Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

g s crosses the line

heidiho
May 24th, 2004, 12:13 PM
Well,my g s is gonna go live with my ex fiance in ohio,she has lots of property,and a german shepherd about his age,yesterday he had a dentabone and would not let me near him,was in his crate eating it,watching me the whole tim,i got up to go to the kitchen and he got up and started barking at me,hair was up on his back like ihave never seent it stand before,after he got done barking at me he went back to crate..It is even to the point of if he has a bone in the living room and i call him over to me,he comes but hunches over and stiffens up.I love him more than anything but cannot live like this,i dont want a dog that i will always wonder if he is gonna turn on me.My ex's sister always said she would love to have him,i will miss him like i have never missed anything,cried for hours last night.I think it will be best,right now i live in an apt,and i know he gets bored,and i feel bad,he played great with her dog i think it will be best for everyone........Gonna break my heart though

Spoiled
May 24th, 2004, 12:52 PM
Awww, thats so sad. :( Your heart must be broken. :( :(

Could you try telling him to sit before you aproach him? I always used to do this with my dog. Also you could try hand feeding him, or letting him chew on the bone while it is in your hand.

heidiho
May 24th, 2004, 01:01 PM
It is the worst feeling ever,i am positvely devasted.He is my bud..I have tried everything,feeding him in a different spot,having him sit and putting a treat in his bowl,hand feeding.Acting like i am eating first from his bowl.He just will not relax and let me near him,yesterday caught me completely off guard,the lady i was on the phone with was like what is your dog barking at,i told her me..His hair straight down his back was up,scary sight..I also dont have the money to get professional help either,and now i just cant trust him.He actually stiffend up when he was drinking his water yestreday also.I dont recall ever being this hurt over anything or anyone,we have our routine in the morning after i blow dry my hair he wants me to blowdry him,after i brush my teeth i have to do his..I have been trying to see if he is getting better with this and it is just getting worse,maybe it will be for the best i live in a small apt,he will be going to the country in dayton,ohio..Wow i just cant see myslef without him,i take him everywhere i go, i will miss him more than words can say///////// :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

Luba
May 24th, 2004, 02:49 PM
I'm going to be the 'mean' one here!

Sad Spoiled? Probably the best thing to happen to the dog, to be rehomed!!
(Hopefully properly)

Large breed, young dog in an apartment. What were you thinking, or actually 'not' thinking. Now through the dogs boredom and your lack of planning, he's being rehomed!!

Hope you've learned a lesson, and the dog I hope gets a more appropriate situation to reside.

Begin your verbal attacks towards me but this is exactly the kind of irresponsibility that leaves dogs dumped in shelters, tied up to the door of a pound, left at a vets or euthanized.

I'm happy you atleast are rehoming him yourself, this is 'not' his fault!

heidiho
May 24th, 2004, 02:56 PM
I dont need your bs. I got him when i lived in kentucky was gonna get married to someone who works for nascar,so lets see i could taken him or let himstay with my ex who is on the road 5 days a week..I have read a million articles that say german shepherds adapt just fine to apt.living..And you dont know me from adam to assume i would dump him in a shelter,NOT in a million years,as i wrote before i would never do that i would just live with this problem,today of all days i dont need your f%^% up comments,so please go to another thread and make some one else feel like ****,you do it so well....

Luba
May 24th, 2004, 02:59 PM
People dislike hearing the truth, you're no exception.

heidiho
May 24th, 2004, 03:08 PM
I have no problem hearing the truth,i also know my situation,and the truth is i got a dog under the assuption i was getting married,it didnt work out,so i had the choice of taking the dog with me or letting my ex keep him,i choose with me,i did all the right things,i dont need you to try and make me think different.Have a good day..

Lucky Rescue
May 24th, 2004, 03:21 PM
And what experience does your ex have training dogs? What will happen to Damien if the ex can't handle the problem? Will the puppy be abused, exiled to life on a chain, abandoned, sold to a junk yard or passed on to someone else?

I am really wondering and concerned about the fate of this puppy and asking a civil question, so please don't reply in an angry and abusive manner.

Luba
May 24th, 2004, 03:23 PM
Excellent point LR! Good questions.

cutelittlemako
May 24th, 2004, 03:24 PM
Unfortunately, when looking at different breeds of dogs, it's very hard to get a thourough understanding of what the breed is really like. Most books, websites, breeders... Will tell you only tell you the good stuff about the breed, and make the bad stuff seem trivial - when in fact, the bad stuff your dog did will probably make a lasting impression on you. I researched Great Danes for over a year before getting mine (books, internet, talked to a lot of breeders...), but NOTHING could prepare me for what I was about to encounter. Oskar was awsome. Everything I read about Great Danes was right on! He was extremely affectionate, gently and a beautiful dog. But he was a BIG Dog! That was the downside, he got everywhere because of his size. Nothing was safe from his reach. Great Danes are also hard to train. When I got Oskar, I lived at my mom's house and I was planning on moving here, in Ottawa, to go to University. As Oskar got older, I knew I couldn't bring him with me, so I left him with my brother (he lives with my mom too). That was very hard for me to do, but I had no choice. I know it's hard to understand, but sometimes we make mistakes, and most of all, we learn from these mistakes. I don't consider myself a bad pet owner (I now have a cat and a puppy), but I do see things differently. The worst thing for someone to do is chastize you about mistakes you have done in your life.

Heidiho, I hope YOU get better. And,as it was in my situation, I'm sure your dog will do much better in another house. I hope this has not discouraged you from ever getting other pets, because it should not!

When you do bring your puppy to this new house, try to stay there a bit (like a week or more if you can). Make the change gradually, start slowly and wait until he gets used to the new surroundings.

Good luck!

heidiho
May 24th, 2004, 03:48 PM
Are all of you crazy????? The dog is going to a GREAT home ,i am not some cruel, evil person.My god,my ex's sister has a great family,the money and time to get the food problem fixed,they are not those people who chain there dog out in the backyard,gimme a break,the fate of my puppy is awesome,i love animals just as much as the next person,that is why i am making this choice a very unselfish choice at that,because i love this dog more than you guys think,he is my pal,we go everywhere together...I wouldnt just dump him somewhere.

Princesss04
May 24th, 2004, 04:04 PM
I pray you never have children! So the first time they give you problems you will not take and give them to someone else. That dog loves you try to work with him a little longer why would you give up on him? THAT IS CRAZY! :mad:

heidiho
May 24th, 2004, 04:10 PM
Because the problem is getting worse,not better..Yesterday he actually came out of his crate to come growl and bark at me when i walked past him,it was a scary sight,the hair was raised straight up from neck to tail,i was in complete shock,and now he is starting to do the same thing if i am by his water bowl,i dont have enough money to go to a professional trainer..I love this dog also,but i cannot have a dog that i have to fear...Funny you say that the dog loves me,cause i was just thinking god does my dog even love me,if he did why would he get that pissed and come after me growling and barking when all i did was walk by his crate?????/ :( :(

chico2
May 24th, 2004, 04:13 PM
I don't know much about agression in a dog,but I suppose he had his reasons.
I've learned a lot being on this board and it takes a lot more than just loving to be a puppy-owner.
I don't doubt that you cared about him,you are probably lacking experience with puppies.
I am hoping the people who get him can take him for obedience-classes and will be able to spend more time with him than you were and I do feel sorry for both you and your puppy,I could not imagine giving any of my cats to anyone else....Hopefully you'll keep in contact with the new owners and tell them about the problem you had,so they are prepared to deal with it in a good way.
I met a prime example of a GS pup(7 month) yesterday having finished the first course in obedience training,an absolutely amazing puppy.

heidiho
May 24th, 2004, 04:20 PM
I know the people very well,my ex's sister,they have a boxer and german shepherd,and when we used to all go over there they all played great together for hours..They live in the country and i love his family,they are great people.I just hope the people here realize that what i am doing here is the right thing for him and me,i dont want him to be a year old and still have this problem then give him away,i know being that he is just 5 months old he will be very happy and will adjust,i will be the one that doesnt get over this.I know in my heart this is the right thing and this is the hardest thing i have ever had to do.Yeah i know about puppies,this is my first with a large breed so the rules are alot different now...

heidiho
May 24th, 2004, 04:29 PM
For princess dont worry have no interest in having children and for chico,exiled to a life on a chain,junkyard dog...You cant be for real,that is the most absurd thing ever said to me is is almost comical,this dog will be WELL taken care of and spoiled,they just happen to have the yard and playmates he needs if i could i would buy a house get the best trainer i would do anything to keep us together,so please if anyone else has stupid comments like that and then have the nerve to say dont reply with an angry answer then dont say stupid ^&*like that..

Lucky Rescue
May 24th, 2004, 05:12 PM
You cant be for real,that is the most absurd thing ever said to me is is almost comical,this dog will be WELL taken care of and spoiled,they just happen to have the yard and playmates he needs

Having a yard and playmates is not going to fix your puppy's problems. Does having a playmate cure food aggression, do you think?

And if you think what I asked you (about being passed around, abandoned or chained) is "stupid" then you really need to educate yourself about what happens to dogs with behavioral problems, because you are truly clueless.

You should also try and learn a vocabulary that doesn't include 4-letter words. It makes you look..ummm...well - stupid!

Luba
May 24th, 2004, 05:20 PM
I hope you have advised the entire family of the dogs current aggression problems and I hope they do not have young children. Your dog has food aggression problems which were probably aggrivated by your teasing of him by repeatidly taking his food awhile while he was eating (as you said so yourself). Think of how this situation will go, if he is in a home with other dogs. There can be and just may be a violent fight that ensues.

I do recall offering you some very very good advise on how to curb the food aggression and you were more consumed with how aggrivating it was for you to spend so much time feeding him...remember that? Training a dog does not happen over night. I have seen dogs (adult dogs) who have made complete turn arounds. Your dog is a pup and very easily worked out of a habit like that...IF you are consistent.

I suggest, that perhaps you should enroll the dog into an obedience course near the home he will be staying / living in and you should pay for it.(hopefully to get him started off right).

When is he going to his new home?

BTW your friends GSD thats his age, it is a male/female?

cutelittlemako
May 24th, 2004, 05:30 PM
Ok, so stuff changed in her life (she broke up with her boyfriend), which made her financial situation different from when she got the dog. For the benefit of the dog, she decided to keep it, since the ex-boyfriend is on the road all the time. Now, she can't afford training - which is normal for a person that has been through such changes in so little time. So why not let go of this instead of making her feel bad. If you love animals so much, try to help her get the puppy used to his new life. The welfare of the puppy is at stake here - and personal attacks are not going to help the pup!

If some of you are participating in rescue operations, you should know how to help her teach her ex's sister how to care for the dog - i'm sure you guys have had to place dogs that we're in similar situation. Good for the dog if he goes into a wealthy family - more money for trainers.

And maybe actually believing what people say would be good here, because either way, disbelief will not help the situation.

heidiho
May 24th, 2004, 05:39 PM
I am not clueless,i know what happens to dogs like that,he is not going to a home where people are that way...And for luba saying i should pay for it,if i had the money to do that i wouldnt be sending him,as i wrote before that i do not have the money to send him for training or i would..And yes i think him getting out and having a huge yard to run in will not cure im of this problem but it will be good for him.Yes they know what is going on,obviously,iwouldnt jsut let him go there and not tell them give me more credit then that...And i never said i didnt have the patience to fix it,i have tried quite a few different things and he just does not back off and it is getting worse not better.So didnt someone here i think luba say he shouldnt be in an apt anyway??? So which is it fix the problem and then it is ok that he lives in the apt??? Thanks mako at least someone gets it here..

Goldenmom
May 24th, 2004, 05:39 PM
Heidi, while emailing back and forth with you on Friday, I made a point of strongly discouraging you giving bones to the dog. This is why all this happened, you gave him a bone, which a food aggressive dog should not have. If he is to live happily ever after in his new home, I highly recommend they do not give him bones either. It could be a great home, but without proper training, this dog will not make it.

Heather

Luba
May 24th, 2004, 05:43 PM
She indicated her decision to rehome was because of behavioural problems not financial. Though she made mention before of financial difficulties she didn't indicate keeping the dog was a problem.

From her very first post her issues were all related to her dog and behaviour problems. Many people have offered advise, some good advise I may add.

First she doesn't want to spend the 'time' to do the training, it takes too long. Then she doesn't want to feed a puppy more then 2x a day, because she just doesn't want to..her vet told her not to. I never ever heard of such nonesense from a vet! Someone else said their vet gave them the same advise on feeding 2x a day to a young pup, this is a vet I wouldn't go to.

Even if you work you can feed your dog morn, eve and night.

Goldenmom makes a good point about the dog and bones, something for me to think about (not with my Sadie just in general). :D

We have offered some great advise and yes some of us have been ticked off at times from her posts. She has had opportunities to change things and to me it did not seem 'from her own words' that she wished to put in a valiant effort. Much of it seemed like (in my observation) that she wanted the problem to be solved now.

I truly do hope this has been an educational experience. If this is your first dog heidiho then you realize now there is a lot to learn. Most of us progress through ownership, and learn as we go. Don't be afraid to take advise.

Now, the dog is being rehomed with aggressive behavioural problems, into a new situation with another dog.

There are many things to look at here, thoughts to explore.
Perhaps this decision was made in haste? Perhaps from fear?
Is this the 'best' situation to put this dog, that family and 'their' dog in?

Can there be other issues regarding this dogs behaviour? Is there a physical problem? Brain tumour for instance causing the aggression. That may sound far fetched to some of you (no pun with the fetched), but I have seen dogs including puppies act very peculiar because of illness.

More to ponder.

heidiho
May 24th, 2004, 06:00 PM
You please show me where i said it takes to long?? THAT IS BS.i NEVER SAID THAT. And guess what my ex just called and said his sister thinks three dogs are enough,how do you like that??? I am in a tight financial situation i am doing everything i can to do the right thing for my puppy i would do anything i could to change this,my family does not have money so i cant ask them,i am trying my best..And about all the advice you said i got here,how many times do i have to say my dog DOESNT RESPOND TO ANY OF IT.He is not fearful of anything i have tried.Any more suggestions Miss Luba?? Queen of know it all//

Lucky Rescue
May 24th, 2004, 06:03 PM
Ok, so stuff changed in her life (she broke up with her boyfriend), which made her financial situation different from when she got the dog

That was never given as a reason. The reason for giving him up is because of his food aggression. heidiho even compared him to the exorcist!

I, and others, spent time posting links and giving advice on how to fix food aggression. This is a 5 month old baby, and could certainly have overcome this problem. heidiho followed none of the advice and prefers to solve the problem by dumping the puppy. I'm merely asking how the new owners are going to handle this aggression. If heidiho, who says she loved this puppy, was not willing to work with him on his aggression, why would someone else - who does not love him - be willing?

I see stuff like this all the time, and the animal either ends up being passed from home to home, abused, chained or dumped in a shelter or on the street.

chico2
May 24th, 2004, 06:04 PM
Heidiho...I am sorry,but were did I say your dog would become a Junk-Yard dog!! Please read your posts before you answer or name,names...

chico2
May 24th, 2004, 06:13 PM
So now what are you going to do with Damien? He's not going to your ex's sister?

heidiho
May 24th, 2004, 06:16 PM
My apologies to you then,but someone did say that..What part of this are you guys not getting,yes he is the damn exorcist when it comes to food or bones,just like i am sure some of your children are at times.MY DOG DOES NOT BACK DOWN.............................................. .................................................. ...And since everyone is anti wacking or yelling at your dog,i am not sure what else to do.I have done alot of thinGs i read here that you guys said to do.HELLO!!! ISNT WORKING.....So what now??????? I am trying my best.....

Luba
May 24th, 2004, 06:23 PM
If it's intended to upset or aggrivate me by calling me Miss Luba, I'll let ya know it's actually quite flattering. :D

I suppose when you stated it took you 45mins to feed your dog through the method I suggested, and it was too long for you to do....you continued to feed him this way?

How many times did people tell you to stop taking his bowl when he was eating before you finally agreed to stop? Remember you were actually considering giving him 'a good whack'! You say that the people on here area against hitting dogs, well aren't you? Or would you rather hit him?

You should be greatful to the wonderful people (even take me out of the equation if you dislike me) that have offered their advise, suggestions, time and heartfelt concern to you and your dog. You come across as a very ungreatful individual.

It is apparent this dog is too much for you to handle.

Here are rescues in your area, perhaps they can assist:


German Shepherd Rescue of Arizona
Contact: Jack Gartland
P.O. Box 40142
Tucson, AZ 85717
Telephone: 520-325-9649,
(Scottsdale area #) 480-350-4971
e-mail: jtgartland@dellnet.com

German Shepherd Rescue of Arizona
Contact: Tina Singer/Tony Gardman
1700 East Curry Road
Tempe, Arizona 85281
Telephone: (480) WOOF-555

German Shepherds Dog Rescue of Southern Arizona

Contact: Dianna Van Erem
e-mail: eremshep@juno.com

Ron and Margaret Nunally
PO Box 19696
Happy Jack, AZ (Phoenix Area)
520- 477-2216

Cheryl Wasar
Phoenix, AZ 85022
602-971-9346

Shepherds Chance
Contact: Nancy Zeiher
23003 W. Durango St
Buckeye, AZ 85326
Telephone: 602-291-2272
e-mail: shepherdschance@aol.com

Miss Luba :D

heidiho
May 24th, 2004, 06:43 PM
I would never turn my dog in..ever.....Ijust called a private trainer she is coming over firday at 4:30 $ 78.00 an hour,dont know how i will pay for it but i will figure something out,i do love my dog very much..Miss Luba..

Luba
May 24th, 2004, 06:51 PM
Before you commit yourself to this trainer you may want to discuss your situation with a couple of the rescues in your area and get their opinion.

The rescues would know of appropriate obedience trainers to refer you to. This price sounds very high to me, and since you are having financial difficulties you may want to get the opinion of the rescues.

You don't necessarily have to 'turn' your dog in to a rescue they may be able to post your dogs adoption availability and assist you with screening. However, each rescue operates independantly and separately.

Rescues are 'not' shelters like the spca or humane society or city pound. They are operated *mostly* on a non profit basis by people who love animals and wish for them to be homed appropriately.

Until such time, if this were my dog I would feed him as I suggested for you to do, piece by piece one at a time. Reread my original reply to you on how to do this.

melanie
May 24th, 2004, 08:57 PM
now all posts i have ever written to heidi were tolerant, patient and trying to be helpful, i waded through all the crap and tried really really hard to be nice and good (so out of character) and bite my tounge.
but for gods sake, i dont think you should have damien and i think he has a better chance elsewhere even if rehoused by a shelter.. you have recieved literally a books worth of great and varied advice here and you are yet to report on the success of much of it or explain what you are doing, your posts are so eratic, last week you said you had a trainer, this week no money, no trainer. you have never once mentioned going to dog school with him and i really doubt you have even bothered to try. you seem to be looking for the quick fix, well you wont get it here or most anywhere else.
you say you got damian because you thought you were getting married, well i thought i might go to the shops today but i wont go get a dog to do it with, i dont think that is any reason to get a dog, what does marriage = dog ownership?. if you were that broke yesterday, how rich were you five months ago when you got him?? i cant imagine a millionaire. please dont get a dog again, the rest of the world shouldnt have to deal with your problems when it goes wrong and dont bother us about it :mad:

i suppose there is no point saying it but please ring the numbers luba gave you and talk to them about the situation

luba i now crown you- Queen luba, queen of some stuff and a nice plastic purple flower pot :D :D

Luba
May 24th, 2004, 09:09 PM
Mel, I should just take a pic of that tacky flower pot and show it to you LOL
I'm sure someone gave it to me with some cheap artificial flowers in it once (that my dog destroyed years ago)

Lucky Rescue
May 24th, 2004, 09:13 PM
And about all the advice you said i got here,how many times do i have to say my dog DOESNT RESPOND TO ANY OF IT.

So you try something for 10 minutes and it doesn't work, so you try something else and so on. This makes the situation worse.

You were told many times to be consistant and patient, and that the advice you were given would work.

I refuse to believe a 5 month puppy is a hopeless case, but I really think you should contact the people that Miss Luba so kindly spent her time looking up for you, and get your dog into a rescue, while he is still young enough to be saved by people who are actually willing to take the time to work with him.

NO rescue will take an aggressive adult dog, so do it now, before he IS beyond repair.

chico2
May 24th, 2004, 10:05 PM
I agree with you all,he can be rehomed as a puppy,by specific GS -rescuers and you would do well and for Damiens sake to contact them.
Grown dogs with behaviour-problems will almost always be put down,as a puppy he has a great chance to relearn his behavior with someone who knows how to do it.
I've read all your posts from before,regarding what foods to buy,how to feed him etc...and I am assuming you don't really know what to do.
I think you should definetly contact a rescuer,you might get some help,if you really think you can handle Damien down the road,because as you know he'll be a big dog and will need some serious training.If not,I am sure they can find him a good home.

heidiho
May 25th, 2004, 09:58 AM
You did say no bones i know,it was just a denta bone,i did not think he would freak out on me with that..I am just really confused right now,i am not a bad person i am trying to figure out what is best for him.I dont want to let him go,but i do want what will be best for him,will he be happier with a yard to run in??? Will he be happier living with me in the apt??? I just dont know,so i dont need to be told what a bad person i am because i am not,i love animals just as much as the next,i just think even if we get through this will he be happy in the apt?? I talked to my ex yesterday and his sister said they changed there mind,and they we the only ones i would of been comfortable with letting him go to..I just dont know what is the right thing to do.. :( :(

Goldenmom
May 25th, 2004, 10:13 AM
Heidi, a DentaBONE is just that, a bone! A bone is a bone, no matter which way you look at it.

I highly agree with Luba about calling a Rescue in your area. These rescues deal with that specific breed only and know a lot about them. Many times they will place the dog in a Foster Home to help train it and get it settled and then they find a home that wants that specific breed only.

Please give them a call today and just listen to what they have to say. They are there for people like you who are desperate. Do not just call whatever trainer you find in the phonebook. You need references first!!

Take care and I hope this all turns out best for the dog.

Heather

heidiho
May 25th, 2004, 10:27 AM
I will.. thanks

Princesss04
May 25th, 2004, 11:16 AM
Why don't you sell your computer because you anoy the crap out of everyone when you are on it any ways and take the money and buy a good dog trainer and there you are happy and so are we! :mad:

heidiho
May 25th, 2004, 11:44 AM
Laura 5 ,I am not really sure they seem to think they know it al.I know i have asked the same question a thousand times,but that is only because i wanted to do everything right,just as a new mom would ask about her newborn,i see nothing wrong with that.And like i said if they find me so annoying DONT open my post....I am happy they are so perfect,must be great.I think maybe some of them need to get a life,besides their pet...........Or maybe a job i dont know.............

Princesss04
May 25th, 2004, 11:46 AM
I am sorry that was mean I am having a bad day and I took it out on you sorry! I do wish you the best of luck and I am glad to hear that you are going to get him a trainner. When me grandma had her dog trainned they let her pay in payments I am not sure if yours will do the same it might be something you could ask around about and see if they would set something up like that for you. I would make sure you get a guarntee also. Like if they can not fix him than you do not pay something along those line. I am so sorry for being rude to you I am normally no like that I was wrong. My husband's dad and them have GS he has grown up with them all of his life and I was talking to him about it and he said they are very stubborn. So just be patient with him and keep up the good work. Did you call those numbers and see what they reccomend and if they could help in any way! Let me know, I will not yell anymore. I just recently got a cat and she is giving me problems so believe me I know it an be aggervating. :)

Goldenmom
May 25th, 2004, 11:57 AM
This is how I see it....

Heidi has a dog that she is petrified of. This dog growls and looks like he will attack at any minute. Have any of you lived with this problem? I know I haven't and never want to. This problem will not go away overnight, especially in a week, since she started posting. Heidi, keep up what we suggested and call one of the rescue groups ASAP. I would like to hear from you that you called them TODAY, not tomorrow and not the next day. Please get off of here and make that call. Your dog may just attack you next time. He knows you are afraid of him, that isn't good.

Heather

heidiho
May 25th, 2004, 12:01 PM
Laura 5,my ex said his sister wanted him,now he is saying there 3 dogs are enough,and they were the only ones i would of been ok with having him..I actually would love to find a video like national geographic or something that shows dogs in the wild and how they are,never really heard so much about alpha dogs til now,i was raised with dachshunds,so never had these problems,i want to see how the alpha dog acts in the wild,library might have someting on that i would think..Yeah i really dont have money for trainer at 78.00 an hour,maybe i will get some books or something.He stayed with my best friend last night so he could play with her doberman she has big backyard,she saif this morning when he was eating he kept looking around like someone was gonna take his food,i feel sssssoooooooo bad because i made him that way [i assume] could of been that way from birth i dont know,but i sure didnt help by taking his food.....Tonight when i feed him i am gonna wrap my arm up to the elbow [just in case he does bite]and try to work on this some more... :eek:

mona_b
May 25th, 2004, 12:01 PM
I'm trying to find a way to answer this post... :(

heidiho,getting a puppy beacause you were getting married was a wrong reason to get one.I would have waited untill you were married.Poor Damien is somewhat caught in the middle now.

Yes,big dogs can adjust to apts.Depending on the size of the apt.A close friend of the family lives in a pretty big one and has an Afghan Hound.And Cash is a big dog.I mean in height.Geroge has a walker come in,feed and take Cash for a walk.And I also have a friend with a Great Dane.They were living in an apt before they moved into a house.Jazz did fine.These dogs that I speak of where not in a crate for a long period of time.

And Damien is in his way to long.Especially for being a pup.And we have told you that.

We have also given you MANY suggestions,all in a span of about a week or so.And we have told you about the feeding also.I mean about the 3x a day.But you were going by what a vet told you.Up untill they are about 6-7 months,they NEED to be fed 3x's a day.

As for the food aggression,it CAN be fixed.It has to be done the right way.With Damien it sounds like it will take a bit longer.But it takes patience and time.And with what ever way you chose to do it,you need to stick to one way for a while.

As one whos grew up and has GSD's(and other big dogs)...I have never had an aggression issue with them.

If things are tight,money wise,and you can't spend the money for a professional trainer,then I have to agree about calling a Rescue.

I know you love him very much,I don't doubt that.But Damien needs to be with someone who can spend the time helping him with his food aggression.Also,by the sounds of it he is putting a fear in you with it.And he know it.They are very experienced in rescues.They deal with it all the time.

I'm sorry,but rehoming Damien would be the best thing for you both.

heidiho
May 25th, 2004, 12:04 PM
See goldenmom just wrote exactly what i am worried about,i dont think anyone realizes how mean and scary it gets..And i dont know if i have already ruined it by that one time when he really lost it,i was scared and i know he knew it....I did e-mail two of those people that Luba posted here,i will let you know what happens.I love him,but this is not what i had in mind of what i want for a companion,i always wanted my pet to be able to sleep in bed with me or lay on couch,i cant do that with him ..SOoooooooooooooo confused//////////

heidiho
May 25th, 2004, 12:11 PM
Mona B... I know,you have given great advice thank you..This is just a huge life changing decision,he is my best friend,we have our little cute routines in the morning,he like me to blowdry him after i do my hair,brush his teeth.When i take a shoer he lays right by the door til i am done,i will miss him more than any person i have ever missed,last night he spent the night w/ my friend so he could play,WOW,was not the same when i walked in the door,no happy tail waggin,kissing me all over my face,i just dont know if i could live without him...............

mona_b
May 25th, 2004, 12:13 PM
Princess,I beg to differ on that.

They are not a stubborn breed.They are one of the easiest breeds to train.I know that for a fact...... :D

I trained my boys..And my one baby made it on the K9-Unit..... :D

They are known to "train" themselves...If that made sense.

mona_b
May 25th, 2004, 12:20 PM
Yes,I understand.It is a huge decision for you to make.... :(

BUT,you have to think of Damien and what's best for him.He is putting a fear in you.Heck,you even want to wrap up your arm when you feed him...That's scary.

I'm glad you emailed...It's a start.... :)

heidiho
May 25th, 2004, 12:20 PM
Yes,i can take stuff out of his mouth when he picks stuff up outside,i can take toys from his mouth,tennis ball.I can open his mouth to look at teeth.It is only bones or his food bowl,also can brush his teeth he loves that..And with what mona said,they are so smart, i taught him sit ,stay,down,gimme your paw in a matter of a day.He now knows leave it also.Smartest dog[german shepherd] i must agree..

heidiho
May 25th, 2004, 12:41 PM
OK!! That i havent really gave a full go at[hand feeing one by one] i will sit with him tonight and do it like that..And no more bones,well one person told me keep bones away for a few days,then he can only have it while i hold on to the other end,if he tries to take it,take the bone away for the night...

Goldenmom
May 25th, 2004, 12:42 PM
Bit of an update:

I was emailing back and forth with Heidi on Friday. I told her to do the exact same things you did Laura and MUCH more! I spent over an hour emailing her and giving her articles to read on the internet that deal with this issue. I told her that for no reason whatsoever you give him a bone. So, she replies today that she gave him a dentabone. Ok, easy mistake, didn't think that a dentabone was a bone??

I'm not positive that Heidi is up to doing all that is mentioned. I emailed her Friday and this is Tuesday. IF she was doing all that was suggested, she should be seeing some improvement in Damien by now. I told her to feed him a kibble at a time, make him work for his food... I'm not sure if she has done all this or not.

I think this pup needs some help and soon, before he is aggressive towards other things other than food. I just don't think Heidi is up to it.

Heather

heidiho
May 25th, 2004, 12:42 PM
P.S. I do the 'be nice' when i give him treats so he does know what that means i will also start doing that when i do this hand feeding thing tonight.

Goldenmom
May 25th, 2004, 12:57 PM
Heidi? Why did you not start the handfeeding when I mentioned it on Friday? 4 days have gone by and you should have a routine going by now where you are doing these things mentioned. You can't do it just one time and then not another. Be consitant.

Laura, I have been far from bashing Heidi. I spent A LOT of time for her on Friday trying to help her. I have a little more insight about this whole situation than others do, as I have been emailing with her back and forth. Suggestions need to be considered now, not tomorrow and not the next day, NOW.

Heather

Goldenmom
May 25th, 2004, 01:04 PM
Thank you Laura :D

Heidi, we are here to help, not judge. Please give us an update tonight on how his feeding went at dinner. It sounds like he is so sweet in so many ways. To be able to brush his teeth at 5 months, he has to have a good personality. Keep all that up, just be consistant with his feeding.

Heather

Princesss04
May 25th, 2004, 01:14 PM
Laura 5,my ex said his sister wanted him,now he is saying there 3 dogs are enough,and they were the only ones i would of been ok with having him..I actually would love to find a video like national geographic or something that shows dogs in the wild and how they are,never really heard so much about alpha dogs til now,i was raised with dachshunds,so never had these problems,i want to see how the alpha dog acts in the wild,library might have someting on that i would think..Yeah i really dont have money for trainer at 78.00 an hour,maybe i will get some books or something.He stayed with my best friend last night so he could play with her doberman she has big backyard,she saif this morning when he was eating he kept looking around like someone was gonna take his food,i feel sssssoooooooo bad because i made him that way [i assume] could of been that way from birth i dont know,but i sure didnt help by taking his food.....Tonight when i feed him i am gonna wrap my arm up to the elbow [just in case he does bite]and try to work on this some more... :eek:

The library will have videos on that stuff. They even have the movies on training your dog and on GS (or here they do). Good luck, do you have any other animals?

Princesss04
May 25th, 2004, 01:19 PM
Princess,I beg to differ on that.

They are not a stubborn breed.They are one of the easiest breeds to train.I know that for a fact...... :D

I trained my boys..And my one baby made it on the K9-Unit..... :D

They are known to "train" themselves...If that made sense.

I know they are very easy dogs to train it just takes time. And they are very very smart the GS I know (Silver) is so smart. But from what I have noticed they have to know that you are incharge and not them. If they feel as if they are than they are stubborn and hard to work with or that is what Justin's parents are saying I have not owned on personal.

Spoiled
May 25th, 2004, 01:29 PM
Hey, why don't you call up a rescue for German Shepherds in your area? Maybe they'd have some good ideas for the food agression. They might also have a seasoned trainer that you could hire, or obedience classes that you could go to. I hope everything will work out well for you! :)

mona_b
May 25th, 2004, 02:04 PM
Spoiled,that has been mentioned already..... :D

heidiho
May 25th, 2004, 02:22 PM
He is soooooooooo awesome,loves to get teeth brushed it is so cute....Then i have to put the blowdryer on low and cool and he loves it so much,when i get ready in the morning [putting on makeup he lays right between my legs.When i get ready to leave as soon as i p/u my keys he goes right in his kennel.And it is so cute i just got a dining room table and that is where his crate was well now when i get ready to leave he runs under table,i have to get him used to where his new location of crate is..

Spoiled
May 25th, 2004, 02:56 PM
OOoops! :eek: I didn't read all the posts exactly. :rolleyes: :D

heidiho
May 25th, 2004, 03:13 PM
It is ok spoiled if you repeated something i do it all the time.............. :) :)

chico2
May 25th, 2004, 03:15 PM
Heidiho,I am certainly no dog-expert and when I did have dogs years ago,nobody crated their dogs,not even puppies.
I know it's the norm nowadays,but is it not cruel to keep a lively puppy in a"cage"for up to eight hours a day?
I know most of you dog-owners have used crates,but I am oldfashioned I suppose,I think a dog should at least be able to run around,if not in livingrooms,then at least a kitchen,when alone most of the day.
I've read from so many people about crating,not to have the dog destroy things,but does that not come with the territory if you have a puppy,especially in a smaller place?

heidiho
May 25th, 2004, 03:21 PM
I hate having him crated also,he goes to my friends house two days a week,and i was gonna take the crate face it towards the kitchen it fits perfect but then i was thinking if he tried to jump over it and got stuck he would be in a bad way til i got home...My goal is when he is a little older i can let him have the whole apt but what age is that??? I dont know,any guesses Mona you might have a good guess when they can have free reign of apt..

mona_b
May 25th, 2004, 04:38 PM
Anita,I've done it the old fashioned way also.I have never crated my dogs.Past or present.

As for how long they should be crated...I have heard that pups(damiens age) should only be crated for 4 hours.

Well that depends heidiho.Is he destructive,does he chew on things that he's not supposed to?Is he well behaved when he is loose in the apt?

Yukon and Tron were between 5-6 months when they had free run of the house.And I mean when we were out.

heidiho,maybe you can try blocking the kitchen.

It's not good at all to have a growing GSD pup to be in the crate for 8 hrs...They can have joint problems when older.

heidiho
May 25th, 2004, 04:42 PM
Well i was gonna take his crate face it so it opens toward kitchen that way he could lay in it,then walk in kitchen,but i was thinking if he tried to jump over it and got stuck like leg in crate he would be stuck there til i got home..

mona_b
May 25th, 2004, 04:49 PM
I'm trying to picture it in my head what you want to do...........This may take a while.... :D

cmt489
May 25th, 2004, 04:49 PM
Like Mona, I have never crated.

Given the design of my condo, I did not even have the luxury of blocking Oliver, my most recent pup, in. All the same, I have suffered minimal damage (granted, I expected accidents when Oliver was younger and I also expected some destruction (it has been minimal). As a precaution, however, I sprayed prized items (like furniture) with Bitter Apple and ensured that all power cords were unplugged and also sprayed (to deter him from developing a taste).

I know that people sing the praises of crates but I simply don't see it. Given a choice, none of the dogs that I have known would choose a crate over being in an open room.

My parents just adopted/rescued an adult Golden who has been crated her entire life and the owners said she "loves sleeping in her crate at night". Guess what - a week at my parents' place and she will not even sniff it. She loves hanging out in the open now.

And I agree with Mona, no matter what your views on crating, 8 hours is too long. Even if a dog sees its crate as its "den" no dog would stay in its den for 8 hours a day. Plus, a pup needs to go out during the day. Eight hours is simply too long crate or no crate.

I know we have gone through this again and again, but it sounds like you need to look into a walker, daycare or petsitter (friend or hired) to take Damien out during the day. My two cents and I will not be chiming in on this thread again - famous last words, right?!?!?! :)

Michelle

heidiho
May 25th, 2004, 05:02 PM
I have looked into that,and honestly there arent that many here in phx..which ido find suprising.well he goes to my friends two days a week,so he is only crated 3 days out of seven.And i dont like it either but it is.And i do have to say the crate is a great thing,when we are laying around he goes in there on his own,whether to take a nap or eat his bone,he is fine with the crate i think it is a great thing to have,he likes it...When i think he is ready i will let him have run of the house,but i dont have alot of money and just got brand new furniture and no way am i gonna give him the chance to ruin it..Any vet will tell you the crate is a good thing...

Spoiled
May 25th, 2004, 05:04 PM
I think it would be a wire crate, right? And a really small entrance to the kitchen, so that the crate door can be left open, and no space would be left. Am I picturing this right?

heidiho
May 25th, 2004, 05:11 PM
Yeah it is a black wire crate,i would turn it so the front faces the kitchen,it fits perfectly from cabinet to cabinet,no room to get out,but what if he tried jumping over the top of it and got foot stuck in wire??? And he does lloooooooveeee his crate also,if i scold him or when i vacuum that is right where he goes...

Lucky Rescue
May 25th, 2004, 05:19 PM
A dog who goes into a comfy OPEN crate to catch a nap is very different than a dog who is locked in for 8 hours a day with no way out. No dog would choose that.

mona_b
May 25th, 2004, 05:54 PM
A dog who goes into a comfy OPEN crate to catch a nap is very different than a dog who is locked in for 8 hours a day with no way out. No dog would choose that.

Soooo very true.

As for saying "sometime in a dogs life they will have to be crated"..Not true.My dogs who have never been crated have never needed to be in one.And they are both 8 now.If they ever saw a crate,I think the first thing they would do is "pee" on it.And I have 2 large PB GSD's that I have had since they were 3 months old.Ok,so one left at 18 months and came back to me at 7..... :D

mona_b
May 25th, 2004, 05:56 PM
I see we posted the same time............lol

heidiho
May 25th, 2004, 05:57 PM
I agree i hate when i have to put him in there for 8 hours,but that is the way it is,i cant change that..But yeah he does like the crate.And i know he probably sleeps most of the time anyway,one sat.when i was home all day he slept alot of the day..Until i get one of those doors things,great idea duh! i knew that,do you think i could just take crate and dace it toward kitchen???

mona_b
May 25th, 2004, 06:00 PM
Well first off your right,I'm not going over seas....And second,I wouldn't be going over seas.......... :D

mona_b
May 25th, 2004, 06:13 PM
Trust me when I say I wouldn't be moving there....I have thought about it..And it will never happen....And I'm serious when I say that....I have a father who is 82 and I am his little girl...So like I said,I would never be moving there....And I have no reason to be leaving where I am now....Heck I just moved here........But am only 45 mins from my daddy..... :D

heidiho,is there anyway you can look into a licenced dog walker to come take Damien out?Think about this,the reason he loves his crate is because that's all he knows.He is in it for 8 hours.You come home,let him out,then later you go to bed and he is in it for another lets say 8-9 hours during the night.

mona_b
May 25th, 2004, 06:14 PM
Well I will have to continue this later.Hubby is on his way home and he is not in a very good mood.So this is my cue to take the dogs for a nice long walk..... :D

heidiho
May 25th, 2004, 06:17 PM
Iknow Mona,i hate it,i want him to sleep with me..what do you think of that given our situation????

melanie
May 25th, 2004, 06:30 PM
you have repeatedly said you are scared of him, well you fear wont change in a hurry. you should never be scared of own pet and frankly, he has the potential to be very dangerous (as all dogs) and i dont think you can cope. laura we have given her book advice, names of books ect and yet to see these used. and you still wont go to dog school, this is a cheap option and is a necessity for him, he needs to learn basics first which is what dog school does, it sounds like you dont have much control here and dog school would give you the power you need and establish your position. and to give him to your sisterin law, she has 3 dogs, have you thought about everyones quality of life if he went there?? 4 dogs and a family are expensive and hard to handle, you hae said yourself she has a yard, have you looked into the math of number dogs and land sizes per animal?were you going to make continued payment for upkeep?? ring the shelters luba gave numbers, for advice for the poor boy in rehousing have you done this yet.

Luba
May 25th, 2004, 06:32 PM
OK!! That i havent really gave a full go at[hand feeing one by one] i will sit with him tonight and do it like that..

I told heidiho to do this WEEKS ago.

It took too 'long' actually 45mins she said to be exact. When I continuously asked her if she was doing the feeding as I suggested WEEKS ago she's done nothing but avoid it. This is NOT new advise!

Heidiho, whats with you? Perhaps you can explain why numerous people have given you the same advise and you're still sitting there wondering what to do? If you started this May 4th (almost 3 weeks ago) you'd be 3weeks ahead of where you are now! Is this a game to you? A way to seek and get attention?

Everyone is just wasting their time here!

MAY 4th in response to her original thread I posted this:

just want to warn you against using any method of force as it striking your dog with a hand/foot or object. You do NOT want to do this, even if it's retaliation for him nipping or growling at you!


Esp you don't wanna do this with a big dog like a GSD or one day he will rip your face off!!

You will teach him to fear bite and they by far are the most unpredictable dogs you can find! One day out of the blue he may think your hand that is coming to 'pat him' is going to slap him and CHOMP and TEAR and there you go!

I've seen some horrible training techniques even coached by so called dog obedience trainers and pro handlers. They encourage rough shaking and a whack even. I can't tell you how scarey that is to me. I would NEVER hit a dog that way.

There are many other methods that can be used to curve/combat this behaviour esp when it comes to feeding.

If its a feeding issue YOU become control of EVERY single morsel he eats.

I'm not sure what u feed him dry/canned or home fed / both.

BUT each meal is going to be atleast 10/15 mins long and he's gonna have to be patient for a few days until he learns to behave.

You control the food, the bowl is in your hands or on the counter. You stand/sit in a chair and feed it to him piece by piece. Each time he takes it from your open palm gently you reward him with good boy! Make him sit before each portion, then he'll begin to just stay in seated position.

Over the course of a couple of days, alternate one or two pieces in your hand then a few in his bowl that you will put down after he sits for it.

When he is finished you put your hand to the bowl and put one or two more pieces in. Constantly telling him he is a good boy.

Feed him in the same place ALL the time (if you have a crate you feed him IN the crate and he SITS before he eats).

Slowly, you can give him a few more pieces at a time. Until you graduate to an entire meal.

MAking him sit to wait for the food is crucial. When he is done take the bowl away immediately and tell him good boy!

Hope this helps.

melanie
May 25th, 2004, 06:39 PM
hail queenie luba, you are a far more patient and tolerant woman than i will ever be, sheesh :D
dont forget this dog is growing and when he get realy big then you will really have probs, fix it now before too late...

heidiho
May 25th, 2004, 06:43 PM
Then go away Luba why do you aggravate yourself with me then..........Ihave tried alot of new ways of feeing him and the funny thing is why do iask a million times because someone on here said to feed him in different areas but yet you say feed him in the same spot,that is why,cause i get a million different ways told to me to do,so if you dont like my problems,QUIT answering or writing here,i dont need attention i get enough thank you,i think you are the one who need to get a life............

Luba
May 25th, 2004, 06:48 PM
Regurgitated mumbo jumbo

heidiho
May 25th, 2004, 06:50 PM
I love it....Have a great evening// Chat at you tomorrow....

Kona Dawg
May 25th, 2004, 08:20 PM
Here's an excellent article on curbing CPA

http://www.doglogic.com/possess.htm

Do what is best for you and your dog, but pls. try this for a few weeks brfore making your final decision. My parents have a Cocker who had C.P.A. and we were able to work it out of her, she is 15 years old this year now and has been a joy to have.

There is no need for be-littling people for anything in life includeing this!

Goldenmom
May 25th, 2004, 08:43 PM
"Heidiho, whats with you? Perhaps you can explain why numerous people have given you the same advise and you're still sitting there wondering what to do? If you started this May 4th (almost 3 weeks ago) you'd be 3weeks ahead of where you are now! Is this a game to you? A way to seek and get attention? "

Heidi???? Whats up with this??? 3 weeks ago Luba gave this advice and you are STILL here asking the exact same questions over and over......

Damien should be in a routine by now and you should be seeing some improvement. Are you going to try and help this situation or not????

I'm getting a bit ticked now...... You don't appear to want any advice or accept it. The ones giving advice here have all either been through this or have helped others through these problems. I think that time and energy are being wasted here.

I personally won't be replying anymore and I wish you all the best of luck in the world with helping your situation, because you are going to need nothing less than a miracle at this point before there is a serious injury.

One last very good piece of advice, which should be done ASAP (not that I haven't said it before) CALL RESCUE IMMEDIATELY. They need to get the dog out of your place and into a situation where the dog has a chance at life and being treated right.

Heather

Luba
May 25th, 2004, 08:52 PM
Food for thought huh Goldenmama!

I wonder, have we ever seen any pictures of this dog?
I don't recall?

The naming him Damien, first choice? Why? I doubt when you first saw him he exhibited this behaviour your stating he has.

It's probably only 'after' coming up with this wonderful story line that people have been following that Damien sounded like it suited his behaviour huh!

Reminding me of that Almond Joy commercial!

cutelittlemako
May 25th, 2004, 09:08 PM
For the puppy staying in his crate 8 hours a day problem, this is my experience... One of my neighbours was walking her golden lab puppy, i started talking to her, telling her how cute he was... She asked me if I knew anybody who stayed home during the day (I was home and it was lunch time - so I guess she figured that I might), and I said that I was, so she asked me if I would mind going in and letting her dog out in the middle of the day. It turned out great! When you're walking your pup around the neighborhood, if you see neighbours that you think you can trust (students -like me- are often home during the daytime), you can get to know them and then ask them to come over to give your puppy a break. My neighbour was actually driving back home from work before I started going. I really enjoyed going in to see him, and I still do when I'm home, even though her dog is now older.
Asking someone who is home during the day might be doing the other person a favor, I wanted to walk a dog, but I wasn't sure if I wanted one, so I got to walk the dog (which is safer), and I decided to get one of my own!

heidiho
May 26th, 2004, 10:03 AM
I dont know how many times i have to say i have been working on this,and for the person who aksed about how much land,it is alot,they live in the country and have alot of property.Well dont worry tried hand feed him last night and growled and went to bite,so dont need your advice anymore,called the breeder and i have a feeling part of this was his mother from what she said.And it is funny how some of you say you get so annoyed but yet you keep putting in your 2 cents in, i am so happy everyone knows how my dog gets,i would like to see one of you put your hand near his food bowl..So for all of you sooooo annoyed by me QUIT WRITING TO ME...........

sammiec
May 26th, 2004, 12:08 PM
Well, this has turned into a very interesting conversation!!! Oh, Hediho, you make it sound like we should all feel so sorry for you. You had to shell out 78 dollars for your trainer - and you don't know how you're going to pay for it... BOO HOO... I would not eat for weeks if it came down to who had food, my dog or myself. I guess that 's just priorities. You got a dog because you were getting married, good reason - don't think I've heard that one before.
Sad truth is, an aggressive dog like g s is simply because of improper training, socializing and attention -- all linked to you unfortunately. Your dog needs MUCH more then a backyard and a playmate, it needs an educated owner that has time and money to take care of it.
I have a pitbull and live in a apartment, I don't think you're cruel for that, but I think it's safe to assume that your dog does not run and play with other dogs and meet new people on a regular basis. Off leash parks are excellent for urbanized pets that doen't have backyards - look into it, if you have the time!!
P.S. A private trainer for 78$ how far did you look into this before you hired them?

mona_b
May 26th, 2004, 12:17 PM
To be honest,an off leash park would not be safe.Imagine if Damien came across a bone or something,and another dog came up....Oh man,you would have a definate scrap between them.Remember,he has food aggression.

heidiho,is there any way you can post a pic of him?

sammiec
May 26th, 2004, 12:21 PM
excellent point, i guess i was just thinking of the poor dog getting out of that apartment.

Lucky Rescue
May 26th, 2004, 12:23 PM
Very good post sammiec. I just have one question about this:
Off leash parks are excellent for urbanized pets that doen't have backyards -

I have a pit bull too, and hope you aren't taking yours to an off leash park?

sammiec
May 26th, 2004, 12:27 PM
yeah, she goes to an off leash park. she started when she was 5 months. I know that I will get backlash for this, but trust me I have done my reading upon reading about pitbull aggression, and have seen it first hand - NOT BY MY DOG!! but she is excellent. i constantly watch her. she's 7 months. I'm not saying that she;ll never become aggressive, reaching sexual maturity could bring on a whole different ball game, but right now - she needs the solcialization and exercise.
I didn't go into it blind. I consulted the vet and a highly skilled obedience trainer before deciding on this.

heidiho
May 26th, 2004, 12:27 PM
For samm,%*& you.you have no clue of how my dog is socially,i take that dog everywhere i go,just like they say have your dog meet 50 different people,my dog has met more,he is a VERY well socialized dog thank you,and if you were to meet him you would see he is a VERY happy dog also,as for people feeling sorry for me,i am not on this website for that i am here for different opinions which by the way you can take yours and go to hell.I was just letting people know that i got a trainer for him,and ialso said i was gonna just pay my rent a week late to do it,i do not want or need sympathy from people i dont know.And i dont want it fot people i do know.And as for getting a dog because i was getting married besides the fact i always had dogs and cats growing up,i was not going to be working when i got married so it was the perfect time to get a pet,i dont think i need another reason,you have actually surpassed Luba in the stupid things you wrote.I would love to meet you with my dog,because he has a food agrression problem you assume he is under socialized,not even close honey,this dog is always getting introduced to new people....

mona_b
May 26th, 2004, 12:28 PM
So true.

Being cooped up in a crate and hungry I'd be pretty ticked.

And I bet that is another reason he has food aggression.

I just thought of something,heidiho,PLEASE tell me you have water for him?

sammiec
May 26th, 2004, 12:30 PM
well heidi dear, I think we found out where you poor DAMIEN got his aggression problems. Meet me with your dog.... I'd love it!!! :eek: You're soooo scary!
P.S. The bleepin gout swear words is very childish, try posting without any nnext time ;)

heidiho
May 26th, 2004, 12:45 PM
Well samm if i didnt live in az i would love to meet you big time..Yes he does have water Mona.And he is crated 3 days a week,i dont think that is a cruel person.I have said a million times my dog is awesome friendly with everyone,i am sure i am not the only person in this world with a dog that has this problem,so dont ever tell me i raised him bad[samm] you have no idea how i have raised him...Mona i do have pics but they are just pics i took with a regular camera,i am not computer savy,but i ahve no problem mailing them to anyone who thinks he is gonna look like an uncared for dog,i get a ton of compliments of how beautiful my dog is,for those of you in doubt,i will gladly send pics of my awesome dog////////////////

Lucky Rescue
May 26th, 2004, 12:49 PM
sammiec, your dog is a puppy. When the day comes that you have her at the dogpark and she suddenly decides she doesn't like the way another dog play, acts, or even LOOKS at her, what will do at that moment?

Your dog will be fully capable of seriously injuring or KILLING another dog before you can even cross the park to try and get her off the dog. Then what? Calls for more breed bans that I, and other pit bull owners, do not want.

It sounds like you have done a good job socializing her. I would stop taking her to the park now, before she does something that will hurt the breed further. Adult pit bulls don't like other dogs and don't need to play or socialize with them.

This is one reason so many young adult pit bulls are in shelters and being killed. Their owners thought that because they play nicely with other dogs when they are puppies that "MY dog wont' be aggressive". Then when they DO attack another dog, it's off the pound.

Please protect your dog, and other people's dogs too by being responsible.

HEre is an article written by breed experts. I hope you will read it and take it seriously.
PIt bulls and dog parks (http://www.pbrc.net/dogpark.html)

cutelittlemako
May 26th, 2004, 12:54 PM
I was going to get a pitbull cross before I got Mako, so I read alot about the breed - and everything I read, said that you should never, under any circumstances, let a pitbull off leash. Even if you think you know your dog, you don't. Dont get me wrong though, pitbulls are WONDERFUL dogs! They can be the best pets when well socialized, but they can be unpredictable and you are responsible for your animal. I am VERY suprised that a vet or trainer would encourage letting a pitbull off leash. Lucky Rescue is right, and she knows, she has one. I'm not saying you are an irresponsible dog owner Sammy, I'm sure you are a great owner - I'm just very surprised at the off leash things. Pitbulls are extremely powerful dogs and can be hard to control on leash, I wouldn't want to have to try a pitbull off leash - no matter how good he/she is!
Just my opinion.

Lucky Rescue
May 26th, 2004, 12:54 PM
heidiho, further swearing and name calling is not going to be tolerated. Please be civil.

sammiec
May 26th, 2004, 12:59 PM
I appreciate your post. As I mentioned, I did not go into this blind. I have read many articles, and I do believe everything you are writing, I will read yours and take it seriously. As a pitbull owner you should be well aware of the damaging incidents that have detroyed the reputation of the breed, as am I. But we must also take into account that MANY dog attacks are labelled as pitbull, when in fact they are not. Some people that write these papers and report on the news are infact bias and uneducated.
I know that dogs can turn aggressive even because the wind blew the wrong way. But at the same time, you have to believe that your beloved pet is just that, and give them a chance to prove it. - and for that comment, you will reply, "until they kill or severly hurt someone". Pitbulls are known to be aggressive and dangerous dogs, yes, but you gave one a chance by getting it. Now they should also be given the chance to be a dog, not an animal in a mussle confined to a crate, these beautiful animals deserve a chance at life. (and your reply - "until they kill or severly hurt someone). I am DEFINATELY not saying that's how you treat your dog, just an example of how our dogs are viewed.... sorry that came out wrong....

mona_b
May 26th, 2004, 01:04 PM
LR.

A friend of mine had an American Pit.Let's just say there was no way in heck I or anyone else would go near Capone.Bad up bringing... :mad: ...Well Capone had a litter.Yeah more added when not needed.... :rolleyes: ....Well they kept one.Shira was the most precious pup.Well socialized and loved people.Well once Shira turned a year old,man did the scraps start.Capone almost killed Shira.Capone wanted nothing to do with her at all.And by the time Shira was 2,well she wanted nothing to do with dogs period.She wanted a piece of them.And I saw it with my own eyes.And Shira was on a leash.And a dog that wasn't was almost Shira's lunch...Shira was spayed at 6 months....We are going back a good 7 years ago.

Capone got so out of hand,that she had to be put down.She attacked a mother/older daughter.She was so bad that there was no way anyone else could take her..... :(

cutelittlemako
May 26th, 2004, 01:07 PM
Actually Sammy, I think that people like you make the breed look bad, because you don't know your breed enough. If you wanted a dog that could be left in an off leash park, you should have gotten a lab. It's not just Pitbulls either. I don't think that powerful or potentially aggressive dogs should be brought to an offleash park. It's great that you are thinking about the dog, but you also need to think about the other dogs at the park, and their owners. Pitbulls scare some people, and seeing one off leash will just be detrimental to other people's view of the breed - even if she just plays and is nice, being stressed that your dog might be attacked when he is playing is not a fun experience.

sammiec
May 26th, 2004, 01:09 PM
mona b
that's a sad story :( ... this thread was about g s, i guess heidi will love that it's turn against me now...lol
I think that you guys are getting me wrong though, i never planned to keep taking her to the park until the unfortunate happened, I was just saying that for a puppy the solicaization is amazing...

cutelittlemako
May 26th, 2004, 01:10 PM
The post has not turned on you sammie - it should never turn against people.

sammiec
May 26th, 2004, 01:11 PM
Mako? was your puppy the boxer that was having difficulty with the medication? he kept peeing in the crate?

heidiho
May 26th, 2004, 01:12 PM
I really dont care if my swearing is childish,get a little defensive when people say crappy things to me like that,when they have no idea how i treat my dog...I got someone to let me use there camera pics will be on here tomorrow..

sammiec
May 26th, 2004, 01:16 PM
Heidi sent me this private email and asked that I share it with you all...




Do you work??? Do you have kids??? do you have frineds [people] besides your pet.Because it seems to me you are the one that needs to be socialized with humans not animals.do you have any other hobbies besides your dog???? My dog is my life,when i am not working that dog goes everywhere i go.petsmart,park every sat.morning,ice cream place.to my best friends to play with her doberman.So believe me honey his food aggression has no bearing on on well he is socialized..The breeder i got him from said his mother had some food issues herself...So please get your facts straight before you open your big mouth about my dogs social skills bitch//// and feel free to post this on the general forum...........

sammiec
May 26th, 2004, 01:32 PM
i forgot to remove her curse word, sorry about that....

cutelittlemako
May 26th, 2004, 01:37 PM
Yes sammie, that was my puppy that I was having trouble with. He seams better now - no peeing in 2 days. I think his anti-biotics might have been affecting him - like it can affect people I guess. Has this ever happened to you? I know nothing about anti-biotics and dogs so... I did some research, but it seams as though all web sites that mention the a-b he's on are only selling, and mention no side effects. Oh well, as long as he's doing better!

cutelittlemako
May 26th, 2004, 01:38 PM
Seriously Heidi, with that swearing, you are loosing credibility.

sammiec
May 26th, 2004, 01:41 PM
hey mako, i think my puppy is going through similar things - due to medication right now. She got kennel cough from the offleash park, so she's been on medication for that, and she's been peeing in the house for the past couple of days. She's 7 months now, and pretty much house trained, it just come on suddenly when she began the medicine...
Is your puppy still on the pills? have you talked to your vet about trying something else, or just stopping all together? My best friend's cat is sick with a tumor (he's 14 - the cat) and they were giving him too high a dosage and he was vomiting and pooping all over the place. she took him off the pills and now he's "healthy" again, now they in the middle of lowering the dosage and trying he treatment again.... it could be something similar (the high doseage)...

cutelittlemako
May 26th, 2004, 01:44 PM
He's getting better, so I chose to continue with the pills. It's good to know that I'm not the only one though! I hope your poor pup gets better too! Do you have a picture!

sammiec
May 26th, 2004, 01:46 PM
http://www.pets.ca/petsites/viewpet.php?petid=2094

I hope that works. I don't know how to insert photos in this darn thing, but that's her pet.ca site....
tell me if it doesn't work I can email...

cutelittlemako
May 26th, 2004, 01:48 PM
Oh my god, she is the prettiest thing - And she looks like Mako a little (brindle with white). Mako puts his ears up sometimes - like your puppy does in the picture, it's so cute! Go see my pic in my Thread - it's "puppy peeing", it was taken a month ago, but I really find that they look alike :). Mako is bigger now!

sammiec
May 26th, 2004, 01:54 PM
I wauv him sooo much!! He's adorable!!!

Lucky Rescue
May 26th, 2004, 02:24 PM
Sammiec, I never said "hurt or kill someone" I said "another dog".

Pit bulls were bred to fight other dogs, and do not recognize signs of submission in the other dog and will not quit. This aggression is genetic and cannot be trained or socialized out. Also, you have no control even if another dog starts a fight with yours, and your dog WILL finish the fight, while horrified onlookers gape at the "vicious pit bull."

Of course I know many of the "pit bull attack" stories actually involve a large number of other breeds, but that doesn't change the fact that nearly ALL pit bulls will become aggressive to other dogs or animals to some degree - ranging from mild to severe. My own dog is merely intolerant and not overtly aggressive, but I would never allow her to interact with other dogs because I know how quickly she could go from playing to grabbing unto another who annoyed her.

A dog doesnt' need to live in a crate or wear a muzzle to be properly managed, and I never said they should be. My dog has never been in a crate or worn a muzzle. There is a middle ground between muzzling and caging your dog, and letting them run loose in dog parks. My dog goes everywhere with me, loves everyone, is a spoiled couch potato and has a pretty good life. She doesn't need other dogs - she has her cats.:p She is never, ever off leash except in safely enclosed areas.

People who take pit bulls to dog parks are not only endangering the breed, but hurting responsible owners like me and could very well hurt you too and have your dog taken from you and euthanized. This is not an exaggeration.

I looked at your dog's pic. She is just beautiful! Please keep her safe.

sammiec
May 26th, 2004, 02:41 PM
they should also be given the chance to be a dog, not an animal in a mussle confined to a crate, these beautiful animals deserve a chance at life. (and your reply - "until they kill or severly hurt someone). I am DEFINATELY not saying that's how you treat your dog, just an example of how our dogs are viewed.... sorry that came out wrong....

I had said this as a general comment in my reply, in no way was I saying that you did this to your dog. I'm sorry if that's what you thought.

heidiho
May 26th, 2004, 02:58 PM
tHAT IS ALRIGHT,HEY I GOT PICS OF HIM AT MY HOTMAIL HOW CAN I ET THEM HERE??

Lucky Rescue
May 26th, 2004, 02:59 PM
No, no - I didn't take that as being directed at me. I was merely pointing out that extremes are not necessary - caging and muzzling vs dog parks!:)

Luba
May 26th, 2004, 03:27 PM
Sammiec

no worries about the private mesg u got from heidiho, she's got a habit of doing that! ;)

'I don't care about my swearing' stomping feet pouting and throwing a temper tantrum. My goodness girl, go have some sweets!

Back to my Almond Joy commercial ;)

heidiho
May 26th, 2004, 03:32 PM
Jusrt as you have a habit of being rude...

Luba
May 26th, 2004, 03:39 PM
This definition seems to suit someone else more then it does me.

rude Listen: [ rd ]
adj. rud·er, rud·est


a. Lacking the graces and refinement of civilized life; uncouth.
b. Lacking education or knowledge; unlearned.
c. Ill-mannered; discourteous: rude behavior.

heidiho
May 26th, 2004, 03:43 PM
OK ok got it i am rude i am fine with that ,i happen to consider it sticking up for myself,but whatever.Do you have a job??life??? OR DO YOU JUST SIT THERE ON YOUR HIGH HORSE ALL DAY,THINKING YOU KNOW EVERYTHING..

Luba
May 26th, 2004, 03:45 PM
I actually don't reside on a farm but I have friends that have horses, including my vet. Maybe I should go for a ride one day. It's been so long since I had a horseback ride that sounds like a lot of fun!

Queen Luba or Miss Luba Queen of the know it all horseback riding!

Tally HOOOOOOOOOoooooooo!

heidiho
May 26th, 2004, 03:50 PM
;) Not only does she know everything she is a comic to.Wow you have so many special gifts...I think you do need a good ride,but not on a horse...

Luba
May 26th, 2004, 03:54 PM
What would u suggest?

heidiho
May 26th, 2004, 04:10 PM
You know..A little something something....A good scr%^

Luba
May 26th, 2004, 04:17 PM
Yes I figured your thoughts were of that calibre.

heidiho
May 26th, 2004, 04:28 PM
I am just not uptight like you..I just think you could use it..sure sounds like it..My god do you have any sense of humor?????

chico2
May 26th, 2004, 04:34 PM
I think it's time for Heidi to go and train her dog,instead of spending her time here,not agreeing with anything that is suggested,actually te whole subject should be dropped and ignored it's been going on way too long,with no apparent results.Good Luck to poor missunderstood Damien :p
Sammy,your Pitt is adorable :D

Luba
May 26th, 2004, 04:34 PM
Humour (Canadian spelling) is one of lifes grand pleasures!

Uptight, no. I just have some class.


Almond joys

heidiho
May 26th, 2004, 04:41 PM
I am at work,poor little damien,believe me he will be just fine..As for Queen Luba,because i said you need ^*( i have no class?? gimme a break!!! So lets see you know everything,your classy,and funny god your husband is a lucky man..

melanie
May 26th, 2004, 04:54 PM
HA, HA, HA, HA oh i just choked on my tea, OMG you guys make me laugh so hard in the mornings, laughing so hard the dog just came in for a look at her crazy mummy :p .
oh sammy what a spunk rat, oooo i could just give that nose a big kiss, give her a big cuddle from me, oooo so cute, you are a lucky mummy. i do have some pit bull Qs but i will start a new thread for them so have a look girls and let me know more about them.
luba what is almond joy commercials?? who or what is it and does it taste good??
and OMG, tallyohooooooo luba (that just cracked me up, oh the picture in my head lol), you cheeky bugger, now comon keep me laughing :p .
sammy dont think we have met, well welcome to the loveliest board (most of time) in the west, we are mostly a happy and silly bunch, boy you need a good sense of humor (aus spelling :D ) around here some days but otherwise it is a fun place, dont take this thread as an indication of our normal goings on. :D

and please ignore those here who just really need to get over themselves

Luba
May 26th, 2004, 05:02 PM
Almond joys are candybars (chocolate bars)
The commercial jingle they had for them and another chocolate bar named Mounds was funny! Just made me think of something!

I thought of the Tallyhoooooo just now as I was cutting the front yard....my neighbour walking by figured I couldn't hear over the mower...but every step he took he passed gas. More gas then my mower!! LOL

chico2
May 26th, 2004, 10:24 PM
ha,ha,ha Luba!! I too was cutting grass this afternoon,minus a gassy neighbor :D

sammiec
May 27th, 2004, 08:27 AM
I am at work,poor little damien,believe me he will be just fine..As for Queen Luba,because i said you need ^*( i have no class?? gimme a break!!! So lets see you know everything,your classy,and funny god your husband is a lucky man..

So witty... what is ^*? what does Luba need?

P.S. Love the comment about horseback riding. I think I'd rather be on a high horse then a low horse, no?

heidiho
May 27th, 2004, 09:18 AM
Edited for obscenity. Second warning.

sammiec
May 27th, 2004, 09:23 AM
dear heidiHO, you need as much help as that poor pooch of yours

heidiho
May 27th, 2004, 09:34 AM
No i am just fine,thanks...Have a great day..

Luba
May 27th, 2004, 09:45 AM
Heidi go train your dog! You waste far too much time complaining and babbling nonsensically to ever make hay while the sun shines.

heidiho
May 27th, 2004, 10:19 AM
I have to wrok,i do have a job you know.You know what i am not up for this stupid high school crap i am done battling with you i have more important things to think about,ok,so you win,i am done...

Luba
May 27th, 2004, 10:26 AM
Finally you are making sense!

Princesss04
May 27th, 2004, 10:50 AM
How often are you feeding him Heido?

heidiho
May 27th, 2004, 11:01 AM
2 x a day... I know all this started because i was not feeding enough,so i have no one to blame but me.and i will have to live with that....I work 8 hours mon fri,so i cant feed three x a day,and i dont believe in free feeding...

Luba
May 27th, 2004, 11:39 AM
You are being selfish keeping him, you know that!

He does not deserve to be in an apt for 8/9 hours a day alone
fed 2x a day.

You said you didn't make a mistake getting him in your other thread but YOU DID because you were not settled in a suitable environment.

Engaged to be married does not mean 'settled down'

You decided to play house with a live being instead of a stuffed one. Now, the poor puppy is suffering for it. You would have to be stupid not to realize that, and since you say you're not childish and not stupid...then why don't you do something about it rather then whine whine whine all of the time!

Sink it in your head heidiho the dog deserves better then what you can provide him.


I suggest everyone else that has / is trying to help heidiho redefine if you are helping or just being a sounding board.

Are you all enjoying repeating yourself over and over while this heidiho sits on her behind and scratches her head? Meanwhile insulting many good offerings by several people here?

I guarantee you, another post or another question is in the lurkes soon enough and that will turn into a several page garbbly goo bunch of manure just as this and the others have.

There is an old expression that involves a curse word so forgive me for a moment

Heidiho

***** or get off the pot!!

Kona Dawg
May 27th, 2004, 05:36 PM
As has been stated, the same recomondations have been stated over and over again, some chose to repeat themselves, some chose to bicker. For six pages now to be exact. what has this accomplished? sweet nothing, I for one feel it is time for a Mod to lock this thread and be done with it.

melanie
May 27th, 2004, 05:47 PM
i wonder if this is nearing a record, 1126 views of this post, wow. :eek:

Lucky Rescue
May 27th, 2004, 06:33 PM
feel it is time for a Mod to lock this thread and be done with it

Agree. Time to get off the merry-go-round.