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Barking Dog!!!!!

want4rain
July 28th, 2007, 09:36 AM
WOO HOO!!

we have him barking on command and with hand signal!!!

YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAY!!! what a cool dog!!!


now we need to teach him how to NOT bark lol!!

any suggestions?? what we did to teach him TO bark is this-

when he barked at somethign undesirable we ignored him, as in when he barked at the door, we didnt let him in, when he barked at the gate, we didnt let him in, when he barked when we came home, we stayed outside until he stopped. when he barked at someone coming up to the house while outside of his kennel i would give the bark the vocal command. once he got "bark" meant to bark we worked on it with the hand signal. (if you wanted to know the hand signal is with my fist at my hip.) our next step with working the hand signal is going to be when i am not looking at him so when i do the hand signal he barks no matter what else im doing.

we arent sure where to go with NOT barking. any advice would be appreciated!

also, we are working on taking him out on a leash to amek the transition to training classes possible. we WILL be taking him to training classes in the next few weeks... leash training is going wonderfully! if you feel we shoudl wait until training before teaching him to hush thats fine. im just happy he is barking on command. :)

-ashley

ps. stay tuned this evening for Frances pics. :) SOMEBODY in this house has a crush on her!! guess who it is!! more tonight at 9pm.

Jim Hall
July 28th, 2007, 10:44 AM
it took me bloody months to get my lab stoner to stop barking on command
and he never really learned not to bark
every time he barked i knew about, i would go out and gently hold his mouth shut and wave my arm then i would leave The very first time he obeyed the command I called him over and gave him a treat and lots of belly rubs he loved those
I lost count at abour 80 times i had to go hold him and give him the signal
but everyone pitched in and after a long time he got it more or less.

as he got older he barked less and we could usually say stoner!! in a strong voice and he would stop, usually lol

Stoner wasnt to bright a dog though he was a wonderfull guy.

sugarcatmom
July 28th, 2007, 10:54 AM
Seeing as I'm a big fan of Dr. Ian Dunbar, I'm going to recommend you check out this article that he wrote on dog barking: http://www.dogstardaily.com/article/excessive-barking Hopefully it has some tips that will help. And congrats on teaching your pup to bark on command, that's half the battle right there!

mummummum
July 28th, 2007, 02:21 PM
From the oustide looking in, here is what I see.

Mister barking at the door telling his people he wants to come in. People ignore him.
Mister barking at gate, telling his people he wants to be in there with them. People ignore him.
Mister barking inside the house, telling his people he is inside protecting their house and is eager to see them. People ignore him.
People now insisting Mister bark in situations not needing Mister's attention (he didn't normally bark because you're there and you're Da Boss right ? if he didn't trust you, you wouldn't have had to teach him to bark...) and aren't relevant to Mister.

Mister: " People don't make alot of sense ~ how do they expect me to talk to and with them if I want something or I'm nervous?"

How would you like Mister to let you know he wants to come in or be let through the gate ? Vocalizing is his only sure-fire way of getting your attention and clearly communicating his wants/ needs to you. So, if you don't want him to bark in these situations, what behaviour have you encouraged to replace barking ? Dogs are more than willing to learn and to conform to your needs and expectations. But we (the People :D ) need to remember that they ALSO have needs and expectations and they need a way to communicate those needs to us. What you've done is told Mister to ignore what he thinks his job is and to stop trying to tell you he has wants and needs because you want him only to communicate (bark) as a "parlour trick".

So, if you want Mister to bark only as an "alarm" then you need to give him another means to talk to and with you.

In my household the dogs have been taught that barking is for alarm use only. This means that when they bark I pay attention and act ~ even if I think it's a false alarm or it's 2 a.m. and I am sleeping, if only to reinforce their "good instincts". We live with the premise that "grrrlies are quiet grrrls in the house" and if they bark out of turn, they are told so in a stern voice. This would be said in response to their barking at a dog barking noise on the radio or television or a neighbour comes home jingling their keys along the way, or a dog passes by etc.

But when they bark at anything else and I can't detect and obvious false stimuli (loud television noise) or a incorrect situation in which to raise the alarm (dog passing by), I need to check out the window, the door or wherever it is they seem to be barking in order to close the episode. I need to assume that they are doing their job ~ and their job is raising the alarm, I need to assume something is threatening us. As soon as they have barked, I say "THANK YOU, that's enough" and I act. They need to see me act so that they know they can relax ~ I'm in control, I have stopped the threat.

I have to do this to ensure I have their trust as "da Boss".

Phew ~ long post :laughing:

Dracko
July 28th, 2007, 11:08 PM
I agree mummummum.

want4rain
July 29th, 2007, 01:14 AM
i took the quotes off because its almost 2am here and im ot clever enough to close out the quotes right now. :) i hope you dont mind!


Mister barking at the door telling his people he wants to come in. People ignore him.
*we would rather he ring the bell, it doesnt carry sound to the neighbors nor scare the pants off of me. :)

Mister barking at gate, telling his people he wants to be in there with them. People ignore him.
*he is put in the kitchen when we eat. im sure he wants in here but thats unacceptable right now. we are trying to keep more positive things concerning him than negative things at any given time. the temptation of Jeffrey handing him such yummy goodness is just too much to handle. :) maybe once we have more GOOD things then we can add another stressful training.

Mister barking inside the house, telling his people he is inside protecting their house and is eager to see them. People ignore him.
*we would like him to understand his people come in quicker if he isnt barking as opposed to us waiting until AFTER he is DONE barking. im not sure what an alternative is?

People now insisting Mister bark in situations not needing Mister's attention (he didn't normally bark because you're there and you're Da Boss right ? if he didn't trust you, you wouldn't have had to teach him to bark...) and aren't relevant to Mister.

Mister: " People don't make alot of sense ~ how do they expect me to talk to and with them if I want something or I'm nervous?"
*im sure we make very little sense to him!! im not sure how much sense we make to ourselves! but i think he knows we are trying too. :) he has been very very very patient with us and out blundering training. :) he tries so hard!

How would you like Mister to let you know he wants to come in or be let through the gate ? Vocalizing is his only sure-fire way of getting your attention and clearly communicating his wants/ needs to you. So, if you don't want him to bark in these situations, what behaviour have you encouraged to replace barking ? Dogs are more than willing to learn and to conform to your needs and expectations. But we (the People :D ) need to remember that they ALSO have needs and expectations and they need a way to communicate those needs to us. What you've done is told Mister to ignore what he thinks his job is and to stop trying to tell you he has wants and needs because you want him only to communicate (bark) as a "parlour trick".
*we are starting to put the barking to things. such as we have a man who walks to the mail boxes every day. we are working on a single bark or two barks to let us know that someone is in the front yard. next we will work on people walking in the front yard, but again, a single bark or two. barking is ok, just not the BARK BARK BARK BARK. you know??

So, if you want Mister to bark only as an "alarm" then you need to give him another means to talk to and with you.
*for the situations... ill think of them when i am more awake, im sure i will ask for alternatives. :)

In my household the dogs have been taught that barking is for alarm use only. This means that when they bark I pay attention and act ~ even if I think it's a false alarm or it's 2 a.m. and I am sleeping, if only to reinforce their "good instincts". We live with the premise that "grrrlies are quiet grrrls in the house" and if they bark out of turn, they are told so in a stern voice. This would be said in response to their barking at a dog barking noise on the radio or television or a neighbour comes home jingling their keys along the way, or a dog passes by etc.

But when they bark at anything else and I can't detect and obvious false stimuli (loud television noise) or a incorrect situation in which to raise the alarm (dog passing by), I need to check out the window, the door or wherever it is they seem to be barking in order to close the episode. I need to assume that they are doing their job ~ and their job is raising the alarm, I need to assume something is threatening us. As soon as they have barked, I say "THANK YOU, that's enough" and I act. They need to see me act so that they know they can relax ~ I'm in control, I have stopped the threat.
*hmm, thats interesting. we havent figured out yet what is a good barking situation... or not. barking to get us in the house isnt acceptable. we know that many dogs will bark when you are OFF of the property. we arent really sure what to do abotu that. i assume most of that is because of boredom, as is the case with our neighbors dog. my main motivation for his barking on command- two things really... one os so he can bark on hand command for home protection and to also teach him WHEN to bark (even if we havent exactly figured out what those times are).

I have to do this to ensure I have their trust as "da Boss".

Phew ~ long post :laughing:
*lovely post MumX3. i appreciate it.

sugarcatmom thank you for the site, very very useful. i think we can use a good bit of that!!

*im heading to bed. its quite late here!!

-ashley

Dracko
July 29th, 2007, 01:43 AM
*we would rather he ring the bell, it doesnt carry sound to the neighbors nor scare the pants off of me.


:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

mummummum
July 29th, 2007, 12:57 PM
Okay, I think I've got it...

1/ When Mister is outside and would like to come in, he is to ring (I assume) the doorbell to gain entry.
2/ When Mr. is gated away from the family you would like him to occupy himself quietly until you decide to allow him re-entry
3/ You would like Mister to alarm bark, not nuisance bark at potential threats
4/ You would like Mr. to respond to hand signals and bark / stop barking on command and you decide when/ where that occurs.

I'm not sure how far you have come with #1 but I have some thoughts (no really, you MMM?? :D ). Install a large doorbell at Mister's raised paw height ~ otherwise you will end up with major claw marks all over your door frame. I haven't looked at doorbells recently, maybe you can find one that is lever-like rather than a push-style. If not buy the biggest one you can find. I wonder if it could be installed on the porch floor so that he steps on it rather than having to raise a paw and pop it?

I prefer real-life situational learning to artifical learning ~ it takes longer but I've always found it's easier for dogs to translate into permanent learning/ behaviour change. I see this as two-person training. Person A stays in house nearby the door area, Person B is out in the yard, playing with Mister. Once Mister is all played-out and thirsty, possibly even hungry (in other words Mister really wants to go inside) , Person B asks Mister "Time to go inside ? Want a drink ? Are you hungry? Want to see Mummy ? Let's go inside!!!" ~ in other words excitedly reinforcing all the reasons Mister wants to go inside and accompanies (not leads) Mister over to the door and the doorbell. At the doorbell, person B says " Okay time to go inside Mister, press the doorbell" and physically takes Mister's paw and rings the doorbell. Person A, immediately opens door and says "Good boy Mister ! Good boy you rang the doorbell !!!!!!! Come on in you Good Boy !"

If Mister is barking at the same time he is ringing the bell/ being taught to ring the bell, Person B needs to first quiet him while he is on the porch. Redirect his attention from barking by having him sit and telling him "Quiet" in a firm voice. Person B should be standing and leaning over slightly so that Mr. who is now sitting, has to lift his head upwards to see Person B ~ again this directs his attention to Person B and redirects his attention from barking. Here is where you introduce your hand signal for "Quiet." I use my hand in a "librarian's shhhh" (like a hand making a #1) and stretch out my arm bringing my hand to lips. If he's not "getting it", Person B should take him off the porch by the collar (gently of course, this isn't punishment just jiggling his thoughts back into learning mode) and bring him back onto the porch by the collar with a "Let's try again".

I would not use treats at any time otherwise, you may have a dog who rings the doorbell just to get a treat and then asks to go back outside again. :rolleyes: You may have set aside a few days when both you and the DH will be home and together so that you can repeat the exercise each and every time Mister goes outside (obviously as this is training, you will be upping the number of times he goes outside significantly more than his normal routine allows). If you can't do this well... Mister will get mixed messages ("sometimes they let me in when I haven't rung the bell, so ringing the bell isn't really necessary for me to get what I want" ).

Phew another long post and that's only #1 ~ :eek: But that's my :2cents: anywho.

want4rain
July 30th, 2007, 10:02 AM
aww crud, im sorry MumX3, he DOES ring the bell most of the time unless he REALLY REALLY wants inside (ie someone comes in the house while he is outside) but we wait until he is NOT barking BUT ringing the bell, what we did was tied a few bells onto the door, nose height. works wonders!! no scratches (unless i take the paper off of the window and he jumps up to see inside) on the door. he knows ringing the bell USUALLY gets him in as soon as we can get there but he is pretty patient if it takes us a few minutes to get to the door. no barking THEN but when he really really really wants inside he has started barking since i taught him to bark. i think its a combo of his age and that i want him to bark sometimes.

the really tough ones are when we arent there to tell him to hush or when company comes over. our trainer has us working on leash training him the correct response to a visitor. the visitor waits for him make the correct move (which is calmly sitting down) before the visitor approaches him. if he jumps, whines or other wise unacceptable behavior the visitor steps out of range of him on the leash. if he does the right thing he gets a treat and a petting for as long as he is being good but as soon as he is writhing on the ground in the sheer agony of not getting enough petting (like 30 hands might do it for him!) then the visitor steps back and the process starts all over. (go figure) im usually the one holding the leash and i can tell you that his excited lunging at people is almost enough to pull the molding off the walls (cause thats what im holding onto to stay on my feet!!). THAT is coming along but its hard to find peopel who know WHEN to step back because timing is everything right?


so he doesnt always bark at the gate. just when company comes over which is why we ignore him. i hesitate to kennel him because i do NOT want him barking in the kennel. it took us sooooo long to get him over whining and barking in it. he has no NEGATIVE associations with it. we have always given him yummies in it (inconsistently so he isnt ASKING for stuff), crate training him was a very easy, pleasant affair. anyways, when he is done barking at the gate he gets his kong or his bone filled with PB... as for alternatives for barking at the wrong times... other ways to communicate... if i gave my children SOMETHING every time they opened their mouths they would be as big as a house and up to the rafters in toys!


so i started typing this a few days ago (boy its been a heck of a weekend!!). last night i bashed up another bit of chicken for the cats and repackaged a bit... i usually feed Mister the joints because i worry about them with the cats and we worked on hush. everything went WONDERFUL!! he is such a smart dog!! we havent had a practical application yet so i will let you know how it goes then. i will work on him again this evening when i feed him dinner.

he does NOT bark back at the neighbors dog. is that somethign he will start doing?? we hope to have the situation fixed in the next few weeks. ive made my formal complaint with Animal Control. hopefully they will give her the warning soon.

sorry if this comes off disjointed, it took me a few days to get it out.

-ashley

mindis12
August 6th, 2007, 12:20 PM
Wonderful to hear;; I love it when my dogs bark on command and stop barking on command..

We had one shepherd many moons ago that would trigger on swear words.. The last thing you wanted to do was swear in my house..The funny thing was I was the only one that could..

Sneeze as I called her nick name of course, would lay right beside me, and when the old man pulled an attitude she'd kick in.. I would laugh and say now you know better than to swear at me...I would tell Sneeze to quit and she'd stop in her tracks.. I could never figure this one out but it was cute if you ask me..