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Dog training

mindis12
August 5th, 2007, 04:56 PM
I am bringing this subject up do to the fact many dog owners are being mislead,.,, I am truly tired of how dog trainers promote the prong collar,, I personally believe it is cruel and should not be used.. They are forbidden in our training program...Positive reinforcements no harsh treatments allowed..

LavenderRott
August 5th, 2007, 05:02 PM
Interesting.

Do you allow regular choke collars?

mindis12
August 5th, 2007, 05:12 PM
We allow soft niylon chokes and the origanal chokes. Although I personally imprint my pups prior to any leash and or collar is attached.. I have to go but will get into further detail tomorrow..

LavenderRott
August 5th, 2007, 05:19 PM
Again. Interesting.

I will never, ever put a choke collar of any kind on any of my dogs but I will use a prong collar.

A choke collar can do some serious damage to a dog's throat - there is nothing to stop it from constricting EXCEPT the flesh of your dog.

A properly fitted prong collar is incapable of tightening up more then a fraction of an inch, thereby allowing a slight pinch but no possiblity of strangling or damaging the bones/muscles of the throat.

lilmegshepherds
August 5th, 2007, 05:24 PM
Both of my trainers refuse to use choke collars of any kind.
One is a master trainer and he has trained several police service dogs and he refuses to work with anyone using a choke collar.

We use the pinch collar for training!

mindis12
August 5th, 2007, 05:31 PM
Yes I can see your point although using the Choke collar and or training lead correctly then there would not be any type of damage directed to the dogs throat.. The dog is to work on the master's commands and to do so it takes extensive positive inforcements. Negitive harsh jerks should never apply with either the choke and or prong collar.

Winston
August 5th, 2007, 06:15 PM
Yes I can see your point although using the Choke collar and or training lead correctly then there would not be any type of damage directed to the dogs throat.. The dog is to work on the master's commands and to do so it takes extensive positive inforcements. Negitive harsh jerks should never apply with either the choke and or prong collar.

Mindis12...what about a dog that is much tronger than you physically and at least 115lbs?

My dog has been through 3 levels of obedience and still his strength could kill him! He can break through a choke chain like butter...but not a prong collar..he is obediant and an awesome dog BUT any dog if the right temptation is there could bolt and get killed.( and take ytou with them!!) ..My dog dragged me across a busy intersection one evening almost getting us killed because he saw something on the other side of the road...he had a choke chain on!!! ( I had no control over him physically because of his size and he took me off gueard! ) Since I have used the prong collar he does not seem to care about things across the street!

Dont get me wrong I sgree with your methods but the size of the dog really does matter!!

Cindy

mindis12
August 6th, 2007, 09:46 AM
Hi Cindi; Yes you have a point many dogs can be larger than most and when they get it in their head to do something they will..

I had a Dogo Argentino Spider we work K-9 Security together I will tell you Spider was a POWER HOUSE.. 32 inches at the shoulder and 160 lbs.. and then we had his attitude... no # a$$ hole...

Mind you I could do all and anything with this dog, on and off leash.. when I instructed him to do something he did mind you not always a willing camper.. Let someone else try sorry he'd kick in and kick in quick.. Meaning he would challange the party wishing to handle him.. Did I work on this area? Yes did he change some what...Spiders intentions were to work with his master and no one else.. My Shepherds are the same way..

I purchased Spider at the age of 31/2 and he was raised in a abusive home so as far as aggressive and goofy he was it and had it. Spider and I worked in K-9 Security from the day I purchased him.. He was just wonderful until the one day.. I was working a strike detail, not the best situation what so ever.. Anyhow one of the strickers brought out a Pit Bull and a Dalmation to intimidate Spider and I.... As well to redirect my focus from the site we were working all together.

Well that did not go over well for the stricker, and thank God he and his dogs were on the other side of the fence. SPider did his job he kicked in defense and stopped right when I gave him the command. SPIDER OUT!!! With that he stopped and at that command..

The stricker has commented; I did not realize that the dog was that intense! I commented well now you know...

At that point I had to contact my Supervisor, to assist in searching the premisses. Why? WEll with this type of distraction anyone could come onto the property and it was my duty to secure all situations.

I had Spider working on a flat collar that day.. I guess what I am saying with intense positive training any leash or collar should work.. Its about unconditional love that makes the dog work, not the collar...Take a look at my website. you will see I am working Miss Fritz with a collar and not a choke or prong.. http:www.k9adventure.9k.com

Lukka'sma
August 6th, 2007, 11:15 AM
I guess what I am saying with intense positive training any leash or collar should workhttp:

Under any circumstances, regardless of the distraction..I think you are dreaming.

mindis12
August 6th, 2007, 11:50 AM
[QUOTE=Lukka'sma;460343]Under any circumstances, regardless of the distraction..I think you are dreaming.[/QUOT

You have the right to your comments.. Although when you have trained as many dogs as I have dreaming does not even come into the vocabilary. or subject..

It is classified as consistent positive renound training tech's that assist in all situations. Our Master trainer's focus on the positives as we do.. No prong collars and or harsh training allowed.. Positive corrective natural training works wonders. Generally it is not the dog that has the issues its the owners. This is why we stress education work and substance of work that beats the means of unpredictable attitudes and situations. Or at that learning to read your dog with doing such you will always know your dogs intentions way be for it happens..Thus you will always be on top of the game.

mona_b
August 6th, 2007, 11:52 AM
I have used both the choke and flat on my dogs.None of my GSD's were 'major" pullers...Should a choke be used on a dog that pulls hard core?Absalutely not.That when the damage can be done to them.And many people I have seen have put the choke on wrong.

As for the comment about the Police Dogs,when they do their canine training,they will have a choke or flat used.It has nothing to do with them being pullers,as these dogs are not pullers.My current GSD is a retired Police Dog.And my brothers partner uses both the choke and the flat.And 5 of the 6 at my station wear a choke.

My breeder titled her dogs in SchH III.And her training was done with a choke.And many of her dogs where sold to the force.BUT the training done on these dogs for the force is much harder after that.And some don't make it.

mindis12
August 6th, 2007, 12:09 PM
Mona_B your right on topic;;;; nice to know there's some one here I can relate with..:cloud9:

mona_b
August 6th, 2007, 01:00 PM
I just wanted to make it a point that a choke should not be used on a hard core puller,as damage can happen.


I worked very hard at training my dogs from day one.And yes I did all the training.Two I raised together.Both were 3 months old.And training 2 at the same time is not easy...LOL..But was worth it.And one(my current) was trained in German.NOT easy.They were trained to focus on me.I trained them in distractions first,as this is the hardest.And trust me,a handler doesn't want his dog taking off after a bird when he's supposed to be after a suspect.:eek:

I find when you are taking your dog to OB,people will say how good the dog is in there.But then say the dog doesn't listen outside of it.I find the reason being is that there are no distractions in a building.There are not birds,cats,squirrels,cars,kids ect.

I also find the "heel" command very important from day one.

I see people letting their pups pulling.And I can't help but think you better nip that in the bud now before he/she gets bigger.Then you will have problems.

mindis12
August 6th, 2007, 01:55 PM
Sounds like you have had a load of fun... I know when we start our dogs off, its all about fun.. :thumbs up Sure we have the odd what the @@@@! Which can be so very upseting.

I find there are to many trainers that jump all over the mistake..with harsh corrections which are very painfull to both dog and owner.. I never forget going to a trainer here in Aburg.. He had this young lab on leash go figure with a Prong collar.. The dog was submissive but yet so terrified. The trainer proceeds to administer heavey jerks knee's the dog then steps on the dog pulls the dog the whole situation was just to dam abusive..

The trainers statement was Oh by the way this is my personal dog and no one elses.. Then states this is what happens from improper breeding.. The dog has no brains.. Personally I was going to say NO THE TRAINER HAS NO BRAINS..

In 35 years of training I have seen it all and to be honest with you, I will stay with my training tec's. I am always willing to learn and always open minded, to positive training.. I am totally against abusive training... People like this should be shot.. But that is my personal opinion...