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Raw for cats

chico2
January 7th, 2008, 05:01 PM
Lately I've been giving Vinnie and Rocky pieces of raw meat as I am prepering dinner.
They actually go wild over it,Chico won't touch it.
But I am seriously considering feeding Rocky and Vinnie raw,at least once a day.
However I would not even begin to think of preparing it myself,those patties I have read about,are they also available for cats??
If so,in what store?
I saw it in Pet Smart,but it was only for dogs:yell:
Any help appreciated!

phoozles
January 7th, 2008, 05:13 PM
Chico2, I've seen some of the preprepared raw meals for cats - and if I can find them in my boonie town, you'll probably have no problem getting them in Oakville! :D

They come frozen, and you might be able to find them in PetValu - We've got a place called "Pet Food Warehouse" here that has them available. :shrug:

chico2
January 7th, 2008, 05:33 PM
phoozels,our local Pet Value does not have it,I've checked,but maybe another Pet-Smart,if they have it for dogs,they should have it for cats,you think.
I am going to call around tomorrow,what do I call it,just patties for cats?
Got to go and feed my "starving"kitties,I'll check in again tomorrow morning...

phoozles
January 7th, 2008, 05:49 PM
Yeah, they could have it at a different Pet Smart - we don't have one around here, but if they have them for dogs... :shrug:

I would just ask for prepackaged raw - see if they have a freezer section - they should know what you're talking about :) The actual name of it is on the tip of my tongue, but I can't think of it.. Nature's something.. ? :rolleyes: It'll come to me in the middle of the night, I'm sure :laughing:

sugarcatmom
January 7th, 2008, 05:56 PM
Probably the most widely available brand would be Nature's Variety (http://www.naturesvariety.com/content.lasso?r=1649287&page=1507&-session=naturesvariety:D1521A84029d428451Ulp19B873 3) frozen medallions. They have a store locator on their website somewhere that I think even lists which stores carry the raw (some may just carry the kibble or canned). I'm at work right now but I have a link at home that lists many regional raw distributors for various parts of Canada which might also be helpful.

Just a word of caution - not all of the prepackaged raw is created equal. Many have way too many vegetables added (shouldn't be more than 5-10%), and if it's going to be a regular part of their diet, you have to make sure that it contains bones and organs (not all do). You might also want to add a touch of taurine to it once it's thawed because there's some concern that taurine is affected by freezing (you can get taurine capsules at any health food store).

waste of paint
January 7th, 2008, 06:05 PM
When I first started feeding raw, I looked into prepared frozen meals. If I remember right they were about $3 each. In comparison, it costs me about $15 a month to feed Tommy organic chicken, turkey, fish, eggs, and the occasional fruit or veggie as a treat. I know that you said you didn't want to prepare it yourself, but it's worth considering if cost is an issue at all (plus it only takes me about 20 minutes to fix up a bird and freeze it in meal-sized portions every couple of weeks). Good luck in any case! :)

SARAH
January 7th, 2008, 06:34 PM
I keep part of the raw ground meat we use ourselves, freeze it in cat-sized portions and give them daily.

They start the day with the canned food (the carts that is), then have kibbles available all day with plenty of water and milk - even if tghe milk most often turns to yogurt - and then I give them the raw as I prepare our supper.

Still, making patties for them from raw meat and eggs sounds like a good idea! Next time I get chicken breasts, I'll mix one of them up for the cats, or maybe two even!

want4rain
January 7th, 2008, 07:53 PM
breast on the bone with the skin though. the first mistake folks make feeding raw is disregarding calcium.

Chico2, it is considerably considerably more expensive to feed prepared raw than it is to make it yourself. it can cost you $3 for a single medallion(is that a whole meal??) of raw prepared food. where as i can get a 4lb chicken at $0.77 a pound and the cats will eat about a pound, little less. even getting breast on the bone and wacking it in half is just about as easy and way cheaper!!

-ashley

clm
January 7th, 2008, 09:07 PM
W4R can you grind up the chicken breast bone and all and freeze your own kitty portions or keep them in the fridge if planning on using them within a few days? I would have a problem giving the cats or dogs bones unless they were ground up.
Chico2, Rens sells frozen food, but I've never checked to see what they have, if I were to go raw it would be my own preparation, like W4R said, cost would be prohibitive to buy individual portions I would think.

Cindy

want4rain
January 7th, 2008, 09:52 PM
breast bones would be the easiest by far to grind up, the skin gives me a little trouble cutting up though. as for keeping it in the fridge, yes. i keep mine for no longer than 3 days though. we have one cat who is really picky abotu how fresh his chicken is. the dog on the other hand loves his a little old... :yuck:

grinding it up would probably reeally help with putting in things they dont like. if you grind it up and also add in what liver and eggs they need i doubt they would give any hassle in eating it. i would go for grinding the bone up and leaving as much of the breast meat whole as possible. the benefits of them chewing their meat apart is unbeatable.

sugarcatmom, do you have any sources for the taurine concern?? i was under the impression that all raw meat had taurine so it wasnt a concern as long as you added heart and gizzard???? if it seems like a valid concern, id like to start supplementing taurine.

another good good source of natural taurine is clams and muscles. INSANE amounts of taurine compared to just plain muscle meat.

-ashley

sugarcatmom
January 7th, 2008, 09:52 PM
it can cost you $3 for a single medallion(is that a whole meal??) of raw prepared food.

Wow, I'm not paying nearly that much for premade raw! I can get 6oz servings from a local supplier that are good for at least 2-3 meals and cost around $2. Actually works out to be cheaper than many of the canned foods I feed.

where as i can get a 4lb chicken at $0.77 a pound and the cats will eat about a pound, little less. even getting breast on the bone and wacking it in half is just about as easy and way cheaper!!

-ashley

The thing is, not all cats are going to go for eating big ol' chunks of meat and bones and organs, especially older kitties that are rather set in their ways. I'm with Chico on just buying the premade stuff, for a couple reasons: fussy cat likes his meat finely ground (I'm just thankful he eats raw at all!), and since both my husband and I are vegetarians, getting a meat grinder isn't an option (I'm not so squeamish about it, but hubby would freak). Price is not the issue for me, and everyone has their own comfort level. If I should ever be in the position where I can start a cat off right, I'd feed a raw whole prey model, but that's just not practical for me and my old dude at the moment.

Anyway, here's a link with a ton of other links to raw food providers, just scroll down to Ontario in the "List of Meat Suppliers" section: http://lepusreg.tripod.com/NRS1a.html

want4rain
January 7th, 2008, 09:56 PM
girlums... i still get the heebie jeebies over cutting up meat!!! i wish we could afford premade LOL!!! it took a inordinate amount of frustration and time to get our one cat to eat the whole meat and all. with the kind of frustration we had with this, i totally dont blame folks if they dont push that little bit more, especially cats who dont have dental problems, which is really the only reason you woudl want your cat ripping the meat apart. :yuck:

-ashley

clm
January 7th, 2008, 10:58 PM
Well, I might just have to try grinding some this weekend and see what the girls think. I wish rabbit was less expensive. My big outdoor guy loves to catch and eat bunnies :cry: Good for the plants in the garden that he keeps their population in check, not so good for the bunnies. Definate lack of skin on the dressed ones you get at the grocery store, but it would be a meat type, like chicken that I think they would like. My cats all like liver, although they've never had it raw, so I could add some chicken livers into the grind mixture.
Now I have to go hunt around the basement for that meat grinder I know I had....haven't seen it for years. :laughing: I hope it's still around somewhere.

Cindy

sugarcatmom
January 7th, 2008, 11:06 PM
sugarcatmom, do you have any sources for the taurine concern??

The only reference I can come up with at the moment is this one from http://www.catnutrition.org/recipes.php

NOTE: If you will not be using the food immediately and freezing for more than a week or two, toss in 4000 mg of additional Taurine to make up for what may get lost during storage. It is also not a bad idea to sprinkle extra Taurine from a capsule on the food as you're serving it two or three times a week, just to be certain your cat is getting plenty of this critical amino acid.

Other than that I'd have to quote from more experienced raw feeders than I that belong to a cat health yahoo group, but the general consensus there is that you can't go wrong with a little extra Taurine "insurance". Effects of too little can be serious, whereas too much isn't an issue. I think it's recommended that an extra 100mg/day be added to thawed food. If you're feeding fresh "whole prey", it probably isn't as necessary.

List
January 7th, 2008, 11:32 PM
Actually just this week I've started feeding all three cats raw ( well one meal a day).
I've decided to start with the Nature's Variety medallions. So far so good. Gracie and Finn go nuts for them and Turk needs a small scoop of wet to get him started. But otherwise its seems to be going well. :)
Right now they're getting raw in the morning and wet with a little bit of Orijen kibble at night.

I'm in Oakville as well, and they carry the raw medallions at Ryan's Pet food on 8th Line and Upper Middle and I believe they also carry it at Canadian Pet Connection (3rd and Upper Middle or Cornwall and Trafalger)

Good luck!

Love4himies
January 8th, 2008, 09:02 AM
Nature's Variety offers a sample pack of raw, make sure it distinctly states feline, canine adds much too much veggies. Think it is about $

Pawsitively Raw is cheaper than Nature's Variety and offers a turkey, chicken, and salmon ($2.29-2.89 per pack) for felines only. No veggies added. That is what I was supplementing with my foster kittens and they have the softest fur and best muscle tone I have ever seen on kittens. It is a small company in the TO area that makes it. Here is the link if you want to contact the company:

http://www.paws-itivelyrawfoods.com/

good luck!

I can get both at Global Foods.

chico2
January 8th, 2008, 09:10 AM
WOW,thank you everyone:thumbs up
List,I've been a regular customer at Ren's for 12yrs,for birdstuff,squirrelstuff,catstuff,even got Rocky from an employee there...I've never seen a freezer with raw.:confused:
I've only lately stopped going,the store is just not the same since the son took over.

clm,I think grinding meat would be my last option,I too have an oldfashioned meat grinder somewhere in the basement.
I will look in to the patties,my cats at the moment share 1 small can twice/daily so a pattie might be more than enough:confused:

Sugarcatmom,I still have a problem with Rockys loose poop,the Slippery Elm,did not stop it,I am thinking there might be another problem.
He is going to the vet again on tuesday(next)the only time the vet I am ok with,is in the clinic.
He has lost another 1/2 lb,although he eats like a fiend,he plays like a kitten,drinks well,sleeps well,eats all he can get,so I am at a loss:sad:
I'll hold off with changing to raw,until I get some answers about Rocky,in the meantime I'll give them bits and pieces of ours.

Also,my cats would not know what to do with whole pices of meat,the pieces have to be really small for them to eat and Chico will be a problem,he looks disgusted every time I offer him anything raw:cat:
But I will definetly get some patties and start Vinnie and Rocky slowly,hoping Vinnie will lose some weight.
Thank's everyone!! You are all great!!!

chico2
January 8th, 2008, 09:17 AM
L4H,I will check out Global Foods,since the owner was nice enough to order me Chicken Soup:thumbs up

List,sorry I thought you mentioned Ren's,rereading it I see you did not:wall:
I am really close to Canadian Pet Connection..
It would be great if I could buy samples:thumbs up

growler~GateKeeper
January 9th, 2008, 10:48 PM
Sugarcatmom,I still have a problem with Rockys loose poop,the Slippery Elm,did not stop it,I am thinking there might be another problem.
He is going to the vet again on tuesday(next)the only time the vet I am ok with,is in the clinic.
He has lost another 1/2 lb,although he eats like a fiend,he plays like a kitten,drinks well,sleeps well,eats all he can get,so I am at a loss:sad:
I'll hold off with changing to raw,until I get some answers about Rocky,in the meantime I'll give them bits and pieces of ours.

Chico try adding PB8 capsules (http://www.nutritionnow.com/PB8.htm) to Rocky's canned, open & mix into food - it is yogurt based so the taste is not unappealing. Duffy has never had loose poop issues but it is prescribed by her homeopath to replace the good natural gut flora & helps with sensitive tummy issues. I give Duffy 1 capsule twice per day (1 in breakfast, 1 in dinner).

chico2
January 10th, 2008, 08:35 AM
Growler thank's,I'll try that,it can't hurt,right:confused:
Is it available at the Health-Food store?
After the vet-visit tuesday,I'll introduce them slowly to raw.
I am certain the vet will push their food,so I am ready,she already knows how I feel though..

sugarcatmom
January 10th, 2008, 02:46 PM
Chico, sorry I didn't see your comment about the SEB not working. Growler's suggestion to use probiotics is a great one. If you can't find the ones she recommended, you might be able to get FortiFlora (http://www.southernagriculture.com/southag/product.asp?dept_id=226&pf_id=PAAAAADBKMIHMJDP&ad_id=nextag&key_id=15657_PurinaVetDietsFortiFloraFeline) from your vet (probably costs more though).

The other thing I've been meaning to mention is B12 injections. There's a protocol established by Texas A&M University for cats with gastrointestinal issues (usually IBD, but anytime there is chronic diarrhea), who are frequently deficient in B12: TAMU (http://www.cvm.tamu.edu/gilab/research/cobalamin.shtml). You might want to ask your vet about it (although don't be surprised if she's not familiar with it, many vets aren't). Testing to establish a deficiency can be expensive and isn't really necessary since excess B12 is just peed away. Wouldn't hurt to start with a couple of injections and see if there's any improvement. The premise is that B12 (cobalamin) is essential for the utilization of most other nutrients and that cats with diarrhea can't absorb enough B12 through their intestine, which often results in weight loss. The injections subvert the need for intestinal absorption. Anyway, might be worth a shot (no pun intended :D). You can always print out the above info for your vet to check out.

chico2
January 10th, 2008, 03:12 PM
SCM,thank you,I will show it to her,she however always gets a little peeved when I mention anything about the internet or our Forum:laughing:especially about food.
The SEB,made his poop a little firmer,but far from normal,but it was certainly worth a try.
I am just worried there is some underlying problem that causes his runny stool,it's not like he goes often,usually only once or twice a day,but it is a very light colour and loose.
He never had that problem before Tapazole and ate a variety of different foods,so I don't think it's his food.
I just took out a chicken-breast and will give them a few little pieces tonight as a treat.Thank's for all your help!!
After the vet,I'll check in to these patties and see how it works out,I don't expect the vet to agree with me,but we'll see.
Oh,I actually take pro-biotics(Acidophilus) myself(don't like yougurt)ever since the really bad infection I had after Rocky attacked me,the doc suggested I take it all the time.

sugarcatmom
January 10th, 2008, 05:52 PM
SCM,thank you,I will show it to her,she however always gets a little peeved when I mention anything about the internet or our Forum:laughing:especially about food.

Ahhh, that's too bad, although not terribly surprising. It seems that some vets tend to think they are "the keeper of the knowledge" and get a little defensive when their clients are proactive about their pet's care. I'm pretty lucky in that my vet loves the internet and even asks me to send her links on occasion.

I am just worried there is some underlying problem that causes his runny stool,it's not like he goes often,usually only once or twice a day,but it is a very light colour and loose.

Prolonged poop problems are always concerning. The light colour can be an indicator of liver issues, so make sure you get a full blood panel done on Tuesday.

He never had that problem before Tapazole and ate a variety of different foods,so I don't think it's his food.

That's interesting about the Tapazole. I wonder if you were to try it in transdermal gel form if it would be any different (Tapazole is one of the few meds that tends to be well absorbed through the skin).

Anyway, :fingerscr that Rocky's check-up sheds some light on the situation. Let us know what you find out!

growler~GateKeeper
January 11th, 2008, 01:26 AM
Growler thank's,I'll try that,it can't hurt,right:confused:
Is it available at the Health-Food store?
After the vet-visit tuesday,I'll introduce them slowly to raw.
I am certain the vet will push their food,so I am ready,she already knows how I feel though..

No it def can't hurt - it will replace the good gut flora & hopefully ease any tummy issues he may have, some cats will refuse certain foods because it upsets their stomachs. The raw food store where I buy Duffys' food from recommends to have you pet on probiotics for 2 weeks before starting raw, to ease their tummy into the transition.

I'm sure you can get it from any health food store - it is a human probiotic as well, Duffy is roughly 12 lbs & gets 1 in breakfast 1 in dinner.

Good luck :goodvibes: with the vet visit tuesday & Sugarcatmom is right please try to get a full geri-panel & UA, that way you can see how the Tapazole is working & if the dose needs adjustment.

chico2
January 11th, 2008, 08:39 AM
Thank's girls,I am going to ask for a full panel,she will be taking blood anyway,to check on the Tapazole level.
In the back of my mind I was thinking a liver-problem:sad:
I often read members having the testresult numbers,lets see what she says when I ask for them..

want4rain
January 11th, 2008, 11:45 AM
i meant to ask, other than its healthy, was there any other reason you wanted to add raw food to their diet??? were you planning on making it a strictly raw diet or just supplementing?? i think, if you are looking to supplementing, that going with the patties wouldnt be too terribly expensive and you would still have a huge benefit of adding a raw meal or two in would go a long way towards improving organ function by giving it a break from non meaty things. :) even if it was just a partial raw diet. that way you dont ahve any sort of pressure to feed them only raw. for some reason my fuzzies couldnt handle mixing kibble, raw and canned. i still dont know which one puked all over, nor which one it was that had the explodabutt.

-ashley

chico2
January 11th, 2008, 12:40 PM
W4R,I don't think I can go ALL raw,first Chico won't touch raw meat:yell:,so he would eat canned and dry.
If it goes over well with Rocky and Vinnie I would feed them raw once a day,right now they like little bits of raw,it might be different if it is their dinner,so I'll see.
I am all for anything that's healthier for them,as long as they eat it.

List
January 11th, 2008, 11:08 PM
All three of my cats have been getting raw for breakfast for the last week, and its been going great. Turk wasn't really sure about it at first, but now all the cats seem to love it. I've never seen Gracie and Finnigan eat so fast.
The Nature's Variety patties have been working well and and if you go to this link there is a coupon, http://naturesvariety.com/tryit/ , buy one get one free :thumbs up

growler~GateKeeper
January 12th, 2008, 02:27 AM
I often read members having the testresult numbers,lets see what she says when I ask for them..

Your vet should really have no problem letting you have a copy of the results. All you have to do is ask the receptionist to either mail you a copy when they come back from the lab or ask them to make a copy & you'll pick it up.

If you have email - you can also ask them to email you the results. They usually get the results emailed from the lab (@least here anyways) so it's no problem for the vet receptionist to forward a copy to you. That's how I got my last couple of test results.

You are also allowed to ask for a copy of the medical file too (human drs won't give to you but vets will) I did that with my :rip::dog: Cally - I have all 12 yrs

I have always gotten a copy of Duffy's lab results, it makes it easier to compare @ home when a new test is done, sometimes @ the vets there is so much info that it's easy to forget something. Or they don't fully explain everything :rolleyes:

More :goodvibes: for great results tues

CyberKitten
January 13th, 2008, 02:10 PM
(human drs won't give to you but vets will)

Growler, I know VERY few so called human doctors who will not give a patient his or her medical files. Their records belong to them. So, I do not know where you got that notion,. I have met a few patients who think like that and I suspect it may just be lack if understanding. I do not know. I do not hesitate to provide records when people ask. Some parents of my patients what the results a soon as I get them and my receptionist or office manager faxes them or gas then ready for them asap. So, please do not make assumptions about my profession. :) If you encountered a physician who refused to give you YOUR files, report him or her. Please don't just complain or assume we are all alike - do something about it.

My dad for example never leave his GP without his results! Of course at the moment, he has results galore. Things are not good but I;ll post that elsewhere (he's taken a turn for the worst - PLs do not ask here - this is Chico's place and I am sorry for digression!! :offtopic::sorry:)

Chico, I am still iffy about raw food but YY and the Spyhnx Girls love chicken hearts and sometimes I will cook them a human grade chicken . If course, I make their food now anyway - I am not inclined to the pet food industry just yet. Until they are more regulated and the food is human grade - or car grade in the same way as humans- I will keep doing it in conjunction with a veterinary nutritionist. My phone bills to her are atrocious but I don't care. This is my babies' lives here!

Maybe there is a meat market Chico where you can get some for that meat for a good price??? I am guessing if it is avail in Halifax , surely it must be where you live? :shrug:

Good luck!! I hope Chico will be OK!!! :pray:

chico2
January 13th, 2008, 04:57 PM
CK,it's not Chico,it's Rocky:laughing:
Yesterday I boiled a chicken-breast,cut it up in little pieces and gave them that instead of commercial treats,Rocky and Vinnie loved it Chico snubbed it,the way only a cat can:yell:
CK,I am going to try to get a sample of the raw cat-food and see how they do,nice and slow,but first I have to find out if Rockys diarreah(sp?)is from food or something more serious.
Going to the vet 9:30am Tuesday.