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Cat, Meat Allergies, Struvite Crystals, Raw Diet

want4rain
September 3rd, 2007, 05:09 PM
http://maxshouse.com/feline_urological_syndrome_fus.htm

i read through this site, found it really helpful.

Shadow refuses to eat organ meats and eggs. if i mix it in with fish he eats a good portion of it. with his crystals, fish isnt suggested. is that as a main staple? or all together? is there anythign i can do to raise the pH when he eats fish? he likes to eat oranges and leafy green things. what else can i hide in the fish to make his pH higher? it was 7.0 when we tested him before (a week ago??)

can constipation cause struvite crystals? he stopped eating and drinking. i suspect it is because i have been giving them too much calcium, he got stopped up, felt bad, stopped drinking and eating. we took him in and found out he had crystals along with being very constipated. i cut back the calcium, im watching their poo to see if everyone is going and its not too white and chalky. i can add pumpkin to their food without them rejecting it. is that suggested??

anyone use one of those home pH testers?

are the dangers of not correcting this problem immediately worth putting him on a kibble diet? i really feel strongly about this raw-ish diet but not so much its worth doing permanent damage to Shadow or causing him a great deal of pain.


he(or his brother) also ralfs up turkey, corning game hen, beef and pork. we have tried each several times through out though out this raw experience but im unsure why he is 'allergic' to everything but chicken/eggs and aquatic creatures. we have tried them raw, cooked, partially cooked, no go. we still havent gotten a chest freezer so we havent tried rabbit yet. maybe ill go talk to that butcher abotu it.

if i think of anythign else ill post it but i think thats it for now.

THANKS!!!

-ashley

sugarcatmom
September 3rd, 2007, 07:54 PM
http://maxshouse.com/feline_urological_syndrome_fus.htm

i read through this site, found it really helpful.

Shadow refuses to eat organ meats and eggs. if i mix it in with fish he eats a good portion of it. with his crystals, fish isnt suggested. is that as a main staple? or all together? is there anythign i can do to raise the pH when he eats fish? he likes to eat oranges and leafy green things. what else can i hide in the fish to make his pH higher? it was 7.0 when we tested him before (a week ago??)

I think you mean that you want to LOWER the pH, in other words, make his urine more acidic (lower number = higher acidity; higher number = more alkaline; a pH of 7 is neutral).

can constipation cause struvite crystals? he stopped eating and drinking. i suspect it is because i have been giving them too much calcium, he got stopped up, felt bad, stopped drinking and eating. we took him in and found out he had crystals along with being very constipated. i cut back the calcium, im watching their poo to see if everyone is going and its not too white and chalky. i can add pumpkin to their food without them rejecting it. is that suggested??

I would think that the crystals are more likely to have shown up because of not drinking. Higher urine concentration = more crystals. In fact, one of the best ways to deal with crystals is to get more moisture into the cat. Do you add any extra water to his raw diet at all? That might be the thing to try first. Also, I would really suggest another urinalysis before making too many diet changes as you might be putting too much importance on the one urine sample that was taken under less than ideal conditions (ie dehydrated, constipated).

anyone use one of those home pH testers?

Do you mean the dipsticks, paper, or the portable pH meter? I haven't had to use them, but here is a study comparing results of each: http://www.vetclinpathjournal.org/VOL31/VCP3102_51-55.pdf The dipsticks will do in a pinch but if this was something you seriously wanted to monitor, the best results are obtained with the portable meter.

are the dangers of not correcting this problem immediately worth putting him on a kibble diet? i really feel strongly about this raw-ish diet but not so much its worth doing permanent damage to Shadow or causing him a great deal of pain.

DON'T PUT HIM ON DRY FOOD!!!! That would definitely be taking a step backward. Again, I think if you're really worried, he should have another urinalysis done, and ask the vet if she checks for crystals immediately in house or if the sample is sent off to a lab, because that can make a big difference. False positives for urine crystals are common if the sample sits around for even a few hours.

he(or his brother) also ralfs up turkey, corning game hen, beef and pork. we have tried each several times through out though out this raw experience but im unsure why he is 'allergic' to everything but chicken/eggs and aquatic creatures. we have tried them raw, cooked, partially cooked, no go. we still havent gotten a chest freezer so we havent tried rabbit yet. maybe ill go talk to that butcher abotu it.

Do you have a pet store nearby that sells Nature's Variety frozen raw? They have a rabbit formula that you could try out: Nature's Variety (http://www.naturesvariety.com/content.lasso?page=1513&-session=naturesvariety:4492AC82160c32D389nykv2A362 E)

want4rain
September 3rd, 2007, 11:09 PM
I think you mean that you want to LOWER the pH, in other words, make his urine more acidic (lower number = higher acidity; higher number = more alkaline; a pH of 7 is neutral).

duh im a dork. :)


I would think that the crystals are more likely to have shown up because of not drinking. Higher urine concentration = more crystals. In fact, one of the best ways to deal with crystals is to get more moisture into the cat. Do you add any extra water to his raw diet at all? That might be the thing to try first. Also, I would really suggest another urinalysis before making too many diet changes as you might be putting too much importance on the one urine sample that was taken under less than ideal conditions (ie dehydrated, constipated).

so the crystals are always there in some form or fashion? we want to go back and get another urinalysis. im hoping wednesday?? i add a good bit of water to all of their diet. when we started the raw diet the completely stopped drinking water so ive made more of an effort to get it in them. usually when i feed the fish or the organ meats.

Do you mean the dipsticks, paper, or the portable pH meter? I haven't had to use them, but here is a study comparing results of each: http://www.vetclinpathjournal.org/VOL31/VCP3102_51-55.pdf The dipsticks will do in a pinch but if this was something you seriously wanted to monitor, the best results are obtained with the portable meter.

there were several things i read about and was wondering if anyone used them. i believe the dip stick you have to collect some from the litter box?? we have 4 cats and 5 litter boxes... seems like a lot!

DON'T PUT HIM ON DRY FOOD!!!! That would definitely be taking a step backward. Again, I think if you're really worried, he should have another urinalysis done, and ask the vet if she checks for crystals immediately in house or if the sample is sent off to a lab, because that can make a big difference. False positives for urine crystals are common if the sample sits around for even a few hours.

lol there are a million and a half reasons why id like to never have kibble in our house again!! i wasnt sure if there was so much emphasis placed on water consumption/constipation or not.


Do you have a pet store nearby that sells Nature's Variety frozen raw? They have a rabbit formula that you could try out: Nature's Variety (http://www.naturesvariety.com/content.lasso?page=1513&-session=naturesvariety:4492AC82160c32D389nykv2A362 E)

i havent found anyone here who sells that (but that doesnt mean it isnt around here somewhere) but we do have an asian market near by who carry all kinds of weird stuff. just gotta make it up there. :) finding this butcher was a step in the right direction for the 'other' stuff. they may sell rabbit and goat.

thanks sugarcatmom!!! i feel better about this already!!

-ashley

TeriM
September 4th, 2007, 03:03 AM
I agree to stay the course with the raw. My cat Fred had awful issues when I went from raw to Wellness and when I went back to raw all the problems went away again. I do mix a bit of extra water in with his meals as an extra precaution.

Some people also swear by the UTI supplements that you can purchase from a holistic supplier.
http://www.healthypetjournal.com/default.aspx?tabid=20622

want4rain
September 4th, 2007, 08:06 AM
fantastic TeriM, thats also what i was looking for- soimething FOR cats toa cidify their urine. id like to try all i can here before resorting to that. my only concern would be the fish/magn but in all honesty if one cat is peeing less than the rest, we cant tell where as it was pretty obvious before, we just werent paying attention. i wasnt sure if this would be a constant issue. if a handful of mandarin oranges a week will prevent this issue from ever happening again, Shadow will be a happy cat. :D

-ashley