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Arthritis

golden girl
August 19th, 2007, 11:47 PM
Just wondering if anyone is familiar with or has given their dog the Cartrophin Vet injections for arthritis. 1 a week for 4 weeks. If so, any results would be greatly appreciated. :shrug: Thanks

growler~GateKeeper
August 20th, 2007, 03:45 AM
Cartrophen Vet is available either as an injection or as a pill.
My Cally had arthritis in the hips & spine & was on Cartrophen Vet - 1 inj a week for 4 weeks then the next two inj were 2 weeks apart, he was also getting daily glucosamine, omega3 and had 2 physical therapy treatments 3 weeks apart that included Laser & massage therapy, I was also giving daily massages as per therapists' instructions.

Cally had no side effects from the injections.

There was def improvement even after the ist injection in Callys' mobility/sense of well being. He could manage the stairs easier & could run to the gate & back without soreness/limping etc. He had steadily improved after every inj & every physical therapy session. After the 5th CV inj & 1st Laser treatment he felt so good that he jumped in the truck on his own because I wasn't quick enough to stop him so I could lift him in.

Unfortunately I cannot give results past 8 weeks because Cally was euthanized the day after the 6th injection. (On the day he was scheduled to get his 6th inj he had a fibrocartilaginous embolism that lodged in his spine before the 6th inj & was paralyzed almost fully from the neck down his liver & kidneys were failing & had a minor heart murmur on top of hip & spinal arthritis, his vet gave him the 6th inj hoping that would help to loosen the material logded next to the spinal cord)

Would I choose to treat w/Cartophen in the future should the need arise? Absolutely.

I'm not sure if you have to have Adobe to read this, it will ask you to download the pages but it's not neccesary to save them in order to read it. This is an updated version of the info my vet gave me when I started Cally on Cartophen.
http://www.arthritis.au.com/htm/vet_01.htm

Quote: "CARTROPHEN VET has a low incidence of side effects that are mild and transitory. The estimated real incidence of suspected adverse reactions probably and possibly associated with CARTROPHEN VET in the United Kingdom was 0.074% on an individual dose basis (submissions to the Veterinary Medicines Directorate from 1991 to 1999; assumes 10% of reactions reported). Vomiting (onset 5 to 15 minutes after administration) and general demeanour changes (quietness and/or lethargy and/or inappetence) for 1 or 2 days after administration were considered product related. While the cause of these reactions is presently unknown, there was some evidence that a transitory elevation in histamine activity may be implicated. Anti-histamine medication was proposed as a rational treatment in these cases. There was no evidence of spontaneous bleeding (local or systemic) attributable to CARTROPHEN VET such as that observed with heparin. Hannon RL, et al. (2003). J. Small. Anim. Pract. 44(5): 202-208."

Quote: "The ability of CARTROPHEN VET to address the clinical signs of canine OA, including lameness and pain, has been demonstrated in an open clinical trial in Japan. According to the veterinarianís impression, 96% of cases improved with CARTROPHEN VET treatment, while lameness improved in 84.2% of cases and pain improved in 76.3% of cases. Data on file, Biopharm Australia Pty Ltd."

:fingerscr Good luck keep us updated :goodvibes:

golden girl
August 20th, 2007, 02:41 PM
Thanks Growler, for the info. I am hesitant to start the injections because she has Mast Cell Cancer, which is being controlled with prednisone therapy.During my research of the drug Cartrophen Vet I did find some info stating that some dogs with cancer have crashed after recieving the injections. These dogs had differant types of cancer than she has. I have not found any info on mast cell cancer and CV. Currently she gets glucosamine and shark cartilage, physio, and has a magnet collar. She is getting weaker in the back legs very quickly but I thought if I could get her joints feeling better, it might help her to be able to be more active and build up the muscle in her back legs. She is a 13 year old golden retriever and weighs about 90lbs, I know that sounds heavy but she is just a very big boned dog. My vet says she could maybe lose 5lbs. I have to do something very shortly because Im afraid at the rate she is going it won't be long before she is not able to get up. Too many changes to her already suppresed immune system is another scarey thought. She has only been on the prednisone for 5 weeks but all of her tumors have gone and she had a mass in her lower belly the size of a large grapefruit, it to is completely gone. CANCER:wall: :mad: :yell: :frustrated: :confused: :sad: :sad: :sad:

growler~GateKeeper
August 20th, 2007, 11:15 PM
:sad: I'm sorry to hear about the cancer too. I have no experience with that so unfortunately (but good for me) can't offer any sugestions :sad:

Is there any Animal Critical Care Clinic (different from Emergency Clinic) in your area that your vet could give you a referal for physical therapy? As I mentioned in the above post the strenghtening exercises, massages & Laser treatment really helped along with the CV.

golden girl
August 20th, 2007, 11:39 PM
She is having physio tharapy. Laser has not been mentioed...I will look into that. Thanks. Took her for a little swim earlier thisevening, she seems a little more spunky tonight, cool water probably felt good and I imagine swimming would be very good for her muscles, as long as she feels up to it I think I will take her as often as I can.

mummummum
August 21st, 2007, 02:39 AM
Is there an animal therapy pool anywhere in your area GG ? Swimming is great for dogs with mobility issues but the best is either an underwater treadmill or swimming in a heated pool. If there isn't one for dogs ask around with the big animal Vets as equine occupational therapy/ wellness centres often have them as well.

golden girl
August 21st, 2007, 11:14 PM
Thanks mum::goodvibes: , now I have something else to look into. I love this forum and really appreciate all the ideas, suggestions and advise:lovestruck: . Good support for true pet people going through rough times, some of people just think your:crazy: its only a dog!!!!!!! WRONG:evil: ANSWER specially on a day where cagney is having a bad day

growler~GateKeeper
August 21st, 2007, 11:33 PM
She is having physio tharapy. Laser has not been mentioed...I will look into that. Thanks. Took her for a little swim earlier thisevening, she seems a little more spunky tonight, cool water probably felt good and I imagine swimming would be very good for her muscles, as long as she feels up to it I think I will take her as often as I can.

Laser therapy targets the cells that are causing problems & def helped w/Cally, so yes see if that can help in your situation but absolutely check w/your vet first because of the cancer situation to make sure that doesn't interfere/cause complications.

Swimming is great for muscle building & it's non weight bearing so it's easier on the bones/joints/site of arthritis. I was also suggested to get Cally into swimming but because of no dog friendly pools & the growly boy was dog-aggressive I couldn't take him to the ocean. The ACC Clinic in my area was putting in a swimming pool but it wasn't ready until 6 months after Cally passed.

good luck:)

growler~GateKeeper
August 26th, 2007, 01:20 AM
We need an update on Cagney please :) How's she doing??

golden girl
August 26th, 2007, 11:36 PM
I have been taking Cagney swimming for the past week and a half and it really seems to be helping to strengthen her back legs. She is not great but she is better than she was 2 weeks ago. I have also been giving her baths in my jet tub with epsom salts...she likes this she would sit in there forever I think:cloud9: . We have taken our matress off the frame because she can no longer jump up on it, we can get her up on it but Im afraid of her trying to get down by herself when we are sleeping. She has been sleeping with us for 13 years and still wants to so that was the only way I could think of so she still could.:sleepy:My husband thinks we crazy but very willingly took the bedframe apart. All of her lumps and bumps are still under control with the prednisone. I spoke to my vet about laser therapy but I guess with the cancer it can be risky, still looking into therapy pools, and still contimplating the Cartrphen Vet injections. I LOVE this dog so much :lovestruck: and she is so greatful for everything we do, you can see it in her eyes and her tail never stops:angel:

growler~GateKeeper
August 26th, 2007, 11:40 PM
Very glad she's doing better :highfive: Swimming & Jet tubs she must be so happy :cloud9: I was wondering about the Laser vs Cancer so it's good your vet is checking into things for Cagney. Did the Vet mention any possible reaction between the CV & cancer?

golden girl
August 27th, 2007, 09:52 PM
Actually thats why I am hesitant to give it to her, I guess there have been reports of some dogs with previosly undiagnosed forms of cancer that have collapsed after recieving the injections. Cagney has had mast cell cancer for 1 1/2 years that I know of, maybe longer. Thats when I found her first lump. I know with people it can spread to other organs and become differant types of cancer I imagine the same thing happens with animals. When she developed the mass in her abdomen we did test it by needle aspirate for lymphoma, it was negative for lymphoma and positive for mast cell cancer. All of her bloodwork is normal. My vet is currently treating another dog for mast cell cancer with prednisone this is also a large dog that developed the same type of problem with the back end weakness and it has had the CV injections and is doing very well. I want to try the CV because I have read so many good things about it, but I am very afraid that her cancer may have spread to other organs and we don't know about it. Then on the other hand the CV could greatly improve the quality of her life. Like I said in my last reply she does seem to be doing better but she is still having a very hard time standing up from laying down and coming up the 5 stairs into our home. Any suggestions?? What would you do?? CV or Wait or No CV??:confused: :confused:

growler~GateKeeper
August 27th, 2007, 11:10 PM
I guess there isn't a way to test for cancer in the organs without biopsy on each of the organs huh?

What would I do? That's a tough question.

What's the timeline comparison of the other dog, do you know? How long has it had cancer? How long on prednisone?

The other studies - did they mention if the collapse was right after first inj, how are those dogs now? did they recover? What does your vet recommend?

I think I would wait another week, keep up the swimming & jet tub, see how she is. I would go for the CV but only if the dogs in the other studies recovered & if the Vet recommends it.

I saw great improvement in Cally w/CV but then he didn't have cancer so that def changes the situation.

Only you know what's best for Cagney & I hope & :pray: she finds some relief with whatever treatment route you choose.

:grouphug: :goodvibes:

golden girl
August 28th, 2007, 12:33 AM
The other dog was 10 when it was diagnosed with mast cell cancer and put on prednisone. It never had surgury was on pred for 1 1/2 years before CV injections that was about 1 year ago, dog is doing well.:thumbs up :) :) :dog: Cagney was just under12 when she developed first lump it was surgically removed, no lumps for 16 months then 1 lump behind right ear, injected with pred totally gone no return. 2 months later several lumps around neck(20-30) and large mass in abdomen all in a period of 8-10 days. Put on oral pred high dose for 2 weeks (50mg bid)(Lumps and mass gone end of first 2 weeks on pred) Dose cut in half for 2 weeks (25mg bid) Dose cut in half 2 weeks (12.5 bid) Now she is on 12.5mg bid every second day hoping to be able to cut in half one more time.(As long as she does not develope any more lumps) I wish I had the vet I have now when Cagney was first diagnosed!!! I am under the impression that the most of the dogs that collapsed from CV, died.(but I will find out) The collapse is usually after the first injection. My vet suggested it to me gave me all the pros and cons, he feels fairly comfortable with it but obviously can't garantee that there won't be any problems. 2 months ago Cagney had no problems getting up and no problems on our steps. Shortly after starting the pred she became unable to get up off a hard floor without help, her back legs kept sliding out from under her, I was putting vetwrap on her back feet so she could get traction, once she was up she was not to bad. Now she is able to get up on her own without the vetwrap on her feet althought sometimes it is quite an effort and she really hesitates at the steps but she can do it. I hate to see her like this, but she still seems happy. Loves her food as always, loves the other dogs and my 2 year old son. I am hoping with the reduced dose of pred I will be able to get some muscle built back up in her legs. So thats where I am at now. Sorry about the long winded explanation...:sorry: Thanks growler for all of your support I really appreciate it.:goodvibes: :goodvibes:

growler~GateKeeper
August 30th, 2007, 12:05 AM
Sorry I didn't get back to you, I was away from the computer all day & most of the night Tuesday.

I would still wait & check to see what happened with the other dogs (who collapsed :sad:). But the good results from the other dog your vet is treating is very encouraging.:) CV was such a great treatment for Cally but I don't want to influence your decision one way or the other cuz I have no experience w/cancer (I would hate to be the one who swayed you in a direction that ultimately was wrong for Cagney).

Have you looked into/is it possible for you to put a ramp w/rubber traction over part of the stairs for Cagney to ease the ups & downs? They are available specially designed for dogs for in & out of cars - I think most of those are carpeted. But for the house you could (if you have a Handy person around) make one much like the wheelchair ramps people have instead of stairs - it wouldn't have to cover the stairs entirely just enough for her to comfortably walk up to the house. Then put rubber material down on it to give her traction (carpet not so good for outside :D)

and your welcome :) :goodvibes: :grouphug:, :goodvibes: :grouphug: for Cagney :dog: too!

growler~GateKeeper
September 12th, 2007, 06:44 PM
Any update on Cagney?? :goodvibes: :fingerscr :grouphug: