Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

Our latest rescue turns out to be smuggling a few more.

jaclmickles
January 11th, 2008, 04:04 PM
We got Sabine Nov. 10. I had posted about her rescue on here and that she looked like she might be expecting. Well, I took her to the vet for shots and we agreed that we needed to hold off on the live-virus shots because the vet agreed that she looked like she might be expecting, though the vet wasn't able to tell for sure by feeling.

On a separate note: What we were able to tell by feeling is that it seems Sabine had been shot at some point with either BBs or buckshot.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand.... We kept watching Sabine grow. Since the amount of time she was with us kept growing and nothing seemed to be happening, except weight gain, we began to wonder. Until a week or so ago, when she started showing a "sagging line" connecting her teets. So, last night I got out the stethescope. However, I couldn't tell anything. Then again, I couldn't tell anything on myself either when I was expecting. :o
So, I checked her teets (am I spelling that correctly?). We have milk!!

Now, I may not be too bright sometimes, but I know females don't produce milk just for the fun of it. So, any day now I am expecting some excitement. We were not expecting this when we rescued Sabine. However, it's better for her to be rescued then give birth.

This brings me to griping about the people we got her from. Did they know she had been in heat and breeding? I had asked if she had given birth recently or could be expecting and the answer I got was, "I don't think she has had puppies before.
I guess there could be a small chance that my miniature dachshund got her, but I highly doubt it."
Well, I highly doubt someone's telling me the truth. Sabine had to have gotten pregnant right before we got her since it was 2 months ago now.

Anyway, here we are, just waiting for some unknown dane mix at some unknown time. :stork-baby:

I've been doing lots of research. Any other advice?

CearaQC
January 11th, 2008, 06:42 PM
When she lays down can you see or feel belly movement? It's actually kinda fun to watch.

I went thru the same thing in November... rescue that was pregnant.

Have you ever experienced a puppy birth before?

jaclmickles
January 11th, 2008, 07:04 PM
I can't tell anything. Then again, I wasn't able to tell much on my own pregnancy either, and Im knew I was pregnant. :D

I've tried feeling, listening, everything. I just don't know what I'm feeling and listening for. I did read that a vet would be able to tell around the 20th day. Unfortunately, our vet wasn't able to discern by feeling. She just agreed that the other signs at that time pointed to pregnancy.

The last time I experienced a puppy birth personally was when I was a child, many, many years ago. I remember the cat's birth as a teen. That was still long ago.

CearaQC
January 11th, 2008, 07:09 PM
Well I'm no expert, but the recent experience from November is still fresh in my mind.

Not really sure what to say at the moment. Have a bit of a headache.

However you're more than welcome to message me and I'll do the best I can to help you.

Later tonite after I have a bath I'll link some sites that helped me through the process.

Winston
January 11th, 2008, 07:18 PM
CearaQC you could write a book on your girl and her experience!

Start it off by saying " I asked for a dog and I received 11!" :laughing::laughing: I guess it wasnt funny at the time!

I hope you figure out if your girl is pregnant! I guess time will tell...How long is a pregnancy normally?

Cindy

Rottielover
January 11th, 2008, 07:27 PM
I read gestation period is anywhere from 57-70 days.....63-65 being norm

jaclmickles
January 11th, 2008, 07:30 PM
Thanks, CearaQC, for your offer to help. I'm just worried about what to expect, and more precisely, when. I did go to the site posted on the boards as to how to tell and read the info there. Plus, I got a couple of books. However, I'm sure they can't really prepare you for everything.

I didn't even give natural births myself, so that's not going to be any help.

Plus, I'm not sure what our other dane is going to do, as they usually sleep together.

I keep tryint to remind myself that most animals in the wild do this all the time without any help. However, my son's bedroom is far from the wild. Well, maybe not. There is atleast some human contact in there. He's been trying to research the birth before we came to the definate realization that Sabine was expecting. It would be nice if she could hold off until Monday, my older son's birthday, but we all know how that works.

I'm expecting it to be within the next couple of days. I'll try to get a picture of her on here.

Thanks, again, for the help.

jaclmickles
January 11th, 2008, 07:37 PM
That's what I've read about the gestation period. Today is the 63rd day we've had her. Is it possible that it's just a coincidence that the people wanted to get rid of her immediately after she got pregnant? It's just kinda odd to me. Maybe they saw her mating and wanted her gone ASAP, before anything could come of it. UGH! Some people... I did e-mail her today and asked what males she could have been around. No reply yet....

CearaQC
January 11th, 2008, 09:19 PM
Ok I feel a bit better now and more clear headed so I can type up some stuff.

Will try to keep this organized. LOL!

First of all, gather up helpers to support you. I didn't have much support from my husband because although he was happy to get Belle, he didn't like the fact that she was pregnant and sort of "punished" me by not helping. Plus other people that promised to help me with supplies and assistance never came through for me. They said towards the end they didn't want to help because then they'd get attached to the puppies and then be sad to see them go. I thought that was VERY selfish of those people, because it's not about people feelings, it's about the puppies! The puppies were more important than other people in my opinion because they were innocent and deserved to have all their needs met.

It was very very hard work doing it alone and I don't want you to go through that. Now that it's all done and the pups are gone, I am still glad I did it because I helped new life get started in the world. They didn't ask to be born, but I did my best to give them what I could.

1. Birthing spot

I didn't have one, but wish I did - a plastic kids pool. Beg, plead, borrow from someone if you don't have one. I had a cardboard box. That sucked. It was totally soaked from birthing fluids by the time it was all over. Also lots of newspaper. Basically anything that will absorb.

Lots and lots and lots of linens, towels, old t-shirts. Basically anything you don't care if it gets stained.

Room temperature I kept a little bit warmer than usual. Had it turned thermostat up to 25 C. Don't know what that is in F though.

2. Supplies

Unwaxed dental floss or cotton string, sterilized scissors. Use those only if the dam doesn't want to or know how to cut the umbilical cord.

Gloves if you want them. I did it all with clean bare hands because the mess didn't gross me out. Plus I didn't have to clean up the pups, but it's always good to have that kinda stuff on hand just in case.

Broth - lots of it. And fresh water.

Heat lamp if you think it's necessary. Don't know what kind of dwelling you live in or your climate. Just keep an eye on the room temp and don't let the pups get chilled.

Paper and pen/pencil to write down birthing times and pups to help you keep track of how long between each one.

Mop bucket, water, maybe bleach. Don't know what kind of floors you have. Be prepared to see a lot of vulva discharge after birthing is done. Belle leaked pretty steadily for a few days afterwards like a heavy period, which gradually went away and stopped approximately 2-3 weeks later. I forget the actual timeline but I followed her around with a water bucket to clean up any drippies. Slightly brown/green/bloody discharge should be normal and not smell sickening, although it will have a slight odor. If it's really dark and stinks to high heaven, go to vet immediately.

Baby bottles and replacement milk formula for puppies if the pups can't nurse for whatever reason or are not gaining weight regularly. If you can't find any milk replacements, there are some sorta decent recipes out there you can make with canned evaporated milk along with a couple other ingredients. The pet store puppy bottles aren't that great.

3. Set up the birthing area and show it to the dog. Keep an eye on her for any different activity. Belle stopped eating altogether about 24 hours before she gave birth and her temperature dropped. The websites out there will give the temperature info. Try to keep it relatively quiet. Low TV is OK.

The dog might turn around and look like she's either going to nip or check out her abdomen. She might lose the mucous plug. Can't miss that! lol It's a huge snot looking thing. Belle kept wanting to go outside over and over again like she wanted to potty. I thought she was constipated at first until I saw that mucous hanging from her vulva.

Then I took her to the box and she went bonkers ripping up the newspaper.

4. You will begin to see straining after a while and a bubble will appear out of her vulva which is the pup encased in a sac. Once the pup is out watch the dam and see if she rips the sac open and begins to clean the pup. If she doesn't after a couple of minutes and acts like WTF is that thing...then step in. I didn't have to do this because Belle was a real pro and took care of it before I could get a chance to help.

Sometimes the placenta comes with the pup, sometimes not. Keep a count on number of placentas and pups. Belle didn't deliver all her placentas the day of the birth and one came out the next day. I think that's normal but don't know for sure. You can't miss the placentas. They are greenish/blackish slimy bits of tissue. Some people say don't let the dam eat them all because it causes the runs, which is true. Belle got the runs but for the life of me I could not prevent her from eating them all. She was so darn fast and efficient. All I did was help dry the pups and guide them to nipples.

5. Pups should be born anywhere between 45 minutes to 2 hours apart. Belle's came usually right on the dot of 45-50 minutes apart like clockwork. I read that some dams will relax a couple of hours at around the halfway mark but I never saw that from Belle.

6. After the last pup is born, the dam will appear to relax at last and look like she wants to sleep.

7. Offer water and broth during delivery and afterwards. Belle took quite a lot and was very thirsty.

8. The dog's backside will be yucky. I used a washcloth just with some warm water to clean her up a bit the first day and then everyday after that. She seemed to appreciate feeling a bit cleaner. It's messy, I won't lie.

9. Try and get to see a vet after you think she's done birthing all the pups. I went the next day and took all the pups with me in a laundry basket lined with soft material and kept them warm. The vet will be able to help determine if all the pups are out and may or may not give a shot to expel any remaining placentas. Belle did not have a shot because the vet looked at her vulva discharge and determined he didn't have to. :shrug:

10. Keep an eye out for the pups, because some dogs will lay on their puppies and smother them, not on purpose of course. I slept right beside the whelping box on one of the couches for about 2 weeks and woke up at the slightest noise to make sure no pup was getting squished.

Well that's about all I can think of at this moment. The birthing part is really the easiest. Harder work comes later on with cleaning up puppy poop and pee. The mom dog will take care of that for a few weeks until they start going potty on their own.

I will try and keep an eye out on the forum. Do like I did and keep a running thread going for the birthing process. You'll have tons of support from the people here.

We will demand lots of pics and details on # of girls and boys and what they look like. :laughing:

Going for my bath now.. will check back here after and see if you have any more questions or if there was something I missed.

Oh... forgot to add. The dog may want to go outside for a potty break in between pups and to stretch her legs a bit. This is OK. Just carry a flashlight with you if it's dark out and make sure no pup got delivered outside. And be forewarned she may want to go pee but not have the energy to go outside. Belle took a few steps out of the whelping box a few times and just let a huge pee on the floor. The poor thing just didn't have the energy to do more and I know she felt terrible about doing that inside the house.

:grouphug:

BusterBoo
January 11th, 2008, 10:35 PM
Wow CearaQC.......I have never seen puppies being born, nor had to prepare for any animal giving birth and I just want to say you did a wonderful job outlining what to expect!!!! :thumbs up

Jaclmickles...if your rescue is expecting...GOOD LUCK and let us know how she does!!! :pray:

jaclmickles
January 12th, 2008, 06:20 PM
There hasn't been any changes. Sabine did, however, leave food in her bowl this morning. That's really unusual for her.

My husband is in denial. I asked if it was going to take puppies coming out to convince him. He still won't accept it. Poor thing. I'm sure he'll step up when I need him to.

I'll keep you updated.

jaclmickles
January 22nd, 2008, 09:16 PM
She's not pregnant!!!! :thumbs up:dog::D

I was starting to really worry. Got her to the vet and confirmed it was a false pregnancy.

I have never heard of a false pregnancy in dogs before. We've never had an unspayed female, so it was never an issue.

Now we just have to wait for her to get rid of this hormones and get her spayed. Then we won't have to deal with it again.

Our sons aren't happy there won't be puppies. They're still talking about puppies. Our 4 year old pointed to a picture of a momma nursing a line of puppies and said, "The girl just goes to sleep and the puppies come out." He would have been traumatized to see that's not what really happens. :)


Anyway, wanted to get you all updated.

Frenchy
January 22nd, 2008, 09:19 PM
She's not pregnant!!!! :thumbs up:dog::D



woohoo ! :highfive: I'm so happy to hear this ! :thumbs up

hazelrunpack
January 22nd, 2008, 09:48 PM
Two of our rescues came intact and went into heat before we were able to spay. Two months later, we had the same experience you did--false pregnancies. Ms Macie's was the most pronounced. She suddenly stopped eating one night around Christmas, started nesting and then began mothering a toy...took us a while to put two-and-two together since she'd been spayed shortly after the discharge of her heat cycle had stopped.

I asked the vet about it and was told that dogs' hormones cycle the same way after a heat whether or not the dog becomes pregnant. (That's why there isn't a 'rabbit' test for canine pregnancy--the hormones cycle even if the dog isn't pregnant.) So false pregnancies are not that uncommon, even if the dog is spayed after the heat cycle.

But you have to be so relieved! :highfive: Sabine will soon be back to her normal self and safely spayed! :dog: She's a lucky dog to have such a concerned Mummy! Good Mummy! Good Sabine! :D

Love4himies
January 23rd, 2008, 09:04 AM
She's not pregnant!!!! :thumbs up:dog::D

I was starting to really worry. Got her to the vet and confirmed it was a false pregnancy.

I have never heard of a false pregnancy in dogs before. We've never had an unspayed female, so it was never an issue.

Now we just have to wait for her to get rid of this hormones and get her spayed. Then we won't have to deal with it again.

Our sons aren't happy there won't be puppies. They're still talking about puppies. Our 4 year old pointed to a picture of a momma nursing a line of puppies and said, "The girl just goes to sleep and the puppies come out." He would have been traumatized to see that's not what really happens. :)


Anyway, wanted to get you all updated.

Glad to hear she is not pregnant, don't need anymore unwanted dogs. But if you still want your sons to experience puppies could you contact some local shelters/rescues to see if there is a pregnant/new momma you could foster??