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Rude Dog

want4rain
November 8th, 2007, 10:26 PM
Ford Girl started this thread about rude dogs-
http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=46313

ive always been aware my dog was one of those rude dogs. so we just dont take him out anymore. i know we can work on the leash and calm walking... but the rudeness has not worked itself out.

our cats pound him on a regular basis and he still is rude to them. i take him to visit my sisters dog, he pesters her even past the point where she has really laid into him. he just doesnt get the point! i dont know any other dogs i can socialize him with other than strange ones at petco.

we have a grip (mostly) on leash walking. its a work in progress right now. we take him to petco and walk and walk and walk for distraction training but the moment someone wants to stop and pet him, another dog walks by... he goes APE! a growl doesnt deter him, biting, snapping doesnt deter him... what DO you do about a rude young dog?!

(thanks Ford Girl for addressing rude dogs so clearly. :o)

-ashley

luckypenny
November 8th, 2007, 10:33 PM
When out in public places, have you tried a Gentle Leader or a Newtrix on him?

As for visiting other dogs in their homes, I'd try time outs. Perhaps tether him on a short leash for 3-4 minutes each time he gets out of hand. He should eventually get it. Goof up and play time is over :shrug: . I used to have to do this with Lucky when he would get too rough while we were visiting friends with puppies. It worked after a few tries although he is a bit older than your Mister.

want4rain
November 8th, 2007, 10:37 PM
hey LP, we use the GL Headharness with him. it keeps him in control but its his ATTITUDE. rudeness in check is still rude. you know what i mean??

i mean to say, we dont HAVE to take him places. he loves going for car trips and stuff but we dont ahve to take him out with other dogs and if my sisters dog really isnt going to lay into him over his rudeness then thats kind of her own problem... that or we can separate them.

-ashley

luckypenny
November 8th, 2007, 10:38 PM
What exactly does his rudeness entail?

Ford Girl
November 9th, 2007, 02:30 PM
Can you put him in day care or in a group socialization class? Dogs seem to act differently when their owners are not around, and these sorts of things would be supervised. Natural teaching is suppose to be taugh at by littermates and the pups mom, and when they are puppies older dogs are suppose to keep them in check with gentle "reminders".

Has he ever been told off by another dog? Truley told off. Or has every dog kinda let it be or avoided your dog? Some dogs don't care, they take it in stride, very laid back, others won't put up with it at all. Does it happen both off leash and onleash? I would assume you need to put him in social situations where the rest of the dogs won't put up with it, but not hurt him.

When he's onleash, it's up to you to limit his movement and ensure he is using his manners, are you able to tell him to sit while the other dog approaches? Offleash parks are not a great place to learn or teach until you can control your dog and read the signs, unless you keep them on leash, there are alot of unstable dogs out there that won't help the situation and you need to be able to correct the behavior as it's happening.

We have rude dogs in our group too, so don't feel too bad about it, but be aware of it and start watching for triggers and signs that your dog is being rude, as much as the dog who reacts to rude dog shows signs, yours will too, over anxiousness, ears forward and up, chest out, tail high in the air, confident, almost cocky, barges at the other dog, noise making if on leash. You need to turn him away from the situation, correct it, calm him down, then let the other dog approach him if they are interested in that point. if you dog is calm when he meets the other dog, chances are he will take the time to do things right. When you see these signs, correct him before it escalates to the next level. This is the same things I look for in approaching dogs. It's funny, Dazy and I are almost a team, I see a rude dog and look at her, and her body is telling me she sees it too, she looks at me.

They seem to work themselves out in our group, no dog has been hurt in the process, but some dogs get left sitting there without anyone to play with - they eventually get the hint and the other dogs let them play - they don't seem to hold grudges, as long as a lesson is learnt. For Dazy, it doesn't matter the breed, size, age, she tells them all where to go if they get I her face. Too bad you weren't my neighbour, we could pair them up!

Luba
November 10th, 2007, 02:00 AM
Nipping, growling, snarling aren't signs of rudeness they are signs of poor socialization.

Lissa
November 10th, 2007, 08:17 AM
so we just dont take him out anymore. i know we can work on the leash and calm walking... but the rudeness has not worked itself out.

Aside from poor socialization, inadequate exercise is your problem... Dogs that do not have a channel for their energy will be overstimulated by anything (so even a perfectly socialized dog will act obnoxious if he's not getting enough exercise).

our cats pound him on a regular basis and he still is rude to them. i take him to visit my sisters dog, he pesters her even past the point where she has really laid into him. he just doesnt get the point!

That really makes me nervous. The size difference and potential for injury is far too great to allow that kind of behaviour to EVER develop.
He should never be allowed to pester anything to the point where they've "laid it into him and he doesn't get it"... Its not up to another animal or person to correct your dog. He needs to be redirected by you LONG before it gets to that point... All he is doing right now is self-rewarding - the longer this continues, the worse it will get and the harder it will be to undo.

we use the GL Headharness with him. it keeps him in control but its his ATTITUDE. rudeness in check is still rude. you know what i mean??

Using a head harness doesn't = socialization. It's going to take a lot more work than that. . I would still use the GL because it gives you more control to redirect your dog and get his attention on you.
There should be no socialization unless he is calm. You need to figure out how far away he needs to be from a dog in order to remain calm... That is your starting point. You reward attention on you and work your way towards a dog. Anytime he is not calm, you go back a few steps. Ideally, you want to get to the point where you can walk him right by a dog without him blinking an eye. Then you can teach him how to greet a dog (incorporate calming signals) - the instant he reverts to pushy behaviour the other dog goes away (basically the reward is removed).
I have seen amazingly well-socialized dog educate rude dogs on canine etiquette by ignoring all inappropriate behaviour (extinction). But its rare to find such a well-socialized dog and rarer still to find an owner who's willing to put their dog at risk.
Either way, he will still need an outlet to channel his energy before you see noteworthy improvements.

and if my sisters dog really isnt going to lay into him over his rudeness then thats kind of her own problem...

No its not, that's your problem (you shouldn't rely on another dog to train your dog when its obviously not working). Your sister is lucky that letting her dog fend for herself has not taught her to be aggressive towards all dogs. Obviously she's attempted to correct your dog and he ignores it; when she can't trust anyone to intervene, what is she suppose to do? Dogs have developed elaborate body language to diffuse situations before they start. Rude dogs are the anomaly because they ignore body languge and leave the dog on the receiving end with 2 unfair options - fight and risk injury or live with the torment. Neither option has a good outcome.

Longblades
November 12th, 2007, 07:10 PM
http://www.cappdt.ca/public/jpage/1/p/Article2RewardSystem/content.do

I just found this article on the website of the Canadian Association of Professional Pet Dog Trainers and thought it might be useful to some who have posted here. I've never had this problem so this is not an endorsement but there seems to be some logic to it.

luckypenny
November 12th, 2007, 07:33 PM
Interesting article Longblades, thanks for posting the link.