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Demodex/Mange in Mutt... Treatment?

Linkdog
August 26th, 2007, 10:12 PM
Checked for sensitivity to the Ivomec- None. It is expensive and I'm looking into alternatives. Also, aware that it can compromise the immune system... since mange is back for round two i'm looking for OTHER treatment options.

Borax or preferably sodium perborate (less toxic at a higher concentration)- Saturate in water/white vinegar or hydrogen peroxide solution. apply as a dip. It is supposed to suffocate the mites and eggs, some ppl say that adding a tiny bit to the drinking water works "from inside out". Also, I'd be careful to say that it's a dangerous cleaning product... as it has many uses, even a food additive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borax#Food_additive). i'm skeptical, since it is apparently toxic to humans (with repeated use and mostly in reference to infants) and asking for advice. It is apparently a pretty popular treatment, lots of internet buzz, even toting it as a natural cure, but my homeopath vet doesn't know: http://www.earthclinic.com/Pets/dog_mange_cure.html

Vet 1 swears by Ivomec. Other vets (2,3) have suggested mitaban etc but pointed out the downsides. Not going to happen, too toxic.

Taken to a homeopath vet (4) and she suggests some topical solutions.. All of them as far as i can tell are aimed at smothering the mites... but what about the ones inside the body?: Among them Happy Jack's: http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c....t.A/id.6412/.f

PetsBestRx (sulfur): http://www.petsbestrx.com/mange/index.htm#shop

Anyone used these treatments or heard of the borax option? The homeopathic vet admits she's a little unsure of how to treat... A lot of her patients go the ivomec route... She's never heard of borax.

growler~GateKeeper
August 26th, 2007, 10:31 PM
I have a 16 month Rottweiler/Border Collie X. He's had mange before, been treated with Ivomec and it went away.

Now, it's back. Have been treating with Ivomectin for 35 days with mild improvement. I am considering other treatments. Have heard about a borax and white vinegar treatment but am concerned about side effects (kidney failure etc). Does anyone kow about this?

Can anyone help? Had experience with mange? Ivomec is getting expensive and doesn't seem to work. A month later and he still has big scaley patches on his back. People who have used the borax method are raving about it, but i'm concerned for the dog's health.

What exactly are you supposed to do with the borax/white vinegar?? How would kidney failure be a side effect unless feeding it to the dog? Borax is an abbrasive soap & should never be consumed by any animal or person.

from Veterinary Partner:
Current Treatment of Choice -- Ivermectin

Ivermectinis a broad spectrum anti-parasite medication generally used for food animals and horses. In dogs and cats it is licensed for use as a heartworm preventive and as a topical ear mite therapy; the use of this medication to treat demodicosis is not approved by the FDA.

THIS MEDICATION IS NOT SAFE FOR USE IN COLLIES, SHETLAND SHEEPDOGS, AUSTRALIAN SHEPHERDS, OLD ENGLISH SHEEPDOGS, AND SOME WOULD SAY, ANY HERDING BREED.

There is an unfortunate tendency for people hoping to save money to get their hands on large animal formulations of ivermectin and attempt to home treat this condition. The chief reason why this is a bad idea is "ivermectin sensitivity," a phenomenon famous in the collie breeds. It is important to realize that sensitivity to ivermectin may not be predictably limited to “collie breeds” and thus it is often prudent to use a lower test dose before initiating the relatively high doses of ivermectin needed to treat demodicosis. Recently a DNA test has been developed by Washington State University which can determine whether or not an individual has ivermectin sensitivity. (The test uses a cheek swab - for details visit www.vetmed.wsu.edu/vcpl). Not all individuals of collie heritage are sensitive to ivermectin.

Another important reason not to attempt home treatment of this condition with ivermectin is that there is a range of ivermectin doses used in the treatment of demodicosis and it seems that higher doses do clear infection faster than lower doses. This means that if a lower dose has been ineffective, a higher dose may still work. This does not mean that a pet owner should experiment with ivermectin doses on their own as there is some potential for lethal toxicity if this drug is not used appropriately. It does mean, though, that the affected dog needs to be appropriately rechecked at the proper intervals so that the mite numbers can be checked and it can be determined if the dose should be increased.

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=630

I think your best bet is to go back to the Vet & talk about alternative treatments before trying them especially since the puppy is still young.

:fingerscr for good results & keep us updated

Linkdog
August 26th, 2007, 10:50 PM
Checked for sensitivity to the Ivomec- None. It is expensive and I'm looking into alternatives. Also, aware that it can compromise the immune system... since mange is back for round two i'm looking for OTHER treatment options.

Borax or preferably sodium perborate (less toxic at a higher concentration)- Saturate in water/white vinegar or hydrogen peroxide solution. apply as a dip. It is supposed to suffocate the mites and eggs, some ppl say that adding a tiny bit to the drinking water works "from inside out". Also, I'd be careful to say that it's a dangerous cleaning product... as it has many uses, even a food additive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borax#Food_additive). i'm skeptical, since it is apparently toxic to humans (with repeated use and mostly in reference to infants) and asking for advice. It is apparently a pretty popular treatment, lots of internet buzz, even toting it as a natural cure, but my homeopath vet doesn't know: http://www.earthclinic.com/Pets/dog_mange_cure.html

Vet 1 swears by Ivomec. Other vets (2,3) have suggested mitaban etc but pointed out the downsides. Not going to happen, too toxic.

Taken to a homeopath vet (4) and she suggests some topical solutions.. All of them as far as i can tell are aimed at smothering the mites... but what about the ones inside the body?: Among them Happy Jack's: http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.080402/it.A/id.6412/.f

PetsBestRx (sulfur): http://www.petsbestrx.com/mange/index.htm#shop

Anyone used these treatments or heard of the borax option? The homeopathic vet admits she's a little unsure of how to treat... A lot of her patients go the ivomec route... She's never heard of borax.

BEtter??

punkyamberlea
August 26th, 2007, 11:01 PM
You may want to try using revolution that helps treat some types. Also you can have your vet do something called a MitaBan dip. Amber

growler~GateKeeper
August 26th, 2007, 11:22 PM
IMO the only remedy I would even remotely think to try from the 1st link would be the Brewer's Yeast, all the others include potentially toxic household cleaning products.

As for the Borax working from the "inside out" again toxic chemical cleaner - and there is no info I've ever seen that suggests mites are inside the dog - they naturally & normally live in the hair folicles not inside the body. There is always the possiblity your dog has underlying issues such as worms or good old fleas that could bring on the Demodex outbreak - has all this been ruled out?

As for Borax as a food additive very very bad http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/fssa/invenq/inform/20040714e.shtml

I would start with mild medicated bath by Allergroom (available @ your vets) - there is one for Sebborhea (called Sebolux) which I used on my :rip: :dog: that may help with the demodex & it's non-toxic, try the brewer's yeast & feed high quality all natural food (if not already) there are some great suggestion in the food forum.

from Veterinary Partner:
Interceptor® may be used in any patient safely; the only downside is expense.

I hope someone here can offer you direct advice on something that has worked for them.

hazelrunpack
August 26th, 2007, 11:27 PM
Our Macie came to us with a case of Demodectic mange...though not nearly as severe as what you describe in your other thread. We had good luck using Goodwinol ointment as a topical treatment. It contains Rotenone, Benzocaine, Quaternium-15, Tartaric Acid, and Magnesium Sulfate in a lanolin base. To apply, you take a small amount and rub it into the lesion. If used as directed, it's supposed to be relatively nontoxic and it worked like a charm for us! :thumbs up

growler~GateKeeper
August 26th, 2007, 11:28 PM
BTW don't trust everything you read from Wikipedia alot is added or edited by readers and not neccessarily checked for accuracy :)

Linkdog
August 26th, 2007, 11:32 PM
Brewers yeast- tried for one year. still using.. still mangey...
natural food: B.A.R.F., no chicken or pork. venison, duck and organs only. only brown rice or potatoes, plenty of veg, omega 3+6 supplements given to weight specifications. eggs/cottage cheese/plain yogurt occasionally. No wheat/corn or soy ever.
borax: great, i see that from wikipedia as well, but not all of the world agrees... (www.bfr.bund.de/cm/245/addition_of_boric_acid_or_borax_to_food_supplement s.pdf). . there is debate on the website given as to whether it is toxic when given orally, i am in agreement that it might be and am unwilling to try it . i am more interested in the DIP application and someone who has used it or heard of a vet's opinion on the matter or side affects as it relates to use in animals (this dip ensures the concentration is less that what is considered toxic to humans)
Shampoos: Sebolux, once weekly/ten-ish as recommended by vet 2, and endorsed by the others.

growler, do you have personal experience with mange? and is it outside of ivo treatment? i'm not new to this... it has been a persistent problem and have tried many things, ruling out others along the way... met with little success. i'm looking for someone who's had a (most likely) topical product produce results.
also, it is likely that a govts ban on ANYTHING might be politicized in the same way that wikipedia encourages the acceptance of ... ahem, truthiness among the casual reader.

growler~GateKeeper
August 27th, 2007, 12:11 AM
No I've thankfully had no experience with mange at all, However Cally did have mild Sebborreah (also a skin condition that causes itchies & hair loss) & Flea Allergy Dermatitis (very allergic to fleas would scratch & bite like crazy & end up with bald patches). This was treated for the most part by his previous owners with medication & mild medicated baths not dips though. I got him as a 6 yr old rescue & kept up with the mild medicated baths when neccessary & he was on Program year round for the fleas.

I was a bit alarmed by your first post mentioning borax & am very glad you will not be feeding it to your dog. :thumbs up The other thing was you didn't initially mention any treatments that had been tried or what you were feeding, so I could only respond to what was originally posted.

I will not get into a debate over politics/Wikipedia/Canadian Gov't/toxicity etc...everyone has their own opinions & are welcome to them & we all don't have to agree or disagree. :) The last thing I will say on the subject (because I'm not trying to argue with you) of borax is: it is a bleach cleaner I wouldn't use it in my food or my pets.

Truly hope you find a workable solution for your dog. :)

hazelrunpack
August 27th, 2007, 10:06 AM
What topicals have you tried, Linkdog? As I said, we had great results from Goodwinol.

What food does your dog eat? Have you tried a dietary change to boost the immune system as well?

want4rain
August 27th, 2007, 10:49 AM
Hey Hazel, s/he posted in the midst of a bunch of other things her pooches diet.

sorry i dont have any suggestions or experience. :)

-ashley

Brewers yeast- tried for one year. still using.. still mangey...
natural food: B.A.R.F., no chicken or pork. venison, duck and organs only. only brown rice or potatoes, plenty of veg, omega 3+6 supplements given to weight specifications. eggs/cottage cheese/plain yogurt occasionally. No wheat/corn or soy ever.

jessi76
August 27th, 2007, 11:24 AM
We had good luck using Goodwinol ointment as a topical treatment. It contains Rotenone, Benzocaine, Quaternium-15, Tartaric Acid, and Magnesium Sulfate in a lanolin base. To apply, you take a small amount and rub it into the lesion. If used as directed, it's supposed to be relatively nontoxic and it worked like a charm for us! :thumbs up

ditto! Goodwinol ointment worked great on my dog when he had demodex as a pup.