,oats, rice)
veggies galore but she won't eat any fruit absolutely hates it.
Dairy: milk, yogurt, cottage cheese
4yr old female spayed rough collie cross
Nice diets you all have!
January 21st, 2008, 09:31 AM
humm guess I'd have to check mark everything,
My Dogs get a very Wide Variety of pretty much everything that is Dog safe.
Only exception would be my Shih-tzu's they get everything But Bones, excluding Large Beef Bones, Those they get.
Plus Chappers he don't seem to handle Brewers yeast, Causes his saliva glands to swell :shrug: and just generally isn't himself for a few days.
Other then that They pretty much get it all.
January 28th, 2008, 09:34 PM
I'm a prey model raw feeder and only checked off raw meats and raw offal as it fits in with my philosophy of appropriate prey model feeding.
For prey model feeders, A Natural Raw Diet, consists of entire carcass, raw meats, raw meaty bones, fish, and organ meats. It is our belief that a natural raw diet is the most species appropriate version of feeding for a dog or cat.
Our diet does not ever include grains, yeasts, dairy, below or above-ground veggies or cooked food of any kind or in any amount, with the exception of training treats. Supplementation is considered a last resort for a canines who may require something specific that cannot be found in the foods we feed on a regular basis. Essentially we follow the Mec and Lonsdale methods.
Individuals following prey model diets and Natural Raw Diets, (NRD), methods do not advocate the use of supplementation as a replacement for feeding a proper NRD.
Anyways, that's it in a nutshell. I have a 14 year history of raw feeding, and NRD is how I've been feeding over the past four years and I've found it far more simplistic and beneficial to all other variations of raw feeding.
14 years ago we didn't really have the luxury of premium commercial foods, nor did we have any type of global recognition as we do today, that commercial dog foods were harming our pets, so at that time the chief alternative was raw or homecooked.
Chows and Chinese Shar-pei of all ages and sizes.