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New puppy in the house

Freyja
October 7th, 2007, 10:53 PM
Hello!!

Three years ago I adopted a reserve dog. Many people on the board then helped me out BIG time with her. She is now an amazing dog!!!

Today I adopted a 3 mo old lab X who was found abandoned in a dump. He has been fostered for about a month and came home with us today.

My question is regarding dominance behaviour. My understanding is that Lindy as a female and the oldest and the resident dog should be the dominant one. Problem (or is it?) is that she is letting him (the puppy) do some things that appear dominant. Such as take toys from her, hump, sleep on her bed. I have decided to crate him at night until we are sure of good behaviour in the house. So do I just let them sort it out if she is not willing to put him in his place??

hazelrunpack
October 8th, 2007, 08:57 AM
Hi, Freyja.

I'm no expert, but we do have 8 dogs that we've gathered over the past 5 years. We've found that you can manipulate pack order to some extent but that it's very tricky. We've used 'artificial' pack standing to boost the confidence of one dog, but it only works because the dogs that are now "beneath her", but are dominant to her in their own minds, are pretty laid back. Forcing subordination or submission on a truly alpha leader will cause problems.

My feeling is that if your older, resident girl doesn't seem to mind (i.e., she's not raising hackles, charging the newbie, or seeming totally cowed by him), I'd let them work it out on their own. If she wants to be dominant to him, she'll begin to exert her authority later, when he's grown up some. Right now, she may just be pulling her punches because she's playing with a puppy and knows it.

Our Cass, although hubby and I call her the Princess-Queen, is not dominant at all. Although she was here first and is the oldest (and, I might add, the wisest :D) dog in the pack, she's definitely not anywhere near the top of the social ranking. She plays nicely with all the dogs and will sometimes discipline the younger dogs as if they were puppies, but she lets everyone roll her during play and show their dominance by humping her. She was 10 months old when our second dog arrived as a pup and she was getting rolled by the little snot within the week. :D

At our house, the two oldest boys are dominant to all the girls (even Princess-Queen Cass :dog:) and the younger boy. This may change as the younger boy grows up--he may join Ember and Cole at the top somewhere--but we'll let them work it out on their own. We only interfere if things are getting too rough.

Chicklet
October 8th, 2007, 09:35 AM
In most cases an adult dog recognizes that its just a baby,
and treats it as such,
Same as us humans, But as it gets older things change.

Freyja
October 8th, 2007, 10:44 AM
Is is okay to let him take over her bed????!!!

Freyja
October 8th, 2007, 11:24 AM
Here is a picture of Sawyer when they found him in the dump. 29661

Chicklet
October 8th, 2007, 12:33 PM
So hard to believe that people could actually be that cruel.
Think someone needs to throw the ones responsible for doing this in the Trash to die.:evil:

If your that concerned about Sawyer taking over Lindy bed,
Why not buy him his own bed, If he goes in Lindy bed just remove him, tell him no and put him in his, maybe even put it in his crate with him nights to help him realize which is his,

My first dog had her own bed, But when I got my second one, He tried taking her bed & everything else over, She started Drooling so bad it kinda freaked us out, She'd just back up from everything and let him rule, But as he got older things changed, They now share everything,
And are Totally inseparable

hazelrunpack
October 8th, 2007, 01:03 PM
Is is okay to let him take over her bed????!!!

Do they both have beds? As Chicklet suggested, having two beds would be helpful.

We have 8 dogs running around the house and more dog furniture than people furniture. It's sort of like musical dog beds here--the dog nests and Kuranda beds fill up "first come first served" and he or she who hesitates sleeps on the carpet or crawls up onto a human bed or the loveseat. :D They share with no problems, even though someone else may have gotten to their preferred sleeping surface first.

Is Lindy defending her bed as her territory? If not, it's probably not that big a deal to her, either--all she needs is an alternative comfy place to rest her bones. :D

So sad that Sawyer was found in the dump. :sad: What are people thinking? :mad:

Thank goodness Sawyer's luck has taken a turn for the best! :thumbs up Thank you for taking him in.

Freyja
October 8th, 2007, 01:54 PM
Alright. So I set up an exercise pen with Sawyer's crate and a water dish in the dining room. Lindy's cushion is in the living room. The plan is to put Sawyer in his crate at night. During the day when we are not home or won't be back for longer than 4-6 hours we will put him in him pen with wee wee pads.

When Sawyer lies on Lindy's cushion, Lindy just moves to another place to lie down, she prefers her place but won't fight for it. She is not as thrilled about the boy today as she was yesterday. He still is humping her and biting at her ruff. She is baring her teeth at him, but not being aggressive at all. She is just trying to get away. I will keep my eye on them. Playing is fine and Lindy needs to assert herself, but if he is being a royal pain then I will put him in his pen/crate. How does this plan sound to you experienced ones??!!:dog: v.:dog:

hazelrunpack
October 8th, 2007, 02:06 PM
Yep, crate or pen is fine if Lindy seems to need a break. And never let them together unsupervised until their relationship stabilizes and you're comfortable they get along well.

One anecdote--we had a middle-aged black lab and we threw a puppy into the mix. The lab, Luke, was such an old gent that he put up with the puppy's antics for a long time! We kept hoping he'd put the pup in his place...but it took so long that when he finally did, it took us completely by surprise. Luke objected with teeth bared and a ferocious growl and snarl and Puppy ran screaming into the back room and hid under the bed. :eek: Being unsuspecting first-time two-dog owners, we were apalled! We scolded Luke and then ran to Puppy.

Not a mark on the little wooss! :rolleyes: Luke did not deserve a scolding--he was acting properly and (in retrospect) downright gently to tell Puppy enough was enough. Unfortunately, he never did it again--likely because we scolded him! :o And we felt really guilty about that--because Puppy would have done much better if Luke had continued to discipline the little munchkin as needed. Would have made our job much easier, too! :p

The moral is--don't overreact if/when Lindy finally decides she needs to give Sawyer a lesson or two. It looks pretty harsh, but if there's no blood, no prolonged attack, and no continued yelping, it's probably okay! Just supervise and move in as calmly as you can to separate them if things seem to be getting out of hand...er...paw. :D

Freyja
October 8th, 2007, 02:10 PM
:D Great!! Thanks muchly!

t.pettet
October 8th, 2007, 08:46 PM
When the new pup's antics becomes too much Lindy will assert herself and put him in his place. Try not to interfere unless she goes after him in an overly aggressive manner and doesn't back off even when he's shown submission. These are trying times for your older dog and a period of adjustment is needed for her and your young dog has to learn what is and is not acceptable behaviour - what better teacher than Lindy.

Freyja
October 8th, 2007, 11:19 PM
It is hard to watch!! She is such a good dog, very calm and has a lovely disposition. To watch him bug her constantly, and her just try to get away is hard. I feel sorry for her. I feel like I probably should have found an older dog for her. She did pin him down in play today but he is always nipping at her ruff, and the humping!!!!! She leaves if he comes up and wants to lie on her bed. He is a bit of a sh$t!! I put him in his pen a couple of times just to give her some peace.

Freyja
October 9th, 2007, 11:29 PM
You are right. Lindy is getting a bit more assertive with him. She still looks up at me sometimes when he is pulling at her ruff as if to say "Moooommmm, he's doing it again!!!"

I have been trying to limit the rough housing to outside only and not allow it in the living room.

Wondering about food time. I have been feeding Lindy first and she has started wolfing down her food. Then I feed Sawyer but Lindy is anxious to get at it. I know that Sawyer needs to eat, but from a pack perspective, should I let Lindy approach his food??

t.pettet
October 10th, 2007, 10:17 PM
I would feed Lindy and pup at the same time but in sepatate areas of the room. Would also block Lindy from eating his food as he needs all the nutrition he can get at this early stage of his life.

mummummum
October 10th, 2007, 10:30 PM
Just want to congratulate you on your new puppy ~ he sounds like he's a handful!

Freyja
October 11th, 2007, 02:40 PM
Thanks!! He is settling in pretty well. 29717

hazelrunpack
October 11th, 2007, 03:15 PM
Thanks!! He is settling in pretty well. 29717

What a doll he is! :lovestruck: They certainly look companionable in that photograph, Freyja. :D But I know from experience that still shots can be very deceptive. :laughing:

We enforce a rule during eating--no one approaches anyone else's food--except us. We make it a point to occasionally have our fingers in their bowls, move their bowls around, pick them up, put them down, just to make sure they don't get too food possessive, but they aren't allowed to approach each other if they're eating in the same room. We figure they don't need to duke it out over their food--they'll settle status disputes elsewhere. The rule works pretty well, except once in a while when someone abandons a chew. :dog:

happycats
October 11th, 2007, 07:03 PM
OMG that first picture is so heartbreaking:sad:. Thank God for :angel:"s like you, to give these sweet pups a second chance! The second pic, looks like a different (happy) dog!!

I did watch a show about pack mentality, and it seems that as long as all the dogs in the family know that the "humans" are alpha, the rest of the"dog" pack should have no issues, as long as they see you as the leader.

TeriM
October 11th, 2007, 07:34 PM
Congrats on the new pup. I agree with the others and you should feed them together. My two are fed together but eat in seperate rooms and the eldest always gets her food first.

I also agree with letting them work things out themselves (to a point) but I would greatly discourage any humping actions. That is very bad dog "etiquette" and should be disciplined. My younger dog and his brother went through a humping phase with each other and that just meant that the instigator got a "time out" (removed from play until he was calm again). They figured it out pretty fast :).

Good luck, I love the pic of the two of them :cloud9:.

Frenchy
October 11th, 2007, 07:52 PM
Sorry I'm late ! Welcome to pets.ca ! They are too cute together , and that first pic , sooo heartbreaking :sad: I'm so glad he was saved :thumbs up

MysticRealm
October 11th, 2007, 11:39 PM
He is gonna be HUGE! Look at the size of those paws!

Freyja
October 12th, 2007, 11:07 AM
Shh shh now.
*Freyja sits with fingers in her ears* I'm not listening, I'm not listening.:eek:

hazelrunpack
October 12th, 2007, 12:27 PM
Shh shh now.
*Freyja sits with fingers in her ears* I'm not listening, I'm not listening.:eek:

he he Actually, though, those paws don't look that much bigger than Lindy's. :fingerscr :D