Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

Need some help, at a road block.

erykah1310
August 6th, 2007, 04:50 PM
Well, I have been a bit silenced in my internet life lately, Guy and myself are working on something that is sort of in demand in this area, especially this time of year.
Considering when it comes to black bear problems MNR is a bit slow on the draw in our region, many of these "nussance" bears end up shot dead by frustrated land owners. Understandable, yet unfortunately leaving many orphaned young cubs ( had such an incident last year that has not stopped pulling at my heart strings since this incident many of you may remember ) Anyways, after watching on TV a few months ago about Bear Shepherding with Karelean Bear Dogs, along with Conservation officers and rubber bullets we have started some research. Finding that this technique ( however critiqued) actually is helping. Soooo. Since we currently have a bear residing in our field and coming "dangerously" close to the house at night to nibble on our choke cherry tree and after hearing of neighbours with the same "problem" we just would hate for this bear to be gunned down next spring ( granted it survives fall bear hunt) with a cub.
There are many MANY provincial parks in our area, and all of which are "unpatrolled" by any sort of bear shepherding operations and only having trap and release in place, leaving many encounters with uneducated campers/hikers who unknowingly attract the bears to them increasing the chances of injuries. We are looking into starting this up.
I have contacted MNR as well as done some research on govt site regarding this issue and this definately may become a reality for us.
Not only KBD's can be used for this, and in fact I am "tweaking" my dreams just a tad from the show ring to something that will indeed benifit a breed by utilizing its natural instinct as well as benifit many people over the years.
So, now I am putting together a proposal which I have to submit to a few people, one being a bank ( to purchase a farm for this purpose) as well as govt agencies among other places.
I dont know what to say.... I am not very good with getting my point across with words with out babbling ( see above lol)
Any one have experience with writing proposals that are powerful and to the point??? I need some pointers.
Help Please.

Frenchy
August 6th, 2007, 04:55 PM
I dont know what to say.... I am not very good with getting my point across with words

And with me being french , I'm not too sure I understand :laughing: Are you starting a bear rescue ? :confused:

SableCollie
August 6th, 2007, 04:56 PM
Just remember to include statistics (effectiveness of programs, how many problem bear encounters in area), examples of programs already in use (and include a contact if you can), and how your program will function. Write like you are confident about them agreeing to your proposal, even if you are not!!

Too bad you didn't think of this earlier, I had a lovely KBD in shelter last year you could have adopted. :o What breeds are you planning on using?

mummummum
August 6th, 2007, 05:12 PM
Ontario has small ventures / entrepreneurship start up programs and Toronto (not sure about the near North) has training seminars for same.

I just did a quick google and found this

http://www.grants-loans.org/grantsloans/reports.php?prov=on

http://www.sbe.gov.on.ca/ontcan/sbe/en/home_en.jsp.

In a former life I have both written and evaluated community service type start up grants / business proposals~ anything I can do to help (I'm a happy proofreader and editor !) let me know.

erykah1310
August 6th, 2007, 05:12 PM
And with me being french , I'm not too sure I understand :laughing: Are you starting a bear rescue ? :confused:

No, what it is, basically is a trapped bear is released not so far from where it was trapped and "chased" away by guns ( bean bags and rubber bullets) a yelling crowd and barking dogs.
Basically over a period of time teaching that particular bear that it takes up more of its reserves heading into human areas for food than it would to stay away from them.
Bluntly put... scare the sh@t outta the bear so it learns that humans= terrifying experiences, nothing painful but scary indeed.

What breeds are you planning on using?
I have my heart set on showing Akita's, now we have thought that this would be more benificial to people than conformation showing one. I dont want to breed, so why would I want to show??? Any breeding that we would do would be strictly for the "program" at a much later date, not for pets.
However, after asking on an Akita forum, and already hearing that the idea was " ludacris" :rolleyes: and them not understanding that the dog is NOT chasing after the dog on their own, but on lead and running with the handler, they are not so responsive. :shrug: :fingerscr the breeder I am talking to understands what I am saying more. lol
So, to answer your question, Akitas and or KBDs are the breeds of choice for us.

coppperbelle
August 6th, 2007, 05:23 PM
I used to know a breeder of Akita's and he told me his dogs never barked. I don't know how true this is but if it is a trait of Akita's they may not be ideal dog for scaring the crap out of bears.

Good luck with your venture. It sounds very promising.

clm
August 6th, 2007, 05:27 PM
Good luck to you with your venture :thumbs up I think it's time that cottagers, homeowners campers and hikers get fined for not properly storing food and garbage in bear country. Too many bears pay the price for thoughtless human activity.

Our cottage had loads of bears around, we ran into them fairly frequently and actually had one try to get into the cottage one night after mom had stewed some strawberries and rhubarb....I guess it smelled too tasty for the bear. He didn't get in, but scared my mom pretty good :laughing: Never had a bad encounter other than that over the 40 years I went up there, garbage was stored properly and they passed by quickly and quietly. We learned all we good about black bears and their habits too, my uncle who worked for the MNR insisted on it. :o

They're only doing what comes naturally. I've seen shows on the scaring the bears with shots and bean bags and KBD's. From what I saw on this show, it works.
I think it's a wonderful thing you are planning to do.

Cindy

erykah1310
August 6th, 2007, 05:44 PM
I used to know a breeder of Akita's and he told me his dogs never barked. I don't know how true this is but if it is a trait of Akita's they may not be ideal dog for scaring the crap out of bears.

Good luck with your venture. It sounds very promising.

They are not big barkers no, I have read that they dont bark unless there is a reason to bark so when you hear them barking pay attention because something is definately going on.
The scent of the bear would have to be the "something is going on" trigger for barking.

glitterless
August 7th, 2007, 03:49 AM
Good for you! I think this is a great idea. I second the idea of lots of stats. Also, try to find a similar operation that is successful and compare numbers if you can. The bank probably doesn't see many businesses like this and thus may consider you a huge risk, so it would be great to be able to show them how someone else succeeded. Maybe the MNR could help you find something similar.

Good luck :)

CyberKitten
August 7th, 2007, 02:16 PM
In the US, even more so than Canada (I can't recall where you are, sorry!), there are grants to hire grant writers, if that makes sense. I have written a plethora of grant proposals but none about bears. There is a formula that does work however - a synopsis or abstract to start with (a summary if you will of what your proposal will consist of), an introduction - what the purpose of your work will be (if there is a correlation to be made, describe that as well but in your situation, it is likely that what you seek to accomplish may be enough).

Then, depending on who you are writing if for, you will need to develop it. Research the groups you are writing it to - how do THEY write, what language do they use. If you look at newspapers for example, some use certain types of words and language (it style of writing), others have anther kind. If you an get your hands on a Stylebook, use it. There may be one online. I invested in a CP and NYT and AP one years ago and it has paid huge dividends!!

Break it down into chapters though you may not need many with a modest proposal.

The Introduction

Reason for the Research - why it is necessary, why does it work, you might include a literature review and other similar projects that have worked here. By lit review, I mean other studies that correlate with your work.

Research Method (or if it not research per se, Project method -ie, how to you plan to accomplish your goal?)

Your Actual Proposal - the nuts and bolts in detail. Be as specific as possible without unnecessary details. Busy bureaucrats do not have that much time. (Even bureaucrats do not want t read a 55 page proposal)

Funding - how you plan to fund it, you can never ask any group ,even the govt , to find an entire proposal unless it is every specific one for say hiring summer students or a very specific research that is being sponsored by one group or whoever you work for (like in my case, my hospital or university) but this project needs operating funds from say a govt or Foundation. Most govts and Foundations will fund operational but not capital coats.

Conclusion

Do not forget to attribute comments and quotes and cite references.

Good luck!!

You might also ask other groups and indivuals to endore your project

SableCollie
August 7th, 2007, 02:48 PM
So, to answer your question, Akitas and or KBDs are the breeds of choice for us.
The KBD we had, her personality and behaviour were somewhat like an akita...maybe a bit less "domesticated". (We actually thought we were getting an akita/border collie mix, as that was what the vet told us--she was a stray, brought to a vet--I looked at her and said "omg...that is a KBD!" I had never seen one in my life before then. I was excited! :D ) We had to drive her 8 hours to the only KBD rescue in the US because she was not really a "pet" type dog, definitely needed someone experienced with the breed type, and also a job to do. Also they are apparently insanely good escape artists, and can get out of almost any kind of fencing...I think akitas might be easier to handle, but they might not be as good at the job as KBD's, not as instinctive. Akitas do tend to be very quiet dogs, I know my grandfather's only ever barked at one person, whom she didn't like. Even though she hated strangers coming in the house she would just sort of stand there and look intimidating and not bark. Of course she never encountered a bear!

erykah1310
August 7th, 2007, 05:51 PM
After really looking into it, KBD's are really the best for the job. Once we get more stuff figured out we will probably find a good breeder and get talking with them.
I would still like to try Akita's. I think I am going to go ahead with my showing venture, and on the side work her... if she works out great if not, well I still have my show dog.

SableCollie
August 7th, 2007, 07:30 PM
I think I might still have a list of KBD breeders...we contacted a few when we got our KBD in to confirm the breed and then try to place her. A couple of them were very nice, gave us lots of info on the breed, and posted her picture on their websites to try to help us before we found the rescue. If you want any contacts, let me know, and I could try to dig them up for you.

Of course I love akitas too, my relatives showed and bred akitas for many years, and I just love them, they are so gorgeous! :lovestruck: It would be great if you could have both. I know both breeds are prone to dog aggression though, hopefully they would all get along!