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Dog Humping - beyond the same old thing

Liz Parfitt
September 18th, 2007, 12:17 PM
Hi out there - I have a problem which is beyond me.

I have a 12 year old neutered male and a 3 yr old un-neutered male (stud). They have been together for a year and a half and are very compatable. About a month ago the younger dog began to take a greater than usual interest in the older dogs private parts, which we discouraged. This has gradually escalated (with our discouragement escalating) to the point that the younger dog is displaying classic mating behaviour, putting his chin on the older dogs back, licking his fur, and finally trying to hump him. He is wagging his tail and not showing any agression. We can no longer have the two of them in the same room, and if we do we must keep the younger dog on a short leash where he whines and cries and struggles to get to the other dog.

At first we thought this was a dominance issue, but it really doesn't seem to fit. I began to think that somehow the older dog was giving off confusing hormonal signals, however I called the vet this morning and they said that was impossible. The younger dog is normally so docile that until he fathered his first litter of pups we wondered if he was low in testerone.

All I know is that we cannot live with this. We love both dogs, but we are at the end of our rope. Can anyone help me.

want4rain
September 18th, 2007, 12:22 PM
sorry, i dont meant to state the obvious here.... but get the younger dog fixed. dogs who are fixed dont hump for reproduction. they do for dominance but not like you are experiencing.

-ashley

luckypenny
September 18th, 2007, 12:30 PM
Welcome to the forum Liz Parfitt. The simplest solution, and the best IMO, is to have your younger dog neutered. It may take up to several months before you see a difference in his behavior, but it's so worth it. And it's better for his long-term health as well. I'm surprised your vet did not already suggest this :shrug:.

mummummum
September 18th, 2007, 12:53 PM
I have to agree ~ your younger dog would greatly benefit from being neutered.

A few things to think about (you can see the whole article here: http://www.y2spay.org/CanineNeut2.htm )

Why Neuter Your Male Dog?
By Wendy Brooks, DVM

WHAT ARE THE HEALTH BENEFITS TO THE DOG?

There are several health benefits to neutering. One of the most important concerns the prostate gland, which under the influence of testosterone will gradually enlarge over the course of the dog's life. In age, it is likely to become uncomfortable, possibly being large enough to interfere w/defecation. The prostate under the influence of testosterone is also predisposed to infection which is almost impossible to clear up without neutering. Neutering causes the prostate to shrink into insignificance thus preventing both prostatitis as well as the uncomfortable benign hyperplasia (enlargement) that occurs with aging. It is often erroneously held that neutering prevents prostate cancer but this is not true.

Other health benefits of neutering include the prevention of certain types of hernias and tumors of the testicles and anus. Excessive preputial discharge is also reduced by neutering.

WHAT BEHAVIORAL CHANGES CAN BE EXPECTED AFTER NEUTER?

The only behavior changes that are observed after neutering relate to behaviors influenced by male hormones. Playfulness, friendliness, and socialization with humans are not changed. The behaviors that change are far less desirable. The interest in roaming is eliminated in 90 percent of neutered dogs. Aggressive behavior against other male dogs is eliminated in 60 percent of neutered dogs. Urine marking is eliminated in 50 percent of neutered male dogs. Inappropriate mounting is eliminated in 70 percent of neutered dogs.

It seems to me the pro's far out weigh the cons AND it's the responsible thing to do. Hundreds of thousands of dogs are killed or euthanized each year, the world doesn't need any more puppies :2cents:

Liz Parfitt
September 18th, 2007, 01:08 PM
Thanks for your input. I do believe in spaying and neutering, however this is a beautiful purebred American Cocker Spaniel stud. He has a regular female partner and they are producing gorgeous puppies twice a year. Neutering at this point is not an option. Incidentally the older dog is also a purebred American Cocker Spaniel, but he has been neutered from infancy. I appreciate your replies.

luckypenny
September 18th, 2007, 01:22 PM
Perhaps your breeding mentor would be the best person to consult for suggestions.

clm
September 18th, 2007, 01:25 PM
So then you care more about the stud fee/puppy selling prices than you do about your 12 year old companion.

cindy

mummummum
September 18th, 2007, 01:50 PM
Neutering at this point is not an option.

Neutering should always be an option. While a responsible dog owner should weigh the positives and the negatives in any situation, the balance should ALWAYS favour the health of the dog and the stability of the home. It seems to me that by ruling out neutering as a reasonable solution only because your dog, as do millions of other dogs, produces beautiful puppies, you are entirely overlooking what should be the deciding factors.

In other words, you may not like the answer but that IS the solution.

goldengal
September 18th, 2007, 02:03 PM
And isn't producing gorgeous puppies twice a year too often? I thought once a year was more than enough.

Pat

Purpledomino
September 18th, 2007, 02:57 PM
And isn't producing gorgeous puppies twice a year too often? I thought once a year was more than enough.

Pat



I was thinking the same thing... :frustrated:

Purpledomino
September 18th, 2007, 03:11 PM
I also meant to add... that if you choose to keep your "stud" unaltered, you have chosen to live with the consequences. What your younger dog is displaying in behaviour is totally normal, he will pester and hump your other male to no end, as he is just reacting to the hormones and his sex drive. One of the benefits of neutering your males is that you don't get the behaviour that your dog is exibiting. No training will curb all of these traits, they are very primal, such as urine marking etc.

Frankly I am wondering why you are questioning your "studs" behaviour, since you are in the business of breeding him, I would think that you should know how a stud dog behaves. :shrug:

~michelle~
September 18th, 2007, 05:29 PM
you think your mentor, or other breeders you talk to would def say 2X a year is way to much !!!! a female should only be bred a few time in her life, not back to back! poor thing.

once you neuter your dog this behaviour should settle if it doesnt then it might be something else but 90% its being unaltered!