Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

Cat has Eosinophilic Granuloma Complex - Answered by Dr. Lee

Dracko
July 10th, 2007, 02:24 PM
Ginkgo is only 1 1/2 years old but when I got her at 6 months she had these lesions on her neck. It reminded me of an eczema type skin irritation. Over time it went away though I did notice she had them on the backs of her legs, too. She ignored them so I didn't think too much of it.

The other day she was favoring a paw. Today I took her in and they sedated her so they could go in and take a good look at it. There was infection and they cleaned it out. After telling the vet about her other "symptoms" and showing her the small area still on the back of her leg the vet said it was definitely EGC and that the paw may or may not be connected. There was no wound on the paw or pads so it leads her to believe it is connected and part of the inflammatory skin disease.

The usual treatment is steroids and/or antibiotics. There is no way I'm going to subject her to life of that. This is already an immune system disorder and of course steroids also depress the immunity over time. My intention is to speak to a homeopathic vet we have in another city but wondering if anyone else on here has received that diagnosis for their animal. Currently I would say it doesn't require treatment but I'd like to be preventative and build up her immune system.

Allergies can be a cause of this (or a supposed cause) and maybe that's why her symptoms have cleared up so much since I got her. Her dry food is EVO and on top of that she eats Urban Carnivore (raw food).

If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears....:goodvibes:

Amanda_girl
July 11th, 2007, 02:03 PM
I think you just helped diagnose my cat! My cat has had this irritated itchy spot, where his hair comes out, and its almost scab like, all over his neck, and under his chin. We took him to the vet awhile ago, and they had no answer for me.

After you mentioned the condition, I looked it up and found some pictures that make me think that my cat must have this.

I agree with you though, my cat has been through a lot of tough stuff, and I just don't want to subject him to any more medication that might make him weaker or less healthy in other ways.

After reading some articles, they mention its possibly a flea or food allergy. I'll check with the vet again now that I know what this condition is. I'd like to be able to get rid of this skin problem in a natural way.

Let me know if you find any good remedies!

Thanks!

krdahmer
July 11th, 2007, 03:39 PM
My Fagan has something like this, his though is definitely an allergy to flea bites and corn/chicken. Other than keeping these triggers as far away from him as possible, I have been using some holistic remedies recommended by my vet. Traumeel speeds the healing of the skin, PBUR and SK (Thompson's holistic remedies) work on helaing the skin as well, and Hypericum and rescue remedy work to calm the cat and lesson the damage they do by biting and licking.

And just IMO, I'm sure your cat would rather get to live a longer life on the meds, with you, than not. Talk to the vet about the holistics they can be very effective, especially in combination with the shots, I have found that the holistic meds make the effects of the shots last longer and therefor I need fewer and fewer shots.

All the best to you and your kitty!:goodvibes:

Dracko
July 11th, 2007, 07:34 PM
Amanda, yes your cat's lesions sounds like what Ginkgo has when I got her. Sort of scabbed over. I remember wondering if someone had done something to her before I got her. Now I realize what it was. I know they were itchy for her and she tried to lick her neck, but not obessively.

krdahmer, thanks for your input. I would most certainly give her the medication rather than shorten her life but I can't see reaching for a medication that will compromise her immune system when the problem isn't serious at this point and other safer preventative measure can be taken. I work in the natural health industry and always choose the natural choice unless there is no other or the allopathic one appears to be the better one.

Right now I'm giving Ginkgo the antibiotics the vet prescribed as her paw was pretty badly infected. Hate to take chances. But I am also being responsible and giving her probiotics with her food. While I prefer people to choose a dietary change or herbs/homeopathics, giving them prescribed medication is much better than doing NOTHING.

I'm happy to know what the lesions were on Ginkgo so I can't understand what to do about them now and watch for their appearance. I'm hoping the foods I give her (EVO and raw) will avoid the triggers for the lesions. I am familiar with the cream you suggested as well as the homeopathic remedies, krdahmer and will keep them in mind when I am putting together a program for Ginkgo. Tx

krdahmer
July 11th, 2007, 08:15 PM
Oh and I'm sure you may have already heard this from the vet, but it turns out that one of the bigger triggers for these kinds of skin issues besides flea bites, is chicken! Which I have found is in like 99% of all foods... dry and wet and raw alike. So that may be another thing you might want to try cutting out.:goodvibes:

Dracko
July 11th, 2007, 08:23 PM
Actually, no my vet didn't tell me that. Just said "food allergies" in general. Guess I'll have to start checking out the dry food labels. I'm assuming EVO contains it. :o The raw food I give her never has chicken as none of my animals will eat the raw chicken. It's always beef, bison, elk, etc...

I have to say, though, that her neck hasn't had a lesion on it for months and months. The only one that is present right now is on the back of one leg in a small area. It was all the way down both legs when I first discovered them. Initially I thought maybe when she was a kitten someone had cut her and they were scars. :eek: Then I realized there were scabs on them.

krdahmer
July 11th, 2007, 08:29 PM
Ya Fagan goes sometimes for months and months with no problems, then all of a sudden I catch him going at his boobie. (He starts with the boob then does both hind legs.) So far I've been able to relate it to a flea bite, moving, and a change in food so we are good now, I'm gonna try to keep everything exactly the same!

Dr Lee
July 12th, 2007, 12:39 PM
Sounds like you guys are doing your homework:thumbs up

One note on the steroid. While I am not a steroid fan, with EGC the steroid injection can in some cases permanently resolve the situation. I am treating a cat with that right now. My protocol, besides allergy treatement and food change, is depo-medrol injections. We are going to use one to three injections only. If that doesn't work, then we will use other options. Depo-medrol is not my favorite drug, and does present risks for diabetes, kidney disease, etc... however when employing them on a single or limited basis, the benefits may outweight the risks.

The following an excerpt from Wendy Brooks D.V.M., D.A.B.V.P. from a EGC client handout, "In most cases the eosinophilic granuloma responds to cortisone derivatives though often an aggressive regimen must be used. Typically an injection of long acting corticosteroid (such as Depomedrol) is given every 2 weeks until the lesion is gone or for three injections whichever comes first.

Most eosinophilic granulomas resolve with one injection but some are refractory and will not resolve until antibiotics are used. Some are more refractory still and require more exotic treatments."




If holistic measures are successful, please let me know. Anything that may be useful for a patient as well as reduce steroid use is always a good thing.

Good luck:pawprint:

krdahmer
July 12th, 2007, 06:48 PM
Every two weeks? My vet said it was not recommended to give them that close together, we waited 3-4 weeks between the two shots this round.

And if it is a recurring thing like with Fagan where he gets it whenever he happens to be irritated by an allergen (even though I do my best to avoid them for him), is it ok to treat it every time with the depomedrol? We always try the holistics first, but once he gets it started it is very very hard to stop him from making it worse.

Dr Lee
July 12th, 2007, 08:16 PM
The basic tenant with steroids is, "use as much as is needed and as LITTLE as possible!"

So every two weeks? Well that is a judgement call for you and your veterinarian. There are some EGC that are so severe, that yes I think every 2 weeks is justified. If the signs resolve with one injection, then inject no more. If your veterinarian recommends every 3-4 weeks, then I would go with that.

Treating with depo-medrol whenever he gets them may be an issue depending up the frequency. I don't like injecting depomedrol more than 2-3 times a year. Hopefully once resolved, it will not recur. That would be ideal. :pawprint:

Dracko
July 13th, 2007, 12:29 AM
Thank you for the input, Dr. Lee. I like that kind of advice whereby medication is used but limited. If it meant short term like that, I would be much more apt to try it if Ginkgo's symptoms became troublesome. I always appreciate it when vets understand that kind of thinking and don't just assume we all think nothing of giving our pet a drug to "cure" them. I am not anti-prescribed medication, just prefer it to be used when something like nutritional changes are first looked at. Too many pet owns treat their pets like themselves and would prefer the "quick fix", imo.

krdahmer
July 14th, 2007, 06:12 PM
Ya I really don't like him having to get the shots, especially because they seem to weaken his knee and make him vulnerable to an injury.

Right now I am using a holistic treatment in a preventative manner. Not as frequently as when he has the skin irritation but hopefully enough to stop it before it starts. And we are on an 8 month Revolution cycle to make sure the house is ok (I must have missed a few fleas during my cleaning week before we moved in). It's putting a big dent in the pocket book but if it avoids all the vet trips for Fagan, it's worth it!

Thanks for the advice Dr. Lee, it's always nice to have more than one opinion.

Dracko
July 14th, 2007, 10:00 PM
I'll have to keep the flea thing in mind but I've never encountered even 1 with regards to my pets. Don't you see them flying around or the animal itching?

krdahmer
July 15th, 2007, 03:23 PM
Actually no, sometimes you can see no signs whatsoever. This last attack, I had even sprayed the house with VetChem spray before we moved in, then found a few on Palomine after we had a flood in the basement (they may have been eggs behind the walls/baseboards). I have never not even once seen a flea on Fagan since he was 4 weeks old even though I flea comb him often to be sure (the kittens all had them when I took them in). His allergy is so bad it can be just one single bite from a flea brought in on someone else's clothing. There are no active fleas (or dead ones cause I have become a clean freak too.... I loathe the little buggers!) in my house but you can't really control what others might bring in on their clothes. :frustrated:

And so far my guests haven't been receptive to the idea of being sprayed for fleas at the door.... :laughing: ;)

Amanda_girl
July 16th, 2007, 03:24 PM
Thanks everyone for all of your responses and advice. I'm so glad I know what this is now.

The vet had no idea what it was before, so I'm going to the office with all of this information printed off plus more!

Thanks again!

Amanda

LacyAdrienne
September 11th, 2007, 11:30 PM
Well i am dealing with something similar with my youngest cat, Bella. She first had a little growth that became infected on her one little 'toe pad'. This was treated with a cortisone shot (i beleive) and some antiseptic cleaner that I was sent home with to clean it out daily. It cleared up nicely! But now a few months later the sore on the paw, on a different paw, has returned.. i have been cleaning it myself and it keeps clearing up and moving to another place on the same paw and when that clears up it appears elsewhere on this paw (not the paw that was originally vet treated). Now just last week I saw a little bump on her bottom lip that gradually got larger. Now I finally think i found out what the problem is!! Based on what i have found online i think its ECG and am wondering if i should do a food change before I make another expensive vet trip.... Any suggestions?

Dracko
September 12th, 2007, 02:17 AM
I have Ginkgo on Orijen and she has very little symptoms now. Just on the back of one leg. I've seen on her where her lip will get big and had the infected paw problem. Lately things have seemed good, though. I do check her body regularly to stay on top of any problems and have my :fingerscr things stay good.

abemmy
December 16th, 2007, 09:27 AM
After reading all the posts with regards to egc I am pretty sure this is what my Abby has. My particular concern is the fact that I just found out the Abby has diabetes. She is in the middle of taking Baytril, she has about 5 more days to go and she is still limping. Does anyone have the same situation? Abby is 8 years old and I am not sure how to proceed. I feed her Iam's weight loss formula dry cat food and Iams wet food. She weights 17 lbs. and for the life of me can't understand why she isn't losing weight. I do have another cat, Emma and a pet conure, Binky. Could Abby's abcesses be from a bird?

I am going to be talking to my vet on Monday to see how we should proceed.

phoozles
January 2nd, 2008, 04:02 PM
I wish could help you regarding your kitty's skin problem, but I can answer you one thing - you said your cat is 17 lbs and is on Iams weight loss and hasn't lost any weight, and I can tell you why.

The same thing was happening in my household - had an 8 year old cat on Iams for a year, feeding as per directions on the bag, and he lost maybe an ounce. Turns out Iams weight loss (or any weight loss foods) are the worst possible foods you can give your cat - because while they lower the fat, they raise the carbs, which your cat can't process.

I've had Jake (my 8 year old) on canned grain free Wellness (either Turkey or Chicken) for a month and a half, and he's already lost at least a pound (haven't officially weighed him, but you can definitely see the difference).
I give him 4/5ths of a can a day (I split the can into 5 and feed him four times a day, leaving the last portion for the next day), and it's working well!

Love4himies
January 5th, 2008, 04:20 PM
Dracko,

How is your kitty doing?

My daughter's cat may have the same thing, she has just changed her food to Orijen and Wellness and was wondering if you have had success in keeping this at bay by changing Ginkgo's food.

She will be taking her kitty to the vet to confirm her diagnosis on her next day off.

Love4himies
January 5th, 2008, 05:43 PM
Hi sweetie, nice to see you joined. Check out the food forums to find out about better cat nutrition.

By the way, krazy4kittens is my daughter.

Dracko
January 5th, 2008, 10:38 PM
Dracko,

How is your kitty doing?

My daughter's cat may have the same thing, she has just changed her food to Orijen and Wellness and was wondering if you have had success in keeping this at bay by changing Ginkgo's food.

She will be taking her kitty to the vet to confirm her diagnosis on her next day off.

Ginkgo is doing so well actually. When I got her I put her on EVO. That helped with the lesions but only moderately. It seems the Orijen has been the food for her. The vet suggested I find a food that doesn't cause any inflammation, etc for her and this seems to be it. There's been no swelling of her lip or anything else either for months. I don't think it is a coincidence as she always had lesions of some sort from the time I got her until the switch. I have also choosen not to immunize her in any way. While she did get the typically ones they do when they are Humane Society kittens I won't be doing any more as I don't think her autoimmune system would do well with them. Given she is an indoor cat and I prefer to use natural therapies as tx for my cats, I feel more comfortable taking this route rather than forcing her body to deal with something that might set off her condition.

The last lesion type things to go away on her were the ones on her hamstring area. I used to feel around there when she would lay with me to check it out. She hated me touching it so their must have obviously been some pain associated with them. Now I can't feel any raised lesions and she will let me touch that area all I want while she's laying around. :thumbs up

Love4himies
January 6th, 2008, 11:35 AM
Thanks, Dracko, I am sure my daughter will let you know what the vet says about her Ginger.

Love4himies
January 14th, 2008, 09:58 AM
Well, I guess my daughter did not update. Her computer is not working very well.

Ginger went to the vet last week and the vet confirmed she has EGC and was giving a steriod shot.

The swelling on the cat's mouth has gone down and krazy4kittens is very pleased so far with the results. Ginger goes back end of Jan for another shot and then it is wait to see if the food change from Iams Weight Control to Orijen and Wellness canned will work. Vet agreed these are two good foods but may want to stay away from chicken & beef proteins (yay for the vet recognizing these two foods :thumbs up) so k4k has purchased some Wellness that does not have those two proteins.

Winston
February 28th, 2008, 07:24 PM
HI there I have to jump in on this one....My moms cat has been diagnosed for Rodent Lip as well...now the vet indicated the food allergy issue and we tried one of the vet foods for a short time...Now he eats Orijen and loves it.

The vets diagnosis was that he could be given a shot but it would most likely bring on diabetes. So with my mom being elderly she could not care for her cat if she had to give it needles..So out of fear we chose another treatment the vet recommended a series of prednisone..Well he has been on it for months now..His pads of his feet cleared up well but his mouth is bad.

My question is did anyone else's vet mention the onset of diabetes.???? ..because I am thinking that we may have to just try the shot? the prednisone cannot be good for him after such a long time??

Cindy

Love4himies
February 29th, 2008, 07:41 AM
HI there I have to jump in on this one....My moms cat has been diagnosed for Rodent Lip as well...now the vet indicated the food allergy issue and we tried one of the vet foods for a short time...Now he eats Orijen and loves it.

The vets diagnosis was that he could be given a shot but it would most likely bring on diabetes. So with my mom being elderly she could not care for her cat if she had to give it needles..So out of fear we chose another treatment the vet recommended a series of prednisone..Well he has been on it for months now..His pads of his feet cleared up well but his mouth is bad.

My question is did anyone else's vet mention the onset of diabetes.???? ..because I am thinking that we may have to just try the shot? the prednisone cannot be good for him after such a long time??

Cindy

Do you know what the other shot was? I thought Pred was the choice steroid to control the immune system from reacting.

Winston
February 29th, 2008, 10:46 AM
It was called Depomedrone...

sugarcatmom
February 29th, 2008, 01:13 PM
It was called Depomedrone...

Do you mean Depo-Medrol? It's also a steriod like prednisone, and all steriods have the potential to cause diabetes. It's more likely with the Depo shot because it's a large amount of steroid all at once. You can't control or fine-tune the dose once it's in the cat's system, whereas with the pred pills, it can be more precisely adjusted to the symptoms. But long-term use of pred isn't ideal either. Here's some info:

Potential Adverse Effects of Inappropriate (potency, dose, route of administration, frequency and/or duration) Corticosteroid Therapy
increased thirst (and in frequency of urination)

suppression of the immune system: increased incidence of infections including skin, urinary tract, respiratory tract

poor wound healing, tendon, ligament and joint abnormalities

dull/dry hair coat or hair loss, dry, thin skin that bruises readily

decreased muscle mass and tone...(weakened abdominal muscles may result in a "pendulous [pot-belly] abdomen"); muscle pain, stiff gait, rigid limbs (may mimic a hip or other joint disease)

panting

vomiting and/or bloody diarrhea, ulcers due to:


a. decrease production of protective gastointestinal tract lining

increased irritation from stomach acid secretion


enlarged liver/impaired liver function

thromboembolus (inappropriate blood clot...can suddently impair blood flow to any organ system with potentially dire consequences)

hypertension (elevated blood pressure)

diabetes

pancreatitis

osteoporosis

changes in genital / reproductive organs

hypothyroidism

behavioral abnormalities including depression, aggression/ rage, mania, hyperactivity

The above adverse affects are most likely with:


excessive dose, frequency or duration of treatment with any corticosteroid

long-acting injectable (repository) corticosteroid treament (duration of effect is not always predictable)

frequent high or intermediate potency injectable, oral or topical corticosteroid preparations (this means that glucocorticoids in topical medication for eyes, ears or skin are also absorbed into the bloodstream and can produce any or all of the undesirable effects described above).



Hate to say it (I know I'm sounding like a broken record), but even though your mom's cat may like Orijen, and it's a better dry than some of the others out there, it's still overprocessed and really not the best option for any cat. Especially one with potential allergy issues. If at all possible, I'd advise finding a simple canned food with one protein source such as By Nature Organics or Innova Evo 95% meat (the latter also has novel protein sources like duck and venison). Ditch the dry.

sugarcatmom
April 23rd, 2008, 11:41 AM
I have her on single protein Natural Balance duck and green pea hard food...Wellness beef and salmon soft food, and Organics turkey. I was trying to eliminate chicken, and grains, because chicken is the most popular allergy for cats who have EG.

Beef and fish are also common cat allergies, so I think your idea to try the novel protein is a good one. Again, I'm really not a fan of dry food, so even though the Natural Balance is grain-free, it would still be a good idea to eliminate that as a variable. Canned Innova EVO 95% duck or venison are good novel protein options with minimal ingredients.

sugarcatmom
April 24th, 2008, 08:29 AM
Hmm...I will look for this Innova, though I feel like I have scoured the aisles of the pet health food store as best I can, and don't recall seeing that.

Here's the store locator for Innova: http://www.naturapet.com/where-to-buy/default.asp Looks like there are a couple places in Kingston that might have it (assuming you're in Kingston, ON and not Kingston, Jamaica :laughing:). If it's not in stock, perhaps they can order some for you (although it would be preferable to find out if your cat liked it first before ordering a whole case).

Natural balance makes a soft version of the duck and green pea, would that be a good alternative if I can't find the Innova?

It would at least be better than the dry version of NB. I think there's also a Venison and Green Pea NB canned, if I'm not mistaken. Canned Nature's Variety Instinct in Lamb, Venison, Duck or Rabbit is another one you could look for: http://www.naturesvariety.com/content.lasso?r=0732403&page=1494&-session=naturesvariety:4492C0A80a5a811DF2JmYh11DFD 9

Good luck with your quest!

Love4himies
April 24th, 2008, 08:57 AM
Thank you! I just found out about the beef and fish a few hours ago. Hard food is no good? Hmm...I will look for this Innova, though I feel like I have scoured the aisles of the pet health food store as best I can, and don't recall seeing that. I will check again. Natural balance makes a soft version of the duck and green pea, would that be a good alternative if I can't find the Innova?

I am pretty sure they don't sell Evo at Global, think that was one of the foods I was previously looking for.

Urban Paws by Walmart I think sells it.

Love4himies
April 24th, 2008, 09:01 AM
Oh, and I don't believe we have seen any pictures of Ginger and Pandora yet, think you got a brand new camera, why not put it to use and entertain us:D.

There is a seperate section in this forum just for pet pictures.

Tarapotamus
April 28th, 2008, 11:44 AM
Hi! I just stumbled upon this while trying to find out more about the food allergies that may cause flare ups in cats that have EGC.

I found out that my oldest cat, Vigo, had EGC when I saw him constantly licking his back feet. Upon a closer inspection, I could see that his tow pads were swollen, red, and some of then cracked open. They weren't pussy, but one foot was cracked so badly that he was tracking a bloody print across the house!

Now, Vigo is FeLuk+ and we have known this since he was a kitten (hes about 1 yr old now) It does not affect him currently, but he was in bad shape when we got him, we got him healthy (and try to keep him that way in hopes the FeLuk will never infect his bones) but when knowing that FeLuk is an immunodeficiency disorder, ANY thing out of the ordinary has to be looked at by our vet. SO, I searched the internet and found a page on EGC, and when I read through it and saw pictures, it was what Vigo had on his feet. It also triggered a memory back to when he had gotten a fat bottom lip, and it was diagnosed as possible allergy to plastic (Vigo loves grocery bags, who doesn't?). So, Vigo went to the vet, I mentioned EGC to her and she consulted with another vet she knew and decided it was possible. So she told me to try giving him Zyrtec. Yes Zyrtec is an allergy med for humans and just recently became available for over-the-counter purchase. She said to give him 5mg twice a day (morn and night) and see if that helps.

To make a long story short, I started giving him the zyrtec (10mg tablet) half in the morning food and half in evening food, and it pretty much cleared up his EGC. Although his lip ALMOST gets fat, or feet ALMOST flare up, it usually goes away the next day. Vigo hates the zyrtec so sometimes he doesn't eat it. But steroids aren't an option for my FeLuk kitty. We are also trying to get foods that don't make him have flare ups so we can get him off the zyrtec. we just switched to California Natural dry food (Herring and Sweet Potatoe) it has no chicken in it! Still looking for a chickenless wet food. I have him on this natural fish soft food right now, its actually pieces of fish in a fravy sauce and they have a few different flavors, but my local pet store is discontinuing it, so I might try to soft food that Cali Natural has. But I saw someone mention earlier in this thread that some fish are bad too? The problem is we have no way of knowing what makes our kities flare up until we try everything. Im hoping that just doing fish only (and not poultry) helps Vigo.


So, I would try the Zyrtec, Im not a vet, but my vet (who is very good, imo) said that there is NO harm in trying. It may make him drowsy (it doesn't for Vigo) but there are no adverse side effects beside that.

Hope your kitties get better!

Love4himies
April 28th, 2008, 11:49 AM
Thanks Tarapotamus, K4K was going to call her vet again if she doesn't come on to post I'll let her know about asking her vet about Zyrtec.

sugarcatmom
April 28th, 2008, 02:10 PM
We are also trying to get foods that don't make him have flare ups so we can get him off the zyrtec. we just switched to California Natural dry food (Herring and Sweet Potatoe) it has no chicken in it!

Might I be so bold as to suggest getting rid of all dry food for your cat? Especially for a cat that is immune-compromised and has allergies, kibble of any kind is really not suitable. You can read more about why dry food is not ideal here: http://www.catinfo.org/

Still looking for a chickenless wet food. I have him on this natural fish soft food right now, its actually pieces of fish in a fravy sauce and they have a few different flavors, but my local pet store is discontinuing it, so I might try to soft food that Cali Natural has. But I saw someone mention earlier in this thread that some fish are bad too? The problem is we have no way of knowing what makes our kities flare up until we try everything. Im hoping that just doing fish only (and not poultry) helps Vigo.

Despite the cliche of fish-loving cats, a steady intake of seafood is actually not a natural feline diet. It does tend to be highly allergenic, among other problems (you can read more here: http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=whyfishisdangerousforcats). The company that makes California Natural (Natura), also makes a line of canned food called Innova Evo 95% meat with novel proteins like duck or venison. If the store you get the C.N. at doesn't have any in stock, perhaps they can order some in for you. Another good canned food is By Nature Organics turkey, if Vigo does okay with turkey. There are no other problematic grains or vegetables in it, just turkey and vitamins. Good luck with your quest!

reader212
June 15th, 2008, 05:22 PM
Hi everyone:

I'm the owner of two naughty but cute cats Honey and Sugarfoot---who are about 14 months old. My beloved Daisy, a nine year calico, passed away last July 30, 2007 with lots of medical problems and I still miss her greatly. Believe it or not I adopted the two sister kittens the day after Daisy passed.

One of them, Sugarfoot (grey shorthair tabby) has the eosinophilic granuloma complex. I didn't know about it until after these sores appeared around her mouth last August about 2 weeks after she was adopted.

The Vets that I have seen are at a loss on how to treat this except with cortisone shots.One of them has said it's the worst he's ever seen. She's been getting treated with steriods like prednisone shots which has me worried about Sugar getting diabetes. The shots work temporarily, but at what price?

Right now after her last bout of shots (done on April 15)---I vowed to try to find something else. because I knew the shots would wear off. These shots make her lethargic and not her old playful self. The possible side effects of these shots are worrisome.

Well, at the beginning of June the sores started appearing again around her mouth from her whiskers to her right eye. I started using a homeopathic remedy Miliary Eczema (5 drops in the mouth every 8 hours). It can even be placed in food --no know side effects. An acquaintance of mine has a cat with the same rodent ulcer problem and she has been treating her cat since January this way.

It's only been about two weeks and there is some definite improvement. The area is still red but it seems to be helping somewhat. Because Sugar's case is so severe, I'm not sure that the eosinophilic granuloma will ever go away completely---but the Miliary Eczema remedy is helping. (There's one for female cats and another for male cats).

I'm also using Vet approved sterilizing pads that you can use on the inflamed area. I'm searching for a Vet approved cream now to treat sore inflamed areas.

I may bring Sugar in to the Vet this week to see if the red inflamed area is infected--and get that treated maybe with antibiotics. But I'm trying to stay away from those shots.

Unless there is a cure, I've also come to the conclusion that she'll probably be on the homeopathic remedy for the rest of her life---as this ulcer will probably still happen but hopefully not as severe as before. (I'll go back to the shots only if it gets really bad).

Hope I've helped someone get more ideas on how to help their cat..

PS The Vet has had Sugar change to Prescription Diet Z/D dry and canned, but I don't think this has done anything to help...Sugarfoot and Honey are on Z/D for good now only because I think it's good for them!

sugarcatmom
June 15th, 2008, 06:39 PM
PS The Vet has had Sugar change to Prescription Diet Z/D dry and canned, but I don't think this has done anything to help...Sugarfoot and Honey are on Z/D for good now only because I think it's good for them!

Sorry to hear about Sugarfoot's problems, and I hope the homeopathic remedy continues to work for her. I do have a question about your kitties diet: what were they eating before the Z/D? The reason I ask is that diet plays such a huge role in so many aspects of feline health that in most cases it should be the first thing to evaluate when something's off-kilter. For starters, cats shouldn't be eating dry food. Shocking, I know, but kibble is filled with inappropriate ingredients for an obligate carnivore, Hill's Z/D being no exception (in fact, Z/D is one of the worst, with brewers rice as the first ingredient, and preservatives like Ethoxyquin and BHA - suspected carcinogens that most other pet food companies have stopped using).

The best thing you could do for both your kitties would be to find a good quality wet food (raw or canned), with little to no grains, no by-products, no food colouring etc. A novel protein source (ie something she hasn't had before, like venison, duck, quail, rabbit....) for Sugarfoot may help if food allergies are the source of her rodent ulcer. If you'd like to read more about how to feed your cats better, check out this link: http://www.catinfo.org/ And please, stop feeding your cats Z/D, especially if it isn't doing anything to help Sugarfoot (love her name, by the way).

reader212
June 15th, 2008, 07:25 PM
When they lived with their foster mom for about 3 months, Honey and Sugar were eating the Science diet canned food. When they moved in with me I tried different foods---and settled on the Green Peas & Duck formula (dry & canned) by Royal Canin for several months as recommended by the Vet.

After several months, the Vet recommended the Z/D food for Sugar, which she and Honey have been on for several months. He said to stay away from cat treats.

What is the best protein based food brand do you recommend? And does she have to have a prescription type food from the Vet?

And the other thing is that Honey & Sugar love grazing on dry food during the day. Is there any special high protein dry food for cats?

Not completely sure, but we also think that her eosinophilic granuloma is from an insect bite(s) when she was a stray kitten. So far changing her diet doesn't seem to do any good at this point in time in getting rid of those ulcers. But if there is something you can recommend both dry and canned, let me know---and I'll give it a try.

reader212
June 15th, 2008, 07:34 PM
Thanks, Sugarcatmom for the link. There's so many good choices of food for cats with protein here on that website---I would not know what exactly to choose. Is there any dry food and canned food you can safely say is OK for Sugar?

sugarcatmom
June 16th, 2008, 08:29 AM
What is the best protein based food brand do you recommend?

Some good ones that I feed my own cat are Wellness (look for the little yellow triangle on the can that says "grain-free"), By Nature Organics, Nature's Variety Instinct, and Innova Evo 95%. The last 2 brands have novel protein flavours like duck, rabbit or venison.

And does she have to have a prescription type food from the Vet?

No, and you'd probably be surprised how little most vets actually know about feline nutrition. Most of these "prescription" diets were formulated to treat disorders that were caused by feeding lousy food in the first place. So hey, here's an idea: Let's feed our cats the way nature intended, instead of just reorganizing a bunch of awful ingredients into yet another highly rendered so-called "food". http://catnutrition.wordpress.com/2008/01/22/dry-food-and-vets/

And the other thing is that Honey & Sugar love grazing on dry food during the day. Is there any special high protein dry food for cats?

Grazing is a natural way for cats to eat (think of them catching several mice, birds, lizards, etc in a day). But it doesn't have to be on dry food. It's perfectly fine to leave canned food out for them. You can add a couple tsps of water to prevent it from drying out, or you can freeze portions of it in an icecube tray and then let it thaw out in their dishes over the course of the day. If they really love canned food and tend to eat it all at once, perhaps an automatic feeder would help space out their portions.

Not completely sure, but we also think that her eosinophilic granuloma is from an insect bite(s) when she was a stray kitten. So far changing her diet doesn't seem to do any good at this point in time in getting rid of those ulcers. But if there is something you can recommend both dry and canned, let me know---and I'll give it a try.

Yup, it's entirely possible that this is caused by factors other than food (such as flea allergy, environmental allergy etc). But since food is such a building block in overall health and a bad diet can upset the whole apple cart, resulting in sensitivities to things the cat should normally be able to handle, I still think providing the best diet possible is a good place to start. And no dry food falls into that category, I'm afraid.

Cathy G
July 17th, 2008, 03:29 PM
Hi I stumbled on this site when I was looking up ECG.
One of my "stray" cats was diagnosed with ECG about 1 1/2 years ago (Dec-06). I took her to the vet in Jan-07 and she was treated with Prednisone tablets and Enrovet injection and I was given some tablets to complete the treatment after I took her back home. Being a "stray" it was a nightmare trying to complete the treatment, so I took her back to the vet in Feb-07, she was given a Depomedrol injection.

The problem cleared up and I thought all was fine, until the problem returned about Jan-08. I put off taking her to the vet.... hoping that the problem would take care of itself.... but it did not... it got worse.

Sometime ago I had "physical condition" and I came across an item on the internet about yogurt and some of its benefits. I tried it and it worked for me. About the sametime I was trying yogurt for my condition, Mercer ( my Siamese/mix) could not keep his nose out of it. I called my vet to get the OK. She said it should be OK in "small" amounts.

The reason I bring this up, is because I decided to experiment with yogurt on my "stray" with the ECG problem. I did not want more medication in her system. Guess what........ It seems to be working!!!!!! I started treating her with YOGURT on 21-Jun-08 and the area has shown a REMARKABLE improvement. I am so pleased with the results.

Ofcourse, I have to see if the benefits will be long term. She LOVES yogurt too and I intend to continue giving her small amounts from time to time.
Does anyone have any facts about yogurt and cats????

reader212
July 21st, 2008, 09:50 PM
That's interesting to hear about yogurt...What kind of yogurt, how much and how often do you give your cat the yogurt?

I might give it a try. I know that since June 2nd (it's now July 21st) I have been using the Natural Homeopathic Remedy, Miliary Exzema which is available under the category of Homeopathics (cats) at the website shop.robbinspetcare.com/cats/homeopathics.html.

So far, it is working well. I give Sugarfoot about 3 drops 3 times a day. This works best with cats that get the sore under their chin & spreads. No more reoccurance of this awful sore. She's nice & energetic---with occasional minimal outbreaks.

Still, I may try the yogurt too.

Cathy G
August 12th, 2008, 02:55 PM
I used a plain, low fat yogurt "Anchor" (1-888-991-5615) first, then switched to a plain, fat free, unsweetened yogurt "La Yogurt" (www.johannafoods.com). The cats seem to prefer "Anchor" yogurt, but eat which ever is given. I am sure another brand can work.

In the first two weeks I gave it once every third day, as I did not know how the cat's system would respond to it. Then I changed to approx.every other day. Now that her skin has cleared up, I try to give her 2-3 days a week.
I give her a full spoon full each time. However, if I see her ( without skipping any days), I give her a little less eachtime over that period. The cat receives no other treatment for the EGC.

Since I started giving her the yogurt (21-Jun-08) the area has cleared up beautifully. If you do give it a try, maybe you should do so after you have ended the current treatment your cat is now on. Also, I would like to know if it has the same effect on your cat.

Love4himies
August 13th, 2008, 11:01 AM
Interesting. I'll let my daughter (krazy4kittens) know about yogurt. Any idea what in the yogurt helps, maybe the probiotics that it contains?

Orange
August 14th, 2008, 12:46 PM
Hi!
My cat also has EGC & looking for natural cure for it.
Yogurt sounds very interesting.
My only concern is that some cat has food allergies against dairy products & I haven't figured out if my cat is one of those kind or not.
But if it seems to work for some cats, it worth a try in the future for my cat too. Please keep it updated :cat:

canine14
August 26th, 2008, 10:57 PM
This is an awesome thread.

I have a five year-old tailless Siamese. She has the worst EGC I have ever seen/heard of. Her entire neck is raw. We have tried everything, including surgery to remove the entire open sore and Ovaban (contraceptive though she is fixed) and nothing helped. I have been looking for natural remedies. I will try the yogurt. Her digestive system is tricky though thanks to Manx Syndrome. I am also interested in the Miliary Eczema.

I will keep everyone posted and I think we need to keep this thread current. I will not condemn my cat to a life of steroid shots and vets seem to be at a loss.

Smokyie
September 8th, 2008, 11:10 PM
Yogurt - it's worth a try.

My cat has had so many depo shots and liquid steroids plus antibiotics for EGC _ I'd have to look at her records to count them all.

One question- is yogurt sufficient for her nutrionally?

I read someplace to keep the cat away from plastics and use glass feeding dishes, so I'm going to try that, too. Hope that helps someone else here with the same problem.

Thanks,
Smokyie

sugarcatmom
September 9th, 2008, 12:16 AM
One question- is yogurt sufficient for her nutrionally?


Not as the mainstay of her diet, but as a supplement it's fine. No more than 10% of her meals.

What does your cat typically eat?

Smokyie
September 9th, 2008, 07:54 AM
I've had her on Purina dry food. My vet is getting at a loss of what to do next.

A couple of weeks ago I had her wound completely cleared up - (she had been dressed in a little romper suit) and on liquid steroid every second day.

As soon as she was out of that she dug at it again and now it's infected.

So, she just got another shot and antibiotic.

May I ask what you feed besides some yogurt?

Thanks for answering.

Smokyie

sugarcatmom
September 9th, 2008, 08:33 AM
I've had her on Purina dry food. My vet is getting at a loss of what to do next.

I can tell you what to do next :D! Get her off the dry food. Find a good quality wet food that DOES NOT come from a grocery store or a vet clinic. A novel protein (something she hasn't had before, like venison or duck or rabbit) might be a good idea, but just changing from poor quality dry to a good canned should really help. Raw would be even better but that takes a fair bit more research unless you can find some of the pre-packaged frozen products like Nature's Variety.

Some of the better canned varieties are Wellness, By Nature Organics, Innova Evo 95%, Nature's Variety Instinct. These last too have some novel protein flavours. Natural Balance Venison & Green Pea or Duck & Green Pea are also acceptable.

Some more info for you about feline nutrition and why kibble is bad for cats: http://www.catinfo.org/

So, she just got another shot and antibiotic.

It's frustrating (but not surprising) that vets don't know how to look for the source of the problem and just keep throwing drugs at it in an attempt to suppress the symptoms. Continual use of steroids and antibiotics is so not good for your poor kitty. Good nutrition is the building block of good health, and many cat's develop over-active immune responses from being fed inappropriate (ie grain-filled, high carb, overly processed, dry) food for their entire lives. So the first thing to do is feed them what they were designed to eat: MEAT! With very little or no plant matter, and at least 60% moisture.

Good luck, and let me know how it goes.

Smokyie
September 9th, 2008, 11:42 AM
Ok, I'm going to town today and see what I can find in the way of a better food. I know all those steroids are not good for her.

I'll let you know how it's going,
thanks.

Smokyie
September 9th, 2008, 07:07 PM
Ok, I got her some canned Iams, Evo and Merrick - I've never heard of the last two brands. None of them contain chicken.

Also, I took the plastic eating/drinking dishes away. I didn't tell her she is really drinking out of a glass planter!

I have been to three veterinarians, one sold me some "Z-D" brand dry food but that didn't seem to help her problem. None of them recommended taking away the dry food.

Thanks for your ideas.

Smokyie

Smokyie
September 22nd, 2008, 04:51 PM
I'm just checking back in to say she is doing pretty well on "California Natural" canned food. It is 9% protein with 78% moisture content.

She hasn't had a flare up since I put her on it about about two weeks ago.

Orange
October 12th, 2008, 07:57 PM
Hi!
Any of the people who is trying yogurt for your kitty has any update?
Please keep posting....hopefully some good news.
Thank you! :cat:

faranya
October 14th, 2008, 10:58 AM
My 11-year-old Tannis (tortoiseshell) has a mild form of this, I suspect. The vet hasn't called it such, but told me she could have a cortisone shot if it got worse. It didn't; the lesions are small and intermittent and she doesn't have the raw areas on her legs.

When I started reading this thread, she had a puffy lower lip - first time that's happened. I immediately switched from my neat little plastic feeding bowls to stainless steel or ceramic. The "lip" went away.

I'm trying my two (Gollum as well) on EVO dry "ancestral diet" and both EVO and Wellness canned food. I was excited the first day because Gollum especially seemed to like the wet food ... but now he's not eating it with much appreciation. And Tannis - well, she is less than impressed. She wants Friskies salmon or tuna, period. When I say "no" she gives me a stony glare and stalks away. I bought Velcote and tried that on her food. No dice. I used a mouth syringe to give it to her orally and she immediately spat it out and threw up in protest.

I'm on a limited budget and can't afford too many more rejections of these pricey foods. But for now, I persevere. And the plastic era is over.

Brenda

Dracko
October 14th, 2008, 11:58 AM
Mine initially liked the EVO and Wellness canned and then rejected it, too.

Ginkgo's symptoms have been so much better of late. No big lip for a long time and the only lesions she has is small ones on her hamstring area. I know they must not feel great as she doesn't like me to touch them. When I first got her the lesions on her neck were pretty bad and they have been non-existent for almost a year and a half now. :thumbs up

For me I try to keep her life as stress free as possible, keep the diet clean and keep her immune system strong.