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I was this close....

Bill & Bob
May 16th, 2004, 08:51 PM
to wanting two dogs dead today. Believe me it takes a lot to make me say that. Myself and three friends were standing in front of one of our friends houses chatting. Two non dog owners, and my friend who owns Bob's female buddy we walk with every morning and myself.

Two doors down from her there are these two Shepherds.

These damn things go nuts every time Bob and I walk by, which is daily. If they are in the house they are literally jumping AT the window of their living room wanting to get out and kill us. I can't believe they haven't broken the window and cut themselves in two yet. I'll hope for that tomorrow. If they are in the backyard, they are at the fence midhouse trying to get over to get us. If they are in the front yard, they are leaning over the fence to get us. That's the worst place I've seen them until today.

So, we're standing there and these things are on the front sidewalk of their house. OUT OF THE YARD! They see us and come running at us. I have never seen a dog with it's lips so pulled back as these two. They stand about 10 feet away barking and growling at us. We start yelling at them to GO HOME! They don't.

They start slowly moving forward, still teeth bared and growling. My friends dog, who is off leash, but smaller, goes for one and chases it back until my friend calls her dog back. Thankfully she came right back. The one that was chased a little ways away comes right back to where the other one is, which is really close now and only a few feet away from Bob.

They both were taking a good look at Bob at this point. Big Bob didn't growl or do anything which I was surprised by, but just stood there looking quite stoic, but from the feel of his leash, coiled like a very tight spring. He wasn't pulling, but his body looked hard as a rock.

Finally we all just started swearing as loud as we could for the owner to come out. Eventually she does, and sorry, we had some very disparaging things to say to her. She goes on about it being an accident and they got out of the yard, and were only out for 30 seconds. My friend who lives in this house is sick of these dogs and just starts blasting her for everything those dogs have done. The woman starts blubbering about how it was just an accident and now we're verbally abusing her. Had she not heard us, it was IMMINENT that someone was going to be attacked, or one of our dogs!

I couldn't believe it. When something like that happens, I expect the person to stand there like a damage sponge, be sorry, and soak up whatever they are getting. She had no arguement whatsoever to say. No defense.

Accidents do happen. I agree. But these dogs are a different story. You have no choice but to reduce the margin for error to as low a point as possible when you know you have dogs like this. A rickety old wooden picket fence is not appropriate.

Anyway, we all got the address and called Animal Control as soon as we got home. Animal control said they would send someone over tomorrow to check the fence for appropriateness. Thanks. That'll help.

Now, my friend gets to live at this address with a demon of a pitbull downstairs that Bob and I have to keep a very close eye out for when we go up the stairs to her door. These two viscious shepherds two doors down, now with an owner that hates her.

I am getting so pissed about this crap. My friend lives 4 blocks away from me. If I leave my house and go left, I get a big Golden Retriever that sits on the front step and starts growling at us from across the street, who has also come across the street to challenge us in the past. If I go straight I've got another Shepherd that I have personally witnessed kill a cat, who also barks like hell on earth at us when we go by from behind his crummy wooden fence. If I turn right, three doors down, I get to walk by the massive American Bulldog that sits on the balcony barking all day at everyone who walks by, specifically every time Bob and I walk by, or any other dog. All within a one block radius. If I manage to get out of my immediate neighbourhood to pick my friend up, I get to walk by her problem neighbours and their problem dogs.

I swear, if I had a gun, those two dogs would be dead today. Believe me. I love dogs very much and don't say that easily.

Sorry for the long story. Needed to write this out and vent it a bit. I am so glad I don't own a gun. I'd probably be in jail by now.

May 16th, 2004, 09:37 PM
my sympathy to you and bob, i know the anger you are feeling charlie is always meeting these type of freaks, no i dont own a shot gun, sorry... here is what i dov with the little freaks-
-first i always wear boots walking ,mine have steel caps but normal should do the trick.
-when i see them coming i grab anything, i esp like good handful of gravel or a nice rock and throw it at the little buggers if they try to attack, a big stick is always handy(i used to carry a squash racqet, good for hitting balls and good for nasty dogs). i also swear at the dog and say no sternly, i find many people swear at dogs when they are in trouble and i have had dogs respond to this and back off.
-and sadly i often have to change our routine if there is a freak that no one cares about and we have to walk another way or sneak by, it really gets me going.
bloody bullies, poor bob, tell him they are freaks and to feel sorry for them as they dont have very nice mums and dads. :mad: :eek: :(

May 16th, 2004, 10:14 PM
You are absolutely right to vent. Mistakes can happen with fences and doors (it's happened with my dogs before, who happen to be way friendly!) However, if you know your dogs are vicious you are right you must be way more cautious and ensure this does not happen. Hopefully animal control will ensure this woman maintains an adequate enclosure for these dogs.

Bill & Bob
May 16th, 2004, 10:14 PM
I still shake with adrenaline just thinking about it, and that was more than three hours ago! Just for anyone who's wondering, I know that nobody on here wants to see someone saying they want to harm a dog. I also know I didn't say harm, I said much worse. This was different than any situation I've dealt with before, and I still don't feel bad about what I said. These things eyes and teeth were pointed at the group of humans for just as much time as at the dogs.
I'm on the same page with you Melanie. We were coming back from playing tennis and I was reaching for my friends racket when they got too close to Bob and I had to hold him tight.
I also agree about the swearing thing. Another friend of mine mentioned that to me too. Seems every dog who's like that has been sworn at a few times and they recognise those words. For a Sunday afternoon near a busy street, I think we all lit up the neighbourhood with a symphony of some of the worst language I've ever heard at a volume Ted Nugent would have been proud of. That's when the woman inside came out.

Ya know. I really don't know what to say about how I actually feel about the dogs. I'm angry about what happened, but I can understand where they learned these behaviours from and it wasn't their conscious choice to learn them. I always see them in one yard or the other, or sometimes in the house. Just being allowed to stand up against a 5 foot tall pane of glass and spill hate at us. That will break someday. I've even seen them in the open truck bed parked in front of the house. Not tied down. I wouldn't expect them to be tied down, because I wouldn't expect them to be kept in the open back of a truck parked near a busy street in damn midtown Vancouver while in front of their own house!!!

As far as changing behaviours, I agree. Sometimes you have to concede. I do that at times. Other times I just feel like screw it. Why should I change where I go because someone else is stupid enough to let their dog run rampant. But then I'm putting Bob's health in jepordy, not just my own. Either way, I'll take the alley to my friends place. That way we get to walk behind the sausage making place that Bob likes to smell so much. Always look on the bright side of life right?

May 16th, 2004, 10:48 PM
there is never any bad dogs, just bad crappy owners :mad: . thats why i tell charlie to feel sorry for them.
remember NEVER put yourself between bob and an attacking dog, help bob by all means but dont ever get between them. many people have been seriously hurt this way.
i dont advocate violence towards any dogs but if they want to pick on us, then that is their problem. i tell you that charlie and i have been in some real doozies in the past 8 years. we have been up against some pretty nasty little buggers, i feel sorry for little dog owners, the blind with guide dogs (that would be just terrible) and the elderly, it must be horrifying for them when it happens, at least i am still reasonably fit and us gals put up a bloody good fight and so far havent had any mjr injuries, some of the worst fights (noisiest) we have had have been with other friends dogs doing that whole domination thing.
if it is one dog, bob should be able to handle them with a little help from you, if it is two or more and they attack just get stuck in, your objective is to get them off him using any means necessary. periodically i see large packs of wild dogs running in the bush and streets at night, these ones absoluty terrify me and my worst fear is running into them, i once saw a pack of really big GSD, greyhound and rotty mixes, i am so tense in the bush with charlie, any noise and my heart just races (not to mention hunters dogs that have gotten a bit ahead, pig dogs are just very scary animals).
in fights if the other dog is on lead keep bob on lead, but if they are attacking from nowhere dont make his job harder by hanging onto him, they will just get closer to you and you will endanger yourself and bob. often with fights it is just alot of noise but occassionally it isnt, it is the psycho dogs that do that sort of damage, a cranky dog usually just wants to make noise. but always assume it is the psycho till you can determine different. and if you find out where the dog comes from, write a note to the owners explaining the prob and your rights to peace and if repeated you will ring the authorities. ahhh bloody irrisponsible dog owners are the bane of my existance (along with just about everything else, just changes focus daily) so 1000 bad karma points to the GSD mum and all the other bad owners out there. to use an ancient aussie phrase 'we hope your chickens turn into emu and kick your dunny door down'!! :mad: :p :mad:

May 17th, 2004, 09:37 AM
Some years ago I was with an excellent dog trainer who gave me a key piece of advice and in a crisis situation demonstrated what to do if a dog attacks you.
This is not recommended if a dog attacks you with your dog.
We were on patrol and walking without a dog to handle one evening.
A very upset and large, aggressive dog decided to attack us while we were just walking down a street (it was later revealed he was a guard dog used to protect his drug dealers). The dog lunged at Mike's chest-head area.
Mike is one of the most experienced dog handlers and trainers for the one of our government agencies.
Mike did something I had never seen done before and it temporarily disabled the dog-took the fight right out of him and saved our skins-for sure. Plus it did no long term damage to the dog except for teaching him to look before he leapt to bite.
Mike side stepped the lunge and put a head lock on the dog (which does put your face in close proximidy to a set of snapping teeth)and ran his other hand down the dog's throat.
The head lock controls the dog and keeps him from pulling away to bite you.
A hand rammed down a large dog's throat will cause him/her to go into lock down mode since all of a sudden this raging - snarling - snapping - bite machine has run out of air to it's lungs and the gag reflex has gotten it's attention. The dog will struggle to get free but after about 5-8 seconds he is in full panic mode and biting you has slipped completely from his mind.
I don't recommend it for everyone but it was a potent demonstration of
knowledge and control over aggression and panic.
The dog recovered.

May 17th, 2004, 11:20 AM
Wow what a horrible experience.

I hope the city bylaw helps in this situation. Maybe you should avoid going that way at this time, I would!

May 17th, 2004, 04:57 PM
a friend of mine worked as a posty for aus post. they had some pretty good training methods to handle agro dogs and they are pretty good at it. one of their methods is this-if you meet a dog on your own and it is a freak, submit and get out of there. do not make eye contact, hunch your shoulders and slowly move backward, do not turn back on the dog just keep going backwards, this is one of the posty tricks i know and apparently it works well.
it woud be really interesting to find out how guide dogs are trained with attacking dogs and what they do, i have tried to find out in the past but with little success. funny charlie does not approach guide dogs, she wont go near them, i truly believe that she knows that they are a special or different type of dog. but it would not be like that in general would it??now that would be scary, blind and beign attacked sheesh. i wonder if the guide dogs are good fighters??
drug dealer dogs are a big problem, over hear they train their dogs (often piggin dogs) to stay with the dope crops and attack if anyone comes near, this is a real hazard for bush walkers.stupid drug dealers :mad: