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BYB vs shelter dog

Ryanh
September 6th, 2007, 09:32 AM
My wife and I are looking to get a mastiff pup to add to our family and have done a huge amount of research, but this question I can't seem to find answers on. I know a registered breed from a breeder is the best way to go and that a typical back yard breeder is the wrong way to go, but regarding a BYB what is the difference from adoption a dog/puppy from a local shelter??

My point I'm going towards is that a BYB has little history on the parents past health, past hip problems, etc, they aren't papered, and there is no focus on making the breed better, but at the same time getting a dog from a shelter that was likely a stray with no history, likely a mixed breed would be more or less tha same situation right? Is this something I can fairly compare?? BYB vs shelter dog. I mean health/temperment wise is there much of a difference between the 2?

I hope I made sense here..

Love4himies
September 6th, 2007, 09:52 AM
You are correct on your logic and I can see where you are coming from. However, if you get a dog from the shelter or a rescue, you are saving a current life and not encouraging BYB or Puppymills by giving your money to them, or to continue to breed because there are customers (you) wanting them.

Shelter/Rescue dogs can come with some background on their personality especially if they are adults, where as if you buy a puppy from a BYB, they may tell you what you want to hear just to make a sale, and personality is not yet determined.

Ryanh
September 6th, 2007, 10:06 AM
You have a valid point too about doing with a rescue rather than getting one from a litter, I would much rather not support these smaller breeders.

mummummum
September 6th, 2007, 10:14 AM
Putting the whole support of BYB's issue aside, from a health perspective I think you are better off adopting from a shelter because you know for certain that your dog has been checked by a Vet, perhaps immunized and spayed/ neutered. I wouldn't trust any information regarding health or vet checks provided to you by a BYB, they have nothing to lose and everything to gain by cutting corners and misrepresenting their dogs.

Love4himies
September 6th, 2007, 10:25 AM
You may even get the dog for a cheaper price too! Shelters charge one price for their dogs whether they are purebred or not.

Ryanh
September 6th, 2007, 10:39 AM
Love4himies - I hear ya, but for my wife and I we have decided that we want a specific breed and no where can this breed be found at a rescue. We contacted a mastiff rescue several times and never get a response back. Every dog I have had growing up was a stray and our current lab/pit X was a local rescue and he is wonderfull, but this time around we want a certain breed.

Moving to a new question, breeders, I have seen several ads (kijiji) for CKC registered bordeaux's with shots, vet checked, dewormed and some with guarantees and are asking a lower price that most big name breeders...what are people's opinion on this? I take it when I see a puppy with papers they are not a BYB?

mummummum
September 6th, 2007, 10:52 AM
Hmmm... I've seen at least one Dogue de Bordeaux and a few purebred Mastiffs at THS in the last few years. Are you using Petfinder as well looking to breed-specific rescues in your search?

badger
September 6th, 2007, 10:56 AM
Some BYB's put on a pretty good show so watch out. Maybe the people who run mastiff rescues would be able to help you, often they are lovers of the breed.

Ryanh
September 6th, 2007, 11:07 AM
I've searched on Petfinder many many times, there are just a couple Bordeaux mixes in Ontario/Quebec right now and are male, we don't want a mix and don't want a male. I'm sorry if I sound stubborn here.

As for my question above, any opinions on that?

edit: as for rescues, there is a Neo and English mastiff rescue, we have looked into that in the past and nothing came of it. My wife was very frustrated trying to get any answers from these places.

Love4himies
September 6th, 2007, 11:10 AM
Here is a link for dogs that lists the associations in Canada that are recongnized to be legitimate:

http://cfhs.ca/athome/purebred_dog_registrations/

Ryanh
September 6th, 2007, 11:22 AM
thanks for the link. So regarding my question if I see a puppy with CKC papers even if its not from a big name breeder should I be concerned?

Love4himies
September 6th, 2007, 11:45 AM
I don't think the size of the breeder has anything to do with it, but how the dog was bred, living conditions of the bitch and her pups. I know an extremely good breeder of Boxers in Kingston who only has two dogs at most and doesn't breed her bitches regularly, but only breeds with the best quality Boxers (she sent her bitch out to Calgary once because there was an excellent quality stud). The litters are born and raised indoors and have vet checks/shots before going up for adoption and is very picky who is allowed to adopt her pups. I know she doesn't make any money off this and does it because she loves Boxers.

Longblades
September 6th, 2007, 12:52 PM
I take it when I see a puppy with papers they are not a BYB?

Maybe not in the sense that they mass produce puppies for profit. But it is possible to find them shirking on VEt care, research into the parents (ie. crossing two dogs of poor temperment or poor conformation). The resulting crosses could still be registered though.

pitgrrl
September 6th, 2007, 01:03 PM
thanks for the link. So regarding my question if I see a puppy with CKC papers even if its not from a big name breeder should I be concerned?

Registered does not equal ethical. I can appreciate wanting a specific breed and needing a dog of a one sex or the other to fit your situation, but given that, I think the reality is that you're going to have to be patient.

An ethical breeder is likely going to have a waiting list for pups and may want to develop a relationship with you before handing over one of their dogs. With rescue you have to take into account that people do this with their own time, having jobs, families, dogs, etc. to tend to as well as the rescue work they do. A good rescue will be equally picky about where there dogs go, and this can take some time.

If you think about the 10-15 year commitment you're making when getting a dog, taking a few weeks or months to find a good match seems rather insignificant, IMO.

I also think it's worth pointing out that rescues do get pure bred dogs and that, if you are dealing with a responsible rescue, temperament of a rescue dog that has spent time in foster care is a far surer bet than a BYB puppy. I honestly find the idea that all dogs in rescue are sketchy tempered mutts to be far from the reality of the situation.

Out of curiosity, have you tried expanding your search area a bit? Perhaps into the US?
New Jersey maybe?
http://west.petfinder.com/shelters/NJ189.html
Or further?
http://www.ddbsarescue.org/

You might also want to try Pit Bull/AmBull/Boxer/Rottie/All breed rescues as well, as you never know where dogs end up or how they get labeled.

Ryanh
September 6th, 2007, 01:30 PM
thanks for the advice.

mafiaprincess
September 6th, 2007, 01:46 PM
If it says 'ckc' and doesn't specify.. they may be selling dogs with cont kc paperwork not canadian kc paperwork as well.

TMac
September 6th, 2007, 05:31 PM
Hi RyanH,

I adopted my dog from the local Humane Society. He is a purebred golden retriever who is registered and we have his papers to prove it. The former owners gave him and all his papers to the shelter instead of returning him to the breeder (which is what they were supposed to do). Just wanted to say you 'can' get a purebred from a shelter.

That said, goldens are much more easily found than mastiffs. You've got some great advice from other posters already, but I just wanted to say it doesn't hurt to register your breed preference at the local shelter. Sometimes you get lucky!

Good luck!
:thumbs up