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Halti & Leash Aggression

luckypenny
July 6th, 2007, 07:56 PM
Anybody have any experience with using a Halti with a dog with leash/barrier aggression? We started getting Lucky and Penny used to the Halti. Penny's coming along fine but it's taking Lucky a longer time to adjust.

Now Penny's the one who's leash aggressive and we've been working very hard with 'redirected attention' (when other dogs are at a safe distance) and 'u-turns' when other dogs appear within the safety zone. I'm aware that this can take a long time and am not looking to use the Halti as a magic cure. I have, however, decided to use it because when the dogs do pull and lunge, I can no longer physically hold on to them (because of serious back problems) without hurting myself.

Today was the first day I was successfully able to walk Penny for 30 minutes without her making a fuss over the Halti. What I'm concerned about is what would happen if she lunges while wearing it? It hasn't occurred yet but I'm a little nervous about her lunging and hurting herself.

rainbow
July 6th, 2007, 08:28 PM
That's the one thing I do not like about the Halti.....it pulls the dog's head to the side. :sad: I used the Gentle Leader on Logan (our husky) as he was a serious puller. It works the same way as the Halti and I was always afraid of hurting his neck when he lunged. I switched to the Newtrix Easyway Headcollar (www.newtrix.ca) and we both liked it alot better. It pulls the dog from the back of the neck instead of to the side. :thumbs up

I also bought another one for Chase (our yellow hyperactive lab) and it really helps. I also have back issues and would never be able to walk him without it. :o

hazelrunpack
July 6th, 2007, 08:57 PM
I've never seen one of those before, rainbow. Right now we don't walk the dogs on leash at all (except in and out of the vet's office) but I've been contemplating (if it ever cools off enough, anyway :frustrated:) starting them on short walks...more for my benefit than theirs...:o hazel's joints aren't what they used to be, either, so if I'm gonna start walkin' 'em, I'm gonna need something like a newtrix... :thumbs up Thanks for the head-up!

rainbow
July 6th, 2007, 08:59 PM
You gonna walk all seven at once? :eek:

mummummum
July 6th, 2007, 09:10 PM
If so Hazel, we demand a video !

I have seen Newtrix in action and would recommend it over the Gentle Leader. It also seems to bother the dogs less ~ I have permanent red patches on the inside of my knees from doggies rubbing they Gentle Leader'ed shnozzes.:eek: :laughing:

hazelrunpack
July 6th, 2007, 09:16 PM
You gonna walk all seven at once? :eek:

:eek:

http://foolstown.com/sm/obm.gif

heaven's no! I was thinking maybe one (or less :p) at a time. :laughing:

It would be hard to get video of hazel walkin' all 7 at a time because at that point her hands would be too full to hold the camera!! :p :laughing:

hazelrunpack
July 6th, 2007, 09:19 PM
I remember we used a gentle leader on one of the dogs... it was right after they came out, but I can't remember which dog it was...maybe Evan. It worked okay, but I never entirely trusted it--it just felt...insecure somehow...like he'd be able to back out of it or something. He never did, but it just didn't feel right to me. :shrug: The newtrix looks more secure to me.

luckypenny
July 6th, 2007, 09:47 PM
I checked out the website (thanks rainbow) and it does look more secure, not to mention more comfortable as well. I tried to order a couple off the site but keep getting an error message :sad: .

Has either of your dogs ever lunged while wearing it though?

Hazelrunpack, when I finally get my hands on it and master how to use it, I'll be more than happy to come demonstrate :D . Or, I'll let you try with all 7 while I take a video of it :laughing:

Smiley14
July 6th, 2007, 10:06 PM
As I have a serious escape artist on my hands with about 15 harnesses and halters piled up in the closet, I know I'm in the minority here, but I love the Gentle Leader over anything else. It's the only one he hasn't been able to get out of, including the halti and easyway. But I know that is pretty unsual! I don't know why, but for my escape artist, the GL is the only one I trust completely. The Sporn is my second favorite for harnesses, but it is pretty ugly looking. I know not everyone can use the GL or the Sporn because of neck concerns, but they can definitely work for some dogs like my Petey.

And in my ever growing pursuit of the perfect harness, I actually just got a new one from Trixie and Peanut in the mail today. It's a normal body harness, but it's got cool stripes and looks so much more attractive than the ugly Sporn I use for long trips. Trying to find a "prettier" one to use for an upcoming trip. I don't like to use the GL when he's going to be living in his harness for hours on end. I use it mostly for everyday walks and for vet and store visits. He is calm and obedient as can be on his GL. :) But it's not the most comfortable for long trips, so my hunt continues. :D I'm planning to test this new one out this weekend.

ETA: Just to clarify, it's the orignal GL head halter harness that I love, not their new body harness. I have two of their new body harnesses (trying out different sizes) and HATED them! The buckles kept slipping and he got right ouf them without any effort at all. The head halter is meant to be fitted very tightly. I see so many of them on improperly, and that is when they can escape. When fitted on the proper way, they cannot escape and it curbs the lunging, so it's not even an issue on walks. That's been my experience at least! But anyway, I wouldn't recommend anyone try the GL body harness. That one was just pathetic! My trainer has had bad luck with it too.

Frenchy
July 6th, 2007, 10:14 PM
Spike choke collars LP , that's the way to go :laughing:

For those who don't know me , I was just kidding :p

Or was I ? :evil:

mummummum
July 6th, 2007, 10:23 PM
fyi....it's not just neck concerns, the Halti and the gentle leader both, because of their design could inflict shnozz problems if the dog is "wrenched".

luckypenny
July 6th, 2007, 10:34 PM
fyi....it's not just neck concerns, the Halti and the gentle leader both, because of their design could inflict shnozz problems if the dog is "wrenched".

I certainly would not be using any corrections. Do you think the Newtrix could cause damage as well if they lunged? This is my main concern, that they could get hurt.

Smiley14
July 6th, 2007, 10:38 PM
fyi....it's not just neck concerns, the Halti and the gentle leader both, because of their design could inflict shnozz problems if the dog is "wrenched".

Yep, like I said, I know I'm in the minority. :) All I know is that it's the only one that worked for me and I have never had any wrenching or lunging problems with it with any of the three dogs I've used it on (with dogs that were lungers and pullers before) because I was fortunate to be trained by a leading behavorist in its proper fitting and use. Its design is meant to calm the dog and prevent those kind of behaviors before they even start. It was the only way I could walk my fearful aggressive dog in public, but only after I had the proper training. Like I said, I see it being used improperly fitted and used all the time and that is when the dangers or problems can occur. But I'm very aware I'm in the total minority here, so forgive my soapbox. :)

Frenchy, LOL!

breeze
July 6th, 2007, 10:42 PM
I had a halti and now switched to the newtrix. I find I have more controll with the newtrix also. Bree still lunges not as much and can not ecape as easy as the halti when fitted properly I am able to stop her much better with the newtrix when she trys to lunge

luckypenny
July 6th, 2007, 10:53 PM
... Its design is meant to calm the dog and prevent those kind of behaviors before they even start. It was the only way I could walk my fearful aggressive dog in public, but only after I had the proper training. Like I said, I see it being used improperly fitted and used all the time and that is when the dangers or problems can occur.

That's what I was wondering as well. Will it prevent a dog from lunging in the first place. I'm just afraid of "what if?" We did see 2 dogs while it was Lucky's turn this evening and he didn't pull/lunge at all (he does it because he just really wants to greet the other dog). He was focussed on them and whined but I think he was a little too busy trying to figure out how to get it off. Boy, was he frustrated. When I walked Penny though, we didn't see any other dogs.

I've seen other people use them so inappropriately, it makes me cringe. I had to tell a woman at the vet clinic once to stop yanking on it and yelling at her dog. It was making him so incredibly anxious :sad: .

Smiley14
July 6th, 2007, 11:03 PM
I think that's the intention of most of these collars. The GL is meant to be a training collar, although I use it all the time. But that's the key, training. With training and when used the right way, yes, you can prevent the jumping or lunging before it even happens because YOU are in complete control the entire time. The early models were sold with only a 3-4 foot leash and that's part of the training, from the length of the leash, the way it's held, the way you walk your dog with it, etc. It's meant to be used in conjunction with training and behavorial commands so that your dog can't or won't even lunge in the first place. Unfortunately, they are rarely sold with the original training DVD's anymore and even a lot of trainers out there haven't been trained on their proper use, let alone pet store clerks who "teach" customers how to put them on and use them. So you get the misuse which can lead to the problems. Very unfotunate. They almost should only be sold by behavorists who have been properly trained in their use and who can then teach that knowledge as well.

The Easyway is better in design in that there is less risk of injury when misused, but for some, like my dog, he can get out of it too easily and it didn't work. But I do know it works for a lot of other people. I really do believe a lot of it is testing and training, to see what works best for your dog and your situation.

rainbow
July 6th, 2007, 11:55 PM
The Easyway is better in design in that there is less risk of injury when misused, but for some, like my dog, he can get out of it too easily and it didn't work.

How did Petey manage to get out of it when it has a safety clasp that you hook onto his collar so he can't pull it off? :confused:

I totally agree that it is a training device. I no longer have to use it with my husky......just my hyper lab. :)

luckypenny
July 7th, 2007, 12:02 AM
How did Petey manage to get out of it when it has a safety clasp that you hook onto his collar so he can't pull it off? :confused:

Actually, Lucky managed to somehow pull the Halti off his nose as well. I attached a second leash to his regular collar just in case, good thing I did. He's ok with it for a few minutes, then goes nuts trying to get it off until I manage to distract him, then he struggles with it again. We've used lots of treats and praise while he had it on in the house and he seemed to finally get used to it which is why I wanted to try walking them with it today. I think I've got the technique down pretty alright, it's just a matter of them getting used to it.

rainbow
July 7th, 2007, 12:03 AM
I certainly would not be using any corrections. Do you think the Newtrix could cause damage as well if they lunged? This is my main concern, that they could get hurt.

LP, my lab still lunges if he sees a cat, squirrel or marmot running across the road. I usually see it first and tell him "no" and gently pull on the leash which tightens the Newtrix behind his neck and it is enough to stop him before he lunges. There have been a few times that he has seen a critter first and lunged and I have pulled harder to control him. It has not hurt him at all but has definitely helped me. :o

rainbow
July 7th, 2007, 12:08 AM
Actually, Lucky managed to somehow pull the Halti off his nose as well. I attached a second leash to his regular collar just in case, good thing I did. He's ok with it for a few minutes, then goes nuts trying to get it off until I manage to distract him, then he struggles with it again. We've used lots of treats and praise while he had it on in the house and he seemed to finally get used to it which is why I wanted to try walking them with it today. I think I've got the technique down pretty alright, it's just a matter of them getting used to it.

Does the Halti have a safety clasp that attaches to the collar so they can't pull it off? Logan hated the Gentle Leader and fought all the time when he had to wear it. When I switched to the Newtrix he didn't do that. Don't know if it was because it was more comfortable for him or because he was a bit older. :shrug:

luckypenny
July 7th, 2007, 12:33 AM
Does the Halti have a safety clasp that attaches to the collar so they can't pull it off? Logan hated the Gentle Leader and fought all the time when he had to wear it. When I switched to the Newtrix he didn't do that. Don't know if it was because it was more comfortable for him or because he was a bit older. :shrug:

Yes, it does but it doesn't stop him from using his paws to pull it off his nose. It's adjusted properly but he struggles so hard he manages to get it off. The Newtrix does look much more comfortable. I'll call the 1-800 # from the website on Monday. I've never seen it in pet supply stores around here.

I'll still be continuing with the training of course, I just need a little help with my back before I'm unable to walk them at all. Penny walks wonderfully on a regular leash and collar, we just have problems when she sees another dog too close by. Lucky on the other hand pulls all the time and totally loses control if he sees a rabbit or squirrel :frustrated: . There are times when he's not too bad and a "leave it" will work but other times, I can't sleep at night with the pain when either one has lunged after something and I didn't see it first. I'll definitely be trying the Newtrix next.

Smiley14
July 7th, 2007, 12:52 AM
How did Petey manage to get out of it when it has a safety clasp that you hook onto his collar so he can't pull it off? :confused:

I totally agree that it is a training device. I no longer have to use it with my husky......just my hyper lab. :)

As is typical of GSP's, Petey's neck is bigger than his head. A little wiggle and off he goes running bare naked while I'm left standing holding his collar and harness and leash in a panic. It's happened to me way to many times, so I am VERY careful to fully test out any and all harnesses now and never use his collar only at any time. He startles very easily and is a runner and an escape artist. Veryyyy bad combination! :eek: I've finally managed to outsmart him with the GL and Sporn. Those are the only two he hasn't escaped from yet. I'll test this new harness this weekend and see how it does. :)

Smiley14
July 7th, 2007, 12:56 AM
Yes, it does but it doesn't stop him from using his paws to pull it off his nose. It's adjusted properly but he struggles so hard he manages to get it off. The Newtrix does look much more comfortable. I'll call the 1-800 # from the website on Monday. I've never seen it in pet supply stores around here.

I'll still be continuing with the training of course, I just need a little help with my back before I'm unable to walk them at all. Penny walks wonderfully on a regular leash and collar, we just have problems when she sees another dog too close by. Lucky on the other hand pulls all the time and totally loses control if he sees a rabbit or squirrel :frustrated: . There are times when he's not too bad and a "leave it" will work but other times, I can't sleep at night with the pain when either one has lunged after something and I didn't see it first. I'll definitely be trying the Newtrix next.

Good luck!!!!!!!! You'll find the right one for you, I just know it! :thumbs up

luckypenny
July 7th, 2007, 01:01 AM
Good luck!!!!!!!! You'll find the right one for you, I just know it! :thumbs up

I should hope so, I've already spent a small fortune :frustrated: :laughing: . We'll get it eventually :fingerscr .

I tried the Sporn as well but Lucky still pulled very hard and he was left with rashes under his front legs. Any type of harness just makes him pull even harder. Maybe he has Husky in him too :shrug: . We still haven't been able to figure out what he is (other than my furry lovebug :cloud9: of course).

Smiley14
July 7th, 2007, 01:06 AM
I should hope so, I've already spent a small fortune :frustrated: :laughing: . We'll get it eventually :fingerscr .

I tried the Sporn as well but Lucky still pulled very hard and he was left with rashes under his front legs. Any type of harness just makes him pull even harder. Maybe he has Husky in him too :shrug: . We still haven't been able to figure out what he is (other than my furry lovebug :cloud9: of course).

Oh, I hear your pain! :laughing: I wouldn't recommend the Sporn for pulling either. I was only able to use it on Petey once I finally taught him some decent leash manners. I like it for longer outings though as it's more comfortable than the GL for all day things. It doesn't leave any marks and he doesn't even seem to notice he's wearing it. But the thing is so ugly, I still keep trying out new ones in the hopes I'll someday find one that is both attractive and escape-proof! :rolleyes:

Sounds like you're trying all the right stuff! I like the head collars better for pulling/lunge training too. We should have a garage sale with all our piles of harnesses. :laughing:

rainbow
July 7th, 2007, 01:08 AM
Yes, it does but it doesn't stop him from using his paws to pull it off his nose. It's adjusted properly but he struggles so hard he manages to get it off. The Newtrix does look much more comfortable. I'll call the 1-800 # from the website on Monday. I've never seen it in pet supply stores around here.

I'll still be continuing with the training of course, I just need a little help with my back before I'm unable to walk them at all. Penny walks wonderfully on a regular leash and collar, we just have problems when she sees another dog too close by. Lucky on the other hand pulls all the time and totally loses control if he sees a rabbit or squirrel :frustrated: . There are times when he's not too bad and a "leave it" will work but other times, I can't sleep at night with the pain when either one has lunged after something and I didn't see it first. I'll definitely be trying the Newtrix next.

Is Brossard close to Montreal? Technodoll could get the Newtrix at her pet store. They used to sell it here at the pets.ca store but I just checked and don't see it. :shrug:

Lucky sounds a lot like my Chase. :frustrated: :crazy:

luckypenny
July 7th, 2007, 01:24 AM
Yes, Brossard is just on the other side of the bridge. I think I work near where Technodoll lives. I'll try to get in touch with her.

Other than being a total nut job on leash, he's the sweetest, most affectionate pooch in the house. Still a little anxious but just a wonderful dog otherwise. Penny too; indoors, she's an absolute doll. Sounds like she'll eat strangers up at the door, but once inside, she's so happy greeting them as long as we're with her.

But the walking :o , boy, it's not easy.

rainbow
July 7th, 2007, 01:46 AM
Same here. Same here. :D :crazy:

mummummum
July 7th, 2007, 05:39 AM
You might want to chage your leash as well. Depending on the site of your back problems, you might want to find a leash that you can connect around your hips, waist or over your shoulder (s). I can do that with mine (Smoochy-Poochy) because it has grommets along the lead and snap hooks at both ends.

luckypenny
July 7th, 2007, 11:35 AM
You might want to chage your leash as well. Depending on the site of your back problems, you might want to find a leash that you can connect around your hips, waist or over your shoulder (s). I can do that with mine (Smoochy-Poochy) because it has grommets along the lead and snap hooks at both ends.

Thanks :) , I'll look look into that too.

TeriM
July 8th, 2007, 12:54 AM
OK, I'm late to the conversation but wanted to say that I have recently starting using the halti with Lucy to treat leash aggression issues. She definately doesn't need it for pulling but it has made a HUGE difference in our encounters with other dogs on leash. I just shorten up a little bit and she trots right on by with maybe just a little growl now.

I bought a newtrix for Riley but I really can't seem to get him to tolerate anything on his face :frustrated: so I've switched back to the body harness thing. I seem to have a real issue with the halti's and the newtrix riding up towards his eyes, so I'm pretty much giving up on that concept now. I was originally using a sensation harness but he managed to chew through it so I recently bought one on the gentle walker types but needed to buy the extra large and have the top part shortened (by shoe cobbler) so that it fits him right.

rainbow
July 8th, 2007, 01:16 AM
I read somewhere that Newtrix is coming out with a harness but now I caqn't find where I read it. :o

rainbow
July 8th, 2007, 01:21 AM
Well, silly me....I didn't look hard enough. :o

From the www.netrix.ca website:

Dogs with existing cervical vertebral neck disease should not use the NewTrix easyway collar, or any collar and leash that may put strain on the neck. We recommend the NewTrix easyway harness, coming this year, for these dogs.

TeriM
July 8th, 2007, 01:26 AM
I actually emailed them a few months back asking about it but they never responded to me :sad: .

growler~GateKeeper
July 8th, 2007, 03:51 AM
Yep, like I said, I know I'm in the minority. :) All I know is that it's the only one that worked for me and I have never had any wrenching or lunging problems with it with any of the three dogs I've used it on (with dogs that were lungers and pullers before).........
............ It was the only way I could walk my fearful aggressive dog in public,

Just checked in on this one & wanted to related my use of the Halti w/Cally Dal x Lab :rip:. When I got him he was 6yrs, training was inconsistent, not properly socialized, had been attacked as a puppy therefore dog aggressive and had not been walked consistently on-leash, so he would pull till he choked himself gasping for air.
When I got the Halti & put it on him the first time I did it as we were heading out for a walk, he learned very quickly not to pull because his head came back to me (not so much fun when he's trying to pee on every tree he sees:D ) & that he wouldn't go for a walk w/out it. He was never a lunger unless there was a dog trying to attack us though.
I found it to be great with the bones/garbage on the streets too because it closes their mouths, Cally was always trying to eat everything.
It also allowed me to redirected his attention elsewhere when passing dogs so he wasn't trying to go after them. So funny to see people w/ regular collars their friendly dog going crazy pulling wanting to say hi, and my dog aggressive boy calmly passing looking like he's way better behaved:laughing:.
Personally I feel better/more comfortable walking a dog w/ a Halti.

A side note to this too, Cally & I were attacked by an off leash Rotti (who ran out of a fenced school field & across the street) her owner stood by & did nothing (the owner of a dog she was playing with helped me) while I held Cally as close to & behind me as possible I pulled the leash in very short so he couldn't lunge while she attacked. He did get bit on the cheek & tail (needed Vet attention), I was grabbed & shook by the arm leaving 2 scars about 1/2 inch each one on either side of my elbow (& a trip to the ER). Sorry but I never asked about the other dog because I don't think she was bit that bad. I blame the owner not the dog. Looking back I think the Halti helped to not escalated things, if Cally was able to bite back any more than he did I wouldn't have been able to separate them. And stopping a dog fight w/out having full head control is near impossible.

And when used upsidedown makes a harness for Duffy :cat: :D

Crazy_Caper
July 14th, 2007, 11:46 PM
We have our dog about a week and she is a puller when on a traditional collar. I tried a halti style knock off that was too big which caused her to try to remove it. My vet recommended a GL but I was looking for a more cost effective alternative, the Halti. I used it for the first time today and was amazed at how quickly it stopped her from pulling. She does not try to take the halti off as much as she did with the one that was too big, and I think a few times of use she will get used to it.

Crazy Caper (lucy)