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Worried about my little girl!

Winston
September 5th, 2007, 09:38 AM
My 11 year old female cat has been acting strange for the past 2 days~!

We are off to the vet this afternoon to hopefully shed some light on it! I dont know if she is really sick or if she has just decided she doesnt like our dog anymore??

On Monday I caught her on the dog blanket covering up something like she would in the litter box? I looked and it appeared that she may have pee'd on his blanket?? Then yesterday I went and replaced a blanket in Winston's crate with a fresh one...about an hour later I go downstairs by his crate and the dog is standing there sniffing his crate?? so I look inside and there was a fresh pee on his blanket....

She has been eating and drinking as normal and no obsessive licking or anything so I dont really know?? I called the vets office today and they told me she should come in right away as it may be renal failure? kidney disease? I am scared to death! she is my little girl (all 6.4 pounds of her!)

I think I jinxed myself too! I just had them in for there yearly checkup and the vet was so impressed with both of my cats.. In 11 years they have never been sick!! and have been really healthy!! So now the vet says that she needs a blood panel done as it has never been done before?

I was thinking maybe a urinary infection??? but why she only pee's on Winston's beds is weird??

Cindy

Jim Hall
September 5th, 2007, 10:43 AM
Good luck at the vets she is definitly trying to tell you something

Lukka'sma
September 5th, 2007, 10:48 AM
Cindy I hope this turns out not to be anything too serious. Will be waiting for an update from you

Winston
September 5th, 2007, 11:11 AM
Oh ! thanks for the good thoughts ! I am sooo worried! Especially since the vet told me that the blood they need to draw has to come from her neck?? I told her good luck with that! she is a squirmer!!! Well, I will try to stay positive but it is hard! I will keep you posted..

Cindy

Frenchy
September 5th, 2007, 11:33 AM
Let's hope it's only a urine infection :fingerscr :goodvibes:

Love4himies
September 5th, 2007, 11:40 AM
I hope it is nothing serious.

Don't worry about taking blood from the neck, it seems bad, but I have had two cats that have had to have bloodwork taken from there and they recovered right after.

mummummum
September 5th, 2007, 12:03 PM
:fingerscr that she is just ticked with Winston and is whizzing on his blanket as punishment!

hazelrunpack
September 5th, 2007, 12:28 PM
Hopin' for good news from the vet! :grouphug: Lots of :fingerscr and crossed :pawprint:s here waiting for the good report! :goodvibes:

TeriM
September 5th, 2007, 03:20 PM
I hope its nothing serious :goodvibes: :fingerscr .

Winston
September 5th, 2007, 03:35 PM
Well we are back!! Tabitha was not very nice at the vets! All of her 6 pounds put up such a fight that they had to give her gas in order to take the blood from the neck! Apparently she fought them tooth and nail! :laughing: and even decided to pee on one of the vet techs! They drew the blood and they suspect it is a urinary infection for now! They are a bit concerned because there was some blood in her urine and it is really stinky!! They brought her back to me about 5 minutes after having the gas and it was the worst thing I ever saw! I thought she was dead! she was lying still, tongue hanging out the side of her mouth and then she started flopping around! OMG I almost had a heart attack! It took a few minutes before she came around!

Then the fun started..the vet said if it is urinary then you should put them on Hills CD Diet....blah! blah! blah! Now they always were on Hills CD for crystals as a preventative because my male cat had a infection years and years ago...but I changed their food about 4 months ago once I learned the real ingrediants in food! and they have been on Orijen since without any problems..and the vet was told this already...She agreed with me previously that she thought the Orijen ingrediants were excellent? so now we are back to Hills! (how quickly she forgot?) she said to wait for her bloodpanel to come back and see what her ph level is at?? Then she says to me Science Diet (Hills) is one of the best foods you can buy?

On the way home she pee'd again in her cage so I brought her in and tried to clean her up because she has long hair and she had pee all over herself!! my poor girl! no dignity left! and she then goes downstairs and pee's in Winstons crate! (got smart! no blankey in their this time!) ...so I guess I am in for a fun few days?? The vet prescribed zenoquin 25mg 1 time per day!

Cindy

hazelrunpack
September 5th, 2007, 03:44 PM
I hope she's easier to pill than to draw blood from? :fingerscr

Sounds like an "eventful" trip--but the UTI diagnosis is a heck of a lot better than renal failure! :grouphug: Must be a bit of a relief! :fingerscr that the meds work quickly and Winston can have his bankie back! :dog:

chico2
September 5th, 2007, 03:51 PM
Winston,you vet sounds just like mine,push the Hills,even if they are not sick!!
What about feeding her just wet food instead??
I am lucky with all 3 of my cats,they freeze at the vet,Rocky needs bloodtests every 6 months and he just lets them do whatever they have to do.
As for pilling,there is NO way I could stick a pill in Rockys throat,I mash his pill in a teaspoon of wet food and he eats it all.
Good luck with your girl:pray:

Lukka'sma
September 5th, 2007, 04:40 PM
hope Tabitha is back to herself real soon:thumbs up

Winston
September 5th, 2007, 04:41 PM
Oh the fun is just beginning!! I gave Tabitha her pill and she threw it up about 15 minutes later....so I called the vet and they said that I cant give her another because they are pretty strong! and to top it off she is wondering around the house trying to pee..I put her in her box and she had a poop! not looking too good...and I watched her wonder around some more and she pee'd on the livingroom floor! so off the be secluded she went...she was going crazy in the bathroom trying to open the door scratching on it etc etc...so I just let her out about 10 minutes ago and she starts her search for a secluded spot to go again! so just as she goes to do it I pick her up and take her to the littler box where she went a little bit! but she went right back wondering around so she is back in the bathroom for now...

The vet said to keep her confined for a couple of days! OMG I cant do that! First of all she would escape from the bathroom everytime we went into it! the rest of the house has either hardwood or carpet in the room??? I cant lock her in the basement because there is no door to keep her down there!! I just dont want her to be peeing all over the house...it really stinks!! :confused:

Boy she is mad at me!

Jim Hall
September 5th, 2007, 04:49 PM
oh boy did you try moving the litter box into the bath room and not watching her try to pee?

Winston
September 5th, 2007, 04:51 PM
yes..she is in there now with food , water, litterbox ..but she is too busy to pee now because she has been scratching the door for about 10 minutes now straight!

Jim Hall
September 5th, 2007, 04:52 PM
poor girl she will settle down

Frenchy
September 5th, 2007, 09:03 PM
Then the fun started..the vet said if it is urinary then you should put them on Hills CD Diet....blah! blah! blah!

Maybe it would be best for now ? Everytime my cats / dogs had a peticuliar problem that needed a special diet , for a special problem , this food (vet ones) would work. But I always go back to my food once the problem has gone away. Thank dog :D it's only an infection. Good luck with the pills , mmmmwwwaaa ! :evil:

No really , good luck :fingerscr

Rottielover
September 5th, 2007, 09:15 PM
Now. Tigger was diagnosed with crystals 2 1/2 weeks ago, he was put on the medial equivalent of the c/d. he could not contain it, was throwing up and diarrhea. So I have put him on uretic by wysong. He is doing great now, and so far no return of anything, stools are great, and no vomiting. Uretic is supposed to help lower the PH, if you want to look at wysongs website

Winston
September 7th, 2007, 07:07 AM
Update on Tabitha!

Her blood work came back with some concerns. First off they tell me she has a bacterial infection with alot of blood in her urine. So the remedy is 2 weeks of zenoquin.

Bloodwork

ph6.5 %
thyroid perfect
she had no visible crystals
glucose 9.83 (apparently is should be between 3.9 - 8)
kidney function 1 normal and the other is scored between 50 - 177 (creatine?? not sure of spelling) and she is at 246
she had 4+ blood in urine

SO they immediately want her on HIlls K/D food? I have so many questions now?

They were on T/D and C/D food for almost 10 years and I switched them to Orijen as I felt it was a far better food?? so is it because I put them on that? The vet has no food knowledge really...they just kept saying to reduce the protein because she is senior? So I will be going back for a bag of that to start with but I dont like the ingrediants already...

hills dry k/d cat food

Ingredients
Brewers Rice, Corn Gluten Meal, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Chicken By-Product Meal, Dried Egg Product, Soy Fiber, Dried Chicken, Fish Meal, Chicken Liver Flavor, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Potassium Citrate, DL-Methionine, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Iodized Salt, Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Calcium Sulfate, L-Tryptophan, Ethoxyquin (a preservative), Beta-Carotene.



Does anyone know about things like ph levels? and glucose readings?

Cindy

Catzig
September 7th, 2007, 02:57 PM
Winston, do you ever come to Toronto? I have a bag of the k/d I bought a couple of weeks ago, less a little scoopful. I was trying it to see if Oscar (:rip: my little buddy) would be tempted to eat anything. I put most of it in the freezer right when I opened it. You are welcome to it if we can find a way to get it to you.

sugarcatmom
September 7th, 2007, 03:32 PM
Update on Tabitha!

Her blood work came back with some concerns. First off they tell me she has a bacterial infection with alot of blood in her urine. So the remedy is 2 weeks of zenoquin.

Bloodwork

ph6.5 %
thyroid perfect
she had no visible crystals
glucose 9.83 (apparently is should be between 3.9 - 8)
kidney function 1 normal and the other is scored between 50 - 177 (creatine?? not sure of spelling) and she is at 246
she had 4+ blood in urine

SO they immediately want her on HIlls K/D food? I have so many questions now?

They were on T/D and C/D food for almost 10 years and I switched them to Orijen as I felt it was a far better food?? so is it because I put them on that? The vet has no food knowledge really...they just kept saying to reduce the protein because she is senior? So I will be going back for a bag of that to start with but I dont like the ingrediants already...

Does anyone know about things like ph levels? and glucose readings?

Cindy

I'm afraid your vet isn't very up-to-date on the latest research regarding feline renal issues and protein. Old school thinking was to lower protein, but now the theory is that it's not so much the quantity of protein as it is the quality. And no cat with kidney issues should be on any dry food. Period. A good quality meat-based canned food, low in phosphorous (phosphorous is a much more important issue than protein) is your best bet, and would also be better for her UTI. Grain-free Wellness varieties fit the criteria. http://www.catinfo.org/#Common_Feline_Health_Problems_and_Their_Ties_to_D iet_

As for the glucose reading, it actually isn't that high, considering. Stress-induced hyperglycemia is very common when cats are at the vet, and by the sounds of it, Tabitha was a tad feisty there. I wouldn't worry about that number at all.

chico2
September 7th, 2007, 04:17 PM
Sugarcatmom,you always have an awful lot of good advice and seem very knowledgable,are you working with a vet???
Or are you selftaught from experience?
Sorry to be nosy:cat:

chloe_close
September 7th, 2007, 04:30 PM
Ooooh that sucks... sorry to hear about your kitty...
I went through the exact same thing with one of my kitties a few years ago, the vet tried to get me to use their food too, luckily I knew someone at the time that knew a lot about pet food. They suggested I switch to wet food, which I did, I went to canned Wellness and never had a problem since.
As to the pill problem, my guy would also fight and/or throw up the pill, I got smart and crushed them up and then mixed them with a little gravy from KFC. ;) Pretty soon he was looking forward to pill time. :thumbs up
I also had to lock him in the bathroom, which was very uncool for both of us, fortunately the meds took effect quickly and it wasn't a very long confinement. Good luck!

Winston
September 7th, 2007, 08:22 PM
Sugarcatmom what does the high number for the kidney mean? 246? does this mean her one kidney is working harder than the other or less than the other? or is this number high because she has a bacterial infection??my vet is useless? it was one of the techs that told me the results?? I am so worried about this kidney issue? Especially due to her tiny size..

Also, why no dried food? just wondering because I have never fed the soft food ever? it used to be common practice for the vet to tell you never to give soft food because of their teeth but I guess things have changed?

I think the pills are starting to take affect because she is not so grumpy today!

Cindy

sugarcatmom
September 8th, 2007, 12:18 PM
Sugarcatmom what does the high number for the kidney mean? 246? does this mean her one kidney is working harder than the other or less than the other? or is this number high because she has a bacterial infection??my vet is useless? it was one of the techs that told me the results?? I am so worried about this kidney issue? Especially due to her tiny size..

kidney function 1 normal and the other is scored between 50 - 177 (creatine?? not sure of spelling) and she is at 246


Typically, the two most important blood tests for kidney function are BUN (blood urea nitrogen) and creatinine. I just assumed that the first one above, the normal one, was the BUN, but you might want to confirm that with your vet.

As for the creatinine value (246), it is possible for it to be high due to a kidney infection (caused when bacteria-filled urine backs up into the kidney). Usually if there is a very sudden increase in BUN and creatinine, it's indicative of kidney infection (pyelonephritis), but without recent bloodwork to compare to, it would be tough to diagnose without an ultrasound. It might be worth a recheck of blood/urine after Tabitha is done her course of antibiotics, although I have heard that if a kidney infection is present, it requires at least 4-6 weeks of antibiotics, often more.

Other important indicators of kidney function are Urine Specific Gravity (USG) and proteinuria (excess protein in the urine), specifically the urine protein:creatinine ratio.


Also, why no dried food? just wondering because I have never fed the soft food ever? it used to be common practice for the vet to tell you never to give soft food because of their teeth but I guess things have changed?

The big thing with dry food is that it's, well, dry. You see, one of the kidney's jobs is to filter and eliminate waste products from the blood. These products need to be "escorted" out with fluids, and if there aren't enough fluids around, the toxins will build up. As chronic renal failure (CRF) progresses, one of the treatments is administering subcutaneous fluids, but why not at least start with adequate hydration through diet? It's so silly to be giving a cat SubQ fluids while at the same time feeding it a food with a 10% or less moisture content.

Adding either phosphate binders or cooked egg white to canned food would be a much better idea than feeding a protein-restricted dry food. Here's an excerpt from this book: YOUR CAT, Simple New Secrets to a Longer, Stronger Life (http://www.amazon.com/Your-Cat-Simple-Secrets-Stronger/dp/0312358016/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-1121778-6836659?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179210413&sr=8-1)

The normal cat kidney is a very efficient water-saving organ. This capability is extremely important to an animal that evolved in arid and semiarid environments as the cat did. In the cat with CRF, the kidneys become increasingly unable to save water for reuse in the body. When this patient receives almost no moisture in its diet, this problem can become life-threatening. In fact, it is possible that years of consumption of dry cat foods contributes to the development of CRF in healthy cats by setting up a chronic state of dehydration. Chronic dehydration is as unhealthful for cats as it is for humans, and perhaps even more so.

Some good sites you might want to check out: http://www.felinecrf.org/index.htm
http://www.felinecrf.com/

Winston
September 9th, 2007, 02:56 PM
Sugarcatmom thank you for those links!!

I went ot pick up the vet prescribed k/d food yesterday and asked a couple of questions further about Tabitha and her test results...The glucose being high could be attributed to the test / procedure itself...they feel monitoring it and the food change should help her there..:confused:

As for the number I was given of 246 that is her Creatinine level..the normal range being between 50 - 177....So she has renal failure..the higher the number the worse it is...but they want to change the food and see her in 6 months??? She is not herself right now and I imagine it is not pleasant having these problems..I did catch her pee on Winston's bed again today so I took her right down to the litter box and placed her inside and she then had a poop?? so I dont know whats going on in her head!! no more beds on the floor for now!! and steady monitoring her...( I couldnt scold her though!! ) She is eating the new food but I have mixed it for now....I just cant seem too stop the runny poops for her!

The vet tech tells me "dont worry!" many cats live off the food for a few years, then sometimes have some difficulty and we can prescribe ??? and then usually that is it!!! :yell::yell: I almost fell over?? Was she trying to tell me I only have so much time?? :confused:

Cindy

mummummum
September 9th, 2007, 06:24 PM
:grouphug:Winston :grouphug: Looking at food alternatives in the advice / links given by sugarcatmom makes alot of sense.

sugarcatmom
September 9th, 2007, 06:37 PM
The glucose being high could be attributed to the test / procedure itself...they feel monitoring it and the food change should help her there..:confused:

Hi Cindy,

A food change to K/D will do anything BUT help her in the blood glucose department. I know of a number of cats who became diabetic after they were put on K/D dry. It contains a ridiculously high amount of carbohydrates (35% of it's calories are from carbs), which overburdens the feline pancreas as it now has to churn out a boat-load of insulin to deal with what is basically a sugar-rush every time the cat eats it.

If you want to monitor Tabitha's glucose levels at home, you can pick up some Bayer Diastix (http://www.diabeticsupplies.com/cgi-bin/ds/BYR380221.html) dipsticks from any pharmacy and test her urine yourself. If glucose does spill over from her bloodstream into her urine and registers on the dipstick, that means her blood glucose level is probably above 11 and should be looked at more closely. I think the main issue to worry about right now though is her renal insufficiency.

Do you know if the vet was able to check her blood pressure? High blood pressure is a problem that often goes hand-in-hand with CRF and should be treated very seriously. An ACE inhibitor like benazepril can be beneficial for CRF cats. If your vet doesn't have equipment for testing blood pressure, you absolutely must go somewhere that does.

The vet tech tells me "dont worry!" many cats live off the food for a few years, then sometimes have some difficulty and we can prescribe ??? and then usually that is it!!! :yell::yell: I almost fell over?? Was she trying to tell me I only have so much time?? :confused:

Cindy

Cats can live a great many years with CRF, especially if their caretakers are proactive about it. Diet is definitely a key factor, but I strongly disagree that it has to be a low protein one, and most especially not a dry one. No, I'm not a vet, nor do I play one on TV, but one thing I know an awful lot about is feline nutrition. More than many vets, I'm willing to wager. Your average vet, particularly one with a general practice where the cat clientele make up only 30% of the visits, just isn't going to have the time or need to research every aspect of feline care. They're going read one or two diet studies (all paid for by Big Pet Food, by the way) and treat accordingly. Which is not always correctly, I'm afraid.

If you could at least try feeding Tabitha some canned food (again, Wellness is good because of its lower phosphorous) to see if she's even open to the concept, you'll be ahead of the game. Phosphorous binders and/or the use of a supplement called calcitrol will go a lot further towards keeping a kidney-kitty healthy than merely depriving it of protein will. Cats need protein, that's all there is to it.

From the book I mentioned previously:
Even when they are ill, cats continue to have very high protein requirements compared to most other animals. In fact, the debilitated cat may well have a higher protein requirement than its healthy counterpart. Yet the protein-restricted diet offers the CRF patient lower protein levels than the commercial foods of its younger, healthier years. Add to this the fact that the CRF patient finds this already protein-restricted diet unappetizing, and some degree of protein deficiency becomes certain. The pet food companies argue that as long as the quality of the protein in the diet is high, restricting the quantity of protein holds no danger of protein deficiency for the cat with kidney problems. This claim is not supported by science or clinical observations.

The quality of protein is a measure of its digestibility and essential amino acid components. The cat requires both quality and quantity in its protein intake for health maintenance and recovery from disease. This is because it uses protein not only for tissue construction and repair, but also for energy production (see chapter 1). The cat on a protein-restricted diet cannot repair its own ailing body or produce enough energy to meet its needs. As a result, it wastes away and dies, and CRF gets all the blame. There have never been any scientific studies showing long-term benefits from a reduction in dietary protein that justify this restriction, compared to low-carbohydrate diets with higher protein, in the cat with CRF.

That was written by a rather famous vet in the cat world, Dr. Elizabeth Hodgkins. She's been practicing for 30 yrs, has a cat-only practice in California that specializes in diabetes, and was the only vet invited to testify at the Senate hearings in the US regarding the recent pet food recall. She also has a law degree, used to work for Hill's, and developed a canned food specifically for diabetic cats. She's one smart cookie.

Winston
September 9th, 2007, 08:09 PM
Thank you so much! No I am pretty sure they did not take her blood pressure at least not with me there! They gave her gas so they might have??

I did try the wellness grain free cans last week in an effort to try a canned food and they both ate it...but you have to remember they are in heaven right now because they have never had the canned food really in there whole life..I may give them one of those tiny cans 1 a year as a treat?? only because that is what the vets always used to preach!

I only bought the k/d food because I was almost out of Orijen and had to think about what to give them which might take some research so the small bag is what I have for now. I would still like to give them a dry portion to their meal because I have found that it really helps my guys with their teeth ! they are nice and clean!

I guess I have some reading to do because I am confused!! Do you think there is any coincidence that I fed my cats Hills TD & CD combined together for at least 10 years and they had no problems with urinary infections or anything...now a few months onto the Orijen this has happened? I know its probably not the case but it makes me wonder? even though I know that the food is not good now? I really was not educated in food before I came to this site looking for some help awhile ago! which there are so many here with great information!

Cindy

Winston
October 20th, 2007, 02:49 PM
Well I took Tabitha back to the vets today..She is still peeing on any of the beds I put down for Winston! and only his beds...It would seem she really doesn't like him anymore...She is funny too because if I put out his bed and he goes on it...she trys to play with him by laying down on her side and stretching out to try and swat him....but I need to rule out whether it is still the infection she had or behaviour...

The vet kept her for a few hours and gave her sub q fluids and took the urine sample they needed...wow it was an expensive test @ 117.00...they said it is a complete work up..but I guess a blood work up (which she had last time) and urine workup this time are different! I also noticed in my struggles to pill her she had some cracking/chapped look on her pads but vet said she is just getting old and it is part of her genetics?? her brother doesn't have it though! and not to worry about it...

She was not a happy girl when I left her...but when I went to go pick her up the vet told me her urine did not look right.. it was really dark and thick...so now I am back to worrying again!! Also I cannot seem to find a canned food that she likes..she has now snubbed all of the wellness flavors..she ate it a few times and she gets the runs really bad so I suppose she remembers that...

The wet food seems strange for my cats. almost like they dont know how to eat it...the tend to just lick it rather than eat pieces of it?? unless that is normal?

Cindy

Frenchy
October 20th, 2007, 05:37 PM
The wet food seems strange for my cats. almost like they dont know how to eat it...the tend to just lick it rather than eat pieces of it?? unless that is normal?

Cindy

Are you feeding kibble too ? I make a kinda soup for mine and it works. I mix the kibble with the can food and add water, it's gross but I'm not the one eating it :D And they like it this way. Good luck with the urine test results , when are you going to get them ?

Winston
October 20th, 2007, 06:45 PM
Results wont be back until Tuesday! I do feed the kibble...it is the Hills K/D...They do seem to like the kibble. Good idea with the food mixing..maybe I will try that....it might be hard with Tabitha..she is a weird cat..I will fill up the kibble and she will sit in front of the dish until I take a hand ful out and place it on the table....and that is what she eats...and other times she goes in the bowl??

My biggest problem is that I free feed the kibble so it would sit around until they decide to eat it???

I am really hoping that this is not her kidney getting worse causing her to be this way! Frenchy how is Paddington and Monsier Le Chat? oh and I cant forget your other fur babies!

Cindy

sugarcatmom
October 20th, 2007, 07:42 PM
The wet food seems strange for my cats. almost like they dont know how to eat it...the tend to just lick it rather than eat pieces of it?? unless that is normal?

I think that's one of those "every-cat-is-different" things. My guy is a licker rather than a chewer. He won't touch canned food that isn't a nice smooth paté, although he does like to gnaw on some raw meat occasionally. :rolleyes:

Do you suppose maybe a lower fat canned food would agree better with Tabitha's digestive system? Wellness tends to be fairly high in fat (60%ish, a lot of the low-carb foods are), I wonder if she'd like some of the Eagle Pack flavours (in the 50% range) better. Purina also makes lower fat canned food in their Pro Plan line-up (the Turkey & Giblets is only 39% fat) but they do contain wheat gluten and some meat by-products. Could be a good food to transition with though.

Also, you can free-feed canned food, that's what I do. Some days Aztec is still picking at the crusty bits left from a meal 12 hrs before, and he's never had any resulting digestive issues. What I wouldn't do is leave moistened dry food lying around for very long, that's when the bacteria will thrive.

:fingerscr that the test results are normal!

Frenchy
October 20th, 2007, 09:13 PM
My biggest problem is that I free feed the kibble so it would sit around until they decide to eat it???



I give them the same amount every 12 hours , sometimes they leave bits and and pieces , never a lot.

Paddington and Monsieur le chat are doing great. Actually , I think with Paddy , we created a monster :laughing: he is ruling the house , but still respects Monsieur le chat :D

growler~GateKeeper
October 20th, 2007, 11:18 PM
:fingerscr good luck with the test results :goodvibes:

rainbow
October 20th, 2007, 11:37 PM
I somehow managed to miss this thread. :o Sorry to hear about Tabitha. :sad: Hoping you get good test results. :fingerscr :goodvibes:

Winston
October 22nd, 2007, 08:05 PM
I bought these 2 tonight......Tabitha ate all of the Grammas Pot Pie and even some of her brothers...It is really liquidy!

Grammys' Pot Pie 3.2oz
No one can ever forget the sensational aroma of Grammy’s kitchen and her renowned chicken pot pie. Grammy’s two Siamese cats are around her feet hoping for tidbit to fall off the cutting board. The scent of tender chunks of real chicken smothered in seasoned gravy, fresh carrots, peas and red jacket new potatoes fill the house. Both cats know what is in store and follow Grammy in and out of each room until a portion of her signature entree is put into the dish in the corner, along with a saucer of milk. Our family loves animals and we thought it was about time to share this great taste with yours. The tender chunks of chicken are sure to make your cat meet you at the dish each time, even if they have to eat their vegetables. Grammy Merrick sends her best.

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein (Min.) 10.00%
Crude Fat (Min.) 3.00%
Crude Fiber (Max.) 1.5%
Moisture (Max.) 78.00%
Ash (Max.) 1.80%
Magnesium (Max.) .025%
Taurine (Min.) .08%

Calorie Content
992 kcal/kg - A 3.2oz. can provides 87 kcal of metabolizable energy, calculated value.

Ingredients:
Chicken, Chicken Broth, Turkey Liver, Fresh Red Jacket New Potatoes, Fresh Carrots, Fresh Snow Peas, Fresh Whole Red Delicious Apples, Potato Starch-modified, Olive Oil, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Tricalcium Phosphate, Cassia Gum, Carrageenan, Flax Seed Oil (For Omega -3), Poultry Seasoning (Thyme, Sage, Rosemary) Choline Chloride, Salt, Taurine, Mixed Tocopherols, Vitamin E Supplement, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Iron Amino Acid Complex, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Copper Amino Acid Complex,d-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Niacin, Lecithin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Cobalt Glucoheptanate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin,Thiamine Mononitrate, Sodium Selenite.

Grammy's Pot Pie is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Cat Food nutrient profiles for all life stages.


and

Nature's Variety Instinct Canned Chicken and Turkey For Cats

Nature's Chicken Formula
Instinct Canned Diet for Cats

Grain-free
95% Chicken, turkey & liver
Omega fatty acids for healthy skin and coat
Chelated minerals for better nutrient absorption

Complete and balanced for all life stages


Healthy, Natural Ingredients
Chicken, Turkey, Chicken Broth, Chicken Liver, Flaxseed, Tricalcium Phosphate, Eggs, Peas, Carrots, Lecithin, Vitamins (Choline Chloride, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Biotin, Riboflavin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid), Dried Kelp, Salt, Calcium Carbonate, Taurine, Potassium Chloride, Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Sodium Selenite, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide), Artichokes, Cranberries, Pumpkin, Tomato, Blueberries, Broccoli, Cabbage, Kale, Parsley.

Instinct Chicken Formula for Cats is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Cat Food Nutrient Profile for All Life Stages.

Feeding Guide and Instructions
Feed according to the age, size and activity of your cat. Feed at room temperature and refrigerate unused portion. Your cat should always have access to clean fresh water. ADULT: Feed about one can per 6-8 lbs. of body weight per day. KITTEN: Feed up to twice the adult amount to kittens. GESTATION & LACTATION: Feed up to three times the normal adult amount.

For more detailed feeding information based on your pet's weight and activity level, please visit our Interactive Feeding Guideline.

Sizes Available
5.5 oz (156 grams)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein (min) 9.0%
Crude Fat (min) 7.0%
Crude Fiber (max) 3.0%
Moisture (max) 75.0%

Calories
209 per 5.5 oz can

Fatty Acids
Omega 6 Fatty Acids (min): 1.1%
Omega 3 Fatty Acids (min): 0.25%

Minerals
Calcium: 0.384%
Phosphorus: 0.307%
Magnesium: 0.029%
Sodium: 0.114%
Potassium: 0.273%
Chloride: 0.181%
Iron: 41.824 mg/kg
Zinc: 54.763 mg/kg
Copper: 5.965 mg/kg
Manganese: 9.221 mg/kg
Iodine: 0.756 mg/kg
Selenium: 0.089 mg/kg
Ash: 2.206%

Vitamins
Vitamin A: 44125.652 IU/kg
Vitamin D: 346.645 IU/kg
Vitamin E: 34.396 IU/kg
Thiamin (Vitamin B1): 4.336 mg/kg
Riboflavin (Vitamin B2): 5.239 mg/kg
Pantothenic Acid: 9.947 mg/kg
Niacin: 46.437 mg/kg
Pyridoxine (Vitamin B6): 3.136 mg/kg
Folic Acid: 1.139 mg/kg
Biotin: 0.199 mg/kg
Vitamin B12: 0.026 mcg/kg
Vitamin C: 41.211 mg/kg
Choline: 1779.957 mg/kg

Amino Acids
Arginine: 0.665%
Histidine: 0.269%
Isoleucine: 0.517%
Leucine: 0.787%
Lysine: 0.852%
Methionine: 0.270%
Methionine-Cystine: 0.508%
Phenylalanine: 0.432%
Phenylalanine-Tyrosine: 0.772%
Threonine: 0.411%
Tryptophan: 0.136%
Valine: 0.489%
Taurine: 1020 mg/kg



Cindy

Jim Hall
October 22nd, 2007, 08:28 PM
sounds good im gonna see if mikes has it I cant get du off of the damn fancy feast which is salmon and whet gluten IE a fish sandwich

Winston
October 23rd, 2007, 02:58 PM
Okay! I am more confused than ever before with my girl! I just got the results back from the Urinary / Culture test...This is what the vet says:

her ph is 6.5 with 4+ blood (from blood tests a few weeks ago)
her ph is 6.5 with 4+ blood (from urine test on saturday)

the blood test previously showed bacteria with a high white cell count
there were no crystals evident in urine test

from her last test her white blood cell count was between 30-50 and this time around it is 1-3 ??? I dont understand this part??

from her last test her red blood cell were 3 - 50
now they say less than 50?????

this urine test showed no growth on the culture so the vet said that is a result of the anitbiotic..

Here is what the vet said to do...She can do a neosystogram (hopefully spelled right!) and this will show the bladder...they will put her under..drain the bladder...fill it with air...take a picture...see what it shows...This will show a stone maybe...it may show if there is a tumor or something?? or maybe a tear?? The thing is that her urine test did not show any signs of crystals..so it may be unlikely she has stones...I am so confused???? The test is $400.00 and its not the money I am worried about ...it is the test result...I have a feeling it will show no stones? so why do it? I have to put her out too which I worry about?? her urine has blood in it but they said no crystals present??

So no prescription to refill and the only solution offered was this neosystogram xray??

And so you all understand why I am doing this....this started out as a URI about a month ago...she has been on 2 different pills for the URI...She is not acting sick or anything, she is 11 yrs old, very petitte @ 6.4 pounds..she has bee the same weight for her whole life!! BUT she continues to pee on any blanket / dog ped I put down for Winston!! I am sure your all laughing now! IT is only his beds/blankies...I have mats on the floor in the kitchen and down the hall and she doesnt do it on them or anywhere else in the house!! and I have watched her pee in the 2 litter boxes so I know she is also using them! I have also taken the beds and stuff away for over a week..put it back down on the floor , went in the shower and came out to a pee on his bed! which made me think behaviour issues but I have to rule out her health first??

I just cannot see why her ph is still 6.5 and 4+ blood in the urine?

Does anyone else have any thoughts here?

Cindy

I also asked the vet tech who I really like point blank "what will the test tell me?" she replied only a stone...

Jim Hall
October 23rd, 2007, 03:29 PM
other than peeing on the dogs bed she has no other symptoms i say its behavioral

Winston
October 23rd, 2007, 06:41 PM
the medical issue that remains is that she 4+ blood in her urine but unknown why?

and the beds of course??

Winston
October 24th, 2007, 03:37 PM
Found this cute pic of one of her sleeping spots!

growler~GateKeeper
October 24th, 2007, 10:40 PM
She's purrty I want to kiss her cute little pink nose :lovestruck:

growler~GateKeeper
October 24th, 2007, 10:50 PM
Sounds like cystitis (inflammation of the bladder)/FUS/FLUTD

http://www.homevet.com/petcare/cystitis.html

Read GROUP TWO cats w/out blockage/unknown source:
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&C=&A=612&SourceID=

:goodvibes: :fingerscr

hazelrunpack
October 24th, 2007, 11:23 PM
She sure is a cutie, Winston. I'm right behind growler in the line to kiss her purrty pink nose! :lovestruck:

But I have absolutely no experience with cats, so after I get my kiss, I'll bow back out of your thread and let the experts take over again. :o I hope you find out what's going on with her soon, Winston :fingerscr

Love4himies
October 25th, 2007, 06:41 AM
I am so sorry you are having this issue with Tabitha.

Crystals and stones are different things, you can have stones and no crystals or vise versa. I could be wrong, but I think stones would show up on a simple xray, which would be much cheaper than neosystogram xray, not sure if it would pick up any growths though.

chico2
October 30th, 2007, 06:31 AM
Winston,so sorry to read about pretty Tabitha,I hope there is a solution for her:pray:
I am surprised the only way to see crystals is this expensive test:confused:I always thought a regular X-ray would do it.
As for the food,I have finally gotten my cats off Fancy Feast,I tried them all,Merrick,Wellness,Mother Hubbard etc...and finally tried Pet Values Performatrin Life Stages(3oz cans),it's double the price of FF,but probably not the best,however all 3 of my cats like it and I am happy with it,of course they only like the pate-type,no slices or chunks for them.
As for lickers,Chico always licks his food.
Good luck with little Tabitha:cat:

shredy
October 30th, 2007, 02:11 PM
My only experience is with dogs, but I had a similar expereiince with Shade. She had a high WBC count with no bacteria and lots of crystals. They said that an x-ray would not show the stones, but an ultrasound will (this would also see any masses as well). Maybe they are doing this test to look at the structural integrity of her bladder. If you have more questions about the test surely your vet should be willing to discuss this with you. I would also ask what your other options are. (Shade ended up being ok with antibiotics and they said it was probably just bladder wall inflammation. They did not see anything on the ultrasound)

The decrease in WBC count is good, that means that the antibiotics are working.
The blood is mildly concerning because that should also clear up with the infection so they are trying to find the source Poor Winston, he is probably hurt that she keeps using his beds for a bathroom... Good luck

shredy
October 30th, 2007, 02:24 PM
Ok so I looked into this a little more, it is a pneumocystogram which is introducing air into the bladder to evaluate bladder position, integrity, distensibility, walls thickness and for stones, masses, or diverticuli. This is where I found the information. I googled "pneumocystography bladder cats" I hope this helps.

Winston
November 21st, 2007, 03:08 PM
Well, tomorrow is the big day for Tabitha's pneumocystogram....I have had to wait for this because the vet was away for a couple of weeks and between her lousy hours and my schedule we couldn't do it any sooner.

So I need some good vibes for tomorrow! I dont care if it is Setter Spittle or that Magic Fairy dust...I just want it to go okay and to be able to find a solution! I am probably overly worried but she is my baby! Her and her brother are my first pets I have owned, and I love them to pieces...I guess it is hard for me because she has never been sick in the 11 years I have been blessed to have her!

Cindy

Oh! the good thing is Winston can have his bed back while she is gone! This way she cant pee on it!! :laughing:..It is so funny because I bring his bed out now while I supervise and when he see's it coming he is so excited and happy that he lays down on it...begins to suck on the corner...and will sometimes fall asleep that way! :laughing:

chico2
November 21st, 2007, 03:32 PM
Cindy Rocky,Chico,Vinnie and I are sending out tons of good vibes to beautiful Tabitha:pray:
Hopefully there will be some treatable results and :grouphug:to poor Winston who keeps losing his bed.:sad:

phoozles
November 21st, 2007, 03:43 PM
:goodvibes::goodvibes::goodvibes: Hope everything goes well - it sucks to have a sick kitty, but at least you are doing all you can to help! She's lucky to have a great mom like you! :goodvibes:

growler~GateKeeper
November 21st, 2007, 08:17 PM
lots & lots of :goodvibes: :goodvibes: :goodvibes: :goodvibes: & :fingerscr for Tabitha

http://bestsmileys.com/magic/7.gif

Frenchy
November 21st, 2007, 08:28 PM
So I need some good vibes for tomorrow! I dont care if it is Setter Spittle or that Magic Fairy dust...

How about some goldens drools , some great dane drool and ... hummm .... my cats don't drool :shrug: but I'm sure you'll have enough with the doggies spit :D

Good luck tomorrow :fingerscr

Winston
November 21st, 2007, 09:02 PM
Thanks guys! boy everyone is going to mad after midnight! No water!!!

I appreciate all the good thoughts and will keep you posted! Thanks for the support!

Cindy

shredy
November 21st, 2007, 09:06 PM
Oh! the good thing is Winston can have his bed back while she is gone! This way she cant pee on it!! :laughing:..It is so funny because I bring his bed out now while I supervise and when he see's it coming he is so excited and happy that he lays down on it...begins to suck on the corner...and will sometimes fall asleep that way! :laughing:

Sending you lots of good vibes :goodvibes::goodvibes::goodvibes: I don't have fairy dust or setter spittle, but I do have puppy breath, kisses, and belly and we are sending all of that your way :fingerscr:fingerscr Hopefully the procedure goes well and you find some answers for tabitha

And Winston sounds soooo cute, he just wants his binkie back!!! :laughing::laughing:

Winston
November 21st, 2007, 09:10 PM
Thanks Shredy! I will take some of that Chloe Puppy breath and all! Yeah Winston was trained to always be on his bed when he lies around the house so this is a big adjustment for him to not have one....His eyes light up when he see's his binkie coming :laughing:....Funny how they become so used to things?

Cindy

otter
November 21st, 2007, 09:18 PM
:goodvibes::goodvibes: for Tabitha! We can offer some Golden drool :dog:, Kitty drool too :cat:(are mine the only cats in the world that drool when they are content?)

I sure hope you can get some answers and solutions so everyone can get back to their regular scheduled days.

Poor Winston, a big :grouphug: for him too! (and Winston... mommies make good binkies:D)

H.P.
November 21st, 2007, 09:34 PM
Happy thoughts and kitty drool coming your way (JoCat is a HUGE happy drooler):cat:, Syd sends kisses

Winston
November 22nd, 2007, 08:17 AM
Well we had sleepless night! The two cats drove me crazy for their food...I never really have taken it away before and they free feed so it was hard on them to see it gone?? Tabitha howled all the way to the vets this morning ..I hate that cry! I told the girl at the office to take good care of my girl and she looked and me like I was from Mars??? Oh well it will all be over soon..I should know more this afternoon!

Thanks for all the support here! Funny some people think I am nuts! to be worried so much??

Cindy

chico2
November 22nd, 2007, 10:05 AM
Winston,almost the worst part is keeping their food away from them:sad:
:fingerscrlittle Tabitha is dong ok:fingerscr
No,you are definetly not nuts,just nuts about your cats,which is perfectly normal:cat:people who don't understand are missing out bigtime:cat:

Winston
November 22nd, 2007, 03:32 PM
Well, we are home...However I still am no further ahead...???

Its good news and bad? THe good news is that Tabitha has no stones, no problem with the bladder wasll, no cysts or tumors...but when they went into the bladder she had lots of blood in there...So the vet is stumped...she now has put her on prednisone and another pill called chloramphenicol...

She thinks that maybe she still has a basterial infection...The bad news is that I still dont really have any answers.....she showed me th exam and said she looks excellent....other than she thought the size of her kidney was a little small, but Tabitha is really petite...

So the fun with pilling begins...Not only the prednisone but the other pill cannot be crushed and they warned me to try to get it right the first time because it tastes really bad and it is purple so it runs on whatever it touches!

She is so mad at me right now!

Cindy

chico2
November 22nd, 2007, 03:44 PM
Winston,that is sooo frustrating,but at least stones,crystals and tumours can be scratched off.
I am so relieved I can mash Rockys pill in his food,there is no way I could give him pills twice a day for the rest of his life whole,when I tried it before,he just kept spitting it out:yell:
Do you have one of those piller thingys,don't know what they are called:confused:it might make it easier.

Winston
November 22nd, 2007, 05:05 PM
Well Tabitha has a purple mouth! from the pill..what a mess...my fingers are even stained..and she BIT me! :mad:

Need to keep an eye on her tonight...when we came home I had forgotten a blanket of Winston's on the floor and she pee'd on it but it was ALL blood!! Scared the life out of me! Called the vet and she said it is because they had a catheder in her??? I hope thats all its going to be!

Cindy

Frenchy
November 22nd, 2007, 08:05 PM
That sucks about not getting answers .... and to have to give pills to a cat :yell: I know what Chico2 is talking about , that thing to give pill to a cat , it works pretty well. Saw it on petmeds for about 2.99. Badger gave one to me when I adopted Paddington.

hazelrunpack
November 22nd, 2007, 10:54 PM
I guess I've not been keeping up! This sounds so scary, Cindy! :grouphug:

Those piller things work great--it'll make things so much easier :thumbs up (and safer :eek:).

:fingerscr that things improve with Tabitha quickly with the new meds! Gobs of magical healing Setter Spittle headed your way... :dog: ...and the Pack sends slobbery shnuffles, too (those are the finest kind of shnuffles, you know)

growler~GateKeeper
November 22nd, 2007, 11:08 PM
Did the vet take a bladder cell scrapeing for culturing?

More :goodvibes: for Tabitha

Here (http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2755251&cp=&sr=1&origkw=pill&kw=pill&parentPage=search&keepsr=1) is one kind of piller I can't recommend one over another cuz I've never had to use one, always been able to drop the pill in fairly easily (stopping them from spitting it out is another story:rolleyes:)

Winston
November 30th, 2007, 06:46 PM
I am so frustrated tonight! I feel like the world's most horrible cat owner! Tonight Tabitha gave me the worst fight that I have had yet with her when giving her these darn pills! It is the most horrible thing I have ever seen a cat do! As soon as any part of the pill hits the inside of her mouth the foam starts and keeps coming!! she drools more like a dog!! I had her wrapped in the towel and things were not progressing well and when I tried to squirt some water in her mouth to help with the foaming she flew out of my arms! The worst part was she went flying in the air...she hit the window..fell down..hit the garbage can and then fell to the floor! I was horrified! I have 2 pills left and she is not getting them!! she has become traumatised from the pilling experience..and so have I :mad:

The worst part here is that I dont know where to go from here! She pee'd today for the first time in a couple of days directly in Winston's crate..she hasnt done it in their yet until today! and it appeared to be pinkish in color which tells me she likely still has blood in her urine..and thats is what the concern has been! The vet told me she likely had a stone or something wrong with the bladder and thats why we did the xray of the bladder..That turned out perfect????? so the vet prescribed last visit prednisone and chloramfentical...and the vet said she really doesnt know what is wrong with her?? she said since the xray was fine then it has to be a bacterial infection still!! and the chlorafentical was prescribed because the vet thought that the last kind did not work....

You know I can handle the bit of peeing because it has only been Winston's beds it seems but it is the 4+ parts of blood in her urine that is the issue?? She is getting some cuddles from Daddy right now because she wont come near me...:yell: when I come over to her she crys and starts licking her lips! poor girl!

I am thinking of getting a second opinion?? I guess the vet will likely charge me for her records??

Cindy

shredy
November 30th, 2007, 07:09 PM
:grouphug::grouphug: For both of you!! If you think you want a second opinion your vet SHOULD NOT charge you for your records. You can ask for copies of everything and they have to give it to you. I am sorry it has been so hard for you and frustrating to see her illness continuing with no answer. :goodvibes::goodvibes:

Winston
November 30th, 2007, 07:20 PM
Thanks Shredy! By the way congrats on the exam! have not had a chance to get to all the threads these days!

She is lying sprawled out on Daddys legs having her sleep! I hope she wont be afraid of me for long...:sad:

Cindy

Frenchy
November 30th, 2007, 08:02 PM
Have you tried crushing the pills in cheese , tuna , stuff like that .... I had a cat like that (Missy :rip:) it was always a fight to give her pills. :sad:

Winston
November 30th, 2007, 08:16 PM
The vet said crushing the pill is worse because she wont eat the food and it taste really bad apparently.( I guess that is why she foams instantly) .I also asked if I could break it up and she said no?? I guess it might be a timed release?? not sure..feeling really bad for her tonight!! she is freaked right out whenever I come near her!! :yell:

Cindy

14+kitties
November 30th, 2007, 10:21 PM
Oh Winston, :cry: I just read this thread! Poor Tabitha:sad: The poor baby to be going through this. I also sympathise with you with the pill thing. It's ain't easy giving pills to little ones who just don't know you are trying to help them.
Hang in there. It's gotta get easier. The brood and I are :pray:ing for you. :grouphug:

CearaQC
November 30th, 2007, 10:45 PM
Long shot... but I used to do this with my cat when he would get ticked off from having his claws trimmed. I would tempt him with treats before and after while holding him. After a few times he stopped growling when I trimmed the needles. Those claws really feel like 5 needles, especially when kneading on my shoulder as I hold him. lol

I've had experience getting a cat to take a pill and the trick is to be super quick and kitty would be wrapped up in a towel with only the head sticking out if it's a squirmer. I call it the Capt. Pike hold. lol (Star Trek reference) Then I would push my fingers on the both corners of the mouth at the same time to open it, then push the pill back in the mouth with my index finger really fast and then hold the mouth shut while stroking the throat until kitty licks its lips. The whole process from opening mouth to stroking throat is only a couple of seconds. I don't give kitty enough time to go yuck and spit out the pill. Sounds kinda cold, but I like to take the emotion out of it when doing things at home like giving pills or cleaning ears because I feel all animals feed off our emotions. If I approach it like a job to be done and that it's no big deal then the animals seem to not mind so much.

After a yucky pill, I provide an ultra favorite food that would not be refused no matter kitty's mood. Linx likes tuna or mackerel. Goes from ticked off cat to happy purring cat in a matter of seconds when fish is part of the equation.

TeriM
December 1st, 2007, 01:01 AM
I'm sorry you are having such a rough time :sad::grouphug:.

You could try asking your vet if the meds can be made up into a solution that you rub into their ears and then it gets absorbed into their bloodstream. I don't know if that is an option for your meds but I know that it was an option for my cat and some meds he had to take a few years ago.

Winston
December 1st, 2007, 06:25 AM
Thanks everyone..I have tried everything..The biggest problem is the size of the pill...The predisone is much easier to give...But I am convinced that the pill is not working because she has the same symptoms 2 weeks later??

Whats strange is if she hates the dog?? then why is she curled up in a ball sleeping right beside him? they are bum to bum ????

I just dont understand where the blood could be coming from.. Vet said kidneys fine, bladder perfect?? walls and lining of the bladder looked fine??

And does anyone think her weight would fluctuate not feeling well...she is the same weight 6.4 lbs

chico2
December 1st, 2007, 06:53 AM
Winston,I would go for a second opinion for sure,all this pilling and frustration for both you and Tabitha with no positive result,no answers must drive you bonkers..
What about Guelph Veterinary School???
Not too far from Hamilton and I've heard good things from them,not too expensive either??

growler~GateKeeper
December 1st, 2007, 10:46 PM
Winston - Tabitha peeing in Winstons' bed is not because she hates him, its probably because it hurts to pee (since there's been blood I'd imagine that hurts) & his bed is the softest place she can find close by that she doesn't have to jump up to get to (like your bed/couch).

As for 2nd opinion why not try a homeopathic vet? The meds you've had her on are not helping - the xray showed nothing, why not approach the issues from a non-medicated natural stand point? Perhaps you will discover the reason for this issue instead of over-medicating to mask the problem without finding out why. I've recently been to a homeopathic vet for my CRF cat to try & find alternative help for her, their approach to health care is simple, natural & in most cases supplemented w/natural therapies not yucky medicine. :)

rainbow
December 1st, 2007, 11:43 PM
Cindy, my heart goes out to you and Tabitha. :grouphug: Has an ultrasound been done yet? I agree with Chico and would take her to Guelph. Good luck and hang in there. :fingerscr :goodvibes:

krdahmer
December 2nd, 2007, 10:49 AM
Oh poor Tabitha and poor you! :grouphug:

Are these meds not available as liquids? Can you get the vet to write a script for them and see if a regular pharmacist could get them in or turn them into a liquid? If you were to crush them into a fine dust, you could mix them into yogurt and then use a syringe to get her to eat that? (Thats how I do Fagan's... he even licks the syringe on his own after because he likes the yogurt so much.)

And if you want a second opinion, if thats what your gut is telling you to do, you probably should.

:pray: & :fingerscr that it starts to get better for you both! I know how bad it feels when your cat looks at you like you are the great torturer! :rolleyes::grouphug:

sugarcatmom
December 2nd, 2007, 12:48 PM
Cindy, I just read something on another message board about a dog that was going through a similar situation with idiopathic blood in the urine, everything else checking out fine. Turns out that it was due to the corn in the dog's dry food (not sure how or why - but when they switched foods the blood apparently went away). What does Tabitha eat now?

Also, I agree with growler that a homeopathic or holistic vet might be worth a shot.

A couple of good supplements to consider (and you can just sprinkle them in food - no pilling required!!) are Bladder Strength (http://www.vetriscience.com/bladder-strength-cats.php) by Vetri-Science, and Cosequin (http://www.nutramaxlabs.com/products/animal/cosequin/cosequin_cat_FAQ.asp) by Nutramax. Cosequin is usually prescribed for arthritic issues but has been known to improve the lining of the bladder. I know you said her bladder checked out fine, but again, might be worth trying anyway.

My veterinarian mentioned that Cosequin can be used to help maintain the health of my cat's bladder. How does this work?

Some veterinarians also recommend Cosequin to help maintain urinary bladder health. The inner lining of the bladder wall is protected by a layer, which contains some of the same compounds as are found in cartilage. This layer keeps urine and the waste products contained within it from seeping into and affecting the lining. Since the low molecular weight chondroitin sulfate found only in Cosequin is available to more than just cartilage cells, the bladder may use it to help support this protective layer.

Winston
December 2nd, 2007, 01:39 PM
Sugarcatmom! Thanks for replying I was wondering what you thought also...you always have good info! Tabitha was on Orijen for quite a few months until this all started..Now she is on the K/D Hills from the vet...and whatever soft I can get into them...Merricks chicken pot pie seems to be the only one they really eat and it is mostly the liquid they lick up..sometimes eating the actual ingrediants..

I hate having her on the vet food but there isnt anything around for kidney issues...Previous to this for years they were on CD mixed with TD Hills until I was educated abit more about their food!

The funny thing is she eats, drinks, pee's in her box, acts normal ...Except if we put a bed or blanket down...and the issue with the vet seeing 4+ parts of blood in her urine???

I am happy today as she is coming for pets and rubs today so hopefully she has forgotten what a terrible ordeal we had the other day!

This is confusing though? Especially since the bladder x ray showed a perfect bladder?? so where does the blood come from?

Cindy

Winston
December 2nd, 2007, 01:52 PM
I just wanted to add I have done the blood panel..which showed the elevated BUN and CRE levels but vet said prescribed KD food should help.

Urine test showed 4+ parts blood....have gien antibiotics...(3 kinds)
Did cystogram exray and showed perfect bladder..and kidney fine.

pglewis
December 3rd, 2007, 12:00 AM
... It is the most horrible thing I have ever seen a cat do! As soon as any part of the pill hits the inside of her mouth the foam starts and keeps coming!! she drools more like a dog!!

Poor kitty... I had this exact same experience /twice/ this past week trying to give my cat pills. I thought she was dying by the way she was foaming, and then she retched on and off for like 5 minutes before finally settling down. I was so upset I was shaking, so I know how ya felt.

Here's hoping the blood issue is taken care of and the kitty is feeling better soon!

chico2
December 3rd, 2007, 06:41 AM
Winston,I have no advice to offer,only hopes that Tabitha will get better:pray:
It's sooo frustrating,not beeing able to get a true diagnosies:grouphug:to you and Tabitha!

sugarcatmom
December 3rd, 2007, 07:04 AM
I just wanted to add I have done the blood panel..which showed the elevated BUN and CRE levels but vet said prescribed KD food should help.

Urine test showed 4+ parts blood....have gien antibiotics...(3 kinds)
Did cystogram exray and showed perfect bladder..and kidney fine.

You might have mentioned this in another post but I'm too lazy to read through them all: was a 'clean' sample of Tabitha's urine (acquired via cystocentesis) sent out for a Culture & Sensitivity? That's really the only way to know what bacteria might be growing in her, and antibiotics are then given to match. The fact that you've had to put her on 3 different antibiotics makes me think your vet is just trying the shotgun approach.

That also brings me to the possibility of chronic Pyelonephritis (http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/courses_vm546/content_links/DfDx/Renal_Disease/pyelonephritis.htm) (kidney infection). Acute pyelonephritis would show up on an ultrasound as enlarged kidneys, but in a chronic case, the kidneys are small. Pyelonephritis is also one of those things that doesn't always have a lot of specific symptoms and can look like other issues, like CRF or a UTI. Bloody urine is one of the symptoms.

Treatment for pyelonephritis is long-term use of antibiotics, minimum of 4-6 weeks, often longer. Frequent C & S on the urine is required to monitor the status of the bacteria. http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=2185

As for the K/D, I gotta run to work but I'll get back to you on what I think of it (and why) later :yuck:.

growler~GateKeeper
December 4th, 2007, 01:13 AM
Poor kitty... I had this exact same experience /twice/ this past week trying to give my cat pills. I thought she was dying by the way she was foaming, and then she retched on and off for like 5 minutes before finally settling down. I was so upset I was shaking, so I know how ya felt.

Here's hoping the blood issue is taken care of and the kitty is feeling better soon!

What I've found the most effective to pill a cat is: sit the cat facing the cupboards below the counter, pill is ready on the counter, crouch (sqwat) behind cat with your legs on either side so there is no escape route, tip the head back to look up @ you - remember you & the cat are facing same direction, hold the top of the head, fingers on either side of the jaw in the joint spot to pop the jaw open, pill in the other hand between thumb & forefinger quickly pry bottom jaw down & drop or push pill as far back & down as possible, close the mouth, have a bit of wet catfood on the counter dip your finger in it then on the cats mouth ;)

To stop the retching - I SWEAR it works EVERYTIME - place your palm facing down on the cats chest, firmly rub up & down (it's like a calming rub on the back after someone has just been through a coughing fit)

Hope Tabitha feels better very soon :goodvibes: :grouphug:

TeriM
December 5th, 2007, 02:17 AM
I would definately recommend giving a raw food diet a try. My cat Fred had chronic "ideopathic" recurring infections and I eventually put him back onto a raw food diet and all of the infections went away and now it has been three years without any problems. For whatever reason he just could not seem to handle the canned/dry prepared foods but is totally fine on raw. At this time, it seems like nothing much is working for you so I would give that a try.
Good luck.

Winston
January 28th, 2008, 03:49 PM
After a few attempts of all the wet foods I may have one that the 2 cats like. It is the Wellness Beef & Chicken..But i have to add water to it so that it is all liquid and no solids. It is easier to work with since it is a pate type. They seem to lap that one all up...all the others they lick the juice and walk away.

So how much should I give them since they free feed on kibble...2 pieces at a time and then walk away and come back an hour later and so on!

Right now I give them 1 teaspoon day mixed with some water.

They are both small 6 & 8 lbs.

Cindy

chico2
January 28th, 2008, 04:10 PM
Winston,my 3 cats share a 3oz can twice a day,I always feed them the pate type,easy to dilute if need be.
It's also easy for me to crush Rockys pill in it.
They would not touch the chunky stuff.
But of course mine are bigger than yours,at 16,17 and 12 lb's.

Ford Girl
January 28th, 2008, 04:11 PM
For pills, can you fats feed her some treats then slip a pill in with a treat...thats what works for old grumpy Pubert...treat treat treat..pill/treat, treat. I use tempations, he doesn't notice the pill. Just a thought. :shrug:

Funny how Hills KD formula is given right away to help these issues, in the summer when Dazy was sick and xmas day when Pubert was sick - both times the vet said "get them off Orijen, give them Hills K/D formula". Yet the tests showed nothing to back this up??

I would get a second opinion if I was in your situation, this time around I wanted to see the altrasound, x-ray, blood work results....so I could see it with my own eyes...if I still got no where, I would have taken the records else where.

And I agree she doesn't hate Winston, what I was told once was that it hurt them to pee in their liter box but they do it over and over again cuz that's what cats do...they use the litter box, and they start to associate it with pain...so they go elsewhere....some where...any where but the painful litter box...just what the vet told me years ago when my little man was sick...

Winston
January 28th, 2008, 06:47 PM
Actually she is really good. SHe doesnt act like there is anything wrong. She still eats, poops, pees in her box! and plays like normal.....BUT those darn dog beds or blankies she will pee on them...I dont actually put one out unless it is supervised! then she doesnt do it..its only when I take my eyes off her that she will do it.

I plan on taking them both in soon. Her to have her urine checked to see if there is still vlood present and for Bomber just an over all blood panel. He has never been sick in 11 years so he only has ever got his shots before. Thats how we figured out Tabitha had some issues. We did her blood and urine and she had also never been sick so there really was no history for either.

Cindy