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Semi-Raw? (newbie)

TrailGirl
December 30th, 2007, 11:33 PM
Hello. I have a few questions about switching to raw, and I'm hoping you can help me. I apologise for the long thread, and lack of organized questions.

I have a young dog (2) who has recently experienced some health concerns (seizures - poss. epilespy... we are still awaiting more tests). For some time now (about 18 months), I have been playing with switching to RAW, but for my own reasons, I decided I would keep him on kibble (or at least until I learned more). His diet for over a year, has been Canidae (high quality, lower grains, cost effecient, etc), but with his new condition, I definitely want a diet with higher nutritional levels, and easier digestibility (better absorptions of vitamins and minerals)... Enter RAW.

I have recently started feeding raw (club canine: beef, chicken, turkey, and salmon) in small amounts for his evening meal (sometimes split into 2 feedings, 4 hours apart to avoid stomach upset), with his usual 1 cup of Canidae for breakfast. So far, he seems to LOVE it, and it is agreeing with his digestive system 100%. However, I will soon be switching to raw in the am, and kibble at night (because of it's longer digestion time).

The reason I would like to keep him on a partial kibble diet is because we do a lot of travelling, and we have friends and family whos dogs eat the same kibble... so if we're out visiting for the evening, food is always available. One of my concerns is if I were to switch him to strictly raw, that his system would no longer be tollerant to the kibble. Also, kibble is much easier to grab and go when you're on the road.

If I did it this way (kibble/raw), how would I handle RMB's? Would he still require them, or would he require them if on strictly raw? As mentioned, the diet (for now) would be from Club Canine, and it appears to be rather complete. Are there any known dangers to feeding both either short, or long term?

If anyone has any experience in living with an epileptic dog, and how it was helped (or controlled) without the use of medication, I would love to hear it. As mentioned, we're still doing tests (his condition is far from serious, but of course it could turn without warning so I'm doing my best to remain on top of it), so if anyone has any opinions regarding RAW or anything else that I should know...

What about suppliments? I have heard some very good things about supplimenting with a whole food enzyme... Filling N The Wholes is one that I don't know much about, but am very interested in trying if it will benefit.

Thank you.

want4rain
December 31st, 2007, 12:34 AM
let me start off by saying i dont know anything with dealing with an epileptic dog!!

but i do know a thing or two about going raw.

frankly, feeding a variety of fresh food to your dog is no different than if YOU were to eat meat, veggies, fruit and mac and cheese(like kibble) and cereal(also like kibble). keep 'reasonable' in you head. when feeding meats, feed them whole with the bone in them. feed eggs whole and uncooked, the heel of your bread, yogurt, cheeses, the milk from your kids cereal in the morning... left over snack... whatever the toddler throws on the floor... just try to stay away from veggie based oils, salts and sugars if at all possible.

keep a mental tally (really not an exact science... nor is YOUR diet either and you get along just fine right??) 40-60% meat and bone(make 5% of that raw liver) and split the rest between grains(which are just fine for dogs in reasonable quantities), veggies, fruit, dairy, etc to equal 2-3% of your dogs total body weight. i wouldnt feed kibble in the same day as your fresh food as it is a whole meal in and of itself. as a matter of fact, i probably wouldnt feed it unless its more convenient to feed the kibble. if your pooches take to fresh food without hesitation, i wouldnt worry about it unless you are in a situation where you need to. in other words, buy that bag of dog food before you go on trips. :) they might be a little irritated with it but it wont hurt them at all.

i also wouldnt bother with spending the money on a prepared raw meat diet for two dogs. its far less expensive and better for their teeth to pull apart whole meat parts that arent ground up and to also crunch through softer bird bones. a sort of tooth brush if you will. :)

my dog is 90lbs (possibly more now as he is still a pup too) and he gets roughly 2lbs of meat a day along with random 'left overs'. i kinda keep a running tally of his days food in my head. he had some Kashi cheese crackers, some cheerios, some of Jeffreys string cheese, a few handfuls of the cats 'spring mix' salad and an apple. tomorrow he will get a full 3ish pound chicken, the next day will follow with some oatmeal, several eggs, a touch of honey and ground flax seed (never ended up baking with it) and probably some vanilla yogurt (hey, more than the dog eats yogurt in this house!!!) and of course whatever my son throws over the gate or onto the floor.

we eat pretty healthy, minimum salt and sugar and fats so it works well feeding him leftovers. if you dont eat healthy, keeping some rice, oatmeal, fresh fruit and some frozen veggies on hand will take you really far. pick up a different dairy thingie each week... yogurt one week, cottage cheese another, and so on. same with veggies and fruit. buy in bulk where you can... dogs prefer their fruits and veggies a little riper than we do. :)

hope that helps!! dont hesitate to check out the other threads for raw feeding advice, also hit some web sites if you are feeling weird about it. its really very intuitive and easy to do. variety is the key!

-ash

want4rain
December 31st, 2007, 12:37 AM
also, with feeding a reasonable raw diet with good variety (think week or month not daily) supplementing isnt needed.

there may be things you can supplement for your dogs condition. i would start another thread in the health section of the BB asking for homeopathic remedies for dogs with yours condition. :)

-ash

TeriM
December 31st, 2007, 01:42 AM
I also use kibble (orijen) in the morning and raw in the evenings for precisely the reasons you have listed. I like the club canine products as well but I do believe in adding veggies to the mix as well. I find CC to be a well priced product but I do vary companies (fresh start, 3P etc) depending on price and size of packages. I think it is fine to add RMB to the diet although the prepacked stuff is actually make with ground bone (at least the chicken and turkey) so is not really a necessity and a lot of added bone could be detrimental. A good indication is the poops, if they are quite chalky then they are getting to much bone. I do occasionally give a beef rib bone to keep them busy and often add a chicken thigh to one of my dogs to increase his portion size (very active!).

erykah1310
December 31st, 2007, 09:16 PM
Honestly those seem to be some very confusing posts. Could just be my lack of sleep but who knows.
Raw really isnt rocket science and balance isnt all its cracked up to be.
I personally have no raw feeding advice in relation to epileptic dogs, however on another forum i frequent some one who was a member there had a epileptic dog who she fed raw, her main goal with it and what had seemed to help was making sure there was no grains or glutens, absolutely none..

As for RMB's, I really dont know what to say, I dont feed pre packaged raw and i follow strictly prey model ( to me its the most common sense and easiest to "work out" ) however, a good RMB here and there I doubt would really make a big difference, it would be more as a treat than a part of the meal

TrailGirl
December 31st, 2007, 10:37 PM
Thanks for the replies.

I will start making my own meals once I gain more confidence, but for now I will stick to the premade (and more expensive) stuff.

Can someone maybe suggest a book on feeding raw, maybe with some easy to follow recipes to get me started?

x.l.r.8
January 1st, 2008, 12:46 AM
http://www.rawfeddogs.net/Recipes
There you go, should take some worry out of deciding what to feed.:thumbs up

want4rain
January 1st, 2008, 02:12 PM
Honestly those seem to be some very confusing posts. Could just be my lack of sleep but who knows.


me??? :o im pretty good at rambling....

-ash

erykah1310
January 1st, 2008, 05:28 PM
I reread it over and now that I am more fully awake and coherent, It makes more sense...
Its just me with my airheaded/dimwitted potential:rolleyes:

want4rain
January 1st, 2008, 07:46 PM
:o i am also not very linear... :rolleyes:

luckypenny
January 1st, 2008, 09:02 PM
Can someone maybe suggest a book on feeding raw, maybe with some easy to follow recipes to get me started?

A good book for starters would be NATURAL NUTRITION FOR DOGS AND CATS: The Ultimate Diet by Kymythy R. Schultz. I found my copy at Dogwise.com . I wish it was the first book I had picked up.

14+kitties
January 1st, 2008, 09:29 PM
TrailGirl....... I am on the other end of the spectrum here. I have an epileptic toy poodle but I don't feed raw. I have been very fortunate with her because she has not got to the point where she needs meds. She seizes usually once every one to three months and I know what the triggers usually are. Unfortunately in her case one of the triggers is meat, as in steak,which she loves. The other trigger is stress so we make her life as stressless as we can.
Dogs are not normally put on meds unless they seize more than once a week. Or that is what my vet told me.
I had an article in my favourites that I haven't had a chance to fully read but it may be of interest to you. It has some info in it that is pertinent in your case. I would talk to your vet for advice about what foods can be mixed with what meds. Sorry I couldn't be more help.

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/Cautions_Raw_Food.htm

want4rain
January 1st, 2008, 11:57 PM
so id like to say that im not such a BARFer that i think its right for all dogs. i think a healthy and other wise uncompromised cat or dog would greatly benefit from a homemade(preferably raw meat) diet BUT there are so many situations where its NOT appropriate. is sushi a good idea for someone with HIV? :) i dont think so. its totally up to the good judgment of your own knowledge and research and that of your vets.

-ashley

TrailGirl
January 3rd, 2008, 03:31 PM
Thank you very much for all your replies. I already have that link bookmarked, and I will definitely check out that book. I hear that another good one is by Tom Lonsdale; Raw Meaty Bones, so I will be checking that one out as well.

Although I have the meds on hand, he has not yet started them. Also, since I started feeding RAW (I believe it was the night before my original post), I have noticed a great decrease in petit-mals. They had originally increased in times, but decreased in intensity, and now that they seem to have greatly subsided, (knock on wood) he hasn't shown any signs of heading towards a grand-mal. This could just be a coincidence, but it could also be a sign that I'm treating it appropriately (or at least to the point of keeping them under control).

I've also bought (last night) a product called "Leaps and Bounds" which is a blend of alfalfa, kelp, and black walnut. Has anyone heard of this? His first dose (or half a dose to start) will begin tonight. He's currently at the vets for a whackload of bloodwork, so hopefully I'll get some answers by next week.