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Heartworm Preventative

wAggie
May 21st, 2004, 05:21 PM
What do you give to your dog? Which is "better"?


Heartguard or Revolution?

Luba
May 21st, 2004, 05:55 PM
I don't do it Aggie.

The chances for heartworm where we live are slim to none. There is a heartworm test you can do annually. If your dog is positive you can do treatment.

I don't believe in over vaccinating and over preventing things that may happen.

Both your sweeties should be immune to most things for years! ;)

I've spoken to vets and breeders who've told me they haven't had incidents in over 30 years.

Only one breeder I spoke to ever had a heartworm positive dog, that they bought from another breeder in the states.

Up to you but I say don't bother. You know, all of these treatments and preventatives, vaccines actually lower a dogs immune system and makes them less likely to be able to fight off other disease.

Rabies is the law, and the only one Sadie will be getting.

Rusty was never vaccinated at all for the last several years of his life.

Honey I got her boosters done when I rescued her.

Province wide I believe the statistics annually for heartworm positive cats and dogs is low (locally under 20 pets affected!) For such a low risk, I don't find it necessary to consider preventative treatment. This is the info I got from a Collie Breeder when I was trying to decide whether to give to Sadie.

The heartworm annual test though I do find to be appropriate.

mona_b
May 21st, 2004, 06:28 PM
Well Yukon and Tron are on HeartGard.They started this month and will be on it once a month till Oct.

Me personally,I would rather be safe then sorry....And I have heard about the treatments that are given if tested positive.... :(

Lucky Rescue
May 21st, 2004, 06:59 PM
And I have heard about the treatments that are given if tested positive....

Yeah, it's terrible, and the mosquitos are out in force right now!

Luba, you don't have mosquitos where you live? I'm moving there!! :D

Goldenmom
May 21st, 2004, 07:26 PM
For anybody interested, I received the following email from a very good friend that owns 5 Goldens. He only feeds Raw and is very, very well educated when it comes to these things. Again, this is not my opinion, it is that of a friend.
************************************************** ******
Every spring I watch the emails pour in about fears of heartworm, and later all the emails that pour in about people whose dogs had reactions to these toxins and sadly, some deaths.

Interceptor, Sentinel, Frontline, Heartguard are little more then poisons. Why do you think there is a skull and crossbone on the packaging? Also the instructions stated to wear protective gloves when applying as it is toxic to us? What about to our animals? I would and will never give any of these products to my dogs.

Heartworm is NOT as great a problem as we are led to believe? This is a great cash cow to vets and the drug companies who are more concerned about their profits then your animals.

Firstly, it is prudent to have the dog checked twice yearly.

Mosquitoes are a HUGE problem here, and I never use meds, they scare me to death.

Simple precautions and common sense can go a long way to prevention without poisons. For example, when out and about with my crew during high mosquito hours I spray them down with a good mix of natural oils, skeeters don't like the taste of it! Good for fleas, ticks and bees!

But it is also prudent not to be out during high skeeter hours, but if one must, spray 'em down!

Tea Tree Oil
Rosemary Oil
Sage Oil
Cedarwood Oil
Peppermint Oil
Sweet Orange Oil
Eucalyptus Oil
Citronella Oil
Pine Needle Oil

Mix 3 drops of each with 16 oz water in a spray bottle. Shake before each application and spray over entire body, repeat as needed. Simple, safe and natural!

Also during high months it would be prudent to add garlic to the diet as well as Apple Cider Vinegar to the drinking water (ACV) also helps prevent stones from forming!

The addition of the herbs black walnut and wormwood are a good natural preventative also and should be given every other day in small amounts. I know many folks in Ontario that use these and never a problem along with a good spray such as the one I included above.

Plus I will include a bunch of links you should study:

http://www.theherbsplace.com/heartworm.html
http://www.bullovedbulldogs.com/heartworm.htm
http://www.nbwi.org/holisticheartworm.html
http://www.srdogs.com/Pages/proheart6.html
http://www.therightremedy.com/

Lucky Rescue
May 21st, 2004, 08:07 PM
I know that heartworm preventatives are insecticide, but after going through the ordeal of treating my dog for heartworms and watching her suffer, I choose preventative as the lesser of two evils.:(

Chany
May 21st, 2004, 08:38 PM
Hey Goldenmom does that conconction work on humans as well? How does it smell? Does it work better or smell better than Off?

Lucky Rescue
May 21st, 2004, 08:46 PM
This is supposed to keep skeeters away too.

Take a BIG fat lemon (the more rind the better) and slice it paper thin. Put
in a bowl with a tablespoon of crushed rosemary leaves (or a 6 inch sprig of
fresh). Pour over with a quart of hot, near boiling water. Let steep
overnight. Strain and put into a large spray bottle. Keep in fridge. Shake
well before applying

Goldenmom
May 21st, 2004, 08:56 PM
Hey Goldenmom does that conconction work on humans as well? How does it smell? Does it work better or smell better than Off?
Sorry, I can't answer your question, I have never tried it.

Heather

wAggie
May 21st, 2004, 10:04 PM
WOW!

i am very much overwhelmed by the responses to this thread!

we went to the vet today and i got the brochures for the two, inc Advantage (i know, it's for fleas, lol)... and i'm going back 2mor morning to drop off a urine sample... and that's when i'm to decide on what i want to get.

2 yrs ago, i had Choco on Revolution. i thought, hey, if it's good for one, y not get one that's good for "all" (well, more than just heartworms & flea larva)

and on the way home from the vet, i was leaning, actually i've "decided" i was gonna get Revolution, again, for both Choco & Honey....


but NOW... reading some comments, i'm not so sure... Chocolate still did manage to catch Whipworm a few months following the end of mosquito season (also the end of his Revolution treatment)

now, he's still on meds for another 1-2yrs :(


LR, if u dont mind my asking, how does the "treatment" work?

i've read that the test itself cannot detect less than 5 female 12 inch (?) heartworms and will show the test as NEGATIVE unless it's got more worms... :mad:

Lucky Rescue
May 21st, 2004, 10:32 PM
Waggie, if any vet uses the old fashioned test, which consists of merely straining the blood, it's possible they wont' see small microfilaria. But few vets use that, and they examine the blood closely and even microscopic microfilaria can be seen.

The treatment consisted of Chloe staying at the vet for nearly 3 days. She first needed x-rays to try and see how many adult worms there were, and also if there was heart damage. She needed a shot in each thigh muscle. The shots are extremely painful and the dog must be observed for adverse reactions.

When she came home, she was very sore in her legs, and had to be kept quiet for a month. This period is very dangerous, as the worms are dying and breaking up and too much activity can force the pieces through the bloodstream and into the lungs, etc. and the dog can die suddenly.

During this time, she also coughed and gagged on the dying worms and I had to watch her closely and rush her to the vet at any sign of distress.

Later on, she had to go back for another shot to kill any microfilaria that may have been left over, or any new ones that may have appeared in the meantime.

Then back for another blood test, to check if all was clear. (It was!) However, Chloe still does not have the stamina she should for her age and breed, but after approx 6 weeks, and 1000$, she was declared wormfree!:)

Dogs that are old, or sick often can't take this treatment as it would kill them. In that case, the microfilaria only are killed and the adult heartworms left in place. They will eventually die after a few years.

wAggie
May 21st, 2004, 11:14 PM
whow... looks like i should has how they test for heartworm @ my vets!!

I'm happy to hear Chloe was alright after this terrible ordeal!!!

*HUGS*

DobieOwner
May 21st, 2004, 11:16 PM
Interceptor, Sentinel, Frontline, Heartguard are little more then poisons. Why do you think there is a skull and crossbone on the packaging? Also the instructions stated to wear protective gloves when applying as it is toxic to us?

I just read the box and instruction sheet of Heartgard and found no skull & crossbones, and no reference to wearing protective gloves. The only warning is to keep away from children. Misinformation is not helpful :)

wAggie
May 22nd, 2004, 01:01 AM
I was talking to a friend in regards to this thread (asked him to read it)

and it dawned on me... some of us use chemicals/poisons on our bodies!!





such as what? HAIR DYE!! we put hydrogen peroxide onto our own skull!

meh, i'm getting Revolution 2mor $85/dog :rolleyes:

I think it's worth it...

Thanx for the input, y'all, but i honestly have no time to locate all these oils, mix the formula and be spraying my dawgs daily to try and ensure they dont get a single skeeter bite this summer.

YES, i know nothing works 100%. Nor am i in favour of meds, there must have been a VERY good reason as to why people went in favour of them and away from completely hostilic methods....

eesh, my eyes are already sore imagining the Visa bill nxt month... and it's not just bc i'm up this late/early in the night/morning!

:o

MBRA518
May 22nd, 2004, 09:01 AM
Then back for another blood test, to check if all was clear. (It was!) However, Chloe still does not have the stamina she should for her age and breed, but after approx 6 weeks, and 1000$, she was declared wormfree!:)

Dogs that are old, or sick often can't take this treatment as it would kill them. In that case, the microfilaria only are killed and the adult heartworms left in place. They will eventually die after a few years.

Well.. I've been using Sentinal since my dog's brother died suddenly of heartworm at the age of 10months... I think I'll keep it up.

If treatment for it is painful and the dog will still have lasting effects and the cost is $1000... I'll go for preventing it... My dog is 8 this year and is in very good health and she has been on Sentinal since she was a pup... I'll keep it up.

Lucky Rescue
May 22nd, 2004, 10:16 AM
I really hate pesticides of any kind, and never use any chemicals on my property for any reason.

I hate giving Chloe the Heartguard. Insecticides scare me too, but heartworms terrify me and I"m sure Chloe would not survive another bout with them.

Also, just want to add that when a dog is older I would stop the Heartguard, as old age will kill the dog LONG before the worms could. If Chloe had been an older dog, I wouldn't have done the full treatment, but she was only two.

I stopped getting my last dog tested when he was 10.

MBRA518
May 22nd, 2004, 11:14 AM
I really hate pesticides of any kind, and never use any chemicals on my property for any reason.

I hate giving Chloe the Heartguard. Insecticides scare me too, but heartworms terrify me and I"m sure Chloe would not survive another bout with them.

Also, just want to add that when a dog is older I would stop the Heartguard, as old age will kill the dog LONG before the worms could. If Chloe had been an older dog, I wouldn't have done the full treatment, but she was only two.

I stopped getting my last dog tested when he was 10.

So In your opinion would it be better to stop giving my 8yr old Rottie the Sentinal?

I was thinking of switching to heartguard actually because she is rarely in contact with other dogs (not that sociable), so fleas are not a big concern to me - I could just do the flea treatments fi she happened to come in contact.

Lucky Rescue
May 22nd, 2004, 11:47 AM
Fleas are not a big problem here, so I only treat for fleas if I actually see them and don't use any preventatives.

But dogs don't need to be around other dogs to get fleas. They can get them outside where fleas hide in vegetation waiting for a dog or cat to pass by.

Luba
May 22nd, 2004, 11:57 AM
Well of course there are mosquitos here but as Golden mom says there are other ways to prevent it.

Common sense keeping your dog indoors during peak mosquito times and alternative natural remedies to keep the buzzing biters off of you are my choice.

If your dog has had heart worm then I see why you would want to use the preventative.

Dogs kept outdoors are higher at risk obviously.

Of the 6 collie breeders I spoke to none use preventative for heartworm
They are 'all' in Ontario. None of their dogs or pups have had heartworm.
*just that one dog they bought from the u.s.

In addition I spoke to (10) additional breeders from the following breeds (German Shepherd, Husky, Golden and Shetland Sheepdogs)

Of the ten, (2) of them have their dogs on heartworm preventative.

I am with GoldenMom on this one...they lead us to believe this heartworm is almost epidemic proportions and it is nowhere near such.

IF you plan on doing a lot of hiking through woods and trails during peak mosquito season, or you leave your dog out overnight and early morning...then I'd say it may be worth the preventative.

I am NOT giving it to Sadie! I quite honestly see no need, the risk is too low.

LR..Chloe could have got heartworm from her poor living conditions before. This wench that had her, or from where she came from before that, could have left her outdoors alot or most of the time.

Predisposed condition of heartworm would suggest you would want to prevent it in future , I agree.

A dog not predisposed to heartworm, and living under normal family home circumstances....don't need this preventative IMHO.

Lucky Rescue
May 22nd, 2004, 12:09 PM
I agree with everything you say Luba. It's very true that healthy, well cared for house pet dogs are not likely to ever get heartworms.

And it's true that Chloe was emaciated, neglected and full of hookworms when I got her, so she had no resistance and the conditions she was kept in made her susceptible to the heartworms.

But as you say, the fact that she had the heartworms has made me paranoid about her ever getting them again. Even if the chance is 1 in a million, I cannot take that one chance. Again, the preventative is the lesser of two evils.
This was my girl when I got her. I knew she would test positive before I even got the results.:(
http://pic10.picturetrail.com/VOL320/1047157/1960669/25770868.jpg

Luba
May 22nd, 2004, 01:08 PM
LR I would feel the same way if I were you, 100%. Your poor Chloe had a rough go of it and I completely understand your concern. Absolutely :D

I think then, each situation should be looked at independantly. Which pet should / shouldn't get it depends on past history of infection and disease, where you live, if you have indoor/outdoor dogs. Lots to look at and evaluate :D

One thing I may be concerned about is leptosporosis. But Sadie is very allergic to the vaccine and couldn't even follow up with her booster so thats outta the question.

wAggie
May 22nd, 2004, 02:51 PM
well, i picked up Revolution a couple of hours ago and I see NO skulls or bones anywhere.

the worse that i can find is the "may be irritating to skin and eyes." there is no mention of wearing protective gloves or disposing the leftover package with newspapers and bags. :rolleyes:


i'm VERY happy w my decision... now i can plan ANYTHING and EVERYTHING this summer w my kids.... and have very little worry/concern for ticks, fleas, etc. :D

mona_b
May 22nd, 2004, 04:09 PM
I was also wondering about the protective gloves and the cross bones.....I don't see any of that on the Heartgaurd....Why on earth would I need gloves to give them it.Sorry but I find it a bit silly.I pop it out,they sit,I give it to them.. :D

Luba
May 22nd, 2004, 04:37 PM
Pesticides and herbicides are very harmful to us our pets and the environment.

Many of the packages discreetly indicate only the necessary information. With some you have to actually rip the packaging apart and read the inside of the box.

Simply because u dont' see a dangerous poison sign, does not mean it's not dangerous. There is a great deal of advocacy currently on going to force the drug manufacturers of these and other products to clearly mark out the dangers. Patient monographs as well, like what we get when we get a prescription.

Everyone makes their own choice, I hope you all do it through educational reasons...research!

wAggie
May 22nd, 2004, 07:27 PM
Luba, I find it hard to believe that a company like PFIZER would "neglect" to put important labels such as poisonous/toxic/danger on their products.

Last thing THEY want is a major lawsuit, IMHO.

check out their banner "world's largest research based pharmaceutical company" @ www.pfizer.com

they have 100% satisfaction guarantee or ur money back. doesn't sound all that bad to me. :D
http://www.revolution4dogs.com/content.asp?country=US&lang=EN&drug=RV&species=CN&sec=170

Revolution was the first ever FDA (Food and Drug Administration) -approved medication for dogs...
http://www.revolution4dogs.com/content.asp?country=US&lang=EN&drug=RV&species=CN&sec=110

Goldenmom
May 22nd, 2004, 08:09 PM
Here is a link that was given to me for those of you that think these preventatives are safe.

http://freefind.com/servlet/freefind?id=9609505&pageid=r&mode=ALL&query=heartworm


These types of questions and discussions are great for people, because it gives them something to think about and research. I would never just listen to someone on a pet forum and take their word as God. I would research and educate myself until I was satisified with the outcome. Forums are great for another opinion.


Heather

Karin
May 22nd, 2004, 08:22 PM
My .02 cents worth...


The only way I would ever use Revolution on Ciara again is if she came in contact with the scabies mite. This is the only useful purpose I see to Revolution.
The Revolution first came out the company rep gave all of us at the animal hospital a year's supply. (I still prefer to use Heartgard/Frontline) I threw my Revolution in the cupboard where I store all of Ciara's drugs. The next year two of the other tech's had positive dogs as well as a few clients that were on it also. And Revolution DOES NOT deworm your dog monthly! Only felines benefit from Revolution for Cats in the deworming department.
As for scabies, (sarcoptic mange) Revolution applied in two doses, two weeks apart makes fighting the buggers a snap.
I would never trust it for Heartworms....ever.
My new vet has seen many cases of Heartworm + dogs on this preventitive also and will not even stock it anymore.

Luba
May 22nd, 2004, 09:42 PM
Aggie many beloved pets have died, yes I did say DIED from the use of the product you have bought and others of the same calibre.

It's naive for anyone to think a pesticide is safe!!

What many people don't tend to see/realize is the long term affects this has on an immune system.

Maybe your dog would be okay for a year, two, three....but the fifth year suddenly has tumours. Where did they come from? Can you prove it was from the pesticide? Uhm no...so hence 'no' lawsuit against the big corporations.

Actually, I have to state that there have been several cases settled out of court in Canada and the States as well as Great Britain with regards to PEOPLE and PETS having horrible adverse reactions to these products.

There is no way in he(double hockey sticks) I will give this POISON to my dog!!

Why do you think they are banning the spray of pesticides on lawns???
Hmmm?

Pesticides are known to cause disease and death!

I'm shocked there are still people that think it's okay! Do some research before you make up your mind on these things. Because the 'drug' company and 'vets' (both of which profit) say they are safe, does it make it so? UH NO!

Did the cigarette manufactures also not say their product was non toxic, didn't cause cancer and was non addictive?

Do cigarette companies have to list the many ingredients on their packages that are dangerous? NO!! Yet they KILL people!! So why don't they have to list the fact they contain them?

Give it some thought!! It is ALL about money! Thats it!

If even someone or a dozen were to successfully win (which I doubt) lawsuits against ANY of these companies..... it wouldn't put a dent in their business.

wAggie
May 23rd, 2004, 03:49 AM
Luba, relax!

U do what u feel is best for ur dog, and I will con't doing what I feel is best for MINE.

Revolution is NOT a pesticide! http://articles.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m4PRN/is_1999_Sept_21/ai_55806537


Welcome to misinformation: http://www.doglogic.com/revolution.htm
If you read this story, the autopsy result stated that the dog had already been sick. Pfizer states this in regards to Revolution: do not use in sick, weak or underweight animals. (http://www.revolution4dogs.com/content.asp?country=US&lang=EN&drug=RV&species=CN&sec=140) but then, I also thought this would be common sense when deciding on whether to use drugs or not. :rolleyes:

Revolution has been prescribed to MILLIONS. Again, it is NOT a pesticide.
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/06-15-2000/0001244817&EDATE=

Please do some research before you attempt to belittle me, I will not tolerate it.

this diagram shows how Revolution is absorbed into the system.
http://www.thalo.com/images/full%20size%20art/maggie_baker009.jpg

Heartworm disease can be deadly to both cats and dogs. There is no approved treatment for heartworm disease in cats, and treating heartworm disease in dogs can be lengthy and expensive, so prevention really is key.
http://www.katsation.com/articles/prevention.html

this animal hospital even had a page dedicated to REcommanding Revolution to indoor and outdoor cats.
http://www.floridavet.com/felinerevolution.htm

This vet hospital has decided to promote Revolution to cats effective MAY 2004 bc cats have not enthusiastically taken to the chewable tablets. As a result kitty compliance concerning heartworm protection has been poor. (this site also brings attention to the RAW diet... read further down if interested)
http://www.sylvaniavet.com/FYI.htm

Here's a tidbit on the efficacy of Revolution for the control of fleas in dogs and cats: http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB/Proceedings/PR05000/PR00230.htm

FYI on the mange biz --> Revolution has proven to prevent mange, not cure it.
http://www.askthevirtualvet.com/QnA/q37.html

However, here's a contradicting post made in Britain on bats infected w mange mites --> http://www.bwrc.org.uk/winter%202001/correspondence.htm

k, I think I'll stop here for now. :)

Luba
May 23rd, 2004, 04:50 PM
I knew you were going to say 'relax' to me Aggie. It's what you tend to say on occassion if I disagree with you and have a strong opinion. Somehow you think I"m over here screaming shouting and waving my hands at the computer???

I actually teach relaxation therapy and practice yoga daily...so I'm usually quite relaxed myself. I rarely if ever fly off the handle with anger, rage or such! Those are elements that really aren't in my personality.

There are ways of expressing your feelings and having opinions which are healthy and required. Standing up for your beliefs is something I feel very strongly for and I do not and will not fall prey into the hands of corporations and cover ups! They make money from our 'trusting' souls when one is feeling they are doing the very best for their companion.... when they are poisoning our beloved pets and causing numerous health problems with them.

Absolutely you do what you feel is right for Honey and Chocolate.

Selamectin, the main ingredient in this Revolution product is parasiticide (which kills parasites) It's more specific in targeting these pests by damaging their nervous systems then the generic pesticides which are non discriminant.
Referring to a pesticide was a generalized term I used to describe the products ability to 'kill' pests...which it does.

They have some of the 'same' effects in damaging an immune system, contributing to any number of health problems.

Bill & Bob
May 23rd, 2004, 05:05 PM
Let's all try and use a few less exclamation marks. That might help.

Luba
May 23rd, 2004, 05:34 PM
Please if you are uninterested you can most certainly ignore this post.
Those with concern and are undecided please read on.

I wanted to do a little more research on this product revolution and it's counterparts just so that I am not blowing hot air here. I wanted to be certain that I was not misleading people and if I were, I would state it.

Bill!!!!!! lmao u funny man :D

Anyway, the packaging of some of these brands can be misleading and the description of what they are as well. You see, Revolution for instance kills parasites and in their own literature state that it is a non pesticide. So I thought, read on Luba there is more to this I think.

From their website:

Revolution is a prescription-only medicine, not a pesticide

******************

The main ingredient is selamectin.

Selamectin is in the catatory of pesticides called avermectins.

This is what I mean by misleading packaging, advertising and not informing the public (these companies are too much).

I just did a little more digging and came up with that.

These heartworm meds and flea meds are of a group of pesticides called avermectins. Pesticide type is insecticide. Targets nervous system.

Used in all sorts of sprays including raid and is commonly used on agricultural crops as well. That's just a little info for you all!

I hope this helps a little.

I am not trying to mislead anyone, I'm trying to clarify information that they do not provide the consumer which isn't right, they should tell us! We shouldn't have to dig around to find out what the ingredients really are. I'm actually very very surprised they would say that this is a non pesticide when it comes from the family of pesticides? That is completely false advertising and yet, they get away with it! Go figure!

mona_b
May 23rd, 2004, 06:08 PM
Well with my previous dog Cujo,I also had him on Heartgaurd.We spent alot of time in the country at my aunts farm.And man where there ever mosquitos there along with the black flies..We spent alot of time outside with my aunts 3 other dogs.Even in Toronto we were getting them.Buggers even got in the house.... :mad:....Yukon and Tron have been on it since they were about a year.Tron was spending alot of time outside.He had to go through bushes and feilds,and the woods.And Cobourg does get their share of mosquitos.Aunt lived in Grafton.And man even the mosquitos are bad here.Especially the ball park.I have to say I have not had any problems with the Heartgard.Cujo was on it for many many years.Yukon and Tron for about 7 years.I guess I'm just lucky...... :D


http://www.bellamyspad.net/heartworm.htm

Karin
May 23rd, 2004, 07:23 PM
Mona, No, you are just not lucky. Heartgard works. I am not afraid of these so called dangerous pesticides....Ivermectin works. Mosquitos are as big as B-1 bombers in the south, we cannot even go out side this time of night...and they find their way indoors too..so anyone who think's their dog is safe..think twice! Have you ever been bitten by a mosquito indoors?

Keep your dog/cat on year round preventitive. I do not care where you live, the problem has moved north also.
It is a cheap insurance policy.

Luba
May 23rd, 2004, 07:36 PM
B1 bombers now THAT Karin is funny!

Karin
May 23rd, 2004, 07:51 PM
B1 bombers now THAT Karin is funny!

They are, I swear! This time of year is the worse...

This is still considered the tropics and swamp lands surround us....no one goes out doors especially at dusk.

Deet is a good thing.

Lucky Rescue
May 23rd, 2004, 08:38 PM
Anything that kills fleas and other parasites is pesticide/insecticide. There are no two ways about it. We just have to weigh the benefits vs. the detriments.
Anything that keeps my dog from getting heartworms is a necessary evil, in my mind, as the pros outweigh the cons.

Karin, we use heartworm preventative from roughly June til Nov 1. Believe me, no mosquitos can survive our minus 30 degee temperatures in the winter! WE barely survive! :eek:

Karin
May 23rd, 2004, 09:36 PM
Anything that kills fleas and other parasites is pesticide/insecticide. There are no two ways about it. We just have to weigh the benefits vs. the detriments.
Anything that keeps my dog from getting heartworms is a necessary evil, in my mind, as the pros outweigh the cons.

Karin, we use heartworm preventative from roughly June til Nov 1. Believe me, no mosquitos can survive our minus 30 degee temperatures in the winter! WE barely survive! :eek:

Many northern residents flock here during the cold months . They plan it..retiree's. One thing they do not plan on is preventing their pet from being exposed to what is a year round, every day fear of ours.

My climate is different, as is in the northern areas.

When in Rome so to speak, do as the Romans do....

Most "snowbirds" are here for 6 months or better....plenty enough time to get infected with heartworms. Preventitive is cheap, treatment is not, if I had choose between the two...I guess you get where this is leading.

Chany
May 23rd, 2004, 09:58 PM
You know I've never thought about heartworm here before. We deworm our dogs but I'm going to have to ask around here now and see if its a probable.
The treatment sounds horrible and smokers ( I am a casual smoker :rolleyes: ) poison or pollute themselves everyday and a lot of us live fairly long or at least long enough lives. I know I know you always hear of the young ones dying, but I'm just saying, whats that old saying?" prevention is worth a pound of cure" or has someone already said that. Sorry if you have but I'm trying to remember all of the new posts I was reading :o
Anywho I'm rambling but so far Abbey has kicked but on everything else thats been given to her so I'm sure if its something the vet thinks she and Dixie should have I might have to. But how do they get these little creatures anyway?

Luba
May 23rd, 2004, 10:22 PM
Skeeter bites!!

Like Karin says Bombers LMAO!!

Check the incidents of where you are, how many are reported.

Myself I've decided against it. Some breed types are very sensitive to the treatments (collies being foremost on the list) other breeds too!

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Bzzzzzzzzzzz

Bzzzzzzzzzzz


WHACK!!
(splat)

Gotcha;)

Lucky Rescue
May 23rd, 2004, 10:37 PM
Most "snowbirds" are here for 6 months or better

Unfortunately, I'm not one of them...*sob* I do have a friend who spends the winters in Naples - beautiful place!

Karin
May 24th, 2004, 06:22 AM
I lived in Naples for a year, it is very beautiful but the mosquitos are so bad the county uses DC-3's to spray every day.
The closer you are to the Everglades, the more you have to put up with the little buggers. The price of paradise.

lauragrace
June 9th, 2004, 01:30 PM
I have a 1-year old pup I adopted 6 months ago, so this is my first summer with him. I've researched holistic vs. traditional protection for heartworms, fleas & ticks. I live in NYC. The clinic I take my pets to is treating 3 dogs who have heartworm. One died, the others are suffering terribly.

An article on the internet earlier this week mentioned that brown dog ticks are prevalent in NYC and can cause terrible illnesss to dogs.

I don't want to expose my puppy to toxic chemicals either, so I researched black walnut and wormwood, which are considered natural heartworm preventives in holistic circles, and found WARNING, WARNING, WARNING about the toxicity level and horrible side effects of these herbs.

And there's less of a guarantee that they work. I fully understand your point of view but I wonder if you recognize that holistic methods of preventing these terrible illnesses can be just as deadly, if not more so..., because there are no clinical trials for the use and safety of these herbs.

If you think it's all about money, veterinarians can just as easily stock herbs and sell them to pet owners who are concerned with the safety of Frontline-type products.

My veterinarian is very holistically-oriented. He is quite famous as well. He treats with Bach flower, acupuncture, adequan injections when necessary, glandulars, etc. He is part of a hugh network of other holistically-oriented veterinarians. He told me that 98% of them recommend Interceptor (or other similar products) and Frontline. He said they all believe you don't fool around with heartworm disease or Lyme disease.

So why should I expose my puppy to potentially harmful herbs that can hurt him even more if they don't work and he has to then be treated for heartworm or Lyme disease?

It's easy to say blindly that you won't expose your pets to toxic chemicals, but I think you should read up on toxic herbs as well.

Our precious pets are at the mercy of our decisions regarding their care, so it's up to us to be informed and to make decisions based on fact, rather than blind loyalty to an undocumented point of view.

heidiho
June 9th, 2004, 01:45 PM
Whew!!! Thought it was just me that got into heated discussions.... :mad:

lauragrace
June 9th, 2004, 02:02 PM
Believe me, I would love nothing more than to be assured of the safety and effectiveness of alternative products for the prevention of heartworm, fleas and lyme disease.

I have AGONIZED over the decision re: which path should I take. Although I am not comfortable giving my puppy Interceptor and Frontline because of posts like Luba's and others, I realized I am less comfortable giving him anything else.

Quite simply I am afraid to take a chance with unknown herbs that can be equally toxic as well as ineffective.

I would love to get an email or read a post giving me clinically documented data re the safety and effectivensss of herbal preventives.

If anyone knows of any documented information, including veterinarians who recommend these herbal preventives, I would be grateful for that information.

I would change my point of view if I truly felt holistic was better. That's all I'm saying with my previous post. The data should dictate the decision a pet owner makes. Not blind passion for a point of view.

heidiho
June 9th, 2004, 02:08 PM
I didnt say anyone was arguing...

lauragrace
June 9th, 2004, 02:11 PM
The word heated is what I was referring to.

heidiho
June 9th, 2004, 02:22 PM
Well it sure sounded heated to me,but i am not here to get into another battle...

lauragrace
June 9th, 2004, 02:31 PM
Why would you even use the word 'heated' if not to imply...

I'm just expressing my point of view and asking other pet owners to make their own choices based on fact rather than fiction.

What I mean is honestly accessing the risks of the supposed healthier alternative.

Again, believe me, I would love to be able to use other products, but I have to feel secure about safety and effectiveness.

Maybe you can provide some clinical backup to support these herbal alternatives??

Lucky Rescue
June 9th, 2004, 02:37 PM
lauragrace, I agree with you. Many people assume that "natural" means "safe" and this is not always the case.

There are many natural substances that can be deadly if used the wrong way.
On another board I'm on, someone's dog just became temporarily - I hope - paralyzed in the hindquarters from an application of Tea Tree Oil!!

I have no intention of using anything other than Heartguard to prevent heartworms in my dog.

heidiho
June 9th, 2004, 02:38 PM
No i am not,it was just a statement,and my vet has him on heartguard,he is a very good vet,has been a vet for over 30 years,so i am not interested in any of this herbal supplement stuff...If my vet says it,i dont need any one elses opinion...

lauragrace
June 9th, 2004, 02:46 PM
I've been so conflicted about this. I'm more afraid of what I don't know than what I do know.

I think the breakthrough into a more holistic approach to the care of pets and their humans is long overdue.

But that breakthrough has to be clinically approached. We certainly have the minds to do it, but it remains an alternative, rather than the best choice.

I hope this changes soon.

And thank you again. Your input helps me feel I made the right choice for my puppy.

LG

heidiho
June 9th, 2004, 03:02 PM
I will say one thing,there are alot of different opinions out there,which can make it more confusing,i am gonna stick with what i feel and my vet feels will be best,but this board is just fun,so i cant help myself.I cant leave it here even though many wish i would...

Karin
June 9th, 2004, 03:13 PM
I will say one thing,there are alot of different opinions out there,which can make it more confusing,i am gonna stick with what i feel and my vet feels will be best,but this board is just fun,so i cant help myself.I cant leave it here even though many wish i would...

Opinions are another way of having choices presented. All should go by their own "gut" feelings and what works for them. What works great for one may not for another..we all come from all over the world afterall.

lauragrace
June 9th, 2004, 03:30 PM
You are right about opinions and choices. Wouldn't it be wonderful if a few great holistic veterinarians got together with a few great conventional veterinarians and, after carefully documented research, presented pet owners with safer, healthier options.

Instead, it seems like the holistic community belittles conventional treatment and the conventional guys basically ignore them. It's really a shame.

A conventional veterinarian saved my cat's life last year. Within 3 hours she pulled him out of a coma and back into the world. He's 7 years old now and healthy & happy.

I just wish there was a more uniformed approach to health care from both camps, because we certainly need them both from time to time.

heidiho
June 9th, 2004, 04:01 PM
You are right,and that is what i finally realized i need to do[go with my gut],i agree it is nice to get different opinions,it just can get confusing of what is bad or good for your dog...

lauragrace
June 9th, 2004, 04:22 PM
I just did a search on the internet and read heartbreaking stories about cats and kittens dying after being exposed to tea tree oil. In some cases it was in shampoo used by a groomer.

I feel very humble at this moment because I almost bought shampoo containing tea tree oil for my puppy. And he and my cats play all day long.

I have 5 pets who love and trust me. I think I'll go home now and hug and kiss them all.

This has been the most informative online message board I've found yet.

Thank you for the GREAT life-saving information.

lauragrace
June 9th, 2004, 04:24 PM
A special thank you.

Lucky Rescue
June 9th, 2004, 04:28 PM
You're welcome!

Cats are particularly sensitive to toxins and chemicals.


Tea Tree oil (melaleuca, Melaleuca alternifolia) is a phenol-containing essential oil. Its active ingredients are cyclic terpenes which have a similar structure and action to turpentine (a known toxin) - in fact Tea Trea oil makes a good paint solvent! Cats are uniquely sensitive to phenolics and other benzene-based compounds. Benzyl alcohol (a preservative) is toxic to cats

By the way, I just found out that my Chloe has permanent lesions on her lungs from her bout with heartworms, which accounts for her lack of stamina.

Not that big a deal but heartworms are devastating, expensive and painful to treat and I'll do whatever it takes to make sure she never gets them again.

lauragrace
June 9th, 2004, 05:01 PM
I see that you're a senior moderator on this board. Do you think it's possible for pet owners like us to get some 'minds' together for the purpose of making sense of all of this?

I don't see the holistics moving closer to the conservatives nor vice versa. Instead of both camps fighting each other why can't an open minded group of pet owners try to gather honest information from both ends of the spectrum for the purpose of understanding the best treatment options for our pets?

Imagine if we could get veterinarians, nutritionists, herbalists, doctors, etc. together for this project? What a tall order !!

As mentioned, I have 5 precious pets. I would love to work on this over the summer.

Do you know anyone who might want to work with me?

LGH

wAggie
June 10th, 2004, 12:24 AM
wow, this thread's still up!

LR, I'm sorry to hear about Chloe. U take extremely good care of her, I'm sure she's worth every moment/penny.... *hugs* to the two of u from the three of us :)

Lauragrace, I'm gonna do the same and go hug my doggies as well!!! they mean the world to me!!!!!!

It'd truly be a dream if all the good and the bad would be presented and divided for us on a table. But life ain't so. Chances are slim we'll find an email waiting for us with all the answers as well. We have to dig it out ourselves. I can do it, and so can you... and all of us.

As they say... Knowledge is Power.

Dee_petlover
June 11th, 2004, 12:23 AM
It is interesting to hear the different viewpoints on heartworm and vaccinations.

I have used my own discretion with my pets. When I had my older dog I only did rabies vaccination at the yearly clinic, then when we added another dog and and began to frequent areas with a lot of dogs I got them both vaccinated for everything due to the fact that there were feces in the area and I was told that parvovirus was a concern in our area. I only treat for fleas when we get them and when that happens, I use advantage because it is the only thing that works for us.

I have decided not to do heartworm in the last couple of years, because I think that the chances of getting it are not really that high, however I know people who have cottages where there are way more mosquitos and their vets highly recommend it. Also lyme disease is something that is prevalent in some areas and not others so people need to act accordingly.

If you have one indoor cat or something that never goes out then you really don't need to get them vaccinated for certain things because they won't contract anything.

I think that people need to do what they are comfortable with and what they feel is right for their own pets, based on their pets lifestyle, keeping in mind legal requirements and also the responsibility of not spreading disease/parasites.

wAggie
June 11th, 2004, 10:10 AM
hmm... as for the indoor cats, that really decides... does the cat have access to a window? where another cat can meet and greet urs?

something to think about...

Karin
June 11th, 2004, 01:37 PM
I know these are rare cases but I have seen virus's, like Parvo, being brought into a home by the soles of one's shoes. This can happen..The last case I saw like this was a litter of 9 yellow lab puppies. Over the course of one weekend every pup was sold after their first vet visit, HC, Da2pp vax, B-vax and deworming. The first family to "inspect" the puppies for a possible new pet made the comment " we just lost a puppy we bought last month, he got sick & died". They bought a puppy and within 3 week's all the pups were dead. When ask by the litter owner what killed their first puppy, all they said was "dunno, but he had gross diarrehea & puked everywhere, found him dead in the garage". The litter owners learned an important lesson...their bitch also came down with parvo but survived, I believe due to prior vaccination. The pups had no protection what so ever. Vaccines are not 100% but having some immunity saved the mom. This outbreak was caused by the first family to view (and play with ..) all the puppies.
Indoor cats may not need a bosster every year but I recomend one at least every other year. You can bring home this evil to them your self. To me, it's cheap insurance.

Rant over..

lauragrace
June 11th, 2004, 03:10 PM
I'm in my 50's and the last dog I was privileged to care for was 30 years ago. We got the dog, a leash/collar and a dish. It was all so simple then. I don't remember having these concerns. Maybe I was young and unaware of the dangers, or maybe the dangers were not as prevalent.

Now it seems as though for every thought in one direction, there are two in the opposite. From food to protection to treating illnesses.

I mentioned in a previous post how great it would be if there was a website presenting the pros and cons of holistic vs. conventional pet care.

I've received offers of help from professionals from both camps and I'll be compiling data over the summer.

I think because of my age, my concern for health and wellness is much greater than it's ever been. And the fact that I adopted my puppy 8 months ago and this is our first summer season together.

My 5 pets deserve the best care I can give them. And right now I'm not sure that what I THINK is the best actually is.

I welcome any support, links and information. I already have a health-oriented website up and running, and plan to convert it to a pet health site.

I'm not looking to change the world; I'm doing this to learn as much as I can to protect my pets. And if I can help other pet owners as well... that's gravy!

I might have purchased shampoo containing tea tree oil for my pup, and might have lost 4 beautiful cats as a result, had it not been for LUCKY RESCUE'S recent post.

In fact, my puppy was groomed 3 times since I adopted him. I never thought to ask what was in the shampoo the groomers used.

Forewarned is forearmed !!

lauragrace

Karin
June 11th, 2004, 03:39 PM
Oops, I had a typo. Sorry. "bosster" is kinda cute tho.



You can go back to lives now...sorry for the interuption.

goldenblaze
August 25th, 2004, 09:16 PM
So much to read in this thread and after doing so even though I do not like pesticides I will keep my boys on it as my Vet adviced me too. Pesticides are bad mostly I do agree but in some cases they must be used like mange.

I have never used anything for heartworn until this yr, my vet told me that there were now 3 cases in my area and I to me that was enough for me to keep buying, I did talk to Dr Fisher from Pfizer animal health before using it and again i believe it is safe and hope it does all it is meant to do and only that. Same as any meds we give our animals, what is ok long term and what isn't. :rolleyes:

MLennon
March 2nd, 2005, 09:06 PM
[QUOTE=Karin]My .02 cents worth...
Only felines benefit from Revolution for Cats in the deworming department.

Can anyone tell me more about the value of Revolution for deworming cats? My 9 year old cat tested positive for antibodies, but hasn't had the antigen test yet. I don't want to wait three months if I can do something to help him. Not looking forward to explaining this to my three-year-old son. :(
ANY INFO MUCH APPRECIATED!

Karin
March 2nd, 2005, 10:02 PM
[QUOTE=Karin]My .02 cents worth...
Only felines benefit from Revolution for Cats in the deworming department.

Can anyone tell me more about the value of Revolution for deworming cats? My 9 year old cat tested positive for antibodies, but hasn't had the antigen test yet. I don't want to wait three months if I can do something to help him. Not looking forward to explaining this to my three-year-old son. :(
ANY INFO MUCH APPRECIATED!

Positive for the heartworm antigen I presume?

Many dogs in the US that have been using Revolution have turned up positive too.(Heartworms). Ciara's vet was a big supporter until recently. Most vet's in my area have already dropped the product.
While Revolution boasted about the deworm properties of their product it was proven to NOT work in canines, but was somewhat effective in felines.
Makes me wonder how many other areas we were mislead in.
Easy, administered products comes with a price. I am not willing to put a price tag on my Ciara yet.
I remember when heartworm preventative was a daily dose, long before the more convenient monthly ones.

Lucky Rescue
March 2nd, 2005, 10:16 PM
MLennon are you saying your cat has heartworms? There is no cure for heartworms in cats, and they are fatal.:(