Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

Major problems feeding Roxi RAW

concerned_mom
November 6th, 2007, 12:59 PM
I've been reading through here and I'm very optimistic you will all be able to help me.

Roxi is a 7 year old cocker spaniel who has had so many skin and allergy problems that her skin just looks terrible now.
I recently (why couldnt I have heard about this sooner?!) learned about the raw food diet, and tried her on duck. It was recommended to me because it's likely something she's never had before in any previous kibbles and that it would be best, given all her allergies.
She happily ate the first 2 portions of it, and then about 4 hours after eating that second portion, threw it all up, and had runny poops.
Ever since then - she will not even go near it.. and this dog eats ANYTHING (like I said, she happily ate up the duck the first 2 times).
So, last night we tried her on turkey.. my husband had some success hand-feeding it to her, with ALOT of coaxing, but eventually she ate a small amount of it - we also mixed it with a small amount of tripe.
This morning we fed her a bit of it again, but just like last night, almost impossible, and we didn't have the time for games so she had nothing.
Help :(
I've read that searing it for a few seconds may help, but will it? I think she's just really outsmarted this whole thing ever since it made her sick - I think she's just NOT gonna eat it.
Any advice??!!

Thanks, in advance.

want4rain
November 6th, 2007, 05:36 PM
id say to go right back to the basics. just because she has an allergy, doesnt mean that its to raw chicken!!! a cocker should eat a whole quarter daily??? get some boneless, skinless chicken breast, boil up some water, once its good and boiling DIP the chicken in for 15 to 20 seconds. you dont really want to cook it but you DO want to whiten the outside of it. feed it whole. she will chew it up just fine. from there, hopefully you can trick her to eating the chicken raw, make sure you do the bones and liver and stuff. :) just go slow slow slow!!!

if she still looks rough after two weeks or so or is still pooping like crazy, im sure other members would know what to do then. i never went through a detox with any of my 5 that switched to raw. :)

-ashley

erykah1310
November 7th, 2007, 05:31 PM
Well...
I too have not had any issues switching my dogs over to raw, but it was recommended to me to give my dogs broad spectrum digestive enzymes about half an hour before feeding raw ( just for the first little while)
Perhaps try the premade raw to start, chicken really would be the best protien to start with, just because a dog has an allergy to kibble with chicken, doesnt mean they will react to raw chicken.
Searing is one way to change the taste of raw for your dog, perhaps give that a try.

Now, purgeing is "normal" for raw fed dogs, one of mine purges almost every time he eats, but he does give it a second shot, I would worry more about the diareah.
Things to consider adding to the raw diet to enitce your dog to eat...
pumkin and yogurt, also great for helping with the "runs"

Chicklet
November 7th, 2007, 08:02 PM
One of my Shi-tzu's , Loves raw foods, But I have found that if he is given his portion of raw food all at once he will end up throwing it up later,
I have to break it up into about 4 portions, Spacing each serving about 5 mins apart, I don't really know why, cause he doesn't eat fast or anything,
``
There was also another little dog that I helped change over to home prepared food,
She didn't take to good to a fast change over, She got the runs and threw everything up, time and time again.
We had to do her in very small stages, took about 2 weeks,
Her owner was getting frustrated after about 2 days, But I convinced her to stay with it, and the little doggies doing great now,

sandrak
November 8th, 2007, 04:19 AM
Give it a good 2-3 weeks before you decide it's not working - there is a detox period that looks like allergy symptoms.


Stick with one protein source (such as chicken) 2 weeks before trying other things.

Use pumpkin, use pumpkin, use pumpkin. . .

My raw 'mentor' has used 2tsp of pumpkin with each dog she's switched with no issues whatsoever. No runs, no urks, no "detox", nada.

Also, the most common things in dog food that cause allergies are the grains, so you might be safe to try chicken when feeding raw

Chicklet
November 8th, 2007, 06:58 AM
Pumpkin is very good, iffin you can get your dog to eat it< :yuck:
Most little dogs I've run into refuses it totally,
Maybe its cause there too spoiled, :shrug:

Little dogs seem to be more touchy to sudden changes over bigger dogs,
Lest that has been my experience over the whole.
and I know it holds true with my puppies,
My new lab went from a total store bought food to complete home cooking with not a single problem,
But everytime I give my shi-tzu's something new I have to do it in stages,
Seems to me the cocker spaniels I had yrs ago where all touchy to sudden change in food too. always had to do it gradual.

concerned_mom
November 8th, 2007, 03:56 PM
Thank you all so much for your responses and advice.. so, update:

Just so you know which one she's on - it's the premade frozen "Mountain Dog" brand, Turkey.
It says it's various parts of the turkey, including bones, with green beans and carrots.
I've started lightly searing it just to bring out the flavour (I can totally smell the difference myself when I do this) and she's doing quite well.
Finally eating it, being a big picky with some pieces, but overall increasing her portions with each feeding.. and she now knows this as "her food" and is quite excited at meal time before I've even begun to prepare it, so I"m optimistic.

Now - I've been told that her allergy tests we had done about 3 weeks ago, probably produced alot of negative-negatives, because of the state her immune system was in - but it did say she's allergic to carrots. Do you think she'd be allergic to them REALLY? The lady who sold me the food seems to think not - she's extremely skeptical of these results, especially in a dog who's skin is in such a horrible state as Roxi's. And this lady runs a rescue centre where they swear by these diets for all rescued animals.
But - just wondering what you guys think... cause since she's been eating it, she's quite itchy, which I'm told is normal if her body is ridding itself of all the crappy toxins in her body from the grain foods, meds, etc... what do you think? Would this be the reason for the itching, or would it really be the whatever amount of carrot mixed in with the turkey?

Also - I've heard about feeding her the plain yogurt - what is this for? Is it safe to give her dairy? If so, how much should I give her?
Digestive enzymes - what do they do? I looked for some in Shoppers Drug Mart, what exact ones do I buy and where from? I live in the Toronto area...

Thanks for all your replies, it's soooo comforting, you're all so great.. please keep it coming :)

concerned_mom
November 8th, 2007, 04:00 PM
Oh - and my husband (who takes her on her routine bathroom trips) said that her poops are pretty good - not really runny, just sometimes changing in colour a bit.
Also, we notice an odour coming from her skin - but it's a very different odour than when her skin is just normally infected (it was more a yeasty smell before) so would this be a good sign since it's a different smell - again her body ridding itself of bad stuff??
Sorry for so many questions :clown:

Love4himies
November 28th, 2007, 02:39 PM
Also - I've heard about feeding her the plain yogurt - what is this for? Is it safe to give her dairy? If so, how much should I give her?
:)

Not all dairy is good for pets, however yogurt does not contain the lactose (which causes the digestive problems) in it like other dairy products. You can feed her plain, or my cats like vanilla flavoured.

Pezza
December 25th, 2007, 05:49 AM
Not all dairy is good for pets, however yogurt does not contain the lactose (which causes the digestive problems) in it like other dairy products. You can feed her plain, or my cats like vanilla flavoured.

I feed raw to my cats. Although they have been on this diet since April, I still give digestive enzymes to help - just in case. In the beginning, I used to crush 1/2 of a human-grade multi-enzyme and mix that in their food - half a tab between them per feeding. The enzymes help breakdown the food in the digestive tract. Cats and dogs that have been on commercial food for a long long time often do not produce enought digestive enzymes for raw food... at least in the beginning. Sometims this is the reason they spew it out almost immediately after eating. As their bodies get used to the raw, they begin to produce the necessary enzymes to break it down. Hence, you can ease off the multi-enzyme tabs over a period of months. Now, I only give 1/2 tab between my cats once a day. They have never had a vomiting episode - ever - on eating raw; nor have they had runny poops. The older one did go through a detox stage where mucus used to apear in his poop. That's gone now.

SARAH
December 25th, 2007, 09:47 AM
Oh - and my husband (who takes her on her routine bathroom trips) said that her poops are pretty good - not really runny, just sometimes changing in colour a bit.


Welcome to the Poop Patrol :laughing: I think we've all been there at one time or another!

I would be scheptical to allergie results at this time, let her settle in with her raw for a while, raw is natural for any animal and there is no reason for allergies from what is natural for anyone.

MerlinsHope
January 24th, 2008, 07:38 AM
Roxi is a 7 year old cocker spaniel who has had so many skin and allergy problems that her skin just looks terrible now.
I recently (why couldnt I have heard about this sooner?!) learned about the raw food diet, and tried her on duck. It was recommended to me because it's likely something she's never had before in any previous kibbles and that it would be best, given all her allergies.

Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience with your raw. I don't know if duck
would be considered entry level raw for a dog with major skin problems, but I'm going to take you backwards a little.

Things you have to understand.

If your cockers skin was that bad there's an excellent chance he has candidae albicans. This occurs primarily from a fallen immune system most often due to over vaccination, poor quality foods, and genetics.
Candidate Albicans FAQ's (http://www.clubequestre.com/health/YaBB.pl?num=1196380128)

If this is the case, and it most likely is, the ph, or acidity level of your cocker's gut is probably very high, (or Alkaline). When the gut becomes alkaline, yeast starts to grow in the gut, ears, mucous membranes, and MORE importantly, the gut no longer can break down foods of any kind, let alone raw food. A dog's intestinal track has to be HIGH in acidity, (low pH), so you will have to start to prime the gut to get it lowered, so that your cocker 'can', start to properly digest foods.

That is why your cocker tossed his cookies and had an irritated bowel.

Often, as in your case, people come to raw diets, because they have reach the end of their wits... but you will have to realize that it's a viscious circle you've got going there because you are now asking your dog to eat foods he simply cannot digest.

(Sorry this is so long)

If I were you, I would
Immediately switch to a ultra premium food that contains absolutely NO grains, salts, sugars, such as Orijen, Evo, Dick Van Patten, Blue Buffalo

It's ok to serve one meal premium kibble, one meal raw, or perhaps in your case, just the change to kibble will make the difference. Start with a few beef short ribs, salmon, sardines, or herring, or mackerel, some green tripe (a large spoonfull a day), you can add a teaspoon of apple cider vinegar to the kibble . (the vinegar will serve to lower the pH in the intestinal tract)... please make sure it's apple cider vinegar, not regular vinegar.

You have to be patient. You will not see results for quite some time. 6 months perhaps or longer.

It's imperative that you never, ever give this dog any dairy whatsoever, and any foods that contain grains, farines, soys or corns. Not ever.

The more fatty fish you can get into this dog, the more likely he is to start the digestive process. Fatty fish offer the very badly needed Omega 3 and 6. Even if you don't feed any raw, please feed these fish. You can buy canned, in water, and it can serve as a meal and you can never 'over' fish your dog.

I'm sure if you try that, you'll see amazing results.
It's going to cost you money, but then good food usually does, but you'll certainly save it from vet costs, supplements, and frustration, and your dog will be on the road to better health.

MerlinsHope
January 24th, 2008, 11:13 AM
feed her plain, or my cats like vanilla flavoured

Just so you know, plain yogurt which contains the appropriate components that you want for your dog or cat is not vanilla flavoured. It has no flavour whatsoever, or, should not contain any flavour.

It's true that appropriate yogurts are lactose free, however, you could achieve the same thing with green tripe which is more species specific.

Yogurt gives many dogs and cats the "runs".