Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

question about dog food?

3dognight
December 29th, 2007, 12:48 AM
I hope its okay to ask this here. We've been feeding our dogs Diamond brand dog food (lamb and rice), and recently switched to the Diamond senior dog formula for our two older dogs (Captain, rottie, is 9, Gracie, doberman, is 8). Dolby, JRT, is 5, and he's still on the lamb and rice.

Okay, my question is, are these even good foods for dogs? I was talking about them at work with a coworker - she's our resident "animal person" - she'd got 6 dogs and a rabbit. She was telling me that Diamond was no good; bad ingredients, recall problems, etc. She said she feeds her dogs Pedigree. But I've never heard of Pedigree as a real "quality" food, and the guy at the feed supply store recommended Diamond. Is it a good food, or did he recommend it because it was more expensive than what we used to feed them?

I've seen a lot of other brands talked about here, and I've never heard of any of them, except maybe Science Diet. Are there any quality mainstream foods? I don't live anywhere near a good-size pet store, we just have Wal-Mart and the Feed & Seed where we buy Diamond.

Thanks for any help!



***I tried to delete this when I realized there was a food forum, but it will only let me edit. I apologize, but I guess I'll just leave the whole thread here, so as to avoid a doulble post.***

growler~GateKeeper
December 29th, 2007, 01:21 AM
I would say the Diamond is definately better than Pedigree, but yes there has been recall issues with Diamond and the fact that 4 out of the first 7 ingredients is grain based is not giving your dogs the best nutrition.

Diamond Naturals Lamb & Rice
Ingredients
Lamb meal, whole grain brown rice, cracked pearled barley, millet, egg product, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), rice bran, beet pulp, flaxseed, natural flavor, potassium chloride, salt, choline chloride, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

Pedigree small dog
Ingredients
Wholegrains and cereal by-products(incl wheat, corn, rice) meat by-products (incl beef, mutton, poultry) fats & oils (incl tallow &/or veg oil), salt, essential minerals (incl calcium catbonate, potassium chloride, phosphoric acid, choline chloride, zinc sulphate monohydrate....etc)


Look for Timberwolf Organics (http://timberwolforganics.com), Solid Gold (http://www.solidgoldhealth.com), Canidae (http://www.canidae.com), Orijen (http://www.championpetfoods.com) at a smaller/specialty supply store, ask your local feed store if they can order it in for you, or many of these you can order online

For example check out the Timberwolf Wild & Natural ingredients compared to the other two posted above. Real food in the first seven ingredients alone.


Timberwolf Organics
WILD & NATURAL DRY™

Ingredients: Chicken Meal, Chicken, Chicken Fat, Dried Potato Product, Salmon Meal, Natural Flavors, Salmon Oil, Dried Egg Product, Dried Kelp, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Dried Carrots, Dried Celery, Dried Beets, Dried Parsley, Dried Lettuce, Dried Watercress, Dried Spinach, Dried Tomato Pomace, DL-Methionine, Dried Whey Product, Casein, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Lecithin, Taurine, Brewers Dried Yeast, Dried Saccharomyces cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium thermophilum Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium longum Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Choline Chloride, Iron Amino Acid Complex Vitamin E Supplement, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Copper Amino Acid Complex, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Cobalt Proteinate, Potassium Iodide, Sodium Selenite, Mixed Tocopherols (a natural preservative), Citric Acid, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Rosemary Extract.

rainbow
December 29th, 2007, 01:29 AM
Growler is right about the Diamond and Pedigree brands. You will not find a premium quality food at any supermarket or places like Walmart. Does the feed store only have the Diamond line of foods? Where do you live?

3dognight
December 29th, 2007, 02:11 AM
while I waited for someone to offer any tips, I was doing some other searching of the names of foods I've seen mentioned, and it looks like my feed & seed place carries Canidae. I'll have to head up there tomorrow to check out what else. Although it's probably going to be better for me to order online, as I'm likely going to be paying more from the feed store. (I'm in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan).
There seem to be so many more ingredients in the Timberwolf, and a lot of them look like yogurt-style names (Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium thermophilum Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium longum Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product,) What's the deal with the fermentation products? Wouldn't less ingredients be better?
looks like if i want to try Orijen, my only option is to order it online.
Any one I go with, Ouch, is going to cost more than we've been paying. Although with less grain and (presumably) more meat, do the dogs generally eat less? or about the same?

Thanks again.

rainbow
December 29th, 2007, 02:27 AM
Canidae is the best value of the premium foods. Timberwolf Organics is among the most highly priced of the holistic/premium brands but has cheapened their ingredients recently. :sad:

The "yogurt ingredients" that are added to dog foods are not in very high amounts. I always add a little plain organic yogurt to my dogs kibble. I feed Orijen and am very pleased with the results. :thumbs up

If you read the ingredients in Pedigree and Diamond, there is no comparison with the ingredients in the premium brands. And, yes, you feed less.....I have a 59 lb. Siberian Husky that gets 2 cups and a 90 lb. lab that gets 3 cups of Orijen daily. You also get a lot healthier dog with less trips to the vet. :thumbs up

3dognight
December 29th, 2007, 03:30 AM
:thankyou: Thank you for all your great help so far. I am looking forward to giving my dogs a better diet.
I am confused, tho - dogs can eat yogurt? I am paranoid about my dogs eating much "human food," and it seems like dairy wouldn't be a good idea. I guess I'm wrong there...?

rainbow
December 29th, 2007, 03:48 AM
Yogurt is good for dogs but it has to be the plain organic yogurt without any sweeteners or pectin, etc. added. Check the ingredients....all it should say is "milk ingredients and active bacterial cultures".

Most human food is fine for dogs in moderation. There's a list of foods you shouldn't feed though. I'll see if I can find it...

rainbow
December 29th, 2007, 04:03 AM
I can't find the list I was looking for but this one has the same info....

http://www.animalrescuegroup.com/articles/human_foods_toxic_to_dogs.html

want4rain
December 29th, 2007, 12:04 PM
haha actually people food is *quite* food for your dog and should be fed whenever possible. while i have my dog on a homemade diet (not even half as complicated as it was to type all that out i SWEAR) i would have liked to supplement (for convenience) with Canidae but my danged pooch is allergic to something in it so we gave up on kibble all together.

there are a handful of things that are really good to add to your regular kibble such as yogurt, eggs (whole and raw), fresh raw meaty bones, liver and then there are things that are just pretty good to add such as the occasional oatmeal, egg, honey, and fresh veggie dish (replaces kibble) on really cold days. the most important things to remember is to THINK healthy (no onions, raisins, chocolate. low sugar, salt, preservatives) and cut out kibble with the people food. with fresh food, a meal is up to 3% of their total body weight.

kibble initially was never suppose to be a 'diet'. it was for convenience and to be used as a supplement. people food is the best thing you could feed your pets because it is fresh, whole and not basically ruined by over processing. while breakfast cereal contains all the 'nutrition' you need... its not enough to sustain you.

if you are supplementing your kibble with people food, dont sweat the small stuff. if you dog looks fat, cut back on the 'fattening' foods like grains. raw fat in meat is almost completely converted into energy. do soem research on what different foods do for your dog. sardines and other fatty fish are really good for the coat. ripping up raw meat and chewing bones is good for the teeth and also mental stimulation. grains like oatmeal are good for a little energy boost. i believe flax seeds (ground up) are also good for the coat.

anyways, nutrition works itself out just fine if you keep a good variety. 40-60% meaty bones/eggs, divide the rest up well between grains, fruits/veggies and dairy and your pooch will be just fine.

-ashley