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shih tzu gestation???

tiko
June 8th, 2004, 02:46 PM
does anyone know if the gestation for all dogs is the same. I know that for st. bernards it is 61-63 days. would my shih tzu be the same?? thanking you in advance :o

Lucky Rescue
June 8th, 2004, 02:49 PM
Is your dog pregnant? If not, I suggest you do not breed until your dog has earned a championship in the show ring, has been tested and cleared of ALL genetic defects common in the breed (do you know what they are?) and you find out a LOT more about the subject.
Someone who does not know even the gestation period should not be breeding.

Karin
June 8th, 2004, 02:52 PM
63 days. Parturition is imminent within 24 hours if the rectal temperature falls below 100 degrees .

Karin
June 8th, 2004, 02:54 PM
Also what LR said....

(trying to beat the storms brewing in the area)

tiko
June 8th, 2004, 03:00 PM
being a responsible pet owner is first and foremost in my mind. therefore she has not been bred yet. it wasn't very nice to jump down my throat though. :eek: this being my first time on this forum, i realize that you must only think that championship dogs make good pets. i have looked in to genetic defects and have had my dog thouroughly checked out at my vet. clinic. when i did, i would have asked about gestation but i wasn't planning on getting her bred. i still don't. it was just a question but i do not plan on asking any more in this forum.

Princesss04
June 8th, 2004, 03:03 PM
Do not leave because of that she was not jumping down your throat. She is just concerned she is not one that will jump down your throat. :D Do not be upset!

Karin
June 8th, 2004, 03:06 PM
Being a responsible pet owner includes spaying & neutering....doh!

tiko
June 8th, 2004, 03:09 PM
she is only 12 weeks old. do you know of any vets that will spay at that age :confused:

Karin
June 8th, 2004, 03:14 PM
she is only 12 weeks old. do you know of any vets that will spay at that age :confused:

Rule of thumb is 3 pounds and up or if a small breed 6 months of age regardless of weight.

Lucky Rescue
June 8th, 2004, 04:08 PM
I"m sorry if you think I'm "jumping down your throat". When you ask what your dog's gestation period would be, don't you think it's only natural for people to believe you are going to breed her? Why else would anyone ask that?

We get many irresponsible and careless breeders here, and with the shelters and rescues packed, I'm afraid they are not looked upon very kindly, especially since many of us end up with the dumped puppies/kittens.

And no one - least of all me - thinks only champions should be pets. I never said ANY such thing. BUT if someone is breeding, they should be breeding ONLY to improve the breed, and not for fun, hobby, profit or any other reason. The only way to improve the breed is to breed only outstanding members of that specific breed.

glasslass
June 8th, 2004, 04:21 PM
I'm definitely not defending or advocating backyard breeding, but do have to comment on something I've felt for some time. Some of the results of the "professional" breeders are NOT improving the breed. I hate to see the poor bulldogs, pekinese, persian cats, etc. that have respiratory problems because the breeders keep trying to develop the pushed in face. Why are they doing this?

Luba
June 8th, 2004, 04:56 PM
MONEY and GREED is the answer to that question!


I'm curious as to why the o.p would want to know gestation period for her dog then ask when she can spay it?

Fishy fishy to me!

YET being the key word here:
being a responsible pet owner is first and foremost in my mind. therefore she has not been bred yet

tiko
June 8th, 2004, 08:10 PM
i was being sarcastic when i asked if the o.p knew of any vets that would spay at 12 weeks. i don't. the reason she isn't spayed is because of her age. Now that i have a shi tzu i want to find out all about the breed. take this however you'd like. i "rescued" this dog from a local humane society so i know hardly anything about this breed. judgemental people have soured me to this website. talk about harsh. yeeesh! :eek:

Luba
June 8th, 2004, 08:16 PM
Sorry but look at it from an outside perspective....

what if you had a daugher who came up to you and said, how many months would I be pregnant for if I were to have a kid?

What would you think? It's the same thing!

The Humane society rescued the pup, you adopted it. You would rescue it if they were going to have the pup PTS which they normally don't do with these pups they are placed very quickly.

However, a rough start to your begining on the board, I truly hope you have no plans to breed this pup.

:D
Welcome

Jm836
June 25th, 2004, 03:00 AM
Lucky Rescue :eek: obviously has her head so far up her champion dog's butt that she's incapable of giving reasonable advice or of showing common courtesy to a new member. How anyone so stuck up could ever become a moderator says volumes about the worthless nature of this bulletin board.

Hopefully, this post will be sufficiently offensive to the elitist, condescending administrators of this board to terminate my membership, I won't be returning.

melanie
June 25th, 2004, 04:12 AM
tiko, firstly i totally understand your interest in the breed, it was only last week i rang my vet to find out how long a dog is pregnant for, i have a very desexed dog but i still have an interest and i was discussing animal pregnancies with a friend, i dont know about such subjects so i just wanted to be informed, maybe that is what is going on here it was a simple question.
now the reason i feel lucky rescue asked about your breeding and show stuff is that she was implying that you need to know you have a healthy dog, that is trainable and no behaviour problems.
that is my opinion and i hope i was correct, i prefer to think the best of intentions before assuming the worst or until proven otherwise..

Quote-'the worthless nature of this bulletin board' JM836 i note you are new here, how sad for you. this is a lovely board with some fantastic characters and loads of advice about animals for the caring owner, i for one have learnt alot here in the past year or so. it is sad that you are so closed minded, with a teeny tiny brain, judgemental and a complete moron, oh and to hazard a guess i bet your a total redneck and a bit of a tool too, well you certainly come across as one. :mad: but apparently you have difficulty reading posts, you missed luckies secound one, but you just read what you want and hopefully you will do it elsewhere.. if only you knew the work lucky does for animals in this world, oh but thats right, you read two sentences she wrote and can judge her. if there were more people like lucky in the world maybe our animal problems wouldnt be so bad.
please feel free to hit the log out button above in the right top of your screen, then you never have to log on again and bore us with your presence and the tripe you consider valid thought.
i wonder if this is one of our previous trolls, trying to stir, ha, if it is, good try fool.

Lucky Rescue
June 25th, 2004, 10:52 AM
Lucky Rescue obviously has her head so far up her champion dog's butt

It's funny the ASSumptions people make, isn't it? :p

My dog is an untitled, unpapered SPAYED rescue who came from the streets after being dumped there. And even if she had titles and championships, I wouldn't breed her, for the same reason most people should not breed their dogs. All of my animals are RESCUES - nary a champion among them.

Um, it has nothing to do with being "elitist". It has to do with the fact that MILLIONS of dogs are being killed every year in the US and Canada, because there are TOO many of them. Why are there too many of them? Because people like this are breeding them irresponsibly.

There are 100,000 dogs listed on Petfinder. People who breed their dogs because they like puppies, or because their friends want one, because they want to make a few bucks, or because they are too irresponsible to get their dogs spay are contributing to the slaughter taking place.

Is that a little clearer? :D

Luba
June 25th, 2004, 11:43 AM
Whiney cry babies that know nothing about what they speak about yet have no trouble complaining about things instead of fixing them.

Hey LR how's Chloe's butt, I hear she has a cute one ;)

Lucky Rescue
June 25th, 2004, 11:59 AM
Chloe's untitled, unregistered little butt is adorable! Looks very cute swinging back and forth as she trots ahead of me. :D

Jm836
June 26th, 2004, 01:36 PM
I apologize for stirring up a hornets nest here. It was late and I reacted in anger to a condescending clique upbraiding a new member who just asked a simple question. Can't someone learn a little something about their breed without being given the third degree about polluting the planet with unwanted pets?
Tiko was more than courteous, trying to come back and explain, even asking more questions but this brood of vipers wouldn't let it go.

Call me closed-minded & judgemental(sic)(I prefer discerning) if you like, but I can spot condescension a mile off. LR was totally condescending, without cause, to a new member and as a "moderator" she should know better. Karin was the true moderator here, providing the information requested while holding the "party line" with courtesy.

Lucky Rescue
June 26th, 2004, 05:39 PM
Can you please quote what I said that was "condescending"? I would appreciate knowing.

I just came back from a pet fair, which was packed with beautiful cats and dogs, kittens and puppies -(we ourselves had a whole litter of purebred Manx kittens dumped) all homeless and most with terrible stories.

I'm sorry if you think people should breed animals on a whim. I just don't agree.

Karin
June 26th, 2004, 08:58 PM
I apologize for stirring up a hornets nest here. It was late and I reacted in anger to a condescending clique upbraiding a new member who just asked a simple question. Can't someone learn a little something about their breed without being given the third degree about polluting the planet with unwanted pets?
Tiko was more than courteous, trying to come back and explain, even asking more questions but this brood of vipers wouldn't let it go.

Call me closed-minded & judgemental(sic)(I prefer discerning) if you like, but I can spot condescension a mile off. LR was totally condescending, without cause, to a new member and as a "moderator" she should know better. Karin was the true moderator here, providing the information requested while holding the "party line" with courtesy.

No, you are wrong. LuckyRescue is the TRUE moderator. I posted on a good day. I have a short fuse when stupidity rears it's ugly head. I did not post further because of my time schedule. Other wise you would have felt my 'rath" ..so to speak. *kicks own butt for not responding*

Oh, and with that apology you should Thank her also for her devotion, not only to this board, but to what she lives and breathes every day...rescueing unwanted pets and the betterment for all.

I bow to her graciously.....



I believe an apology is due to LR.

Jm836
June 26th, 2004, 10:01 PM
I'm sorry if you think people should breed animals on a whim. I just don't agree.

This thread was never about breeding animals on a whim and neither of my posts addressed that issue. You and the brood created that strawman in your posts.

meowzart
June 26th, 2004, 11:03 PM
I think it would be helpful to remember, that a lot of people come to ask a question or ask for help. Just because a lot of us may have a lot of experience with animals, and have learned many things along the way about positive ways of dealing with things, doesn't mean we should expect everyone else to know them.
It would be most helpful to answer the questions without assuming people are doing something wrong. And if they perhaps aren't handling something the best way, not to assume that they are idiots or morons or uncaring - they just may not KNOW any different! We all have to learn and we can all learn something from each other if we just listen. People can only learn if they ask questions and shouldn't be punished for asking.
It's our chance to educate them - and we could do so in a humane way I think... :D I will admit some people have to be hit over the head with a hammer (figuratively speaking) before they get it, but most people just are looking for good information.
Let's practice positive people training... :)
Just my 2 cents worth

Luba
June 27th, 2004, 12:14 AM
So what do you suggest when we give our advise and get 'barked' at for it hmmm? What do you suggest when we educate on BYB's and people still think it's okay and we're attacking them because we know different.
What do you suggest when we give advise and stats on spay/neutering and the thousands of pets PTS each year because of being dumped/stray/abandoned/not altered...then have our information challenged and been told that we're 'picking' on someone.

What about the ones that won't take their loving dog/cat/bird/other to the vet and it's in pain, suffering some unknown illness...but hey they don't have the money, have to work, can't get a ride there. We offer suggestions, improvise...borrow money etc... and yet again we get attacked because hey you know we all must be rich and never have to scrimp and save to care for our pets.

:confused:

Jm836
June 27th, 2004, 12:20 AM
I think it would be helpful to remember, that a lot of people come to ask a question or ask for help. Just because a lot of us may have a lot of experience with animals, and have learned many things along the way about positive ways of dealing with things, doesn't mean we should expect everyone else to know them.
It would be most helpful to answer the questions without assuming people are doing something wrong. And if they perhaps aren't handling something the best way, not to assume that they are idiots or morons or uncaring - they just may not KNOW any different! We all have to learn and we can all learn something from each other if we just listen. People can only learn if they ask questions and shouldn't be punished for asking.
It's our chance to educate them - and we could do so in a humane way I think... :D I will admit some people have to be hit over the head with a hammer (figuratively speaking) before they get it, but most people just are looking for good information.
Let's practice positive people training... :)
Just my 2 cents worth

Thank You! That's exactly what I would have said... if I'd dialed back the righteous indignation about 300 degrees :cool:

Lucky Rescue
June 27th, 2004, 12:27 AM
Karin, thank you so much for the kind words.They are much appreciated.:)

Luba
June 27th, 2004, 12:28 AM
Hey LR Moderate me baby!!! LOL :p

Lucky Rescue
June 27th, 2004, 12:32 AM
I would Luba, but I'm still trying to figure out what I said that was condescending, and not merely factual. :confused:

Luba
June 27th, 2004, 12:40 AM
I wonder what would happen if I started a thread titled:

Collie gestation period

I have a female collie pup who is just over 6 months old and not spayed yet. I am wondering what the gestation period is....not that I plan to breed her or anything. I'm just curious! ;)

meowzart
June 27th, 2004, 12:48 PM
Well - here I am I offered some advice and y'all are attacking me?? Sheesh.
Step back a bit here folks. There was nothing righteous, indignant, or condescending in my mind or intent.

I'm merely try to say that we have a chance to educate people here and we can't do it if we attack them right off.

At least START with a premise that they are just asking a question and not a moron. If they later prove themselves to be morons - well at least you tried.

I'm certainly not talking about this post in particular.

So what do you suggest when we give our advise and get 'barked' at for it hmmm? What do you suggest when we educate on BYB's and people still think it's okay and we're attacking them because we know different.

I'm not suggesting that you don't try and educate people. If they don't agree - what can you do? You tried.

What do you suggest when we give advise and stats on spay/neutering and the thousands of pets PTS each year because of being dumped/stray/abandoned/not altered...then have our information challenged and been told that we're 'picking' on someone.

I'd suggest that they are whiners??? :)

What about the ones that won't take their loving dog/cat/bird/other to the vet and it's in pain, suffering some unknown illness...but hey they don't have the money, have to work, can't get a ride there. We offer suggestions, improvise...borrow money etc... and yet again we get attacked because hey you know we all must be rich and never have to scrimp and save to care for our pets.

You tried...if you try to educate people and they are insisting on being obtuse about it - then I'd say go for it with both barrels.

wonder what would happen if I started a thread titled:Collie gestation period have a female collie pup who is just over 6 months old and not spayed yet. I am wondering what the gestation period is....not that I plan to breed her or anything. I'm just curious!

Well maybe a less threatening way to start off would be.
"Hi. Collie gestation is xyz. Are you planning to breed your collie?"

There you can start a dialogue with the person and you have a hope of educating them, and have them stay around, instead of making them feel like an idiot - which is what happened here.

Do you see the difference? That's all I'm trying to point out.

Lucky Rescue
June 27th, 2004, 01:09 PM
Yes, meowzart (cute name BTW) I do see what you are saying,absolutely!

Maybe I was jumping to conclusions, but to me, if someone says they have a female dog and then ask what the gestation period would be for her, I just assume they are planning to breed her, because I cannot imagine another reason for asking this. I guess I shouldn't have made that assumption in case their was another reason for wanting to know the gestation period, even though this person went on to say therefore she has not been bred yet

And if someone is planning to breed their untitled and unhealth tested pet (and very few animals are truly breeding quality) and does not know the most basic information about it, they shouldn't breed.

Yesterday at our adoption fair, we had a whole litter of purebred Manx kittens. I'm sure they were bred deliberately, and then dumped. And I'm reasonably sure the "breeders" would have become angry if they were told NOT to breed their cats. So yes, I do get upset at people who breed, or are thinking of breeding, irresponsibly.

Looking at these pitiful kittens in their cage, crying, frightened and confused by all the noise, I became extremely angry myself.:(

Maybe I should just post the link outlining what responsible breeding is from now on, when people come here asking "Is my cat pregnant" or "my 1 yr old dog is pregnant", etc etc. They can argue with whoever wrote the article that THEIR dog/or cat is so cute and sweet that it should be bred, and that THEIR puppies/kittens will never end up homeless.

Luba
June 27th, 2004, 01:58 PM
Meowzart (nice name) lol
All the quotes that you have copied of mine are direct examples of situations that occur on here on a regular basis.

I don't feel that I presume any more then what the poster is telling me. Hey if they leave something out of the post we can't read their minds. If they want us to be truthful with our opinions, thats what you'll get :D AND to boot...we even try to coax info out of many people that don't want to provide it.

It's hard to provide advise when you have only part the picture. It's like a pizza with only the crust and no toppings!

Bill & Bob
June 27th, 2004, 02:01 PM
Ya know, that might not be a bad idea at all. On the hockey boards I was surfing for a while, when someone would post something that's been dealt with a billion times already or has the potential to stir up crap the mods would just make quick mention of the error of their ways and add a link that describes the issues being addressed or not addressed.
That might take some of the negative emotions out of the thread and might not come across as reactionary. Believe me, I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't be p'd off when someone wants to breed their animal or do something else equally stupid, but at least this way we might not end up expending so much energy trying to convince someone who doesn't want to be convinced.
Just a thought...
Oh, now I mentioned hockey and I'm missing it again. Stupid brain.

meowzart
June 27th, 2004, 05:30 PM
Don't get me wrong - I agree with everything you guys are saying - I despise BYB's and I hate that there are so many irresponsible owners that don't spay and neuter -I'd like to smack them. :p All that stuff. Just wondering if perhaps we can entice them into dialogue without making them mad. I don't know - you guys have been here longer and have seen the same questions over and over I'm sure. And you're right I assumed the same thing about this initial post, and agree with what was posted advocating NOT breeding pets. Just wondering if we can maintain dialogue - we have a chance to educate.

I'm dead set against declawing - but when the person came on asking about it - I didn't slam HER - I just gave my own observations and knowledge about declawing. NOT that I'm always level headed either - I get mad at people and tell them off too. I know that many of you are very emotionally invested in this work and I applaude you for that. Just remember that MOST people don't have your perspective (yet!) :) or experience to draw from - that's all.

Luba
June 27th, 2004, 05:45 PM
Meow but what you're missing is that people in many cases ask for advise then don't like the advise we give!

jenjen
June 27th, 2004, 06:02 PM
I wanted to make a comment on the breeding topic.

If every one stopped breeding, the other furry little creatures in this world might have a chance a getting a good home. I agree with Lucky on this one. There are far too many animals in this world that need good homes so therefor there is really no need for breeding. I understand that people want babies, whether it be a dog or a cat or whatever else, but they don't stay babies forever. They grow up to be the wonderful animals that we all love, regardless of thier age. I would much rather give a 5,6 7, 8 year old animal a chance, that has been dissapointed by man kind then find a breeder to get me a "young pup". I did post a note saying that I had kittens that needed a home, but again that was not my decision. I found my cat on the streets when it was -30 outside and I took her in. She was pregnant, the damage was done but you can be sure if i would have caugth her sooner I would have paid to get her spayed. The kittens are now eating solid foods and my mouse has an appointment on friday to be spayed. (all of me other cats are spayed too)
It would be no different than a disfunctional women who kept having children and giving them up for adoption. What nasty comments would you make about her?
Instead of creating more problems, lets try and fix the ones we already have.
Cheers to the people that understand the need to adopt rescue animals as apposed to finding breeders!!

meowzart
June 27th, 2004, 07:07 PM
Meow but what you're missing is that people in many cases ask for advise then don't like the advise we give!
I'm not missing that at all :confused:

Karin
June 27th, 2004, 07:28 PM
And some are just looking for a quick internet fix to a problem that just might cost them some money.

These really tick me off! No emotions, very dry and woe is me, I have this________(insert species here). It has been very sick for______(insert time frame here). I am very worried about________(insert name here, for good gesture). I cannot afford a vet bill. Please help me!!!

Geez! I left my crystal ball in another suit case and no, I am not related to Donald Trump.





*note to self: chill.

Luba
June 27th, 2004, 08:02 PM
Just wondering if we can maintain dialogue - we have a chance to educate

I don't understand where we haven't tried to educate?

Seriously, I know you're words are paved with good intentions and thats wonderful.