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I can't do this. The worst thing has happened.

ancientgirl
December 31st, 2007, 07:20 AM
What I've been fearing from the start of this has happened. Czarina attached Kiska.

She escaped from her enclosure last night just before we all went to bed. I managed to get her back behind the screen and thought I'd secured it enough.

At around 1:00 am, I woke up hearing a cat fight. When I saw that Vlad and Oksana were on the bed, my heart felt like it was going to come out of my chest. I ran downstairs and turned on the lights. Czarina scattered away and Kiska was next to Maks, trying to get up.

Her surgery wound had opened and she was bleeding. She also had a few deep scratches on her underside. Maks also had some scratches, but he seemed to be okay.

I wrapped Kiska in a towel and placed her and maks in Vlad's carrier. Thank goodness my vet is open for 24 hours.

She's going to be okay. I left her there so they could watch her but they told me she didn't receive any real damage. I brought Maks home with me.

When I got home, I heard hissing and growling again. Vlad had some scratches on his ear, so there had been another fight. When I went to try and calm Czarina down, she lunged at me. I managed to wait her out, and maneuver her back to the area I've been keeping her, and this time secured it by placing an old microwave in front of it.

I'm sorry, I can't do this. I feel like I want to die. I wanted so badly to help Czarina, I wanted so badly for this to work. But seeing what happened to little Kiska, my heart stopped beating.

If something really serious had happened to her or Maks, I would never have forgiven myself. I've put them in danger, and this has gone from a place they feel safe, to a place where they have to watch where they are going.

I feel like a failure and I feel physically ill right now. It took me several hours to calm Maks down. He was petrified to be taken out of the carrier. He even ran from Vlad and Oksana several times.

I emailed The Cat Network and will call this morning. I'm not going to put Czarina back out, but I can't keep her, not after what happened. I think she would do best in a home where there are no other cats.

I tried, I really did. I know I've disappointed some of you, but not as much as I've disappointed myself or my own cats. I've disrupted their lives, and one of them got hurt because of me.

14+kitties
December 31st, 2007, 07:39 AM
:grouphug: Nuria.... you have done all you could.
Maybe you can take her to the vet and see if she is microchipped. There is still a possibility that her owners are out there searching. If they went to the trouble to get her fixed.......... just a thought.
:grouphug: Don't feel bad.

Melinda
December 31st, 2007, 07:39 AM
:sorry:first of all, you DID NOT FAIL, you took the cat in off the streets, the fighting could be the reason she was put out of another home, and I agree she should be in a one cat house. There was no way you could know about that. I hope your little one is ok, and you do have to think of them first, a rescue may be able to locate a home without any other cats for her, you are an angel for taking her in and doing all that you did for her. Good luck with the search. Maybe a neighbour or friend would like to adopt her?

Winston
December 31st, 2007, 07:44 AM
What I've been fearing from the start of this has happened. Czarina attached Kiska.

She escaped from her enclosure last night just before we all went to bed. I managed to get her back behind the screen and thought I'd secured it enough.

At around 1:00 am, I woke up hearing a cat fight. When I saw that Vlad and Oksana were on the bed, my heart felt like it was going to come out of my chest. I ran downstairs and turned on the lights. Czarina scattered away and Kiska was next to Maks, trying to get up.

Her surgery wound had opened and she was bleeding. She also had a few deep scratches on her underside. Maks also had some scratches, but he seemed to be okay.

I wrapped Kiska in a towel and placed her and maks in Vlad's carrier. Thank goodness my vet is open for 24 hours.

She's going to be okay. I left her there so they could watch her but they told me she didn't receive any real damage. I brought Maks home with me.

When I got home, I heard hissing and growling again. Vlad had some scratches on his ear, so there had been another fight. When I went to try and calm Czarina down, she lunged at me. I managed to wait her out, and maneuver her back to the area I've been keeping her, and this time secured it by placing an old microwave in front of it.

I'm sorry, I can't do this. I feel like I want to die. I wanted so badly to help Czarina, I wanted so badly for this to work. But seeing what happened to little Kiska, my heart stopped beating.

If something really serious had happened to her or Maks, I would never have forgiven myself. I've put them in danger, and this has gone from a place they feel safe, to a place where they have to watch where they are going.

I feel like a failure and I feel physically ill right now. It took me several hours to calm Maks down. He was petrified to be taken out of the carrier. He even ran from Vlad and Oksana several times.

I emailed The Cat Network and will call this morning. I'm not going to put Czarina back out, but I can't keep her, not after what happened. I think she would do best in a home where there are no other cats.

I tried, I really did. I know I've disappointed some of you, but not as much as I've disappointed myself or my own cats. I've disrupted their lives, and one of them got hurt because of me.


Ancientgirl! You need to take one step at a time! I cannot imagine how you must have felt with poor Kiska....dont feel bad...You have five beautiful kitties all trying to get used to one another!!

First things first..it has been stressfull on all of them....They have all had medical stuff happening, new homes, new people..For Czarina she has had the most change! I dont want you to feel bad here! This is not your fault! You are being a angel for taking them all in..Now it takes time for them to all get used to one another!

You have to remember Vlad,Oksana,Kiska and Maks have never really been into having to defend themselves! Czarina has! so that in itself is a big adjustment..They have not lived her style of life...

When Czarina came at you it was likely a gut reaction to her fighting and you coming towards her! Fear ! becuase yoou have said that she purrs and rubs you so its not that she is afraid of you! but afraid of what happened!

I am not sure your ready to give up just yet! its only been a couple of days! What happens if you sit down in the middle of the floor with treats? Do you think they would all come to you?

Listen this must be hard on your nerves right about now but try to be calm because it wont be good for you or your little ones! they sense stuff?

How are you doing right now?

Cindy

14+kitties
December 31st, 2007, 07:45 AM
Until you can get the Network to pick her up can you close the bathroom door so she is in the room by herself? That way you don't have to worry about her getting out into the rest of the apartment. I know the space is probably small but it would be big enough for her.
You didn't fail at anything, mf. You have done more for her than most people would, or did!

14+kitties
December 31st, 2007, 07:55 AM
And Cindy........what terrific advice!!!!

ancientgirl
December 31st, 2007, 08:03 AM
How are you doing right now?

Cindy

I can't stop crying. I knew this wasn't going to be easy and I thougth I was prepared for that. I just didn't think any of my cats would get hurt.

I did try sitting with them all with treats, but Czarina was still defensive the entire time.

I know you're right. She most likely lunged because of what had happened. But now I'm afraid to touch her.

She's fine this morning, she's back in the little pyramid bed. I'm incredibly confused. All I can think about right now is my resident cats.

I want to help her, I want her to have a loving home. I just don't know if mine is the one she will be happy in.:sad:

Winston
December 31st, 2007, 08:10 AM
Ancientgirl! we need to sit back and think the setup through again! You need to have an area right now for Kiska for at least a week to heal from her spay! She is okay with the other three so an area where the 4 of them can hang out! You alsoo need an area where you can put Czarina for at least a week! she can come out of the area when you are there only! She'll need her food and water and litterbox in that area! Is there a way for you to seperate the apartment so there is not contact physically yet? maybe so they can just see each other through sight? I know it sounds like a long time but I dont think it has been enough time for everyone to settle!

Czarina needs more than a few days to realise she is not going outside again, not going to have to hunt, not fight etc etc..and that she has love and a home! that takes time...

Then I would spend some quality time with each group each day, getting your scent on you, moving the pyramid bed so that she doesnt become too used to hiding in it, change the toys up, even feeding near by maybe through the enclosure you have?

Do you think there is a way for you to set up your place so its totally seperate from one another?

Please dont cry! We are all here for you! it is so much easier to deal with if you stay strong! and calm...

Cindy

krdahmer
December 31st, 2007, 08:25 AM
I am so sorry for Kiska, and glad to hear she is ok. If you had the space, she should have been seperated too for a few days to keep her quiet and her incision safe.... but even if you had an ideal situation things like that could still happen. Czarina may be a little wilder than you thought and may have had to defend herself a lot outside. She got out of her enclosure but found that she was still stuck inside some strange place with new smells, and then ran into a strange cat... she no doubt was scared and reacted instinctually.

You do have to put the welfare of your fab four first... but don't give up on Czarina just yet. For now, keep her in the bathroom unless you can supervise (it may be small but it is safe), and there are a few more intro tricks you can try and also keep Kiska out of the intros until she is healed (put her in a safe area-bathroom while Czarina is out). And don't panick at every scratch... I know it's hard not to, but even I see a few on my kitties now and then, and they have been together now for years. And did the vet cut Czarina's claws?

Ok, the tricks, you can keep them seperated completely for a day, then try putting Czarina out, and your guys in her spot while she is out... leave them like that a good hour so Czarina can get in all their smells and they hers. Or use the carrier intro... put Czarina in a carrier and let yours investigate her, then do the same with yours and she can investigate. You can repeat that a few times. And then in a few days (or weeks even- if she is in that small space a week, but ultimately ends up fitting in better, it's worth it) try another supervised intro face to face. An intro with a feral cat can take a looooong time, especially if she has had scary dealings with other cats before.

And no one here will judge you for protecting the fab four.... if it doesn't work out at your house, I know you will try to do what is best for Czarina and find another home. No matter what, you are doing a good thing here, even if she doesn't stay with you. :grouphug:

Lise
December 31st, 2007, 08:26 AM
I know exactly how you feel.We fostered a horse awhile ago.He was in another paddock adjoining my gang so he wouldn't get lonely,but wouldn't upset my gang.After a few months we decided to offer him a home.We tried introducing him to Arabesque,who is the sweetest most gentle horse ever.New horse seriously attacked him,he had a ripped shoulder and few other bites.I think it hurt him more mentally,since the other horse got him down.I remember standing holding Essie while the vet checked,I felt like I had completely betrayed him.I had to inject him daily for a week with antibiotics,but he still came over every time I called him.Nobody I know had ever seen a gelding attack like that with no warning or provocation a horse he had been around for a few months.Things happen,but you owe it to your permanent guys to keep them safe and happy.The horse that we were fostering did find a home.

ancientgirl
December 31st, 2007, 08:30 AM
I've got her separated from them now in the hallway. The problem was she's been getting out at night. I have been putting her in the living room while I'm here, just to keep watch of them and let her get used to them.

When I go downstairs, I'll give it another try. I'll put her out and let the others get in her sight.

when Kiska was in heat, I tried to keep her in the upstairs bathroom, but that didn't work. The others were disrupted and kept peeing where they shouldn't.

I think where I have her is the best place right now. I just have to make sure its secure.

Winston
December 31st, 2007, 08:38 AM
If the hallway is where she is then that should work, just make sure it is secure even if you have to place something in front of the enclosure to make sure she cant push it open! While you do the intro's have a water bottle ready and sit there and just watch, if they hiss just say no! and keep on going! if they get vocal just try to keep them apart from one another and see how that goes! I honestly think it is just tense right now and things will get back to normal but it will take time..and it doesnt matter that you will be going back to work! really as long as the enclosure is secure things should work.

P.S Can I tell you your a wonderful person to have taken this on! and you will be rewarded one day!

Cindy

ancientgirl
December 31st, 2007, 09:06 AM
I am so sorry for Kiska, and glad to hear she is ok. If you had the space, she should have been seperated too for a few days to keep her quiet and her incision safe.... but even if you had an ideal situation things like that could still happen. Czarina may be a little wilder than you thought and may have had to defend herself a lot outside. She got out of her enclosure but found that she was still stuck inside some strange place with new smells, and then ran into a strange cat... she no doubt was scared and reacted instinctually.

You do have to put the welfare of your fab four first... but don't give up on Czarina just yet. For now, keep her in the bathroom unless you can supervise (it may be small but it is safe), and there are a few more intro tricks you can try and also keep Kiska out of the intros until she is healed (put her in a safe area-bathroom while Czarina is out). And don't panick at every scratch... I know it's hard not to, but even I see a few on my kitties now and then, and they have been together now for years. And did the vet cut Czarina's claws?

Ok, the tricks, you can keep them seperated completely for a day, then try putting Czarina out, and your guys in her spot while she is out... leave them like that a good hour so Czarina can get in all their smells and they hers. Or use the carrier intro... put Czarina in a carrier and let yours investigate her, then do the same with yours and she can investigate. You can repeat that a few times. And then in a few days (or weeks even- if she is in that small space a week, but ultimately ends up fitting in better, it's worth it) try another supervised intro face to face. An intro with a feral cat can take a looooong time, especially if she has had scary dealings with other cats before.

And no one here will judge you for protecting the fab four.... if it doesn't work out at your house, I know you will try to do what is best for Czarina and find another home. No matter what, you are doing a good thing here, even if she doesn't stay with you. :grouphug:

Kiska is doing good. I called the vet and they closed her back up. Her wound wasn't opened too much. I did notice they hadn't cut all of Czarina's claws. They must have started then stopped for whatever reason, because she's got a few sharp ones still.

I've got her out in the living room. Oksana has been investigating her area for a while now. Vlad too, and he just passed by, but she hissed at him. He's extending the paw of friendship, but she doesn't seem to be interested right now.

I'll see what happens this week. I'll give it another try. but in the end, I need to look out for my resident kitties. They were here first, and this is where they feel safe. I can't disrupt their lives to the point where they no longer feel safe.

chico2
December 31st, 2007, 09:35 AM
Awww don't cry,although I know how you feel.
At one point,trying to introduce Vinnie to my 2 guys,after Rocky attacking me(very seriously) trying to get to Vinnie,I was in absolute turmoil.
I called the people who found Vinnie,crying so hard I could hardly talk,asking them to come and get him..
10 minutes later I called back,saying no,I'll keep him,but still crying.
Rocky and Chico had a great bond before Vinnie,I destroyed it by introducing Vinnie and felt very,very bad about it,there is still hissing going on,but basically all three get along.

I was very leery about you introducing Czarina to your happy foursome,especially for little Kiska.
You have gotten some great advice from people who know cats,all I am sure who have had similar experiences,but you have to do what you feel is right,right for Czarina,your little brood and your own concience(sp?).

Maybe,just maybe,this incident was scary enough for everybody and things will now calm down,I hope so:pray:
My Rocky never attacked Vinnie again after the first incident almost as if hierachy was established,but of course Rocky was never an outside cat like Czarina.
Nobody here would judge you for not beeing able to handle Czarina,it's scary,frustrating and incredibly difficult..:sad:
If I were you,I probably would give her another chance,but I am not in your shoes and I also have much more space,so no,I would never blame you either way,you do what is best for your little family,including Czarina.:pray:

Love4himies
December 31st, 2007, 09:39 AM
Sounds like you are doing everything possible to make this a success. I too am having problems with Sweet Pea, who was the momma to the foster kittens. She too was a stray for months (perhaps years). I have had her in the house since July and have to keep her and Puddles seperate all the time and at my wits end. She gets along with my male (he is extremely submissive), Jasper, except when she is hungry, then she guards the kitchen and will only allow her kittens in it. She was being fed at a feeding station with unaltered, huge males and had to fight to protect what little food she could get, even while she was pregnant with five kittens before she was taken to the humane society. I have found that if she seems to be getting aggitated, I put out a little Orijen for her and that seems to settle her down. But if I missed the subtle signs of her being hungry, she would get very aggitated, she would even attack her kittens. Seems when the adrenelin starts flowing, she attacks anything around her.

What I am trying to say, is:

1. I understand exactly how you feel. Like you are letting your resident cats down. I feel the same way with Puddles.

2. Czarina may be the same way with hunger. Perhaps smaller portions more often thoughout the day may keep her a little more relaxed.

3. Please don't give up so soon on her, try what people are recommending before you give up. She has been on her own, living the hard life for a while and it will take a while for her come around. Sweet Pea is much better now than a month ago.

Good luck and we are here for you.

Frenchy
December 31st, 2007, 09:52 AM
Oh gosh , I am so sorry this happened ! Please take deep breaths , you are probably more stress than they are right now. If you decide to put her in a rescue , I support your decision. You already did so much for her , getting her off the streets and spayed !

But I do know this is still early and things would change if you give it time. She needs to be in a room by herself behind close door (I know you live in an open area , maybe take out the litter boxes and put her in the bathroom ?) she is not ready to be out with the others. But again , if you do want to put her into a rescue , I would understand !!!

I know how you feel , when I had Daisy , she was alfa with other dogs BUT never attacked anyone , she did get into fights with 2 different fosters of mine who wanted to be alfa , no major injuries , Daisy could stand on her own , but I did felt so bad , it was my fault. But then I thought , I did rescue Daisy and I'm sure she understood about me rescuing other dogs.

Lukka'sma
December 31st, 2007, 09:53 AM
Multiple cats in a household can be a nightmare. They just don't always seem to accept others. I know from my experience with my cats and I would never again try and put two unknown cats together in one house. It was just 18 years of continuous battling and trying to keep the peace. There are some people on this forum that have been successful with additions of multiple kitties but for me it was a constant worry. I certainly know how you feel. You gave it a shot, it just isn't going to work, and what more can you ask of yourself. If you decide to remove Czarina from your home that would be fully understandable.

ancientgirl
December 31st, 2007, 09:54 AM
Awww don't cry,although I know how you feel.
At one point,trying to introduce Vinnie to my 2 guys,after Rocky attacking me(very seriously) trying to get to Vinnie,I was in absolute turmoil.
I called the people who found Vinnie,crying so hard I could hardly talk,asking them to come and get him..
10 minutes later I called back,saying no,I'll keep him,but still crying.
Rocky and Chico had a great bond before Vinnie,I destroyed it by introducing Vinnie and felt very,very bad about it,there is still hissing going on,but basically all three get along.

I was very leery about you introducing Czarina to your happy foursome,especially for little Kiska.
You have gotten some great advice from people who know cats,all I am sure who have had similar experiences,but you have to do what you feel is right,right for Czarina,your little brood and your own concience(sp?).

Maybe,just maybe,this incident was scary enough for everybody and things will now calm down,I hope so:pray:
My Rocky never attacked Vinnie again after the first incident almost as if hierachy was established,but of course Rocky was never an outside cat like Czarina.
Nobody here would judge you for not beeing able to handle Czarina,it's scary,frustrating and incredibly difficult..:sad:
If I were you,I probably would give her another chance,but I am not in your shoes and I also have much more space,so no,I would never blame you either way,you do what is best for your little family,including Czarina.:pray:

If I had a bigger place this would be infinitely easier. And I could at least keep her in a separate room. I was going to give away my big old microwave, but right now, it's the only thing that is keeping her from getting out at night.

I'm incredibly confused right now and torn like I've never been before.

ancientgirl
December 31st, 2007, 09:57 AM
Multiple cats in a household can be a nightmare. They just don't always seem to accept others. I know from my experience with my cats and I would never again try and put two unknown cats together in one house. It was just 18 years of continuous battling and trying to keep the peace. There are some people on this forum that have been successful with additions of multiple kitties but for me it was a constant worry. I certainly know how you feel. You gave it a shot, it just isn't going to work, and what more can you ask of yourself. If you decide to remove Czarina from your home that would be fully understandable.

Right now I feel like I've disrupted the entire dynamic here. Oksana, while usually keeping to herself, doesn't seem to want to come down from upstairs. Maks is very frightened and won't come down from the cat tree. Vlad is the one trying to be friendly, but that's not working out.

I've tried giving them treats together, but she eats the treat and growls the entire time.

My four have all come to me as kittens. I have no experience with strays and I feel Czarina just would do better in household with either no cat or one, not four.

14+kitties
December 31st, 2007, 10:11 AM
As has been said before this morning ancient, deep breaths. I know that sounds easy but at times that's the best thing to do.

I'm sorry but I thought you had said you had Czarina in a half bath? It has a door on it? Or is in a hallway that is closed off? :confused: Sorry. At night could you not put her in the half bath and close the door? It won't hurt her to be in a small area at night. She would probably feel quite safe there as well. And if it takes a week, great. If it takes a month or more, so be it.
There wasn't any major issues when you were there in the living room with them all so the answer may be to keep her in a separate area when you aren't available and at night.
You had said when Kiska was in heat that you had her in the bathroom and the others were not happy. That's because Kiska was already one of them and she was being separated. Also, the heat thing threw them all off. That would account for the peeing where they shouldn't. I really don't think that they would do that with Czarina because she isn't one of them.........yet. ;)
Anyway, what I am trying to say is.....hang in there!!! Things will get better. And you have a great support network here. We all care about you and what you are doing. :grouphug: :goodvibes:

14+kitties
December 31st, 2007, 10:19 AM
Right now I feel like I've disrupted the entire dynamic here. Oksana, while usually keeping to herself, doesn't seem to want to come down from upstairs. Maks is very frightened and won't come down from the cat tree. Vlad is the one trying to be friendly, but that's not working out.

I've tried giving them treats together, but she eats the treat and growls the entire time.

My four have all come to me as kittens. I have no experience with strays and I feel Czarina just would do better in household with either no cat or one, not four.

This is all normal. Czarina's growling while she is eating is what she had to do when she was outside with the other strays or cats that were allowed to roam. She had to fight to get her share of the food.
Oksana will be fine. When she is ready she will come down. Maks is probably worried about where Kiska is and doesn't want to come down because she isn't there. Vlad is being great, isn't he? And if he is making overtures it probably wouldn't be long before she would start accepting them.
Czarina has to get used to the fact that she is in a home again where she doesn't have to fight with everything around her. That is going to take longer than a couple of days. Hang in there. It will get better.

Jim Hall
December 31st, 2007, 10:28 AM
Well at least no one was hurt bad

2 things come to mind

Czarina is going to take a long time to adjust and there will be setbacks
If cz was an outdoor cat for sure she is going to have issues with food and perceived threats

I dint know how big your pl ace is but it just may be that you have 1 too many. Only time and your own knowledge and intuition can tell you that

JanM
December 31st, 2007, 11:15 AM
My heart goes out to you! I, too, had a bad situation when I introduced a new cat to my household and I was devastated when I had to surrender her (the new cat)! I was worried about my cat being a bully and not accepting the new girl cat - wrong. Bobby, the most laid-back dog in the whole world, suddenly attacked her - I got my foot between them - and was bitten in the process but after that I just could not trust them when I had to go out so I surrendered her.

It's heartbreaking but I had to do it for the safety of everyone! You have provided Czarina with a caring, loving haven and have helped her immensely - as I did with Maddie.

If you are feeling guilty and that you failed - don't! You've done all you could and more than many would have done.

Stacer
December 31st, 2007, 11:21 AM
What a horrible thing to wake up to! Little Kiska will be OK both physically and mentally, she's still a kitten, they're pretty resilient.

I'd still give it another go, I know you're feeling like you've brought unnecessary stress to your 4, but Czarina deserves a second chance and maybe a much slower introduction into the family.

I was always under the impression that when introducing a new animal to a household that they be put in a room with the door closed for the first 5-7 days, bringing in blankets with the scent of the resident animals for her to get used to and vice versa. Letting them sniff each other under the door, etc.... And you spending time in the closed room with the cat to gain her trust. The idea being that before they actually visually see each other, they are really used to the scent of each other. Then slow visual introductions, your screen is excellent for that. Then finally once you feel that they will be OK to meet "in person" you let them in the same room together, closely supervised for short periods of time, letting them mingle longer each time until they're ready to be friends (or at least tolerate each other's presence, lol). It's a long process and really depends on the cats and how accepting they are of each other.

In any case, you've done a good thing, getting her off the street. And you have to decide what's right for you and your 4.

ancientgirl
December 31st, 2007, 11:30 AM
The maintenence man, Miguel, who had been feeding Czarina for me came up to see her. When he went to pet her, Vlad came close to her too and she allowed him to touch her nose with his.

He's really being so good and trying so hard to be friends. Miguel told me to give it a few more days. This is all new to her and she's just got to get used to them all. He also told me he's seen her go to the bathroom outside and she does bury her "stuff". She may not be used to the color of the litter.

I'm going to give it some more time.

I've cried so hard I have a huge headache. I want this to work so badly. I want to give her a loving home and other cats she can play with. I believe I have the screen issue solved.

I'm tired right now, very tired and my head is pounding. I think I'll take a nap. I'll get the floor pillow and lay down on the rug down here for a bit.

Thank you everyone for the advice and mainly the support.

Winston
December 31st, 2007, 11:37 AM
I think a nap will make you feel a whole lot better~! Gotta remember you have had a rough few hours! Just wanted to ask how much rescue remedy you are giving her? I have a book with some info in it and it says that you can give them several drops every ten minutes or so..It mentions some issues with anxiety and I think that is what Czarina is going through..it says signs of anxiety in cats is hiding away, making strange meowing/growling sounds, uncharacteristic agression,poor appetite, and even some panting. Some to the extent that they urine mark...(good thing she isnt doing this!)

So hopefully things will calm now...When does your little girl come home?

Cindy

Jim Hall
December 31st, 2007, 11:38 AM
see thay already calmed down

I get the same way I forget that cats are first of all survivoers no matter how cute and fragile they seem

ancientgirl
December 31st, 2007, 11:41 AM
What a horrible thing to wake up to! Little Kiska will be OK both physically and mentally, she's still a kitten, they're pretty resilient.

I'd still give it another go, I know you're feeling like you've brought unnecessary stress to your 4, but Czarina deserves a second chance and maybe a much slower introduction into the family.

I was always under the impression that when introducing a new animal to a household that they be put in a room with the door closed for the first 5-7 days, bringing in blankets with the scent of the resident animals for her to get used to and vice versa. Letting them sniff each other under the door, etc.... And you spending time in the closed room with the cat to gain her trust. The idea being that before they actually visually see each other, they are really used to the scent of each other. Then slow visual introductions, your screen is excellent for that. Then finally once you feel that they will be OK to meet "in person" you let them in the same room together, closely supervised for short periods of time, letting them mingle longer each time until they're ready to be friends (or at least tolerate each other's presence, lol). It's a long process and really depends on the cats and how accepting they are of each other.

In any case, you've done a good thing, getting her off the street. And you have to decide what's right for you and your 4.

I've really only got two bathrooms with doors. The half bath, which is small, and the main bath upstairs, which is where the main litter box is. I thought about putting her in there, but it would mean further disruption of the routine for the resident cats.

Things right now are quiet. I'll allow Czarina to be out of the enclosure the entire day until this evening. Hopefully some progress will be made.:fingerscr

sugarcatmom
December 31st, 2007, 11:56 AM
Awww, ancientgirl, I feel for you. What stress!!! There's a book that, if you can get it in time, would be probably be the best tool for you in this situation. It's called Cat vs Cat (http://catbehaviorassociates.com/books.htm), by Pam Johnson-Bennett, a certified animal behaviour consultant. The book deals with everything related to multi-cat homes and how to deal with the various issues that arise. I recommend it for anyone having difficulties.

The other thing is, while I know there are lots of people here that have lots of cats, sometimes it is possible to have too many. Cats are a territorial species. They are not naturally pack animals, like dogs are. All the time and patience in the world isn't going to make your space any bigger, and if that's part of the problem, it may never work out with Czarina. If she does need to find a new home, whether it be soon or sometime in the future, that doesn't mean you failed, it just means you recognized the limitations of your situation and dealt with it responsibly.

I wish you all the luck in the world.

ancientgirl
December 31st, 2007, 12:13 PM
Sugarcatmom, thank you. I ordered it on Amazon. I read some of the reviews and they were all very positive.

I'm going to give it some time. Hopefully I'll get the book soon and I can figure out how to make things around here easier for them.

Lukka'sma
December 31st, 2007, 12:51 PM
The other thing is, while I know there are lots of people here that have lots of cats, sometimes it is possible to have too many. Cats are a territorial species. They are not naturally pack animals, like dogs are. All the time and patience in the world isn't going to make your space any bigger, and if that's part of the problem, it may never work out with Czarina. If she does need to find a new home, whether it be soon or sometime in the future, that doesn't mean you failed, it just means you recognized the limitations of your situation and dealt with it responsibly.



That was very well said sugarcatmom.

Janie123
December 31st, 2007, 02:22 PM
Don't feel bad,honey. I once had a cat named Bubba that liked Pepper but not the dogs. I managed to get him to stop attacking them but not when I wasn't home. He bit Mitzie badly on the head but I never saw it. Poor little thing had to have surgery and a trip to the emergency vet for pain control.
Bubba would have been happier being and only cat but I could not find a home for him. He was a kitten someone found in a dumpster and we had him 8 years when he died of kidney failure. I was so sad but the dogs seemed happier without him around. He was a HUGE cat,the bully of the house. Still,I miss him a lot.

ancientgirl
December 31st, 2007, 03:00 PM
It's very stressful. Especially when she's the one who doesn't seem to want to socialize. The others are curious, and Vlad has actually been trying to approach her the most.

I picked up Kiska from the vet and she's okay. They gave me some stronger pain medication, for her for the next couple of days. I was going to put her in the big carrier when I went to bed, but I've got the screen situation taken care of.

I'm going to give this a bit more time.

I'm hoping for the best. I just want them all to be able to live together peacefully.

I've come to terms with the fact I'm doing all I can. If it turns out I have to take her out of here, I'm going to try to find her a home where she doesn't have to share her space with another cat.

She's important to me ans so is her welfare, but I have to think of my first four first and can't put them in danger or under stress.

Kristin7
December 31st, 2007, 03:08 PM
I'm sorry to hear about the cat fighting and am sending good wishes your way! Whatever happens, just remember you ARE helping them and are a kitty saint for doing that. If you have to rehome Czarina, it is not a failure, she would not have lasted long outside on her own and deserves a loving home. I certainly know what you are going thru as I have my own cats that don't get along. I just brought in a third cat (my boyfriend's) and my two resident cats didn't like each other to begin with. I still feel bad about bringing my second cat home because the first one hates her and pretty much lives in my bedroom, clearly not very happy still and it has been three years since Annie came home. Now with the third one, they are all disturbed and the last couple days there has been fighting. Not bad, no blood drawn (yet, knock on wood), but the new cat is starting to assert herself as she feels more comfortable. Hopefully this is as bad as it gets. :fingerscr Annie did once slash Micki's ear and there is a scar. When I brought my dog home, Annie was playing with him and got injured and also sick. I thought she was going to die and felt horribly guilty. Thankfully that was the last dog-cat incident. The three cats in my house will likely never be friends though and would probably be happier in other situations. However, I do know they have a good home here and we will do what we can to help them get along. My place is also quite small though so there will always be issues. Something someone else mentioned may help as I have noticed the same thing in my house - that the fights are breaking out around feeding time. I suspect they get agitated when they are hungry and have much lower tolerance for each other. You might try feeding them more often, keeping some food in their bellies may help? If you have a water bottle around, keep it handy in case there is another fight - a few squirts will break it up. Good luck and I hope things get better!!! :grouphug:

Love4himies
December 31st, 2007, 03:20 PM
I've tried giving them treats together, but she eats the treat and growls the entire time.



A stray that I was trying to get into the house this last summer would eat and growl. We could pet her before she got the food, but during and after we couldn't touch her. She had a pink collar on so we know she used to belong to somebody and not totally feral. As time past, she got friendier, but unfortunately she was hit by a car before we could get her in. Czarina is luckier, you have rescued her before that happened. Sounds like your Czarina just needs some time to adjust to not having to fight for her food. Perhaps a trick would be feeding her 5-6 times a day until she knows she doesn't have to fight anymore.

krdahmer
December 31st, 2007, 03:25 PM
Right now I feel like I've disrupted the entire dynamic here. Oksana, while usually keeping to herself, doesn't seem to want to come down from upstairs. Maks is very frightened and won't come down from the cat tree. Vlad is the one trying to be friendly, but that's not working out.

I've tried giving them treats together, but she eats the treat and growls the entire time.

My four have all come to me as kittens. I have no experience with strays and I feel Czarina just would do better in household with either no cat or one, not four.

That is very normal... Palomine was also like this for the first month or so, I had to feed him seperately and it took a while before he realized that there was always food (he still gets panicky sometimes if the bowls are empty and swats the others if they try to eat).

The maintenence man, Miguel, who had been feeding Czarina for me came up to see her. When he went to pet her, Vlad came close to her too and she allowed him to touch her nose with his.


I'm going to give it some more time.

I've cried so hard I have a huge headache. I want this to work so badly. I want to give her a loving home and other cats she can play with. I believe I have the screen issue solved.

I'm tired right now, very tired and my head is pounding. I think I'll take a nap. I'll get the floor pillow and lay down on the rug down here for a bit.

Thank you everyone for the advice and mainly the support.

That is great that Vlad got so close already. And I know what you mean about the crying headache, a good nap may help you feel better and recharged. I have also found that by laying down with the feral/strays, they feel more comfortable coming up and thoroughly checking you out... that may have been what happened last night with Kiska too... only they startled each other and ended up fighting :shrug::sad:. Keeping all their claws cut right down will be important also, so maybe you should get the vet to finish the job (strange that they would only miss some?).

I've really only got two bathrooms with doors. The half bath, which is small, and the main bath upstairs, which is where the main litter box is. I thought about putting her in there, but it would mean further disruption of the routine for the resident cats.

Things right now are quiet. I'll allow Czarina to be out of the enclosure the entire day until this evening. Hopefully some progress will be made.:fingerscr

:fingerscr & :goodvibes: here for you too! Hope you have a restful nap and a less eventful evening! :grouphug:

ancientgirl
December 31st, 2007, 03:30 PM
I've got their food stations set up in different areas.

Vlad and Oksana eat together. They actually jump up on the counter and eat the canned I give them, then they have two off the floor bowls with dry food. They have no issues eating next to each other or eating from each other's dish at the same time.

Same thing with Maks and Kiska. I've even seen Maks and Kiska eating from Vlad's plate while he's eating too, so the four of them really have no issues sharing their food.

Czarina's food I have in the hallway area. Since she won't come out of her pyramid bed, I took her to her food and she ate some, then went back in the pyramid. Then I brought her back to the living room.

Their dry food bowls are always full, so they always know there is something to eat at all times.

Hopefully Czarina will come to understand that and not have any food issues. I think her growling was due to just the fact Vlad was too close. Even without food she does the same thing.

And believe me, the water bottle is always handy. One thing I'm feeling badly about is, Oksana is keeping herself in the bedroom. She's usually at least out here with everyone else.

I'm hoping she doesn't do this from here on out. This was her home first, and I would hate for her to feel she can't live as she did before.

hazelrunpack
December 31st, 2007, 03:45 PM
Aw, ancientgirl :grouphug: I'm sorry you and your fur family are going through this. I have no cat experience, but I know that whatever you decide to do with Czarina will be the best thing for everyone.

:fingerscr :pray: :goodvibes: that it will all work out for you with no more trauma!

Dracko
December 31st, 2007, 04:01 PM
Mochie, my oldest cat, is my baby. When I adopted Ginkgo she (Ginkgo) was only a kitten. Mochie hid. She hid in the basement for days and I had to keep going to see her. I felt horrible!!! I questioned if I should have adopted Ginkgo, etc.

When she finally started coming out she'd lay on my bed like usual but if Ginkgo jumped up, she'd leave. :cry: Broke my heart. If Ginkgo got too close Mochie would bat her and hiss. After a couple weeks she relaxed and things got back to normal.

Then about 6 months later I adopted Smitty (he needed to be rescued like Czarina so timing wasn't my choice). Same thing happened. Mochie hid and it broke my heart. But things once again got back to normal.

When I introduced the 2 youngest ones I have now Mochie was much better about it. Ginkgo was scared of them and hissed/swatted them if they came too close. Smitty wanted to just lick them. :laughing: You can never be sure how they will react.

The difference, of course, is your NEW one is the aggressor but I agree that it is probably because she is so unsure. Probably feels very trapped cuz she can't run away being indoors now. I almost feel guilty for all the "rooms" I have with doors. :o That really is your issue. If you had a place you could enclose her longer term to let the initiation be more gradual, it would be easier on everyone.

But, keep in mind, even if it turns out that Czarina is rehomed with someone else you still rescued her. And, I do know the feeling of having that sinking pit in your stomach and a sense of having done the wrong thing. I went through it when I adopted Ginkgo and Smitty and the house seemed in so much of an upheaval for a bit.

I_love_mischa
December 31st, 2007, 04:27 PM
Oh no! That's a really tough situation! I feel what your feeling because I could only imagine what I would feel like if that happened to one of mine! I think time will tell. If she gets better than keep her, but if you feel threatened and you have to worry about your other cats it may be best for her to go to someone who doesn't have any other cats, like you said. Not just for the safety of your other cats, but for her own interest. If she doesn't like other cats, she may be unhappy. She'd probably like a home all to herself better. It's up to you though. Keep us posted on what you do!!!

I_love_mischa
December 31st, 2007, 04:32 PM
By the way, I love your cats names! Very different!!!:thumbs up:cat:

ancientgirl
December 31st, 2007, 04:44 PM
Mochie, my oldest cat, is my baby. When I adopted Ginkgo she (Ginkgo) was only a kitten. Mochie hid. She hid in the basement for days and I had to keep going to see her. I felt horrible!!! I questioned if I should have adopted Ginkgo, etc.

When she finally started coming out she'd lay on my bed like usual but if Ginkgo jumped up, she'd leave. :cry: Broke my heart. If Ginkgo got too close Mochie would bat her and hiss. After a couple weeks she relaxed and things got back to normal.

Then about 6 months later I adopted Smitty (he needed to be rescued like Czarina so timing wasn't my choice). Same thing happened. Mochie hid and it broke my heart. But things once again got back to normal.

When I introduced the 2 youngest ones I have now Mochie was much better about it. Ginkgo was scared of them and hissed/swatted them if they came too close. Smitty wanted to just lick them. :laughing: You can never be sure how they will react.

The difference, of course, is your NEW one is the aggressor but I agree that it is probably because she is so unsure. Probably feels very trapped cuz she can't run away being indoors now. I almost feel guilty for all the "rooms" I have with doors. :o That really is your issue. If you had a place you could enclose her longer term to let the initiation be more gradual, it would be easier on everyone.

But, keep in mind, even if it turns out that Czarina is rehomed with someone else you still rescued her. And, I do know the feeling of having that sinking pit in your stomach and a sense of having done the wrong thing. I went through it when I adopted Ginkgo and Smitty and the house seemed in so much of an upheaval for a bit.

Oksana is a very private kitty. She's usually on her own and watching. Now and then she gets in the middle of things, but only when she feels like it.

I feel bad that she's sequestered herself upstairs. She loves sitting on the kitty condo and looking outside, and she's hardly done that since Czarina came in.

I'm hoping that she will in time get used to things Like Mochie. I'd hate for her to feel like this part of her home is no longer accesable to her.

Czarina only seems to want to wander around at night. Last night we were all upstairs in bed and that's when she got out of her enclosure. No doubt she feels safer to explore with nobody around.

I'm trying to give this another go, but it's going to be hard. Starting the new year with this upheaval wasn't my idea of starting a fresh.

ancientgirl
December 31st, 2007, 04:50 PM
Oh no! That's a really tough situation! I feel what your feeling because I could only imagine what I would feel like if that happened to one of mine! I think time will tell. If she gets better than keep her, but if you feel threatened and you have to worry about your other cats it may be best for her to go to someone who doesn't have any other cats, like you said. Not just for the safety of your other cats, but for her own interest. If she doesn't like other cats, she may be unhappy. She'd probably like a home all to herself better. It's up to you though. Keep us posted on what you do!!!

I'm going to give it some time because she is a stray. I believe she was someone's pet, but it is obvious she's been outside for a while.

It's been only a few days, so I'll give it time. But I don't want to put my resident cats through this for the next several weeks.

I'm hoping to at least see see some progress soon. I don't want the others ti pick up on her aggression and I hope to see some sign, no matter how small that she can at least be in the same room with the others and not hiss or growl constantly.

And thank you. I love their names too.

SARAH
December 31st, 2007, 05:30 PM
The maintenence man, Miguel, who had been feeding Czarina for me came up to see her. When he went to pet her, Vlad came close to her too and she allowed him to touch her nose with his.

He's really being so good and trying so hard to be friends. Miguel told me to give it a few more days.
Thank you everyone for the advice and mainly the support.

Sweet Vlad. If Czarina can see that he's not trying to approach her to be mean, but to say "hey, relax; you are safe in a good home now" and she can stop panicking for long enough to hear him, she'll be fine.

Czarina only seems to want to wander around at night. Last night we were all upstairs in bed and that's when she got out of her enclosure. No doubt she feels safer to explore with nobody around.

I'm trying to give this another go, but it's going to be hard. Starting the new year with this upheaval wasn't my idea of starting a fresh.

You know, cats (regardless of size) are mainly nocturnal hunters, so it's natural for her to want to roam at night to find food and other hiding places. Of course, it's a royal pain that she feels she has to attack kittens in the process :frustrated: !! I can well imagine the shock you woke up with!

When we got Spoutnik, Lewis had in fact brought home an older kitten (4-5 months) from that same SPCA. The fact that we tried and chose an older kitten, made the manager there offer us another, younger kitten, since they don't do refunds. Anyway, this first kitten that I had time to name Chips (because he was the first of our animals to be microchipped, lol) was a feral, from a reservation somewhere around here. He hissed and spat at Misti and literally flew at Sheba's face!

Personally, I would have tried for a week, but Lewis felt too badly for our three animals and felt it better to cut his losses and bring the kitten back. As it turned out, Spoutnik was accepted by one dog in one day, the other in two days and Misti ... well, after a month they play and eat together, but sleeping and cuddling ... not yet anyway. And remember: Misti is just over a year (18 months) and Spoutnik only 6 weeks when he arrived!

Getting adult cats, one of which has been neglected and scared for no-one knows how long, to get along, won't be done over night. It may never work. Or it's all fine and dandy in a month.

Looks like Vlad will be her first ally, and since he's the big male, he should be able to tell her that she doesn't have to be the clan witch!

I was thinking though. Czarina was already fixed. In other words, she had a home at one point. No matter what happened, one day she found herself on the streets, alone, frightened and confused, sad too that her humans weren't anywhere to be found. SInce then, she's had to fend for herself, and learned to trust no one.
Along comes you, a friendly soul who only wants to love as many cats as you can squeeze into your home. I fully get that, I'm the same way - except I add the odd dog or two, lol.
However, in her little head, she probably wonders if this won't be the same thing, if you're going to throw her out when you get fed up with her too; and there's all these other cats who already see this new area as their territory, how will she make a place for herself so she can be safe in one special corner?

With all these thoughts going through her head, no wonder she jumps and lashes out at the first one to come too near when she is out in the open (i e vulnerable) or eating, or feeling cornered.

I know it's hard. I know it won't get easy right away. But what a way to start the New Year with a BANG, right? 2008 - the year of the cats!! (Actually, anyone know what the next Chinese New Year is? Hopefully Tiger, after all, a cat-year to bring yours together ...)

:fingerscr for you and your little tribe of 5, :pray: may they make peace and be friends! :grouphug:

ancientgirl
December 31st, 2007, 06:55 PM
Sweet Vlad. If Czarina can see that he's not trying to approach her to be mean, but to say "hey, relax; you are safe in a good home now" and she can stop panicking for long enough to hear him, she'll be fine.



You know, cats (regardless of size) are mainly nocturnal hunters, so it's natural for her to want to roam at night to find food and other hiding places. Of course, it's a royal pain that she feels she has to attack kittens in the process :frustrated: !! I can well imagine the shock you woke up with!

When we got Spoutnik, Lewis had in fact brought home an older kitten (4-5 months) from that same SPCA. The fact that we tried and chose an older kitten, made the manager there offer us another, younger kitten, since they don't do refunds. Anyway, this first kitten that I had time to name Chips (because he was the first of our animals to be microchipped, lol) was a feral, from a reservation somewhere around here. He hissed and spat at Misti and literally flew at Sheba's face!

Personally, I would have tried for a week, but Lewis felt too badly for our three animals and felt it better to cut his losses and bring the kitten back. As it turned out, Spoutnik was accepted by one dog in one day, the other in two days and Misti ... well, after a month they play and eat together, but sleeping and cuddling ... not yet anyway. And remember: Misti is just over a year (18 months) and Spoutnik only 6 weeks when he arrived!

Getting adult cats, one of which has been neglected and scared for no-one knows how long, to get along, won't be done over night. It may never work. Or it's all fine and dandy in a month.

Looks like Vlad will be her first ally, and since he's the big male, he should be able to tell her that she doesn't have to be the clan witch!

I was thinking though. Czarina was already fixed. In other words, she had a home at one point. No matter what happened, one day she found herself on the streets, alone, frightened and confused, sad too that her humans weren't anywhere to be found. SInce then, she's had to fend for herself, and learned to trust no one.
Along comes you, a friendly soul who only wants to love as many cats as you can squeeze into your home. I fully get that, I'm the same way - except I add the odd dog or two, lol.
However, in her little head, she probably wonders if this won't be the same thing, if you're going to throw her out when you get fed up with her too; and there's all these other cats who already see this new area as their territory, how will she make a place for herself so she can be safe in one special corner?

With all these thoughts going through her head, no wonder she jumps and lashes out at the first one to come too near when she is out in the open (i e vulnerable) or eating, or feeling cornered.

I know it's hard. I know it won't get easy right away. But what a way to start the New Year with a BANG, right? 2008 - the year of the cats!! (Actually, anyone know what the next Chinese New Year is? Hopefully Tiger, after all, a cat-year to bring yours together ...)

:fingerscr for you and your little tribe of 5, :pray: may they make peace and be friends! :grouphug:

Vlad is an incredibly sweet boy and the most friendly kitty I've ever met. He greets everyone that comes to my home and all of my friends just adore him.

I feel strongly that Czarina was at one point someone's pet. My thought is that she probably belonged to a family that lived here but they moved and she either got away from them in the confusion of he move or they just left her here for whatever reason.

I try to look at things from her point of view. She was left behind. I know cats are quite emotional and they can really bond with their owners. She probably felt deserted and of course alone.

I really hope she comes around soon. I really want to give her a loving home and I think she will be happy here, if she just could bring down that wall she has up. Oksana, Maks and Kiska are upstairs. Vlad is laying on the kitty condo facing me and Czarina is sitting on the floor in front of me. She came out of her pyramid and walked around the kitchen. She followed me into the living room so I decided to just leave her alone and see what happens.

OH, and its the year of he Rat next year. Maybe its good that I have so many cats :)

Winston
December 31st, 2007, 07:11 PM
Heres hoping that you have a good night sleep tonight! and feeling better for your BBQ tomorrow! I hope you enjoy yourself! and dont worry we are here for you no matter what happens! I am glad I saw your post this morning!

Happy New Year Nuria, Vlad,Oksana,Maks,Kiska and Czarina!!!

Cindy

SARAH
December 31st, 2007, 07:27 PM
Year of the Rat eh? I think Lewis is a Rat ... not sure, I'll have to double-check that.

Dogs and cats both take rats, so I think we're all safe at pets.ca :thumbs up

Seems positive that Czarina is out exploring a little. Having the other three "out of the way" relieves the stress factor for all 5 of them too.

Oooh, :fingerscr that this works out :grouphug: :cat: :cat: :cat: :cat: :cat: and one human! :grouphug:

Frenchy
December 31st, 2007, 08:00 PM
OH, and its the year of he Rat next year.

noooooooooo http://bestsmileys.com/notlistening/2.gif

Winston
December 31st, 2007, 08:24 PM
Frenchy! how do you get those funny pictures and make them move like that?

Im sorry :offtopic:

Cindy

Frenchy
December 31st, 2007, 08:32 PM
http://www.bestsmileys.com/

and if you want to make them move , just shake your screen when you put the link in your post :p

http://bestsmileys.com/lol/4.gif

onster
December 31st, 2007, 08:48 PM
awwww ancientgirl :grouphug: That must have really been terrifying. I agree entirely with what sugarcatmom said and wish you the best.

If it doesnt work out, like you and others have said it is no way a failure.

It may still work out though after one week with my kitties togther I actually tried to return hazel, sobbed all the way there. My best friend came with and then luckily there was a quarantine on the cats so I couldnt return my little guy. I say luckily because after all those crazy fights my two kitties are now best buds....most of the time :rolleyes:.

Winston
December 31st, 2007, 08:50 PM
Your too funny! like this?http://bestsmileys.com/clocks/6.gif

Cindy

Frenchy
December 31st, 2007, 08:52 PM
:offtopic: and like this :D (I love this guy :p)

http://bestsmileys.com/dead/2.gif

Winston
December 31st, 2007, 08:56 PM
OH! I think we will be doing this tomorrow!! Yikes!

http://bestsmileys.com/winter/11.gif

Cindy

SARAH
December 31st, 2007, 08:59 PM
http://www.bestsmileys.com/

and if you want to make them move , just shake your screen when you put the link in your post :p

http://bestsmileys.com/lol/4.gif

C'est malin ca :frustrated: :laughing:

OH! I think we will be doing this tomorrow!! Yikes!

http://bestsmileys.com/winter/11.gif

Cindy

Done that today :thumbs up

Winston
December 31st, 2007, 08:59 PM
Oh this could be fun! Gotta go! http://bestsmileys.com/peeing/2.gif pretty soon!

Frenchy
December 31st, 2007, 09:01 PM
And lets hope this will be going on at Ancientgirl's place soon ; http://bestsmileys.com/cats2/16.gif happy cats :thumbs up

Winston
December 31st, 2007, 09:03 PM
Here we go to a nice calm night and only the Best for 2008!http://bestsmileys.com/happy/2.gif

Happy New Year!

Cindy

Winston
December 31st, 2007, 09:04 PM
these are so addictive!


http://bestsmileys.com/happy/5.gif

Frenchy
December 31st, 2007, 09:07 PM
omg I've created a monster :yell:

This is not the TJT , follow the TJT Winston , follow the TJT .... http://bestsmileys.com/whipping/1.gif

SARAH
December 31st, 2007, 09:09 PM
I was about to day that, more examples of thread jacking !!! :offtopic: this is intolerable :mad:

:laughing: :laughing:

ancientgirl
December 31st, 2007, 09:12 PM
Heres hoping that you have a good night sleep tonight! and feeling better for your BBQ tomorrow! I hope you enjoy yourself! and dont worry we are here for you no matter what happens! I am glad I saw your post this morning!

Happy New Year Nuria, Vlad,Oksh
Cindy

Thank you for helping me sort some things out. Thank you to everyone.

I'm a little more willing to give this anothe try. I freaked. Kiska is my little baby. She's so fragile. She weights all of 3 pounds. When I saw her like that, i thought my heart would explode. But my Tiny Miss is home and she's fine, and her Maks is happy.

Czarina was abandoned once, I can't allow myself to give up so easily. I do think that her coming out of the pyramid bed and walking around this evening seemed like a bit of progress. She was at least walking around. Oksana came down and she went under a chair. As soon as she went back upstairs she came out.

She was at least out in the open when Vlad was in the room. I think things are dependent on those two. Like I've said. Vlad seems willing to extend the paw of friendship. It's up to Czarina now to accept it.

Hey, and thanks for that link Frenchy! http://bestsmileys.com/cats2/14.gif

SARAH
December 31st, 2007, 09:17 PM
Lots and lots of :goodvibes: for Czarina and Vlad to start with, and the rest of the kitties as well.

It did sound promising that Oksana could walk around without the miss-kitties getting into it!

:grouphug: to all of you!

Frenchy
December 31st, 2007, 09:17 PM
Did you see these ones ? http://bestsmileys.com/cats1/4.gif

http://bestsmileys.com/cats1/23.gif

http://bestsmileys.com/cats2/9.gif

http://bestsmileys.com/cats2/17.gif

ok I'll stop now :laughing:

ancientgirl
December 31st, 2007, 09:18 PM
Too bad they didn't have Chococat. I love him!

ancientgirl
December 31st, 2007, 09:23 PM
And lets hope this will be going on at Ancientgirl's place soon ; http://bestsmileys.com/cats2/16.gif happy cats :thumbs up

Let's hope the new year brings a new calm to my home!

CyberKitten
December 31st, 2007, 11:08 PM
Og please don't give up yet- it takes time for cats to integrate, some more than others. I know I have dione it with so many and few are the same. Some are easy as pie (tho I am not the best pie maker so I bestter ifnd another analogy, easy as uhm, reading a book) while so me , esp kitties who have had probs in the past , take time, patience and lots of love.

I have integrated many ferals and I start by placing them in ytheitr own room. I get a radio and put soft or classical music on it or I read to them - if the cat is a feral, s/he may even at this pt be in a carrier or larger crate so she does not jump off the walls and hurt herself. 9I use her, could be him.) I want her to adjust to human voices. I sometimes even use recordings I have done- I have lots from dictating for the medical transcriptionists so these cats listen to all my charting but they do get to know my voice. I was going to make a tape ore day and it occurred to me- og wait, I have dozens of tapes, lol

Some cats I realize may need weeks before they are ready to be included with the rest of the crew. You have to play it by ear. If they are at all curious, let the other cats sniff their area but do not let them in for at least 3-5 days to a week and sometimes more in the case of feral cats.

I also use rescue Remedy and especially with ferals, teach them to play - it is so sad to see a kitten who has never played. You js want to cry! Also, I use two tricks- the towel one where I rub a towel on the other cats and then bring it to the new cat and let her sleep on it so she gets used to the smell. Then I bring it back to the other cats. There is also the vanilla trick where you can neutralize the smell by dabbing a wee bit of vanilla (REAL vanilla is best but if you have to use the other stuff, it can work too) under each cat's chin and several other parts of their fur and then they can't tell these cats are in their territory. This is very useful when one cat has been to the vet and returns.

But most of all it takes time and patience. I know you can do it - it is not hard, just time consuming! Sometimes, accidents happen and in that case, i would star tall over again - that way is the best. Don't go back to where you were - it just can add to problems.

I hope all your kitties are doing OK!

Good luck!!!!

growler~GateKeeper
January 1st, 2008, 12:13 AM
Ancient Girl - :grouphug: glad to hear Kiska is doing okay.

What about wedging a Xpen (http://showpaps.com/Xpen.html) in the doorway of the half bath, where Czarina can access a little more space, but not escape? You can always attach towels to the bottom in places so it's not completely open for viewing & she has a little privacy/security - this may help to bring her out of the pyramid bed.

It is good that Oksana has come down to check out Czarina again. She is cautious but interested - this is good.

Intros with adults are always different than w/babies. Duffy :cat: hid on the third floor for a full week before she would go anywhere near Cally :dog: when I brought him home. She was 7 years old & 3 years without a dog in the house, he was 6 years old & a cat chaser :rolleyes:

clm
January 1st, 2008, 12:45 AM
It's not surprising you're having so many problems with your new girl. It's still early days yet so don't give up hope. I know how hard it is. I've integrated many cats here, and it's always been difficult at best. Your outdoor girl is going to take some time for sure. She's used to being out on her own and I'm sure she's a lot tougher than she looks, out of necessity, she had to be.
I hope it all works out for you soon. I know what an upheaval it can be to all the resident animals.


Cindy

ancientgirl
January 1st, 2008, 07:43 AM
This morning so far is quite. I went downstairs with the crew to give them their breakfast. When I gave them theirs, I opened the screet and started gathering Czarina's dishes to give her some water and food. She came out of her pyramid and entered the kitchen cautiously.

She saw Maks first and hissed. He kept eating then moved away to another plate. I put Czarina's food in her station and she came to eat a bit. Vlad stopped eating and started watching things. I finished washing all the plates, putting out fresh kibble and dropping some of the Rescue Remedy in all their water dishes.

I put Kiska on the floor and made sure to keep my eyes on her. At one poing Kiska began approaching Czarina's area. Tiny Miss hissed at Czarina, turned and ran up the stairs. I have to give it to her, she's small but she's got some fight in her. She's actually the first cat I've ever heard growl, such a little kitty:lovestruck:

Right now Maks and Kiska are upstairs with me and Vlad and Oksana are downstairs where Czarina is walking around.

Actually I just looked, Vlad is laying down on his favorite bed and Oksana is sitting halfway down the stairs.

I'll be leaving for my BBQ around noon. I'll stay a couple of hours then come back. I have to make sure to put her back in her section when I leave then I'll let her out for the rest of the day. This is all I can do for now.

When I leave I can secure the screen with the microwave and then just leave out the back door. At least I'll know she can't get out and won't have to worry about that once I start working, tomorrow:yuck:

Winston
January 1st, 2008, 09:41 AM
Ah! good news! an uneventful night! glad to hear things were quiet! I hope you enjoy yourself today! sounds like you need some time out of the house! who would have thought kitties would be sooo much work!

I guess you have great weather ! We are experiencing a snow storm..expecting a few inches!! but its not too cold out there right now! had Winston out doing his business and it was pretty nice!

How is little Kiska today?

Cindy

SARAH
January 1st, 2008, 09:42 AM
Sounds so much better than yesterday already! At least Czarina is coming to the same room as the others, eating "with" them, and there is no hissing, spitting, growling or fighting (save Kiska who had a right to make her point!)

You'll see, this could still work out the way you want it to :thumbs up

SARAH
January 1st, 2008, 09:43 AM
Sounds so much better than yesterday already! At least Czarina is coming to the same room as the others, eating "with" them, and there is no hissing, spitting, growling or fighting (save Kiska who had a right to make her point!)

You'll see, this could still work out the way you want it to :thumbs up

chico2
January 1st, 2008, 09:46 AM
Boy,I was almost afraid to open this thread this morning:cat:I soooo want Czarina to stay with you,to gain your trust and realize,this is it,her :cloud9:
If she is walking around freely without any fights,that's a great step forward:thumbs up
There will be other fights,no doubt,even my cats fight ever now and then.
I think you deserve a great big hug,often our emotions get in the way too and cats/dogs have an uncanny way of sensing panic in us and act accordingly.
If you have a door to close the half bathroom when you go to work,you should do so,then you can be sure she will not get out,she'll probably just sleep,no harm done.
Badger has a lot of experience with"bathroom-kitties"and they all turned out to be wonderful cats,Frenchy can vouch to that.
http://bestsmileys.com/cats2/19.gif

14+kitties
January 1st, 2008, 10:03 AM
Czarina is settling in very very well.:lovestruck:
http://bestsmileys.com/cats1/7.gif is being the angel he is.


(Blame Frenchy for the graphics! :laughing:)

There will probably be more bumps along the road but wow, what a difference between yesterday and today, right?
Closing her in the small bathroom when not at home and at night is a great idea! It may be small but it would be a haven for her. I bet she has slept in smaller spots. That way there is no need to fret about any escapees.

http://bestsmileys.com/cats1/3.gif

SARAH
January 1st, 2008, 10:05 AM
Nice graphics Gerri :thumbs up even if it is thanks to Frenchy :laughing:

ancientgirl
January 1st, 2008, 10:35 AM
Winston - Kiska is going well this morning. She's been playing with Maks all morning, and Oksana has also been playing with her. Oksana takes delight in chasing Maks and messing with Kiska, but its all in fun.

Kiska hissed at Czarina when she walked past her LOL, like I said, my Tiny Miss has some fight in her.

Right now the screen is open, but Czarina is just laying in her pyramid. She seems to have spurts of courage, but that's fine. At least she is coming out to explore. As long as there are no fights and keeping of distance I think I can deal with it. I won't feel comfortable letting her roam around freely while I'm gone for quite a while, at least not until I actually see her interacting with one or two of the others with no problem.

My sweet Vlad has been an absolute saint of a kitty. He really is trying to make peace and be friends. He's such a good boy. :lovestruck:

I'm looking forward to getting away if only for a few hours. I really do feel like a parent. I don't want to leave them right now, not with the tension, but I really have to get away for a bit.

When I come home later I'll bring her out into the living room, even if she's in her little pyramid. I'll keep you all informed.

Thanks again for teh support. I don't know what I'd do if I didn't have this board to come to.

:grouphug:

SARAH
January 1st, 2008, 11:48 AM
Yes I think you do need some air, just to get your head back on track so to speak. I'm guessing discussing your kitty-issues and worries won't be understood and sympathized with at your BBQ, so the best way for you not to get upset, is to just not talk about them :frustrated: not easy :yell: :yell:

For sure, keep us posted! I for one, feel like it's my cat-family living this "drama", not yours :D we're all rooting for you :grouphug:

krdahmer
January 1st, 2008, 12:30 PM
Winston - Kiska is going well this morning. She's been playing with Maks all morning, and Oksana has also been playing with her. Oksana takes delight in chasing Maks and messing with Kiska, but its all in fun.

Kiska hissed at Czarina when she walked past her LOL, like I said, my Tiny Miss has some fight in her.

Right now the screen is open, but Czarina is just laying in her pyramid. She seems to have spurts of courage, but that's fine. At least she is coming out to explore. As long as there are no fights and keeping of distance I think I can deal with it. I won't feel comfortable letting her roam around freely while I'm gone for quite a while, at least not until I actually see her interacting with one or two of the others with no problem.

My sweet Vlad has been an absolute saint of a kitty. He really is trying to make peace and be friends. He's such a good boy. :lovestruck:

I'm looking forward to getting away if only for a few hours. I really do feel like a parent. I don't want to leave them right now, not with the tension, but I really have to get away for a bit.

When I come home later I'll bring her out into the living room, even if she's in her little pyramid. I'll keep you all informed.

Thanks again for teh support. I don't know what I'd do if I didn't have this board to come to.

:grouphug:


My smallest is also my loudest... I think they growl and hiss like jaguars to make other cats think they are bigger than they are! :rolleyes::lovestruck: It seems like you are making small steps forward which is great... and I would imagine that keeping the encounters supervised is probably a good idea for the first couple weeks. That way she gets some time apart to digest the meetings with the new roomies.

Hope you are enjoying your BBQ! And http://bestsmileys.com/otherhol/3.gif

14+kitties
January 1st, 2008, 12:48 PM
Happy New Year ancient. May it be filled with lots of joy and love. :)
I was sitting here going through this thread again and just thought...... you had mentioned before that Czarina was outside as well as other cats. How did she get along with those cats? I am sure the groundskeeper would know. He seems like he kept a watchful eye on her. If she for the most part got along with them then there should be eventual peace in your house. You just have to give it time. What's that song....... Time is on my hands, yes it is, time is on my hands............
C'mon all...join in. :rolleyes:

want4rain
January 1st, 2008, 02:07 PM
NURIA!! how did i miss this!! OMG you poor thing!! all the weeping in the world didnt stop you from doing all the right things to set this straight! :lovestruck: im so happy everything is working itself out. your love, hard work and dedication will see all 6 of you through all of these trials. i should email you my phone number for emergencies(or even non emergencies!) just like this. i doubt id have good advice but i can be an encouraging voice. *hug hug hug*

-ashley

ancientgirl
January 1st, 2008, 04:28 PM
Happy New Year ancient. May it be filled with lots of joy and love. :)
I was sitting here going through this thread again and just thought...... you had mentioned before that Czarina was outside as well as other cats. How did she get along with those cats? I am sure the groundskeeper would know. He seems like he kept a watchful eye on her. If she for the most part got along with them then there should be eventual peace in your house. You just have to give it time. What's that song....... Time is on my hands, yes it is, time is on my hands............
C'mon all...join in. :rolleyes:

The groundskeeper said she pretty much kept to herself, but she got along pretty well with the others. He had told me she tried to play with the cat inside the office of the manager but he swatted at her and she ran away.

I gather though she was probaby just on her own for a while and just not used to sharing space with another cat.

I got home and she was in her pyramid so I have her in the living room right now. Vlad is looking at her. LOL, It's funny, the other night when he didn't come to bed, I think he felt like he had to keep watch because there was something strange in the house.

ancientgirl
January 1st, 2008, 04:29 PM
Yes I think you do need some air, just to get your head back on track so to speak. I'm guessing discussing your kitty-issues and worries won't be understood and sympathized with at your BBQ, so the best way for you not to get upset, is to just not talk about them :frustrated: not easy :yell: :yell:

For sure, keep us posted! I for one, feel like it's my cat-family living this "drama", not yours :D we're all rooting for you :grouphug:

Believe me, I did not tell anybody about what's going on. I'm still telling people I've only got 4 cats.

14+kitties
January 1st, 2008, 04:33 PM
So if she tried playing with the other cat that's a good sign!! Hopefully it won't be long before peace reigns again. :thumbs up:fingerscr Sounds like things are going much better already

ancientgirl
January 1st, 2008, 04:37 PM
NURIA!! how did i miss this!! OMG you poor thing!! all the weeping in the world didnt stop you from doing all the right things to set this straight! :lovestruck: im so happy everything is working itself out. your love, hard work and dedication will see all 6 of you through all of these trials. i should email you my phone number for emergencies(or even non emergencies!) just like this. i doubt id have good advice but i can be an encouraging voice. *hug hug hug*

-ashley

It was a hard day. I thought I'd lose my mind when I saw Kiska hurt. She's fine now thank goodness. I just need to realize this is going to take more time than it took with the other's. The good thing is, the gang all seem receptive. She's the one who is the most afraid. Its understandable. She's gone through the most changes.

Thank you for the offer of your phone number. I'm through the worst of it right now though, I hope! The good thing is they will all probably sleep through the day so when I come home I can easily let them out to socialize.

SARAH
January 1st, 2008, 04:44 PM
Believe me, I did not tell anybody about what's going on. I'm still telling people I've only got 4 cats.

Smart :thumbs up

So if she tried playing with the other cat that's a good sign!! Hopefully it won't be long before peace reigns again. :thumbs up:fingerscr Sounds like things are going much better already

Poor little Czarina, how confused she must be. But she is obviously also feeling the peace of your home and is less scared already.

It was a hard day. I thought I'd lose my mind when I saw Kiska hurt. She's fine now thank goodness. I just need to realize this is going to take more time than it took with the other's. The good thing is, the gang all seem receptive. She's the one who is the most afraid. Its understandable. She's gone through the most changes.

Thank you for the offer of your phone number. I'm through the worst of it right now though, I hope! The good thing is they will all probably sleep through the day so when I come home I can easily let them out to socialize.

Cats sleep a lot, or they play - with other cats or a toy. Czarina is possibly too old to just attach the pompon in the pyramid, but maybe not. Otherwise she'll sleep and eat and wait for you to come home and see her.

ancientgirl
January 1st, 2008, 04:53 PM
Last night she did walk around a bit. I'm hoping she does the same tonight. She's been in that pyramid non-stop almost. I imagine at some point she would want to stretch her legs.

rainbow
January 1st, 2008, 06:32 PM
WOW, so much has happened since I last checked in. :eek: Sorry to hear about what happened. :sad: Poor little Kiska but glad she is okay. :grouphug: Also, glad you decided to give Czarina another chance. I'm sure everything will work out with time. She is just so used to defending herself. :grouphug:

Can you give her the Rescue Remedy directly in her mouth? I'm sure it is safe to do so and it should have a better effect. :shrug: Good luck. :fingerscr :goodvibes: :grouphug:

sugarcatmom
January 1st, 2008, 08:02 PM
Can you give her the Rescue Remedy directly in her mouth? I'm sure it is safe to do so and it should have a better effect. :shrug: Good luck. :fingerscr :goodvibes: :grouphug:

Problem there is that Rescue Remedy has about 27% alcohol in it, which cats tend to be rather adverse to. It may actually end up causing more stress trying to get it into the cat. I prefer to rub a few drops on the inside of their ears.

chico2
January 2nd, 2008, 07:46 AM
How were things last night???:pray::pray:ok!

14+kitties
January 2nd, 2008, 07:56 AM
That's what I've been hoping for too. A quiet night. :fingerscr

ancientgirl
January 2nd, 2008, 08:47 AM
I've managed to make her little section more secure, but I feel terrible to have to keep her there when there is so much room to run about.

I did have her out in the living area from the time I got home from the BBQ to the time I went up to bed. At one point I was petting her, she was doing fine allowing me to pet her, but then for some reason she hissed and turned and bit me. It wasn't a hard bite, more like a warning it seemed. That worried me but I just let her be.

Vlad is being a saint through all of this. He's the one who has approached her the most, and has on several occasions gotten a bit close to her and extended his little paw to try and touch her. This morning when I opened her gate, she came into the kitchen where the others were waiting for breakfast. She started drinking out of Maks and Kiska's water bowl. When Kiska got a little close, Czarina growled at her, Vlad ran next to Kiska and growled at Czarina. It warmed my heart to see how protective he is of both Maks and especially Kiska.

I'm trying and I'm trying to be positive. I'm taking into consideration how her life has been. But I'm feeling extremely guilty towards the other four. When I have Czarina lose they are hesitant to even be downstairs, and a couple of times Czarina has tried to go upstairs, which really is their only spot to feel safe.

She looks at me with that beautiful face and I want her to realize she's got a loving home and lots of playmates. But then I feel like I don't feel comfortable in my own home because of the tension. I wish I could talk to her and have her understand me, take away that fear and aggression.

One part of me wants to keep her, but another part of me wants to find her a home where she would be the only cat, and think maybe she would be happier that way. I just don't know what to do.

Winston
January 2nd, 2008, 09:07 AM
Well Ancientgirl! whatever you decide is what will be the best! My 2 have done the biting thing too! but I think it is because they have had enough pets and they want to let me know! Its not a horrible attack or anything but just a "hey thats enough for now message!"

I honestly think you have made great strides in the past couple of days! If we could only get beyond how guilty we feel for them! Try to think of it this way...she could be outside fending for herself..so regardless of how much space she has now she is way better off than last week!

The others are not going to be put out because she is wondering around..really it is a good thing, because her scent is getting around the house and the others will get used to it..

She may very well be better off in a one cat home but until you have given it a fair chance dont give up yet! We are all pulling for you and Czarina!! If you decide in haste you may not be happy later with your decision! But we will not feel bad whatever you decide because she is still SAFE from the outdoors!

Cindy

SARAH
January 2nd, 2008, 09:15 AM
I've managed to make her little section more secure, but I feel terrible to have to keep her there when there is so much room to run about.

Don't. Once she gets comfortable, she'll have that space, and in the mean time, she and the others are safe and have time-out to relax.

I did have her out in the living area from the time I got home from the BBQ to the time I went up to bed. At one point I was petting her, she was doing fine allowing me to pet her, but then for some reason she hissed and turned and bit me. It wasn't a hard bite, more like a warning it seemed. That worried me but I just let her be.

Mine do that sometimes. Could be that the petting built up static electricity which is a little "painful" especially if she wasn't expecting it; or she just had enough. Since it wasn't a hard bite, I wouldn't worry.

Vlad is being a saint through all of this. He's the one who has approached her the most, and has on several occasions gotten a bit close to her and extended his little paw to try and touch her. This morning when I opened her gate, she came into the kitchen where the others were waiting for breakfast. She started drinking out of Maks and Kiska's water bowl. When Kiska got a little close, Czarina growled at her, Vlad ran next to Kiska and growled at Czarina. It warmed my heart to see how protective he is of both Maks and especially Kiska.

Good! See? They are together, Vlad is telling her to ease up, they were there first and there's enough for everyone kind of growl. To me, a positive sign, especially since there was no fight as a result of the growls. Communication :) remember, they don't have our language.

I'm trying and I'm trying to be positive. I'm taking into consideration how her life has been. But I'm feeling extremely guilty towards the other four. When I have Czarina lose they are hesitant to even be downstairs, and a couple of times Czarina has tried to go upstairs, which really is their only spot to feel safe.

Well, just try to keep her from going up for now. But I have a good feeling about this :goodvibes:

She looks at me with that beautiful face and I want her to realize she's got a loving home and lots of playmates. But then I feel like I don't feel comfortable in my own home because of the tension. I wish I could talk to her and have her understand me, take away that fear and aggression.

Well? TALK :) animals will understand, if not the exact words, for sure the intonation and the feelings. Talk, talk, talk! Tell her how you feel, all the things you want for her, safety, love, friends ... she'll understand and start to relax more and more!

One part of me wants to keep her, but another part of me wants to find her a home where she would be the only cat, and think maybe she would be happier that way. I just don't know what to do.

You're doing it :thumbs up

You have already had them together for several days. You have handled the first real crisis, and IMO there won't be another of that magnitude although you may have other, smaller issues over the next few weeks (month even maybe). The fact that the animals are communicating, tolerating eachother's presence around the food stations, is a good sign.

I know I would insist for a while longer, especially seeing the progress in this short time span. After all, this is a "wild" and confused cat, and the others are probably wondering what the ... mom was thinking bringing her in, but since she's here, let's see what this cat is all about.

Czarina is not stupid. She'll figure out that this is heaven compared to being on her own and by herself, cold, fighting for food and shelter ... and that the other 4 are just nice little kitty-friends waiting to be made.

krdahmer
January 2nd, 2008, 10:34 AM
Wow Sarah, did you ever beat me to it... that is exactly what I was going to say... all of it! Nuria you are doing great and the talking may actually help her fit in, once she sees that you are talking to her and treating her just like the others! And the hiss and bite when petting happens all the time, some cats don't like to be 'over' petted and will let you know just like that, a warning snap. She was just done... not mad. It sounds like Vlad is helping you set the parameters for her in her language which is great.

And I have to say, having had two difficult introductions here, one of which is still ongoing... you have to give it some time, she may take longer to settle in, but she could end up being a big snuggle bug, and even 'taking' to one of your residents and having a very important place with you. When I started to introduce Palomine, I was much like you are now... feeling guilty for putting so much stress on the others, fed up with hissing and growling and feeling like I can't leave the house for fear of what could happen (like your Kiska incident, I believe something happened with Smoke and Palomine when I was out... and she hasn't been the same since). But now looking back at that time just a couple years ago, I am so glad I didn't give up, although they don't all get along, and Smoke is more of a loner now, they all seem happy, and have found their own spaces. And they all still love me and I, them. I still have to get out the water bottle now and then, and they have quite the growling and wrestling matches... but when they are all waiting for me to get up, pacing the bed, perched in my window, all six in one room quietly waiting for me to get up, thats when I know all is ok.

Having said all that, I also know that I can't add any more to my house. I have reached the livable limit... even the dog my husband wants so much may not be feasable (until I can offer them more space). You are going to have rough days, and it will be frustrating, just give it some time. Your kitties are all young and they will adapt and recover no matter what the outcome may be.:grouphug:

ancientgirl
January 2nd, 2008, 11:29 AM
I have moments of such overwhelming doubt. When I wonder why I have done this and what is going to happen.

But this is an innocent, and through no fault of hers, she was put in that situation. I know I cannot add anymore to my home. I don't want to give up, but I know I can only take this so far.

The bite, I understand now. Usually when Vlad or Oksana are done with the petting, they will walk away, so this was new to me, I didn't understand, but now I do. Like I said, at least it wasn't a hard bite, so I thought maybe she was trying to tell me something.

I do talk to her as well. I talk to her just like the others. When I pet one of the others, I slowly talk to her and go to pet her as well. So that she can 1, see me petting her too, and 2 so I can try to get the other's scent on her.

I remember a few years ago, when I was looking for a place. I saw one with two bedrooms. Boy, do I ever wish I could have that place now. But then, I would not have found Czarina. When I talk to her I say things like:

You're safe here. Nobody will hurt you here. You are warm and you have food and all these kitties just want to be your friend.

I do this every day hoping that even if she doesn't understand English or Spanish, at least the emotions are coming through.

:pray: for me, pray hard I really want this to work. I feel if I do give her away I will miss her and always wonder what happened to her.

Kristin7
January 2nd, 2008, 11:59 AM
I hope your situation works out! :fingerscr:fingerscr Unfortunately some cats never get along with each other. They are like people, they don't like everyone usually. One of mine is very particular, Micki, but has done well with certain other cats, though I do recall one time I moved from a place with 3 cats and only took her along (the other 2 were my ex boyfriend's and were best buddies with each other and tended to gang up on mine - 'three's a crowd'). She was a completely different cat after that, much happier and more confident. Of course, as mentioned before, the current 3 resident cats do not get along in my house. The only 2 animals that actually like each other are my dog and one of the cats. Fortunately, there haven't been any major fights and they all have their spots around the house. I just try and give them all some individual attention and lovin'. Though Micki hides in my room most of the time, she does get to spend all night snuggled up to my head, so hopefully that makes up for some of it. I know what you are saying about giving Czarina away and always wondering about what happened to her. I think if I had to do that ever, the only way I could would be to rehome to a very close trusted friend or relative, that way I could always know how the animal was doing. Do you know anyone like that who might want a cat, just in case that is what you decide to do?

One of my cats is a biter too, and does that to me on an almost daily basis. Well, I can tell when she has had enough now and pull my hand away before her teeth make contact. Micki would probably never bite me, but she does sometimes growl a lot (when one of the other cats is around).

krdahmer
January 2nd, 2008, 12:15 PM
I do talk to her as well. I talk to her just like the others. When I pet one of the others, I slowly talk to her and go to pet her as well. So that she can 1, see me petting her too, and 2 so I can try to get the other's scent on her.

I remember a few years ago, when I was looking for a place. I saw one with two bedrooms. Boy, do I ever wish I could have that place now. But then, I would not have found Czarina. When I talk to her I say things like:

You're safe here. Nobody will hurt you here. You are warm and you have food and all these kitties just want to be your friend.

I do this every day hoping that even if she doesn't understand English or Spanish, at least the emotions are coming through.

:pray: for me, pray hard I really want this to work. I feel if I do give her away I will miss her and always wonder what happened to her.


That is very smart... and I think eventually she will get your message, and they read our emotions better than we do sometimes. I am sure she sees your love and wants to trust it, it's just hard for her especially if it was a family that left her behind, I mean how heartbreaking!

You have my prayers.... and support... and seeing you go through this just makes me want to cry...
about 6 years ago we took in an older female cat from a couple that was getting rid of her because of allergies, she was just nasty, I was so uneducated and inexperienced, and I made the worst possible decision and had my husband take her to the HS after only giving her a week or so. I weep every time I think of that and always wish I had known then what I do now. The poor girl was ripped up from the home she had for 8 years or so, and thrown into a new house with a new kitten, no wonder she hissed and swatted and hid in the closet! I can only pray and hope that someone did adopt her and give her the home she deserved.:sad::pray: I don't think the guilt I feel over that decision will ever subside. And I think that is why I am hoping so much that you can make this work... I would never wish that sorrow and guilt on you or anyone, as you seem as emotional as myself when it comes to these beautiful creatures. I gave up, and although I did not know then what I do now, it does not make me feel any less ashamed. I actually haven't shared that with many people (until now I guess), because I am so embarassed about my actions. All I can do is now share the experience I have gained since with others, and hope in some small way that atones for how I treated Mitsy.

Winston
January 2nd, 2008, 12:18 PM
:sorry::offtopic: But is that your beautiful kitty as cat of the month? Boy she looks alot like Czarina?

Cindy

krdahmer
January 2nd, 2008, 12:27 PM
Aw that is my Asker!! I hadn't even seen! Yep, she is my current youngest. I only had Windy my oldest when I tried to take in Mitsy.

ancientgirl
January 2nd, 2008, 12:48 PM
I just saw it, Asker looks a lot like Czarina.

Krdahmer, one of the really big reasons I don't just want to give up on Czarina, is I had a situation like you as well. The guilt of it lives with me every time I look at one of my babies.

My boss had found a beautiful Russian Blue, and knowing I was allergic, I took her in. I had been told by friends I'd build up a tolerance. But two weeks into my time with her, I was to the point of asking for an oxygen machine. I had no idea I could treat my allergy with medication. I just never thought to ask. I was naive and stupid. I took her to the HS. When I walked in with her in my arms, she hid her head in the crook of my arm. She was a beauty, and my only solace is that it was a no kill shelter and she surely had to have been adopted fast. But still, I think of her often and hope she found a loving home. And I wonder what it would have been like to have kept her.

It's because of that, I find myself so torn. I want it to work so very badly, because I don't want to abandon Czarina like I did Serena.:sad:

krdahmer
January 2nd, 2008, 12:50 PM
:grouphug:

ancientgirl
January 2nd, 2008, 12:59 PM
Thank you!:)

Winston
January 2nd, 2008, 01:09 PM
It's because of that, I find myself so torn. I want it to work so very badly, because I don't want to abandon Czarina like I did Serena.

Ancientgirl! You need to let go of that memory! You cant look at it as giving up...you saved that Russian Blue by taking it to a no kill shelter....That is the main thing...I think the trouble with us animal lovers is that we see there being a solution for every abandoned animal....But what we always seem to fail to realise how much we really do help them...We we speak to someone about rescue, offer advise, take in an unwanted animal etc that is all great ways to help out!! They just all cant live with us!

You have saved Czarina!~ whether you see that now or not I am not sure but you have! She could be outside, fighting, starving, getting preggers, diseases etc...but no..she is in your safe loving home...and I think you were blessed by the fact she is not ill or needing medical attention and stuff!

Please give your self some time...I think it is going to work....I really do! it may just take longer for your girl to trust you!

Forget about the fight, the hissing and growling and just go on like any other day and see what time brings you...you may change your mind totally in a couple of weeks...we will be here for you through it all......

Cindy

:thumbs up

ancientgirl
January 2nd, 2008, 02:10 PM
It's because of that, I find myself so torn. I want it to work so very badly, because I don't want to abandon Czarina like I did Serena.

Ancientgirl! You need to let go of that memory! You cant look at it as giving up...you saved that Russian Blue by taking it to a no kill shelter....That is the main thing...I think the trouble with us animal lovers is that we see there being a solution for every abandoned animal....But what we always seem to fail to realise how much we really do help them...We we speak to someone about rescue, offer advise, take in an unwanted animal etc that is all great ways to help out!! They just all cant live with us!

You have saved Czarina!~ whether you see that now or not I am not sure but you have! She could be outside, fighting, starving, getting preggers, diseases etc...but no..she is in your safe loving home...and I think you were blessed by the fact she is not ill or needing medical attention and stuff!

Please give your self some time...I think it is going to work....I really do! it may just take longer for your girl to trust you!

Forget about the fight, the hissing and growling and just go on like any other day and see what time brings you...you may change your mind totally in a couple of weeks...we will be here for you through it all......

Cindy

:thumbs up

It is hard to let go of the guilt, but I know I need to. Things like that are part of my anxiety issues. The fact I've kept so many things inside of me, and tried to be strong. It's all just come to the surface and sometimes it's hard to deal with.

When I get home I'll let her out again and allow her to walk around the place. I was thinking about this morning, and how she wanted to come upstairs. Vlad was sitting on the steps, just watching her. I think she didn't come upstairs because of him. I really do think he's not only trying to extend friendship towards her, but I also think he's in a way trying to protect the rest of "his" family from getting hurt, especially after what happened to his baby sis.

He will most probably be the first one she may actually stop hissing at. I know he also spends some time downstairs at night sitting on the microwave looking at her through the screen.

When I feed them, I keep her food where I've got her set up. Maybe tonight, I'll put her food in the kitchen. I can put her near the stove or maybe just at the entrance to the kitchen. That way she can eat in their same general vicinity and see that there is plenty of food and water going around and nobody is fighting. They all actually eat from each other's bowl and there has never been a problem, sometimes two to a bowl.

chico2
January 2nd, 2008, 05:13 PM
Amcientgirl,just the fact she is walking around and there is no more fights,is a huge milestone,growling,hissing etc are normal.
I honestly think you should not give up on her,you've done great strides,it's been only a few days,I am sure one day you will think,how on earth could you even think of giving up on her.
The bite after too much petting is not unusual,my Rocky does the same,but he does not really bite,it's just like,what I call a"love-bite":laughing:
My Chico hisses and growls at the others a lot,but I will also find him sleeping side,by side with Vinnie,whom he hates.
Not all cats love each other and lick each other,but that does not mean they cannot live happily together.
Like Dahmer,in the past I did some really stupid things,out of sheer ignorance and often cry about it to this day,but we all live and learn.
The stress you are feeling right now,will pass eventually,just keep on doing what you are doing and I am sure Czarina and your other kitties will be fine,it will just take time.

SARAH
January 2nd, 2008, 05:35 PM
Oh crap yes, the mistakes and regrets are there, but they are what keeps me going with the firmest of intentions of only having rescues and loving them till they :rip: because there was no other solution for them.

I wish I hadn't done this or that or the other, but done is done and we cannot change the past. All we can do is learn from it and move on, stronger and wiser.

:grouphug: :grouphug: to you and the Lucky 5 :grouphug:

Frenchy
January 2nd, 2008, 06:38 PM
Not all cats love each other and lick each other,but that does not mean they cannot live happily together.


You're very right. My 2 first cats , adopted as kittens 6 months apart , grew up together. They barely played together , never cuddled , never groomed the other , but manage to live together peacefully. Never got into fights with each others. :thumbs up

Ancientgirl , with time , I'm sure they will all live together peacefully.

ancientgirl
January 2nd, 2008, 07:03 PM
I do feel more hopeful today. I can't give up, I just can't. I have to try. I got a book this afternoon called Good Cats, Bad Habits. There are a couple of chapters about strays, and one was hopeful to me.

I'd like her to one day feel she can at least comfortable enough to play with at least one of my resident kitties. Oksana is very much to herself, but I catch her now and then playing with Maks and Kiska. Vlad and her have a love Dominate relationship LOL.

When I got home and opened the screen, Vlad did walk up to Czarina and touched her nose briefly. She didn't hiss, so THAT was a good sign.

I think baby steps here.:D

Frenchy
January 2nd, 2008, 07:17 PM
Vlad did walk up to Czarina and touched her nose briefly. She didn't hiss, so THAT was a good sign.

I think baby steps here.:D

:eek: touch her !!!! :thumbs up

happycats
January 2nd, 2008, 07:23 PM
I sympathize with your situation, it's a very difficult one, that's for sure.

My Squeak girl(rip) was my 3rd cat, then I got tuffy, and all was great everyone got along well. but when I got the sucky brothers (Boowee and Jay) she HATED them, would attack them, would pee on the stove, in my washer, would destroy the furniture, letting us know she hated them.
But when the brothers were fully grown, the tables turned, they were much bigger then her, and would constantly tease and attack her and poor Tuffy!!

It was awful, we were always breaking up fights,or chasing the brothers away.
When Squeak died they focused their attention on poor little Tuffy who is about half the size and weight as them, and to make matters worse, Sega also joins in:sad:

I now live with the guilt of having allowed poor Tuffy( and Squeaky at the time) to live like this, I often wonder if she would have been better off re-homed (for a time I did try to find a good home for her, but was unable)
So you could end up with quilty fellngs either way, whether you keep her or not.

I wish you the best of luck, and hope all works out for you, and just want you to know I would completely understand if you re-home her.

ancientgirl
January 2nd, 2008, 07:34 PM
So far none of the others have revolted. They have all been quite receptive to her. She's the one who's afraid and cautious, but that's understandable on her part.

I'm hoping that a little more progress will be made in the coming days. At least over the weekend I can allow her out for longer periods and not have to put her behind the screen while at work.

Chico, Sarah, I'm trying to not allow the dumb things I did in the past make room in my head. I need to move on. Serena was a beautiful and very friendly cat. I know in my heart she was adopted and lived a wonderful happy and loved life.

Winston
January 2nd, 2008, 08:44 PM
Ancientgirl! Good days ahead dont worry! Love your new Avatar! Now everyone can always see who their rooting for these days! (not that we aren't for the fab 4 !)...:laughing:

Cindy

ancientgirl
January 2nd, 2008, 08:49 PM
Ancientgirl! Good days ahead dont worry! Love your new Avatar! Now everyone can always see who their rooting for these days! (not that we aren't for the fab 4 !)...:laughing:

Cindy

I wanted to remind myself I can't give up on her. I did get a nice shot of her this evening, which I'm just going to wait until I get to work to post, along with some other new pictures.:D

SARAH
January 2nd, 2008, 09:16 PM
New pictures :eek: :D yes :D yes :D

ancientgirl
January 2nd, 2008, 09:47 PM
Oy, it just took me half an hour to get her into her area. She's been hissing at me all evening, and even swatted at me a few times. I don't know what that's all about, but hopefully things will be back to normal tomorrow.

Yeah, it's easier to post pictures with a mouse and stuff. Sometimes doing it from my laptop is a hassle if I have a few.

Winston
January 2nd, 2008, 09:51 PM
Maybe she is feeling a little more comfy and understands that that has been keeping her distant from the others...but thats all good....now she can be more content in her little tent! :thumbs up Has she been eating better now? I mean quantity wise? Oh and the litter box?

ancientgirl
January 2nd, 2008, 09:59 PM
Well, she may feel more comfortable around the apartment, but it doesn't stop her from hissing or growling at the others.:shrug: I wish I spoke cat.

She's been eating well, and she's been drinking plenty of water. I know the water she was drinking probably wasn't too fresh outside. The litterbox I think is fine. But it's hard to tell. When the screen is open, the others go in there too. I'll have to make sure to check it tomorrow before I open the screen up to let her out.

A part of me wants to just let her roam around at night, but I don't trust her enough for that yet. Vlad can defend himself, and so can Oksana. Even Maks probably can, he's getting big. But Kiska, she's quite small and fragile still. I'm going to have to see a major change before I feel comfortable enough to let her roam freely while I'm asleep and not just at work.

Winston
January 2nd, 2008, 10:01 PM
I dont think she is ready for that just yet! In time but not now..

Cindy
:thumbs up

ancientgirl
January 2nd, 2008, 10:05 PM
I dont think she is ready for that just yet! In time but not now..

Cindy
:thumbs up

Heck no. I wouldn't feel comfortable diong that either.

rainbow
January 3rd, 2008, 12:45 AM
Just baby steps at a time. :o