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spayed while pregnant...

ravyn142003
August 22nd, 2007, 10:11 AM
I know that the world is over pupulated but if my Piggie is pregnant, I couldn't get her spayed til after she had the pups. I have a large family and I already know that my grandbabies' will love them as much as I would.

For any one to suggest terminating is so sad. Our loved pets are living just like we are and I wouldn't want to terminate a pregnancy of my own so I just couldn't do that. But, for sure afterwards she will be spayed!

I just had to post this because I'm new on here and most of what I have read so far is about pregnancy and 99% of responses are to terminate pregnancys' in progress. Makes me so sad.

I love my Poohbear, Piggie and Dingo and if Piggie is pregnant, I don't know how many pups she will have, she's a pomeranian and this would be her first and (only) litter but all the pups are already spoken for. I will keep them if I have to and love them just as much as I do the rest of them.

I love animals, not saying that the rest of you don't but my goodness, don't terminate the little ones that are already growing. They do feel pain inside their momma's just as human babies' feel pain inside human momma's. That's how I feel about that anyways.

God bless,
ravyn142003:cry:

sugarcatmom
August 22nd, 2007, 10:26 AM
I just had to post this because I'm new on here and most of what I have read so far is about pregnancy and 99% of responses are to terminate pregnancys' in progress. Makes me so sad.


You know what makes me sad? Knowing that millions of perfectly healthy, already living, loving, animals are killed every year in shelters because there aren't enough homes for them. I dare you to walk into your local humane society and not feel the overwhelming sadness there. It's great that you have homes for the pups already, but those could have been homes for dogs already born, waiting in cages for someone to rescue them and give them the love they crave.

Jim Hall
August 22nd, 2007, 10:33 AM
we all know there are a lot of pups in shreters but I have to agree somewhat with Rayvn If she has good homes waiting for them i say its a good thing .

I could never terminate a pregnancy and obviously rayvn feels the same way

It is not rayvn's fault there are so many doge in shelters. It is the fault of the idots who put them there.

Love4himies
August 22nd, 2007, 10:37 AM
I would never allow my kitties to get pregnant in the first place but I, like you, could never abort kittens should a pregnant cat came into my life, unless the mother cats health was in danger.

I am currently fostering a momma cat from the local humane society and this is my first experience with a nursing cat. I have to be honest with you, that although she is an excellent mother, I feel so bad for her because she is so exhausted from constant nursing and grooming. I don't think she is happy and really believe she would rather be spayed, so she can be carefree and playing, and not have to endure this work. She just looks so tired and I am so glad my female cats have not had to go through this. I don't think they have the same maternal feelings of wanting children like humans.

If she is not pregnant, please get her spayed immediately, if she is, I am glad you are getting her spayed after this litter.

sugarcatmom
August 22nd, 2007, 10:38 AM
It is not rayvn's fault there are so many doge in shelters. It is the fault of the idots who put them there.

It's the idiots that don't get their animals spayed and neutered and then let them breed that are responsible for the overwhelming shelter population. Responsible pet ownership means making sure you don't add to the problem.

NoahGrey
August 22nd, 2007, 10:51 AM
You know what makes me sad? Knowing that millions of perfectly healthy, already living, loving, animals are killed every year in shelters because there aren't enough homes for them. I dare you to walk into your local humane society and not feel the overwhelming sadness there. It's great that you have homes for the pups already, but those could have been homes for dogs already born, waiting in cages for someone to rescue them and give them the love they crave.

I could not have said it better myself....good job:thumbs up

ACO22

NoahGrey
August 22nd, 2007, 10:52 AM
It's the idiots that don't get their animals spayed and neutered and then let them breed that are responsible for the overwhelming shelter population. Responsible pet ownership means making sure you don't add to the problem.


Again, Could not have said it better myself. Sad thing is I bet, some of her puppies will end up at a shelter.

ACO22

want4rain
August 22nd, 2007, 10:58 AM
spaying while pregnant should be a non issue. there are so many organizations that are willing to practically throw money at you to get your animal fixed before they even have the opportunity to get pregnant. we waited to get Mister fixed because of financial issues but we are fanatical about keeping him contained and under watch at ALL TIMES and i would have all but whored myself if we had (for some outlandish reason) an unfixed female within a reasonable distance to get it done sooner!!

get both of your dogs fixed. you are not doing yourself, your dogs nor the world ANY favor by allowing something like this to happen. whatever your ethics are on abortion, whatever decision you make concerning these puppies NOW- feel shame for the situation YOU are creating with YOUR dogs, the euthanization of all of the puppies your litter fills the place of in other peoples homes and for the poor souls who have to euthanize any animal.

you have no right to tell people here, who encourage you to abort, to feel shame in their decision. most of them have the ugly job of taking another creatures life with their own hands. people like you create those jobs.

-ashley

LavenderRott
August 22nd, 2007, 11:05 AM
you have no right to tell people here, who encourage you to abort, to feel shame in their decision.
-ashley

And we have no right to call her an idiot.

There are many, many people here who take issue with the matter of abortion - be it human or animal. And while that may not be your opinion (and NO - I don't necessarily mean you in particular) we should not ridule those who think differently.

Now - how about talking to the OP about the dangers of a small breed dog having puppies. Maybe, that will convince her to have her dog spayed - even if it is after it has this litter.

want4rain
August 22nd, 2007, 11:19 AM
i just wanted to say i never called her an idiot. i told her she should, regardless of her decisions concerning abortion (why would people find abortion for humans not acceptable but for animals it IS acceptable is pretty shady.) she should feel ashamed of herself for allowing this situation come to fruit.

i could not terminate a pregnancy. i make sure an unwanted pregnancy doesnt happen by caring for my pet. if, for some reason, an animal became pregnant due to my neglect, i would feel a very deep shame.

-ashley

Frenchy
August 22nd, 2007, 11:35 AM
talking to the OP about the dangers of a small breed dog having puppies. Maybe, that will convince her to have her dog spayed - even if it is after it has this litter.

That's what I wanted to say , to the OP , you say you don't want to abort the puppies because they are living ... but what about YOUR dog ? What if she dies while delivering ? Do you have a vet that can come to your place on call at 3:00 am ???

Frenchy
August 22nd, 2007, 11:35 AM
Responsible pet ownership means making sure you don't add to the problem.

Very well said.

Jim Hall
August 22nd, 2007, 11:44 AM
I love my Poohbear, Piggie and Dingo and if Piggie is pregnant, I don't know how many pups she will have, she's a pomeranian and this would be her first and (only) litter but all the pups are already spoken for. I will keep them if I have to and love them just as much as I do the rest of them.

This is her quote

Jim Hall
August 22nd, 2007, 11:48 AM
So whats the story here We should have no puppies made till all the dogs in the world have an owner

how about show dogs should they stop breeding and showing dogs or is it just normal everday people who should stop.

Let's go all the way here hey breeders stop breeding show dogs and cats
there are too many dogs in shelters

jessi76
August 22nd, 2007, 11:53 AM
But, for sure afterwards she will be spayed!

isn't that always the case... hindsight is always 20/20 huh? why on earth do you have 2 intact dogs to begin with? FOR SURE they should of been spayed/neutered before you got to this point.... unless this was a planned litter.

I will keep them if I have to and love them just as much as I do the rest of them.

and if you do keep them (or some) will you have them spayed/neutered? or will the cycle continue?

since you're new here, I'll just point this out, this board is VERY pro spay/neuter. to many of us here, "life" should be a quality LIFE... many unwanted animals who are given "life" end up spending LIFE in poor conditions - whether it be with a family who ignores it, in a shelter cage, or awaiting lethal injection. we all have different views on "life" - which is fine - but most of us here agree on the spay/neuter issue.

Frenchy
August 22nd, 2007, 11:53 AM
how about show dogs should they stop breeding and showing dogs or is it just normal everday people who should stop.



What do you think ? :confused: take a chill pill Jim.

Oh and by the way , what are you doing on Friday ? Care to come and spend the day at the shelter near my place ? Because that's when they euthanised the dogs , when their time is up. I heard they don't have money for a vet so they still do it in a gaz chamber , it's quite a site , because the dog suffocates and it is a slow death , from what I've heard.

Jim Hall
August 22nd, 2007, 12:10 PM
I work for a resue agency and i also have worked shelters and its horrible
so why dont breeders stop ?

Or are only people who need to have vicarious lives through thier pampered liitle pure breeds can breed

I suspect most of those wouldnt touch a mutt with a ten foot pole

i have never evr gotten a pet from a breeder all of my wonderfull critters have come from shelters

LavenderRott
August 22nd, 2007, 12:32 PM
I work for a resue agency and i also have worked shelters and its horrible
so why dont breeders stop ?

Or are only people who need to have vicarious lives through thier pampered liitle pure breeds can breed

I suspect most of those wouldnt touch a mutt with a ten foot pole

i have never evr gotten a pet from a breeder all of my wonderfull critters have come from shelters

ROFLMAO!!

I know several ETHICAL breeders and not one of them has a "pampered" pet unless it is ill. Every one of them is involved in breed rescue in some way, shape or form and they do NOT turn away mixes. And their dogs WORK.

There is a huge difference between ETHICAL breeders, backyard breeders, commercial breeders and show breeders. An ETHICAL breeder is breeding for the WHOLE dog - looks, temperment and workability - and losing money all the way.

dtbmnec
August 22nd, 2007, 12:33 PM
Uhh guys...

From this post and the other...

The OP was TOLD by the VET not to get her spayed until 6 months. She then went into heat, and it seems that she MAY be pregnant.

She also said in her original post that if she IS pregnant then she will SPAY after this litter.

So you tell me who's in the wrong? I TOO was told to get my boys done at 6 months and no sooner by my OWN vet. I can see how an "unplanned" pregnancy could have happened had Leo or Pawz been a girl.

There are many many people out there that just do what their vet tells them to. I know I did. I'm sure MANY of you guys did too. Maybe she, like the thousands of others in the world, have come here for help while trying to understand things about their dog. Trying to find other sources of information about dogs and cats rather than just listening to their vet.

The vet should have known that there was an intact male in the house and didn't think to get him neutered either, or to mention it. The vet probably should have said something like "well we don't spay/neuter animals till 6 months, but since you have an intact male maybe we can do his a little earlier. He won't be as stressed because its a much easier surgery? How does that sound?" S/He should also be taken into consideration.

I think that a lot of us have lost sight that there are people who don't actually KNOW the first thing about owning dogs and cats. Then they come here or elsewhere for help. I just don't think its fair to jump down someone's throat because of a decision that they hadn't realized they'd made. It comes with the territory of educating people. She's new to the boards and we have NO idea what kind of a background she comes from. We shouldn't be jumping down her throat about something she may not have known about.

Yes there are tons of dogs and cats being put to sleep and not finding forever homes and yeah it sucks. Yeah she's adding to the "problem" but then at least she's OWNING up to it. For that she does get my respect.

So. To the OP.

Get her checked out by the vet. Keep her "boy toy" away from her. Hell go to the vet and neuter him now, its not like he's going to be carrying anything (and if he is, well there's some serious explaining to do).

If she is pregnant, make sure to read up on it. Make sure you have all the emergency numbers and things that are needed for a pregnant dog ready. Keep both eyes on her and hope all goes well.

If she is not pregnant, get her spayed as soon as possible. The vet (as has been said in the other thread) may charge more during heat. If you wait until after the heat, keep "boy toy" away from her. Take them for walks one at a time or whatever. If you decide to do it during heat, then that's fine. Go for it.

NoahGrey
August 22nd, 2007, 12:36 PM
i have never evr gotten a pet from a breeder all of my wonderfull critters have come from shelters


Really? The shelter that you got them from, does not spay or neuter before they are adopted out. Most shelter's are pro spay and neuter and all of their animals are so, before they leave.

Also, I don't support breeders, for the simple fact that they are adding to the pet overpopulation, same goes for show dogs/cats.

ACO22

Jim Hall
August 22nd, 2007, 12:47 PM
all my pets were spayed/neutered

And good for you for not supporting breeders

Jim Hall
August 22nd, 2007, 12:49 PM
There is a huge difference between ETHICAL breeders, backyard breeders, commercial breeders and show breeders. An ETHICAL breeder is breeding for the WHOLE dog - looks, temperment and workability - and losing money all the way.
__________________
so why do it at all if there are so many animals in shelters?

luckypenny
August 22nd, 2007, 12:54 PM
The question I have is who actually benefits from this dog have a litter of puppies from an inexperienced owner? I can see no pros to this situation :sad: .

Jim Hall
August 22nd, 2007, 12:59 PM
well the puppies who she says she had homes for benifit the pepole who
get to won a beatifull dog will benifit
the vets will benefit

Love4himies
August 22nd, 2007, 01:02 PM
I want you to know up front that I am PRO SPAY/NEUTER, I would never allow my pets to breed, and I cry when I go into the local shelter, but am wondering what would happen if everybody got their animals altered prior to having litters except the reputable breeders, would the cost of a purebred be so high that only a few elite families would be able to enjoy pets? What about those wonderful mutts? They wouldn't exist anymore. Not everybody wants a purebred and nor can everybody afford a purebred. That does not mean they shouldn't have pets as long as they can afford the health care/food etc.

My cat came from what you call a BYB, and she is extremly healthy except for the damage done to her kidneys when she got into some toxins, and the family that bred her mother was very loving and found good homes for all her kittens (two interviews).

I also have to agree with Jim, it is the owners of the animals dropping them off at the shelter, or letting their pet free to wonder and not actively looking for them who is at fault for the overcrowded shelters. Even a reputable breeder's animal can end up at a shelter, just because you sign a contract that you will return the animal back to the breeder should you no longer be able to care for that animal doesn't mean people will honor that.

luckypenny
August 22nd, 2007, 01:03 PM
well the puppies who she says she had homes for benifit the pepole who
get to won a beatifull dog will benifit
the vets will benefit

And the dog itself? Does she benefit? What if something goes wrong? You think all vets enjoy seeing dogs suffer?

clm
August 22nd, 2007, 01:10 PM
I work for a resue agency and i also have worked shelters and its horrible
so why dont breeders stop ?

Sorry Jim, but that's just (for the lack of a better word) stupid. Shelters aren't full of purebreds, their full of poor examples of pure breds from puppy mills, designer breeds from puppy mills and puppies born from unplanned matings from people who don't get their pets spayed and neutered and from fools who don't think about or care about the animal they got in the first place so they dump it in the shelter when it's no longer convenient to keep it. If puppy mills were outlawed and everyone except responsible breeders had to have their pets spayed or neutered, you wouldn't have the number of animals you have in shelters now.

Or are only people who need to have vicarious lives through thier pampered liitle pure breeds can breed
Responsible breeders breed for the love of their breed. I have owned nothing but purebred dogs purchased as puppies from repsonsible breeders. Why, because I carefully thought out what breed would suit us and what breed we wanted. If we choose to have a purebred dog and not a mutt, that doesn't mean I live my life vicariously through my pampered little pure breed, nor does it mean I should breed my pampered little purebreed either, unlike the OP.

I suspect most of those wouldnt touch a mutt with a ten foot pole
Actually all 3 breeders that I've gotten my dogs from over the years had a shelter mutt as well. :shrug: Just because they're breeders doesn't make them heartless, and most responsible breeders are involved in rescue groups for their chosen breed as well. I have never considered a mutt, but like I said it's because we love Keeshonds and that's the only breed for us. We didn't have a breed preference for our cats, hence why 2 are from rescue groups and 2 are adopted strays.

i have never evr gotten a pet from a breeder all of my wonderfull critters have come from shelters


dtbmnec

You had said that the OP was TOLD by the VET not to get her spayed until 6 months. She then went into heat, and it seems that she MAY be pregnant.

She also said in her original post that if she IS pregnant then she will SPAY after this litter.

That wasn't this OP I don't think, regardless, if you have intact males and females you're responsible for making sure a pregnancy doesn't occur. I can't tell you how many times I've heard that someone is going to have their dogs spayed after this litter and the excuse that the vet told them to wait until the animal is 6 months old doesn't wash with me :shrug: .

Cindy

Jim Hall
August 22nd, 2007, 01:27 PM
Too make myself clear on this.

Buy a mutt from a shelter dont buy a dog from a breeder of any sort

If you buy from a breeder then you have no reason to bitch that someone else wants her dog to have puppies especially if they have good homes waiting ans they are willing to have good vet care


No one NO ONE needs a purebreed dog and every purebreed dog that gets made means one more mutt in a shelter that wont go to a home

I am sorry but i regard people who buy purebreeds as elitist.

Jim Hall
August 22nd, 2007, 01:29 PM
And the dog itself? Does she benefit? What if something goes wrong? You think all vets enjoy seeing dogs suffer?

of course vets dont but a good vet will certainly be ale to deliver a litter

The dog will suffer how?

luckypenny
August 22nd, 2007, 01:39 PM
of course vets dont but a good vet will certainly be ale to deliver a litter

The dog will suffer how?

I guess there's no need to ask but I will anyways; do you have any idea what it's like to give birth? The complications and risks involved? How can this dog benefit from having a litter of puppies? What will she get out of it? Her owner is making the choice for her. And what if the puppies have inherited genetic abnormalities, whether it be physical or behavioral? Will the new owners benefit from this as well? No, chances are their hearts and wallets will be broken. Some may very well indeed seek the appropriate care, but for those who don't? Where will these puppies end up, I wonder, if things go wrong? At a shelter perhaps? To have other unsuspecting new families bring them home? Or worse, be euthanized? It's just an awful cycle that has to stop somewhere and I believe it begins with the original inexperienced owner/breeder who chooses to breed in the first place.

clm
August 22nd, 2007, 01:59 PM
Too make myself clear on this.

Buy a mutt from a shelter dont buy a dog from a breeder of any sort

If you buy from a breeder then you have no reason to bitch that someone else wants her dog to have puppies especially if they have good homes waiting ans they are willing to have good vet care


No one NO ONE needs a purebreed dog and every purebreed dog that gets made means one more mutt in a shelter that wont go to a home

I am sorry but i regard people who buy purebreeds as elitist.

Oh, you made yourself perfectly clear. It's okay for this OP to let this dog have her litter, although if she can't provide papers, legally she can't call them purebred and that's okay by you because now they're mutts :laughing: Oh, and they'll likely end up in a shelter some day anyway. Or better still, she'll want to keep one of the puppies more and send mom off to the shelter.
Sorry Jim, I'll refrain from taking the bait on your posts anymore, just couldn't resist this one last time. Obviously I don't agree with you, or could you notice.

Cindy

hazelrunpack
August 22nd, 2007, 02:32 PM
I am sorry but i regard people who buy purebreeds as elitist.

Thanks, Jim. :shrug: I've never been considered an elitist before! :p

Jim Hall
August 22nd, 2007, 02:43 PM
Thanks, Jim. I've never been considered an elitist before!


so why dint you get a dog from a shelter ? instead of a pure bred?

hazelrunpack
August 22nd, 2007, 02:52 PM
Thanks, Jim. I've never been considered an elitist before!


so why dint you get a dog from a shelter ? instead of a pure bred?

Because hubby hunts. People buy working dogs all the time--some breeds are just better for some functions than others. :shrug: Does that make us elitist? I don't know--we have English setters here that don't hunt. In fact, that's why Grace is here now.

I think 'elitist' is a mind set and can apply to people who set up their own standards and judge others by them. Perhaps that makes you an elitist, too, Jim.

Is that wrong or bad? Not necessarily. If you're passionate about your standards, it can be a very good thing. Not everyone might agree with you, but you stand on your principles. And I applaud you for standing up for your principles.

You just can't expect everyone to see things exactly the same as you do. :shrug:

mummummum
August 22nd, 2007, 02:55 PM
Well said sugarcatmom and others...

Ravyn I couldn't agree with you less. Taking on the guardianship of a dog comes with some very serious responsibilities. One of them is gaining knowledge about responsible ownership and healthcare. Keeping an intact male and female and allowing dogs to mate is a failure to maintain responsibility. Sadly, it's always the female who suffers the heaviest consequence of this carelessness and irresponsibility.

In my eyes, the most ethical, loving and responsible thing to do here is to not further endanger your dog's life by forcing her to give birth. Spaying her immediately and terminating a suspected pregnancy also means that your inexperience and lack of knowledge about animal birthing will not result in serious health complications or the death of your cherished dog.

dtbmnec
August 22nd, 2007, 03:44 PM
dtbmnec

You had said that the OP was TOLD by the VET not to get her spayed until 6 months. She then went into heat, and it seems that she MAY be pregnant.

She also said in her original post that if she IS pregnant then she will SPAY after this litter.

That wasn't this OP I don't think, regardless, if you have intact males and females you're responsible for making sure a pregnancy doesn't occur. I can't tell you how many times I've heard that someone is going to have their dogs spayed after this litter and the excuse that the vet told them to wait until the animal is 6 months old doesn't wash with me :shrug: .

Cindy

Ooops that was my bad...I'd seen the other thread about a dog going into heat and thought it was the same person....woops....don't mind me I'm a :loser: right now LOL

*goes back to her corner and shuts up*

Megan

LavenderRott
August 22nd, 2007, 04:50 PM
Too make myself clear on this.

Buy a mutt from a shelter dont buy a dog from a breeder of any sort

If you buy from a breeder then you have no reason to bitch that someone else wants her dog to have puppies especially if they have good homes waiting ans they are willing to have good vet care


No one NO ONE needs a purebreed dog and every purebreed dog that gets made means one more mutt in a shelter that wont go to a home

I am sorry but i regard people who buy purebreeds as elitist.

With the exception of the two dogs I have now - which were given to me free and clear - EVERY SINGLE dog I have had in the past 20 years has been from a shelter.

Sorry, but elitist I may be. I admire a well bred workable working dog. And I think that anyone who thinks that ethical breeders shouldn't breed is arrogant.

I guess that means that everyone has their own opinion.

SableCollie
August 22nd, 2007, 05:40 PM
These threads make me sad. :sad: I've just had to go through a rash of dog euthanasias. One of them a gorgeous, purebred. (UKC registered, "purple ribbon bred", multiple show and field champions in 7 generation pedigree....)

At this point in time, every dog/cat born means a dog/cat dies. TOO many animals, not enough homes. I think everyone should have to go to their local animal shelters and watch these animals die, why should I be the lucky one?

I have to take a break from this board, for the time being. :sad:

Carnac
August 22nd, 2007, 07:17 PM
This thread has run its course and will now be closed.