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Dog Whispering...Any Success??

Silken
November 2nd, 2007, 07:18 AM
Has anyone here tried to use Cesar Millan's dog whispering to train your dog or dogs??:)

Ford Girl
November 2nd, 2007, 08:03 AM
Hi, I use some of his techniques - mainly I try to be a calm assertive leader, and his walking techniques, both work really well with my strong minded girl. Feeding time, getting ready for walks or car rides, walking in to the dog park, and the way we greet other dogs, not letting things escalate, etc.... And, personally, he cracks me up when I watch his shows, I think he's funny. :)

I think you really have to understand it before you use it, and talk to a trainer first and only use what works for you and your dog and what you are capable of doing. If your dog is as aggressive or had major problems it's best to leave it to a professional rather that taking cues from a TV show. I think he's bang on when it comes to leadership and how us as humans create some of the behaviors that we dislike. I find alot of things he says about the way dogs think makes alot of sense.

Everything I've tried has worked, altho I also keep in mind that we have done 3 actual classes with Dazy and I also work with a trainer when problems arise.

Alot of people don't like his techniques, some do, I think on this board you will get a 50/50 split on opinions of him.

mummummum
November 5th, 2007, 09:20 PM
Dogs don't have an ignition, a transmission and they aren't manual or automatics... in other words they don't "turn on" by one way.

You will ~ if you're smart ~ read lots of books and treat no one as gospel. I have yet to read something that didn't have at least one thing to say to me that was new.

But do I suscribe to ONE way of learnign and teaching?

Never ~ I would stop learning if I do.

allymack
November 17th, 2007, 03:26 PM
i actually tried his walking technique today, putting the leash(only because the collar wont stay up ) up higher on enzos neck and it worked quite well, it made him stay by my side and walking by/around other dogs (enzo is leash aggressive) he did really quite well, not perfect but i know you have to work on somethign for a while before he will not go after other dogs, and thanksfully the other dog he went crazy at kinda did the same thing..and i knew the other owner felt the same way as i did, frustrated beyond anything, but i was actaully quite happy about that 'episode' that he had as it was less aggressive then usual, so i guess his techniques work pretty well, but only if you work on them so it is more consistantcy(sp?!) then anything as it is with any training, but remember to keep a positive mind set when usng his methods, i think it helps. so anyone could use them and it will work.

mummummum
November 18th, 2007, 04:05 AM
I've never seern Cesar Milan and I can only imagine what you mean by placing a leash higher up on Enzo's neck.

Please, please, please....Allymack. Stop it now.

Go and take a good look a skeletal structure of a dog (Enzo) and ask about the trachcea. Ask and understand about the importance of the neck and the trachea to the dog and the sensitivity and slightness of structure of thier bones so that you understand the violence you are committing with your unwitting heavy-handedeness.

allymack
November 18th, 2007, 06:16 AM
..he said it was easier on the neck:confused:i thought they were ok:sad: and i most definately dont tug,jerk,or yank on the leash while it is higher on his neck, it just sits there but i will definately go look at the structure of a dogs neck....never really done a close up one.. thanks for your concern:) also, ford girl what walking techniques of his do you use?

CearaQC
November 18th, 2007, 10:29 AM
Cesar explains it as using a collar like they do with show dogs - that kind of neck positioning. I don't use the high neck thing though. They are selling a collar on their website that doesn't slip from the higher position and it can be seen in some of his shows, usually in red. His wife designed the collar. He also says it's not always necessary for the long term to use the collar in that position and eventually the dog will do as you desire off leash. I don't like all of Cesar's methods, but the energy part I totally agree with and practice.

Telling a pet what to do doesn't require words or physical force as long as you have their attention, they are willing to please you and not hyper.

In the short time I've had this golden retriever... if I want her to lay down beside me, I picture what I want in my head, mentally project that to her, and then point at the floor. Well at first I had to tap the floor with my finger. There's no words, there's no talking, no pleading, no yelling or demanding. I did this silent thing at the vet office and other waiting customers told me the dog was very well behaved and how did I do that. lol

It's one of those things where you have to believe in it in order for it to work. You can't go about it half hearted with the attitude, "this might not work..."

The reason I like his "energy" approach to things is because this is something that all life has, whether it's a houseplant, a bird, et al. This is sort of :offtopic: but it's something I very much love to read and study about. But the whole energy thing has been shoved to the side and scoffed at like UFOs, etc. But is a real deal and is only fairly recently being studied, observed, and tested scientifically.

I could talk about this all day.. but this isn't the right section on the forum. :laughing:

So I'm happy Cesar is talking about this on a national TV show. It works on people as well as animals, although animals are much more open to "receive." On his shows, you'll hear people say things like, "I use these methods in my job but never thought to use them on my pet!"

By all means study every form of training and configure a method that works best for your lifestyle and how you want your dog to behave. No one method is the ultimate. "Tune in" to your animal and feel out what it likes best.

thnord
November 18th, 2007, 03:26 PM
I could talk about this all day.. but this isn't the right section on the forum. :laughing:



CearaQC: I'm new here, Please enlighten me. What section are you talking about?

Tom

CearaQC
November 18th, 2007, 03:31 PM
Well the study of energy fields I would classify as "off topic" since this is a pet forum! :laughing:

That's why I said that.

thnord
November 18th, 2007, 04:06 PM
Well the study of energy fields I would classify as "off topic" since this is a pet forum! :laughing:

That's why I said that.

And I thought you were just using complicated english to say "Dog whispering"

Tom

Lissa
November 18th, 2007, 08:01 PM
The illusion collar is basically a slip (choke) collar but the device ensures that it stays as high on the neck as possible.... With or without Ceasar's contraption, this is where maximal pain is inflicted. Personally, I don't want my dog to "behave" because he is in pain or anticipating pain from a correction. I want a willing partner and active thinker who's always interacting with me and his environment to figure out what works and what I want.

If you know what motivates your dog and how to use it as a reward, you shouldn't need anything else to teach the simplest or most complex of behaviours.

allymack
November 18th, 2007, 08:15 PM
i never knew it caused them pain..i knew choke collars did ( which is admittedly (sp??) what i was doing) but i never thoguth it was that bad...:sad: i feel so bad right now! i have to go massage enzo's neck/all over my goodness, :sad: now all week he is going to be getting extra spoiled haha ..i hope he wont be mad at me...:fingerscr anyways off to make hiim a kong and give him a nice little massage

les
November 19th, 2007, 07:42 AM
I (of course ;) ) have to disagree. I'm sure with the collar up high if you were to yank on with all your strength it would hurt ... as would anything else, anywhere else (even lower on the neck) ... however ... with the collar in that position you hardly have to give any corrections and it makes a huge difference in the behaviour of the dog.

I've also done numerous corrections with the collar up high on the neck .. and my dogs are fine. They don't react .. they don't cry, whine, bark .. whatever ... they get back in where they're supposed to be.

I admit I'm a huge fan of the dog whisperer and I started walking my dogs this way. Then I adopted another shelter dog ... and I can walk 3 dogs that weigh about 200 lbs combined all together .. all beside me .. behaving ... we can pass dogs / people / cars etc and everybody knows what's expected. I would not have trusted myself with regular collars the way I used to let my dogs walk.

So personally, I wouldnt feel bad. If it made a difference (which I'm sure it did) and your leash aggressive dog was well behaved and able to pass other dogs etc. that should tell you something =)

allymack
November 19th, 2007, 02:05 PM
thanks les, yes it did help, he wasnt perfect walking past the otehr dogs i mind you but he was alot better. i didnt think it hurt him more then a regular collar when he pulled on a regular collar , and it isnt like i am yanking on it, and it does keep your dog in line with you and i find he focused more on me....

les
November 19th, 2007, 03:13 PM
Mine aren't "perfect" either .... lol ... I wish they were!! (Maybe someday we'll get there ;) ) But they are alot better then they used to be. Just the fact that I can have a pleasant walk with all of them at once is great. =)

allymack
November 19th, 2007, 03:39 PM
dogs wouldnt be any fun if they were totally perfect, but it would be nice if they would walk along faithfully by your side...which i know takes time and bonding..and training. but also having a good walk one day, definately makes me more willing to walk him the next day, and we have had a good past coup;le walks...so it just keeps making it a better time to be with him. :) today, we only used his flat buckle collar, and nothing else, and he said by my side, even when he heard dogs barking...we didnt actaully see any of them..just heard some of them going crazy in their house..so i guess its a start

t.pettet
November 19th, 2007, 08:46 PM
There is one technique that I have tried which worked really well. I have a friend who brings her dalmation over when she visits, my dogs get along with him except he has 1 annoying habit. As soon as he walks in he rushes to their food bowl and wolfs down every teeny bit. None of my dogs feel the need to challenge him - they're not food possessive and they're too small anyway - and he won't listen when his owner tells him no. He is a piggy and she is uncomfortable pulling him away from the food and he has given her a little growl in the past. So I walked over and wedged myself between him and the bowl, he looked me in the eye and tried to get around my legs to the food so I lightly bumped him with my leg and re-instated my position. Another stare from him and then he lowered his head and stood there. I said no and touched his front feet with mine, he backed up a few inches and looked at me, I repeated this until he was 2 feet from the bowl and then he sat down. I just kept edging him until he finally went over to the other side of the room and lay down. Wasn't totally sure how he'd react but guess my 'energy' let him know I wasn't going to back-down. His mum watched this and was really impressed with his submissiveness. Thank you Cesar.

allymack
November 19th, 2007, 09:05 PM
that is awesome t.pettet, i am starting to use the whole wedgin my way in to, because enzo is some what food aggresive ( i know you are probably thinking well he is either food aggressive or not food aggresive but somtimes he wont growl or anythign when i walk by, other times he will ..so i think of that as semi food aggressive:shrug:) and i will just keep wedging in, does the other dog just not go to the food bowl any more? or do you do that every time they come to your house?

t.pettet
November 19th, 2007, 09:52 PM
Hey Allymack, I have just tried this the once as they haven't been here since last week but am willing to do it again if necessary. At one point I thought I was going to get bitten but it was a war of wills and I was determined I was going to win. His mum is starting to catch on that his behaviour is too dominant and she needs to be more assertive so she's going to start watching Cesar.

allymack
November 20th, 2007, 06:01 AM
thats good t pettet, i am just going to keep it up and good for your friend for recognizing her dog is being to dominant:thumbs up

Lissa
November 20th, 2007, 02:24 PM
Hey Allymack, I have just tried this the once as they haven't been here since last week but am willing to do it again if necessary. At one point I thought I was going to get bitten but it was a war of wills and I was determined I was going to win. His mum is starting to catch on that his behaviour is too dominant and she needs to be more assertive so she's going to start watching Cesar.

I can't believe I just read this.:wall:

Unless you are a professional and a master of dog body language, you should NEVER EVER EVER do that with a strange dog. I really hope that members of the board and lurkers do not try this at ANY point in time with an aggressive dog. Even though I am not a Ceasar supporter, I'm sure he can read dog body language - obviously he doesn't listen (otherwise he wouldn't use force) but at least it gives him a quicker reaction time when the dog does lunge/bite.

If it looked like you were gonna get bitten then IMO its only a matter of time before you are with this dog. It wasn't a matter of wills it was about the dog's threshold - push him too far and you will get bit. Put the food away when this dog comes, don't take chances.
Encourage your friend to seek the help of a professional - nobody can learn what to do from an edited tv show - she is only letting the situation spiral out of control. She needs to get help (from a good positive reinforcement trainer) BEFORE this dog's behaviour does get out of hand.

What would you have done if the dog did bite? Or worse maintened the bite and shook? This is such an easy problem to manage, I don't know why anybody would risk a bite (and the dog being PTS) because their ego got in the way.

Both you and your friend should watch Sarah Kalnajs language of dogs DVD and see what happens when a professional isn't on her game (she temperment tests dogs in shelters)...
Jean Donaldson's book called "Mine: A Practical Guide to Resource Guarding" is a great book and would help your friend!

Ford Girl
November 20th, 2007, 02:34 PM
AllyMack - I use it all, from the leash training to the leadership methods, I personally like him, his show and his techniques, all of it. I don't how ever have a red zone case dog, no need for me to alpha roll her or even correct more then once. But she sure needs me and my DH to assert ourselves every day as her leader, one slip from either of us and she's happy to take the lead. I am going to catch heat from this thread, I know it. And it's ok, what works for one, doesn't always work for another. I do not feel I am causing my dog pain or fear or forcing her to do anything she doesn't want to do. And now that I have walked her this way for 2 full months, every day, I don't need to adjust the color or leash to be placed at the top of her neck, I walk her normally, and she knows to stay close, by my side and pay attention to me. At first it's alot of corrections, once handed on the tiny leash I used - not enough force to cause any kind of pain, then it becomes a frame of mind, I for see a great walk, controlled meet and greets and I make it happen. I find myself walkign tallers, feeling more confident, and in more control of my dog. It's getting tot he point that I don't use words at all.

[QUOTE=CearaQC;503461]Cesar explains it as using a collar like they do with show dogs - that kind of neck positioning. I don't use the high neck thing though. They are selling a collar on their website that doesn't slip from the higher position and it can be seen in some of his shows, usually in red. His wife designed the collar. He also says it's not always necessary for the long term to use the collar in that position and eventually the dog will do as you desire off leash. I don't like all of Cesar's methods, but the energy part I totally agree with and practice.

Telling a pet what to do doesn't require words or physical force as long as you have their attention, they are willing to please you and not hyper.

In the short time I've had this golden retriever... if I want her to lay down beside me, I picture what I want in my head, mentally project that to her, and then point at the floor. Well at first I had to tap the floor with my finger. There's no words, there's no talking, no pleading, no yelling or demanding. I did this silent thing at the vet office and other waiting customers told me the dog was very well behaved and how did I do that. lol

It's one of those things where you have to believe in it in order for it to work. You can't go about it half hearted with the attitude, "this might not work..."

The reason I like his "energy" approach to things is because this is something that all life has, whether it's a houseplant, a bird, et al. This is sort of :offtopic: but it's something I very much love to read and study about. But the whole energy thing has been shoved to the side and scoffed at like UFOs, etc. But is a real deal and is only fairly recently being studied, observed, and tested scientifically.

I could talk about this all day.. but this isn't the right section on the forum. :laughing:

So I'm happy Cesar is talking about this on a national TV show. It works on people as well as animals, although animals are much more open to "receive." On his shows, you'll hear people say things like, "I use these methods in my job but never thought to use them on my pet!"

By all means study every form of training and configure a method that works best for your lifestyle and how you want your dog to behave. No one method is the ultimate. "Tune in" to your animal and feel out what it likes best.

I agree with this post, it's about energy, and body launguage and control. It's not about leash placement, or corrections, altho those are what you adress at the beginning.

I (of course ;) ) have to disagree. I'm sure with the collar up high if you were to yank on with all your strength it would hurt ... as would anything else, anywhere else (even lower on the neck) ... however ... with the collar in that position you hardly have to give any corrections and it makes a huge difference in the behaviour of the dog.

I've also done numerous corrections with the collar up high on the neck .. and my dogs are fine. They don't react .. they don't cry, whine, bark .. whatever ... they get back in where they're supposed to be.

I admit I'm a huge fan of the dog whisperer and I started walking my dogs this way. Then I adopted another shelter dog ... and I can walk 3 dogs that weigh about 200 lbs combined all together .. all beside me .. behaving ... we can pass dogs / people / cars etc and everybody knows what's expected. I would not have trusted myself with regular collars the way I used to let my dogs walk.

So personally, I wouldnt feel bad. If it made a difference (which I'm sure it did) and your leash aggressive dog was well behaved and able to pass other dogs etc. that should tell you something =)


Les, I am a huge fan too, I have read his books and watched his shows. I also talk to real live trainers, and my vet and others on this board, so I consider myself open minded, but what Cesar practices works in my house with my critters. I personally don't think the small sideways corrections will hurt the neck worse then the chest first leash pulling choking action that happens whne you don't have control of your dog.

I think one of the concerns people have with believing things they see on TV is that we are not professionals, and we need to ensure we seek professional help if you have a dog that needs it, but for basic leadership roles and dealing with general doggie behavior I am all game for trying it out, if it doesn't work, try something else.

Ford Girl
November 20th, 2007, 02:45 PM
I can't believe I just read this.:wall:

Unless you are a professional and a master of dog body language, you should NEVER EVER EVER do that with a strange dog. I really hope that members of the board and lurkers do not try this at ANY point in time with an aggressive dog. Even though I am not a Ceasar supporter, I'm sure he can read dog body language - obviously he doesn't listen (otherwise he wouldn't use force) but at least it gives him a quicker reaction time when the dog does lunge/bite.

If it looked like you were gonna get bitten then IMO its only a matter of time before you are with this dog. It wasn't a matter of wills it was about the dog's threshold - push him too far and you will get bit. Put the food away when this dog comes, don't take chances.
Encourage your friend to seek the help of a professional - nobody can learn what to do from an edited tv show - she is only letting the situation spiral out of control. She needs to get help (from a good positive reinforcement trainer) BEFORE this dog's behaviour does get out of hand.

What would you have done if the dog did bite? Or worse maintened the bite and shook? This is such an easy problem to manage, I don't know why anybody would risk a bite (and the dog being PTS) because their ego got in the way.

Both you and your friend should watch Sarah Kalnajs language of dogs DVD and see what happens when a professional isn't on her game (she temperment tests dogs in shelters)...
Jean Donaldson's book called "Mine: A Practical Guide to Resource Guarding" is a great book and would help your friend!

I agree with this too, I don't try and use these techniques with other dogs, espeically dogs that are not yours who do not have any kind of relationship with me - if you watch the shows again, he starts each learning session with a leashed walk, it builds a relationship, burns energy, builds trust. Doesn't matter to the dog that he was in your house, at all. You are not his leader, where was his owner? Scared or not, she should take him away from the food or you should pick the food up, even the best behaved dogs would eat food sitting in a dog dish, some are piggies, mine would eat the food every time she went to your place, you are very lucky you didn't get bit. Even tho I love his show and his methods, I only use it with my own dog - who I can read like a book and control. On top of all of this training, management is the best way to ensure dogs are safe, next time he comes over, pick up the food, or let him eat it. Or, tell your friend to keep him on leash.

The only thing I've done with other dogs based on this is when I enter a home I do not aknowledge hyper activity greatings, jumping, or speak to the dog until they settle, I do this at the dog park too, but I would never address aggression or resource gaurding, leave that to the professionals IMO! It's ok that you pointed out the behavior to the owner, but she is the one who is going to need to change her interactions and behaviors.

allymack
November 20th, 2007, 03:14 PM
i totally agree with everything you just said Ford Girl! i didnt think i was causing enzo any pain, or forcing him to do anything her didnt want to...also mummummum just to let you know, his show is on tonight on the national geographic channel at 6 atlantic time, i am not sue if oyu get the same channels or anything, but just incase you wanted to watch it..:)

Ford Girl
November 20th, 2007, 03:54 PM
i totally agree with everything you just said Ford Girl! i didnt think i was causing enzo any pain, or forcing him to do anything her didnt want to...also mummummum just to let you know, his show is on tonight on the national geographic channel at 6 atlantic time, i am not sue if oyu get the same channels or anything, but just incase you wanted to watch it..:)

Allymack, I see that Enzo's a border collie, do you do anything with him that allows him to use his natural insticts? This would help his over all behavior, these dogs are meant to have a job...work work work....:laughing:

I'd get him a back pack too, strap it on, load on some weight, your walks will mean alot more to him if they had a purpose, a job, and it would burn more of that working energy. I've see dogs change the second you strap a back pack on them...it's almost instant....then all he needs you to do is to tell him where to deliver the goods. :thumbs up

allymack
November 20th, 2007, 04:03 PM
yes, i have been thinking about getting him a back pack, and i am now looking out for one for him, so if anbody knows where to get one, it wuld be appreciated, i also see cesar starting to use the back packs more often too, it makes a 30 min walk feel like an hour (the amount ofexercise) and a back pack will be a big help , becaus ethen i wont have ot carry his stuff to the field, he can carry it him self, haha :)

les
November 20th, 2007, 04:15 PM
I got backpacks for my dogs at Petsmart. Here's the one I got: http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753840&cp=&sr=1&origkw=dog+backpack&kw=dog+backpack&parentPage=search&keepsr=1

It's called Outward Hound Dog Excursion Backpack. You might want to bring your dog to try one on. Mine wear medium even though based on weight they would be large =)

t.pettet
November 20th, 2007, 10:45 PM
Lissa - guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I have been a dog groomer for the past 20 odd years and I do read body language on a daily basis. This dalmation isn't aggressive but he is dominant and hasn't had anyone challenge him over his food possessiveness. There was no force, I was simply taking over my space (my dog's dish) and letting him know I was in charge of it. He is a very even tempered dog, very obedient on walks, comes when called off leash and has no issues obeying his mum. She got him from a rescue org. about 3 mos. ago and since he's only 1 yr. old it is imperative that he learns the limits a.s.a.p.

Ford Girl
November 21st, 2007, 11:22 AM
I got backpacks for my dogs at Petsmart. Here's the one I got: http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753840&cp=&sr=1&origkw=dog+backpack&kw=dog+backpack&parentPage=search&keepsr=1

It's called Outward Hound Dog Excursion Backpack. You might want to bring your dog to try one on. Mine wear medium even though based on weight they would be large =)

Dazy is getting the same one for Christmas!! :laughing: I ordered large tho? Hope it fits.

Allymack, I ordered mine off Amazon.ca, it was $20 less then any store I walked in to in Calgary. They can be expensive, and some have all the bells and whistles, but you don't really need it all unless you are an avid hiker or back packer yourself.

allymack
November 21st, 2007, 02:29 PM
thanks for the tip ford girl, i wil look in to that for enzo, and he will be getting his name tag collar as well :)

breeze
November 21st, 2007, 02:43 PM
Bree has a backpack and she loves it..just remember to start off light and move up on the weight slowly.. and just make sure that the weight is distrubuted evenly.. if you find that he is limping or any distrest either lighten the pack or just take a break and try it again the next day..
It took Bree three days to get use to it and to increse the weight to where I wanted it.. (no more free ride for her) lol lol lol now she can carry her own stuff to the park lol lol lol lol
in the winter I would increse the weight very very slowly because of the snow until enzo is use to it..
I use some of what he say and the other things I just ignore..
I don't use words anymore just a shhhhh ing sound if I want her attention..