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german shepherd

heidiho
May 4th, 2004, 05:08 PM
Ok! I HAVE NO FURNITURE,SO I HAVE BEEN LAYING ON FLOOR ON MY SHEETS TO WATCH TV.LAST NIGHT I WAS READING A MAGAZINE AND ME GERMNA SHEPHERD{4 MONTHS OLD]WAS EATING HIS BONE,GOT UP TO GOT HE BATHROOM WAS GONE LESS THEN A MINUTE WHEN I CAME BACK HE PEED RIGHT WHERE I LAY ON THE SHEETS,WHY?????????? HE KNOWS TO GO TO THE DOOR WHEN HE HAS TO GO POTTY,IS HOUSEBROKEN//// ALSO GROWLS AT ME IF I TRY TO TAKE HIS FOOD WHILE HE IS EATING... HELP :eek: :eek:

cmt489
May 4th, 2004, 05:19 PM
In my humble opinion, puppy is testing boundaries to see who will be alpha. Oliver used to do this with my ex. He understood that I was alpha to him but he decided to have a pissing contest - literally - with my ex over who would be alpha male (seeing as his nemesis is my ex, guess he won didn't he - LOL!! :D ) I actually witnessed him pee on my ex's side of the bed twice (not mine)! He would also pee right in front of him in the hallway even though housetrained.

Perhaps I should listen to Oliver's opinion on any men I bring home in the future... He obviously knows better than I do ...:rolleyes:

Michelle

Bill & Bob
May 4th, 2004, 05:20 PM
Well, the dog is pretty young... If I was the dog, I'd sure be wondering why you were sleeping on the floor too. Seriously, I'm wondering if he thought the blanket was his bed rather than yours? He's a male, and I know that male's like to pee on stuff for marking territory. Even inside they'll do that.

If he growls at you when you touch his food bowl, I'd say that you've got some dominance issues to deal with. That would explain the peeing on the blankie too. He wants the bed and is marking it for his own. What happened when you picked up the blanket off the floor. Did he growl at that?

If so, you need to assert yourself as the boss of the house before he takes over. He's at a good age to learn right now too. Shepherds love to learn that stuff and I've found mine likes to know his place in the pack order.

Around the house, Bob knows that I'm the boss. I can take his food, bones, toys, whatever I want, whether he's playing with them or not. I can rummage around in his mouth to look at his teeth and he doesn't say a word. Flip him on his back to look around on the underbelly and no problems.

Now if I could only teach him not to run over to grumpy old men with little dogs in the park and get them started yelling at him that would be great.

heidiho
May 4th, 2004, 05:28 PM
yeah,i know i just got my own place so iam slowly getting furniture.i can take bones,toys put my hand in his mouth all of that,he only growls if i touch his food bowl....i brush his teeth also..And when we go int he car when i stop he has to be the first one out of the car,what should i do about that,same thing when i take him to the front door for a walk???? Is a male/...

Bill & Bob
May 4th, 2004, 05:36 PM
First of all, good luck with the furniture. When I first moved out, I went to the local thrift store and went nuts. Outfitted the whole place for under $140! After that, you can get nicer stuff as you go along. Or, as I have done, replace it all with disposable IKEA furniture. Yeesh.

Hmm, that's interesting about the food bowl. He lets you take toys, bones and everything else away, including brushing his teeth, but won't let you touch the food bowl. Well, you got me there, but I know that the food bowl is a major hotspot for dogs.

As for the getting out of the car first, and going through doors first, that's totally a dominance thing. I make Bob sit five feet from the door to the house when we leave. I go out first and then he can follow. I read it in a book somewhere that it's a dominance thing.

You need to start wearing the A on your team. Here's an article I read that helped me out in the beginning.
http://www.sonic.net/~cdlcruz/GPCC/library/alpha.htm

heidiho
May 4th, 2004, 05:42 PM
Yeah.i dont get it either,loves me to brush his teeth...take his toys right out of his mouth...but cant mess with his food when eating,how do i do that though without getting bit.. :D

mona_b
May 4th, 2004, 05:57 PM
When Yukon was that age he did grawl at me when I was near his dish.I would right away give him a stern "NO".When he stopped,I would praise him and rub his neck...I did this a few times..Then I tried to take his bowl away while he was eating.It was a bit of a test.He growled again.Stern "NO" again.He stopped.I praised him and as I was slowly putting the bowl down,I was rubbing the back of his neck..After that I had no problems at all.With Tron,I had no problem...And they are both GSD's.

As for the car and door,he needs to be taught the "sit" "stay" command..It will make things so much easier for you.... :)

heidiho
May 4th, 2004, 05:59 PM
He does know sit and stay,but he gets so excited when i stop the car,he just will not sit while i open the door and get out...the food thing i have tried petting him while he eats he gets real stiff ears go down then he turns his neck and then growls,i just know i am gonna get bit one of these days,do i even mess with the food thing??

mona_b
May 4th, 2004, 06:21 PM
Are you giving him a stern "NO" when he growls?....Also,are you talking to him while you are petting him?....Don't give up on the this.If you do,it will get worse when he is older.And it may not be a pretty site....

For the car.When you stop,don't get out right away.Get him to sit and stay.Then get out.Or what you can do,have the leash tied to the back of the passenger side,or yours.Then when you open the back door,get him to sit and stay,or teach him "wait"...But you must remember one thing,LOTS of praise right away when he does it right.This is the way he will learn.He wants to please you.

As for the peeing part,I have no advise.I never went through that...

Other then Yukongrowling when it came to his food dish,wish didn't last long,they were both easy to train.And I had them both at 3 months old.

mona_b
May 4th, 2004, 06:22 PM
One more thing.When he does stop growling,praise right away..... :D

heidiho
May 4th, 2004, 06:32 PM
he is very stubborn,yeah when he growls i say no,the other night i took him by the scruff of his neck and said no when i did he peed,what does that mean??? in the car i say damien sit he just wont,i think what i need is more patience,i will just sit in the car as long as it takes for him to,same with at hone when we go out for a walk,he has to be first out the door./..

Lucky Rescue
May 4th, 2004, 06:34 PM
Here is a link for you. If you do this consistantly, it should teach your dog who is in charge without any harshness or punishments.
Alpha Boot Camp (http://www.sonic.net/~cdlcruz/GPCC/library/alpha.htm)

in the car i say damien sit he just wont,

Does he really know what "sit" means? I suggest you take your dog to obedience school, so you can learn how to train him.

heidiho
May 4th, 2004, 06:37 PM
Someone told me about that,i am gonna try it tonight,my dog is very stubborn and strong willed this will not be easy,cant believe how smart gs are//

heidiho
May 4th, 2004, 06:39 PM
So i take it,i shouldnt wack my dog in the face when he growls or yell loud because i have ,i just get so mad i start yelling.. :mad: :mad:

melanie
May 4th, 2004, 06:48 PM
i love GSD, they are such cheeky little buggers arent they?? i to have a GSD and funnily enough, when i got her i had not a stick of furniture, or many blankets. when we met it was a cold winter and it turned into the best winter of our lives, not enough blankets and no heating so we decided to sleep together (on a big pile of cloths for a matress), she slept on my chest till she got to big after that we just snuggled. now i always take her camping, she is like a walking hot water bottle.
anywho, when she was a pup she did the same thing. and we have a lot of children visit us so any form of dominance over food is not acceptable. what i did was this- when she was eating i would allow her to have half the meal and then i would remove the bowl, if she growled she got a stern 'NO' and i kept the bowl for a few secounds and then gave it back. if she didnt growl i would take the bowl offering lots of pats and praise. i again keep the bowl for a few secounds and then give it back with heaps of praise. i didnt always hold the bowl when removed, i would sometimes sit it on a bench.
this sort of dominance is not on and you are on the right track to fixing it before it becomes a serious problem. but be consistant and never give in or let dog win you are top dog and he needs to understand that.
before you know it you will have lots of furniture and will be giving it away, just takes time and a little patience. good luck with it all :D :D :D

heidiho
May 4th, 2004, 06:50 PM
Yeah i love him more than anything in this world,but what if i go for the food bowl and he bites because as i do this food thing it is not getting better.. :confused:

heidiho
May 4th, 2004, 06:55 PM
Here is exactly how it goes down,i put his food down,start petting him,his whole body stiffens up,ears go down,he turns his neck to look at me then growls,i just know i am gonna get bit... :( :(

Luba
May 4th, 2004, 07:13 PM
I wish I had a dollar for every time someone went to the Alpha Boot Camp page cause u referred them LR

I'd be richola! It's a great site.

heidiho
May 4th, 2004, 07:19 PM
Lets hope it works///

melanie
May 4th, 2004, 07:23 PM
you get angry with him, get real angry, make him really understand he has done really wrong and really tell him so. you be really brave (he can sense fear), remember he is still small enough for you to physically dominate him, so if he tries to bite i would give him a shove over or a whack (i do not support beating dogs but my god, i have wacked my dog once or twice before, she is big and could be really dangerous and i will not take her crap, so if anyone wants to hound me on hurting my dog, go ahead, i have never beaten her or hurt her, i only dominate her) and drag him to the corner make him drop there (even if you physically force him to the ground). make him stay there. whilst you are doing this make sure you are extremely stern with him, in both your voice and posture. stare that little bugger in the eye and do not look away till he does, i always do this when she is naughty as my way of makeing her understand she has been dominated. keep him in the corner for a while. about 15 minutes later (when you calm down and coan look at him again) give him back the food, and try again. and in all other aspects of his day, never let him get away with ANYTHING!! biting top dog is not acceptable and top dogs must bite back and confirm their dominance. you must be firm and strong at all times, our dogs can be potentially very dangerous to others and you, you do not want to end up with a broken heart and neither does he., it may make you feel like a bit of an ogre, but for your happioness and his he must be extrememly well controlled. you will not have a happy life if he is not, it wiull just make you stressed and him also. if you are tough on him he will catch on fast, GSD are very smart and never doubt that, they will try to put one over on you when any opertunity presents itself, so keep on him.
you must be really tough on this fellow, he is really pushing boundaries and as the top dog you are not going to let him get away with it ever. and when you are settled maybe you should start dog school, he is the perfect age and it will help emensly and you will learn so much about home training and have alot of fun together, also get him desexed asap as that will make alot of difference to.
YOU BE TOUGH and persistant and it will happen. let us know how you go.good luck with it ;)

heidiho
May 4th, 2004, 07:26 PM
I agree with you ,that was agreat response i do wack him when needed,he is VERY,VERY smart.He learned sit in amatter of minutes,stay took about 1/2 an hour..So tonight when i put the food down i will pet him like i have been then try to pick up bowl,i just know he is gonna try to bite,then what??

heidiho
May 4th, 2004, 07:30 PM
Also,after i take the food the first time{cause i know he is gonna growl] after the 10 minutes when i give it back do i try and gwt it again,or wait til next time..Also isnt this confusing for him,like why am i taking his food when he has done nothingwrong,i mean he doesnt know i am trying to train him,he is just minding his own business eating then i take it from him for no reason,isnt that confusing to him??

heidiho
May 4th, 2004, 07:42 PM
Ok!! Getting ready to go home,does anyone have any replys to the last two things,before i get bit//

melanie
May 4th, 2004, 07:50 PM
also try desensitising the bowl, just touch it ever now and again when you walk past when he is eating, and i would put a snack in it occassionally doing the same thing, just to reinforce.
no it isnt confusing them, he needs to understand that you are not a threat to his food, he will learn that he can get the food back by cooperating. as long as you are firm he will understand it is not an unpleasent experinece. there are various reasons for removing his food as you know, it may not happen for years but when it is needed you will be glad you didnt let him win. he needs to learn that as top dog you can have what ever you like and he must submit.. in the wild he would have eaten after top dog ans would have had to submit if the top dog said so, if he is allowed to dominate in the food area then he is dominating in the highest of relms, food is a life giving source and he is seeing it as if he has top proirity to it over you.
dont keep his food for 10 minutes unless he tries to bit and you have to get angry, just 1 minute is enough.
and if he bites that is when you get angry, it doesnt matter what the situation he needs to learn that biting is NEVER acceptable. and never be scared when he growles, he is still little enough for you to grab his mouth and physically dominate him. if he is naughty show him that you have a temper, give him a scare if need be. if he bites you it most likly wouldnt be too bad as he is still littleish so your not going to die or anything, and if he bites follow above advice, and let him know who boss is.
when you remove the bowl come in from a side on view so he can see you, give him a pat on the way in making sure not to sneak up on him, be a bit noisy, if it is just a growl, stern no, food away 1 minute and food given back, with a stern good boy. do it once a feed if he does not have any bad reactions like biting, then you may have to do it twice every now and again. when he is pretty good when you take food away lots of pats and praise. he sounds like a cheeky little fellow, arent they just so cute...
let us know how you go, and dont be afraid of him, if he bites it will just be an opertunirty for a lesson and it wont kill you or anything, he is only 4 months old so still a baby. ;) ;)

Lucky Rescue
May 4th, 2004, 07:55 PM
Anyone wacking a dog in the face should be prepared to be bitten, and deserve it!

Food bowl aggression is one of the easier problems to fix. Here's what I did with a dog who had this problem:

Put down his bowl and walk away.
He starts eating. You walk past his bowl and drop something really great into it (hot dog, smoked turkey) and keep walking. Whatever you drop in must be fantastic, and he must get it no other time.

Gradually stop next to his bowl and drop the treat in. When he is o.k. with that, you can bend over to drop it in.

You get the message. Eventually you will be able to put your hand in his bowl or pick it up while he is eating, because he knows that means good things will happen!

If you take away his bowl and don't give it back right away, you are teaching him that he is RIGHT to guard it.

Sorry to repeat myself, but you really need to find a good obedience school.

Luba
May 4th, 2004, 08:02 PM
I just want to warn you against using any method of force as it striking your dog with a hand/foot or object. You do NOT want to do this, even if it's retaliation for him nipping or growling at you!

so if he tries to bite i would give him a shove over or a whack

Esp you don't wanna do this with a big dog like a GSD or one day he will rip your face off!!

You will teach him to fear bite and they by far are the most unpredictable dogs you can find! One day out of the blue he may think your hand that is coming to 'pat him' is going to slap him and CHOMP and TEAR and there you go!

I've seen some horrible training techniques even coached by so called dog obedience trainers and pro handlers. They encourage rough shaking and a whack even. I can't tell you how scarey that is to me. I would NEVER hit a dog that way.

There are many other methods that can be used to curve/combat this behaviour esp when it comes to feeding.

If its a feeding issue YOU become control of EVERY single morsel he eats.

I'm not sure what u feed him dry/canned or home fed / both.

BUT each meal is going to be atleast 10/15 mins long and he's gonna have to be patient for a few days until he learns to behave.

You control the food, the bowl is in your hands or on the counter. You stand/sit in a chair and feed it to him piece by piece. Each time he takes it from your open palm gently you reward him with good boy! Make him sit before each portion, then he'll begin to just stay in seated position.

Over the course of a couple of days, alternate one or two pieces in your hand then a few in his bowl that you will put down after he sits for it.

When he is finished you put your hand to the bowl and put one or two more pieces in. Constantly telling him he is a good boy.

Feed him in the same place ALL the time (if you have a crate you feed him IN the crate and he SITS before he eats).

Slowly, you can give him a few more pieces at a time. Until you graduate to an entire meal.

MAking him sit to wait for the food is crucial. When he is done take the bowl away immediately and tell him good boy!

Hope this helps.

(LOL @ LR and me posting same time same sorta stuff)

amaruq
May 4th, 2004, 08:13 PM
NO WHACKING A ANIMAL!!!!!!!!!!

I hate it and its abuse!

One thing you have to understand is agression breeds agression. Patience and understanding the big key here.

Oh and read books lots of books and listen to people with experience. Not experience in whacking though.

Karin
May 4th, 2004, 08:13 PM
Please never whack him again over this issue..

Check into training like others have offered...

Make your voice LARGER, NO'S and practice this with taking his food bowl away, do not flinch if he trys to bite, gently grab his snout and re-affirm with a loud "NO, NO BITE"... Make yourself larger by voice...take away his food bowl. After a few short minutes give him his bowl back and stay with him..if he continues, get LARGE again... I have had the same problem with my dog when she was a puppy and have seen many more before that. An animal behavior Equine Vet showed me this method years ago that is applied to Thourghbred weanlings and it does work. Also, when you give the bowl back to him, massage his neck and along his spine...he will be happy to have you present at dinner time..
Just my .02 cents.

melanie
May 4th, 2004, 08:31 PM
it is really good to have so many sources of advice. all are right, just find what works for you. i would never advocate hitting anything in the mouth or face, that is just plain nasty. but i certainly have shoved her before when she has been really naughty like fighting around children or something and i have no qualms with it when used in extreme situations, each to their own. good luck wiht it, make sure to take in all advice and be persistant and patient. ps you can get heaps of info on dog training on the net, you can even download whole books so have a good look, and get to dog school. :D

Luba
May 4th, 2004, 08:48 PM
The training issue and obedience school is a great idea but do research and find one that meets your expectations.

Lucky Rescue
May 4th, 2004, 10:06 PM
..and practice this with taking his food bowl away, do not flinch if he trys to bite, gently grab his snout and re-affirm with a loud "NO, NO BITE"..

I have to disagree with this. I do NOT recommend taking food away and grabbing the snout of a snarling dog (no matter HOW gently). YOU may be 100% sure your dog would never bite, but many people would get bitten doing this. The original poster does think her dog would bite.

It's better in the long run to teach the dog that having you near his food is a positive thing.

JMO:)

mona_b
May 4th, 2004, 10:15 PM
PLEASE PLEASE Absolutely no whacking or hitting or dragging.....You do this to a 4 month old GSD and YOU are asking for trouble in the long run....You would be putting MAJOR fear in this little guy...Something that should never be done with a GSD....Or any other breed...

Geez I hate it when people give advise like that...It's wrong advise... :mad:

MBRA518
May 4th, 2004, 10:19 PM
Now if I could only teach him not to run over to grumpy old men with little dogs in the park and get them started yelling at him that would be great.

Humm.. yah when you fiqure that one out... let me know please... :D

Karin
May 4th, 2004, 11:23 PM
I have to disagree with this. I do NOT recommend taking food away and grabbing the snout of a snarling dog (no matter HOW gently). YOU may be 100% sure your dog would never bite, but many people would get bitten doing this. The original poster does think her dog would bite.

It's better in the long run to teach the dog that having you near his food is a positive thing.

JMO:)

Did I say snarling? I believe I did not...I also would not let it get that far either, if snarling or growls have come about than someone has the so called "upper hand" in the household and it's not me....I have been snarled at, threatened and bit..many times but only once by some of my roommates, Ciara included when she was a puppy, never has happened again ...I can take a food bowl at any time..any toy or treat for that matter...it's a matter of trust....never ever whack them....or "grab" their snout, poor choice of words on my part..I think some people know here now what I mean, I am not as articulate as others.

melanie
May 4th, 2004, 11:38 PM
there is never no right or wrong advice, only that what works for some may not work for others. i have used my methods and those of others that I mentioned above and have found them to work well. i have a happy, healthy beautiful dog, who has a fulfilled life and we have a fantastic relationship and she is certainly not afraid of me unless she is busted doing something, then she is not afraid but knows she has done wrong and so acts in the appropriate manner..i would be a bit worried if she didnt act differently when she did something wrong. so it is all what works for each individual situation.

mona_b
May 5th, 2004, 12:12 AM
Phyically training a pup is wrong,,,There is no need for it.

heidiho,please don't use this method of training.Take it from someone who has 2 GSD's and has trained both at the same time....I have never used physical force(hitting,whacking,dragging )...There are other ways of showing who is boss...Also remember he is a pup...If I would have used physical force while training,then there would have been no way my one would have made it to the K9-Unit.

I would suggest puppy obedience classes

Chany
May 5th, 2004, 10:58 AM
Make the dog sit and wait for his food, tell him okay and let him eat in peace.
I don't understand peoples obsession with proving they can take their dogs food away from him. Perhaps thats why he's growling because he thinks you'll take it again, give him time to eat. Try again in a few months to take his bowl if you have to, but until then just let him finish his meal without someone bothering him.
I'm sure he'll calm down he's only 4 months right? And you have no small children around him right? If this is true then just leave him alone you'll both be happier. :)

heidiho
May 5th, 2004, 11:04 AM
Ok!! I got the hint,no wacking that does make sense,But last night it took 45 minutes to feed him,he just would not sit while i got the food ready,when i finally did get in on floor,i do pet him and say good boy,well that doesnt work,he still got stiff and let out a growl,i took food away ,tried it again,he still growled,this morning i put food down,was standing at kitchen sink he put ears down looked at me and growled,wasnt even messing with his food/// HELP HELP...this dog will NOT give one inch when it comes to his food// :rolleyes: :(

Chany
May 5th, 2004, 11:06 AM
Do you use food training him? Like to sit and such?

heidiho
May 5th, 2004, 11:08 AM
I have also done the food bowl on my lap and hand fed him,he doesnt growl then.ONLY when i try to take food bowl away// :eek:

mona_b
May 5th, 2004, 11:16 AM
I was just about to ask the same thing Chany........... :D

When you are training him to "sit" are you using treats?

The reason he growls is he is protecting his food.

Chany
May 5th, 2004, 11:20 AM
Most animals are possessive over food. You should see my husband and oldest son if they're starving. I can't imagine someone trying to take their food away. :rolleyes: I'm sure they'd think it was a joke at first but I'm sure biting might come next! ;)
Just let him eat in peace and definitely work on leader of the pack. But by always taking his food away doesn't cut it. The alpha dog once it lets the rest of the pack eat well I'm sure it doesn't tease the rest of the pack with their food.
Hope this helps.

heidiho
May 5th, 2004, 11:33 AM
Yeah,he gets treats when he gets the ball and brings it back,i have stopped giving treats when he sits or stays i just praise him and tell him good boy guess i should start giving treats again when i do that??

mona_b
May 5th, 2004, 11:49 AM
I would continue giving him the treats when training....To me that's very important.Especially when you want to get his attention and you want him to do what you are teaching him.

heidiho
May 5th, 2004, 11:51 AM
He was doing so good without treats training that is why i just praise him,but will start using the trears again// :)

mona_b
May 5th, 2004, 11:55 AM
This is a little off topic,but at his age I wouldn't exercise him to much.And I wouldn't let him go up and dpwn the stairs alot...They are prone to Panosteitis...And he is at that age when it starts....My cousins GSD had it at the age of 5 months...It's like a lameness disease....She ended up spending $3.000 on him...He ended up with a fevor,lost weight,on meds,and x-rays....

Luba
May 5th, 2004, 12:31 PM
I guarantee if you use the method that I told you it will take time but it WILL work! He will associate your hands and feeding as being a good thing over time.

Yes it may have taken 45 mins to feed him but so what, you're trying to get a proper training tool used in a positive way. Talk to him while you feed him and give him praise for taking food gently.

As I continue to say make him sit, eventually he will do it on his own.

It will work, it will take time but it will work! Have patience and understand there is a behaviour that has to be 'unlearned' first and that is harder then learning a new positive behavior!

Just be persistent....by the beginning of next week you will be seeing a difference.

BUT don't out of spite start taking his bowl away while he is eating. There is no need or use for it, it's taunting and irritating him. Leave it be, you're not doing any good this way I promise you.

Happy talk, good boy, sit stay,....feed!! repeat!

Lucky Rescue
May 5th, 2004, 12:47 PM
BUT don't out of spite start taking his bowl away while he is eating. There is no need or use for it, it's taunting and irritating him

Exactly.:) I'd get kinda grumpy too if I never knew when or why my dinner was being snatched from under my nose!

heidiho
May 5th, 2004, 12:58 PM
So you guys are saying stop all together trying to take his food while eating,and Never do it again???? Or just for now.??

Luba
May 5th, 2004, 01:32 PM
Why do you want to take his food away while he is eating? I don't understand?

heidiho
May 5th, 2004, 01:42 PM
I dont either,but i was told i should be able to if i want to take it...I agree i should just let him eat,but people are saying that i am the master so if i want to take the food i should be able to without him growling at me,that is a sign of dominance on his part which should not be allowed,and know that i have tried it i see he is trying to be dominant so i need to let him know i control the food not him// I just wanted to see if i could take it with no problems..

Luba
May 5th, 2004, 02:02 PM
He has to first trust and respect you. By taunting him, taking his food you are aggrivating the situation. Yes you should be able to take the bowl w/o him growling but at this point there is no need to try. First you get him to understand, as he learns things fall into place.

What you also can do is get him a beef bone to chew on, he's prolly teething and needs to anyway. Have him eat it in his crate door open is okay but make sure he stays in his crate to eat it.

Give him 1/2 at a time to chew on it. When you want to take it from him tell him he is a good boy, give him a really good yummie irrisistable piece of treat like a piece of chicken or steak (just a little piece).

Give him the treat and remove the bone telling him he is a good boy, praise him and pat him.

This will start to show him that nothing bad will come from your hands.

Bill & Bob
May 5th, 2004, 02:16 PM
Ok, I hadn't looked at this thread since yesterday and I see some good and bad points. I'm not into physically hitting the dog. When I first got Bob, a friend of mine who owns a dog told me that I would simply have to at times. Me being a new dog owner I took the advice. I gave Bob a little three finger rap on the snout one day when he was getting over excited and ran his teeth over my wrist by mistake. I felt like crap about it after and didn't feel at all good about it and have never done it again. I also don't think it taught him anything, which is the desired goal. If you aren't meeting the desired goal, then the process is ultimately flawed.

As well, you don't want the dog to learn from fear. In my opinion, the dog should never fear you but rather respect your dominance over them. Respect is much different than fear. When I first did some snooping around on the net, I found the Alpha dog boot camp myself and it's great. Somewhere there's a defenition of what it means to be Alpha. It's short and to the point, and it's principle driven. Maintain the principles and things should work out.

There are a few things that concern me from what Heidi is telling us here. Not in a bad way, but something to think about. You've said a few times that you know you are going to get bit. If you are sure you are going to get bit, you shouldn't be doing what you are doing. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. Your behaviours will be obvious to the dog. As someone already said, they smell fear and if you are reacting with fear, they've already won the battle.

Another thing is that you have to believe you are the dominant one. Not just try and be dominant. Believe me when I tell you I found that hard at first. At the beginning after I got Bob, I told a friend that I was becoming a great actor in that I felt like I was at times putting one over on him and he was falling for my acting Alpha when I wasn't confident in my Alpha abilities myself. They told me that would never work. Quietly in my own mind I knew they were right. I started working on my own head and eventually convinced myself that I was in control. He is my dog and I am his master. I tell him when to eat, sleep, where to sit, who to play with, who not to play with, I go through doors first, I tell him when to walk nice or when he can roam further away from me, etc. etc.
Don't get me wrong, I certainly don't have it down 100% but the failure rate certainly has decreased since then. The dog has it's own personality and will make mistakes. That's ok because it's part of growth. I'm a new dog owner and have my own personality and I'm growing too and will make mistakes. But I now am confident in dealing with my dog, and he is confident that I am his boss.
An old prison guard told me one time how he dealt with inmates, and he rarely had to hand out disciplinary action because they respected him.
"Believe in the 4 F's. Firm, fair, friendly, and most importantly don't get F'd with."
Believe in your ability to be the leader before you believe in the dog's ability to learn this on his own.

heidiho
May 5th, 2004, 03:37 PM
Yeah i see what you are saying,I just mean seeing how mad he gets i know the time is gonna come when he does bite...I think i am just gonna leave the food thing alone for now,to me it is kind of wrong because as far as he sees it,here i am after he hasnt eaten in 10 hours giving him his food then taking it,i find that that would be confusing for him,he would not understand why i am doing that//

Luba
May 5th, 2004, 04:21 PM
You can't predict he is going to bite you.

But you can do your best to teach him now. He is young and needs your guidance.

When you say hasn't eaten in 10hrs to you mean because he's been asleep or you've been away?

Your pup should be eating 3/4 times a day, how often are you feeding him?

Sadie is slowly being reduced to 3 full meals and one 1/2 meal and she is 5mons old.

She eats at 7:30am 12:00pm 6:00pm and 10:00 / 10:30pm


When and what are you feeding your dog and how much?

melanie
May 5th, 2004, 06:24 PM
some of you have asked why a dog would need to have food removed- this is why i have to take food away (mainly bones)- firstly i have small children around often, i always seperate her before feeding but there are those moments when i need to know she wont kill someone walking past the bowl. i dont take her food these days (only during her younger years), she is fine with me now touching it (i can add food when she eats ect) and anyone can walk past. when i walk near her bowl or touch it she couldnt care less.
Most importantly- when charlie was younger we had a bad stick accident, a very large stick lodged in ground when thrown and charlie came in and scouped it up, it went through her tounge, down her throat a d through to the base of the tounge, it was horrific, her neck was stuck backwards from the stick and i had to remove it, oh i will never forget the way she screamed poor baby, chill up my spine (the vet thought i was in worse shock than her).
so the stick caused sever nerve damage and she cannot feel most of her tounge, when she finds a bone, (gee those little buggers can hide anywhere) her tounge falls sideways when eating it and she actually eats the tounge. she has had almost half her tounge removed from chewing it and causing it to turn to dead meat (her tounge is now has a square in it). so if charlie gets a bone it is imperative that any human and mainly me can get the bone off her, of course i try and give her something as a replacer but that is not always possible. so yeah there are some pretty good reasons for charlie not to be aggressive over food and there is not so much tounge left so we cant loose anymore, my vet agrees that without her tounge she cant live and that is what i will do anything to avoid. and please dont throw sticks for dogs, my vet has told me many a stick injury story.
just thought i would give a bit of an explanation of some of my reasons. and boy does her tounge look funny, and it is full of little holes that her teeth stick through, i think she looks like a pirate dog :rolleyes:

mona_b
May 5th, 2004, 06:34 PM
I was wondering about the feeding also Luba....

GSD'S are prone to Bloat....And it can be life threatening and very expensive with surgery...So yes,3 times a day is right...

Yukon and Tron get fed 2 times a day now...But dry is left out when they get the munchies..... :D

heidiho
May 5th, 2004, 06:55 PM
My dog eats 2 x a day ..... Was told that by a few vets,do not want the puppy to grown to fast,also gonna take him off puppy food at 6 months because of that reason also

heidiho
May 5th, 2004, 06:56 PM
p.s. he is eating science diet puppy,was on sensitive skin because he bites at himself but that did not help//

Luba
May 5th, 2004, 06:59 PM
Melanie you're absolutely right you do need to be able to take something from the dog or be safe around kids. But kids can never be left alone with a dog EVER.

Right now this pup needs to learn quite a bit, so in time when he learns to trust her it will work out.

People don't realize (not saying in this situation) that teasing a dog to take it's food or bone or treat makes a dog very unpredictable and irritated.

Also, playing games like tug of war are a big no no! It teaches the dog to be aggressive towards us and our hands. Fetch is fine tug of war out of the question.

Mona as for the kibble being left out, Your dogs are adult and well trained ..you know them inside and out and you can do that, ....you know what you're doing :D With a dog that has these tendancies towards food you can't let them have control over when they eat. And for pups it's not a good idea, they develop control over food patterns and think they are 'alpha'.

Your dogs are well trained Mona and yu can do that.

Sadie has never ever shown me any aggression that way and I still feed her meals and never leave anything down. she gets to chew on her bones and I take them away when I feel she has had enough. BUT she gets a small treat before I take it from her to remind her she is a sweetie :D and being a good girl. Never had a problem yet, hopefully I never will.

heidiho
May 5th, 2004, 07:18 PM
I dont think it is teasing the dog,but i do think it is confusing for the dog

Luba
May 5th, 2004, 07:41 PM
Mona and I asked about the feeding schedule, so much to read you probably didn't see that.

How much and how often do you feed and is he alone for these 10 hours when he's not eating? He shouldn't be left alone for longer then 4hours at a time. If you can't be there you have to find someone to take him out and feed him.

Lucky Rescue
May 5th, 2004, 07:54 PM
Science Diet is not good. I suggest getting him a better food.

10 hours is too long for a 4 month puppy to go hungry,and this is probably contributing to his food aggression.

Luba
May 5th, 2004, 08:38 PM
I think I missed a post or two so I went back, did'nt see that there before

Science diet isn't very good, I agree

2x a day isn't enuf should be 3x a day or 4x, your dog is growing.
2x a day is for an adult dog

melanie
May 5th, 2004, 09:13 PM
heidiho you have so come to the right place. look at the 3 pages and you will see lots of caring people and lots of advice, every one here just wants to help, makes me feel warm and fuzzy ;) .

luba with tug o war games, i was always told that if you never let the dog win it is ok?? what do you think?? i seem to be given alot of those toys.

Kids and dogs- it is against the law here (australia) to leave a child under 12 with a dog, under companion animals act. dont know what happens elsewhere. and my neice is a dogs worst nightmare, poor puppies- little brat poor dog wont be in same room as her.. :o

and bloating, that happens if you feed before excersise right???

have a nice day everyone :D :p :)

Luba
May 5th, 2004, 09:34 PM
Melanie
The tug of war is ok if you win just makes the dog want to try harder.
It puts you in competition with the dog for strength, for status in pack.

I would never play tug of war myself...there really isn't any sense in it to be honest. The dog sees your hand as something its' competing with to win over something it wants...no reason to have the dog view you as competition and threatening..not even in game. Because sometimes they can't tell the difference, to them it's all the same.

Many larger breed dogs get bloat and it can be painful and fatal. Play and exercise (vigorous) before and after meals has said to from what I've read contribute to it. Dogs have shorter GI tracks then we do, so feeding them smaller but more frequently is a good idea.

Even with my small terrier he got breakie lunch and din din (lived to 16 so there u go :D )

mona_b
May 5th, 2004, 10:43 PM
melanie,Bloat is prone to deep chested dogs...A friend of mine lost her St.Bernard to Bloat...And adding water to kibble is a no-no..Especially those prone to Bloat.
Here is a link that explains it.

http://www.globalspan.net/bloat.htm

I never new that Luba....I had the dry out for them also when they were pups....I guess I was blessed with 2 good puppies...
. :D

That's one thing I never did,was play tug-of-war with my guys.

As for the feeding,I still think 3 times a day is much better...That's what I did and my boys.They are now 8 and in great health...Well except for a bit of arthritis in Tron....And my previous GSD was 13....

Luba
May 5th, 2004, 11:01 PM
I never knew it either Mona till I knew it!

LOL

too funny

tx for that link mona
Dachshunds are prone to bloat, that I never knew but makes sense they're deep chested but low to the ground!!
Great info there, thx very much oh knowledgeable one.

heidiho
May 6th, 2004, 10:35 AM
What is wrong with science d??what do you feed your gs??I was told 2 x a day is fine to feed,dont want the gs to grow to fast,taking him off puppy food at 6 months also.. :D

MBRA518
May 6th, 2004, 11:03 AM
What is wrong with science d??what do you feed your gs??I was told 2 x a day is fine to feed,dont want the gs to grow to fast,taking him off puppy food at 6 months also.. :D

Most SD feeds have corn as the high percentage (first listed) ingredient. Check the ingred list, they are listed in decending order starting with the highest percentage ingredient.

Dog's can't digest corn very well, corn meat is a little better but still not great, so the corn is just filler... which is fine if it is down the list a ways... but not good as the first ingredient... the more corn in the feed.. the more that comes out the other end.. and you pick up later and the more you have to feed so your dog gets what he needs out of it.

There are lots of quality feeds as the pet stores... and I have found a great feed at costco called nutra nuggets lamb and rice, it is a great feed for a low cost - $22 for a 16 KG bag and my 75lbs rottie only gets 2-2.5 cups a day and looks and feels great.

I'm not sure if one brand or type is better for a GSD, maybe one of the GSD owners can answer that for you.

Luba
May 6th, 2004, 11:33 AM
Your pup should remain on a high quality puppy food for atleast 6 mons
Can switch to an adolescent diet at that time. 2x a day is not enough for a growing pup that needs nutrition 3x or 4x a day. You should not be feeding large amounts to a pup at once.

Did you aswer my question about the 10 hours while the pup is alone? I didn't see that anywhere. If you did, where is it so I can go look?

heidiho
May 6th, 2004, 11:50 AM
Well i was told by two vets that 2 x a day is fine...and i am at work ..

Chany
May 6th, 2004, 12:11 PM
My vet also say 2 x a day is fine, and seeing how most of our jobs can't count on us running home every 3 hours, my female vet said she will survive.
However she recommended with my other dogs when I was feeding from the bag that they stay on puppy food for at least 6 months but better if they could stay on it for a year. So thats what we did before. Now its homemade and Abbey still gets fed more than she should because she is still growing.
Why would they recommend taking your gs off of puppy food when its still growing?

heidiho
May 6th, 2004, 12:15 PM
bECASUE YOU SONT WANT THEM TO GROW TO FAST,BECAUSE THE PROBLES GS HAVE HEALTH WISE.SO I WILL BE SWITCHING ALSO AT 6 MONTHS.Yeah 2 x a day is fine i was told by 2 different vets to//

Chany
May 6th, 2004, 12:21 PM
Ok Ok! But Thats Why They Need The Food Because They Are Growing Fast!! Maybe Gs Are Different! Whatever! You Do What You Feel Is Best!!
See Ya!!

heidiho
May 6th, 2004, 12:33 PM
ok!ok! wow some of you guys are very touchy... see ya also...

amaruq
May 6th, 2004, 12:38 PM
I believe smaller amount more often for a dog that tends to gulp and go....do you know what I mean? Like Lizzy will think the end of the world is coming and she is racing to eat her food beofe it happens. Then she gets the burps from more air swallowed then food.

But if the dog (Ok don't take my word for this...this is just how I feel) isn't a gulper and feeds calmly I would think 2 times a day is great.

Also long backed breeds are prone to spinal injuries.

heidiho
May 6th, 2004, 12:43 PM
I was told by 2 vets to go to 2x a day,and to take off the puppy food at about 6 months,because of the breed.....and also most people do work so 3 x a day would be impossible// ;)

mona_b
May 6th, 2004, 12:54 PM
LOL Luba.

I guess my knowledge comes from being raised with GSD's.... :D


MBRA is so right about the Science Diet.....The first 4-5 ingredients should NOT contain corn....

I suggest you switch to another brand...Please don't ask me to think ball years ago to what I was feeding my guys when they were pups....I'm getting old and forgetting.......LOL.

Also,because of Bloat,I suggest not just feeding him dry only....He should also be having canned.And if your 2 vets said it was ok for just the dry,then I suggest they do more research on Bloat.

Yukon and Tron are both 8 and still get canned along with the dry.Even when they were pups.

How long is he left alone during the day?

heidiho
May 6th, 2004, 12:59 PM
two days a week he is alone about 8 hours..what food do you suggest for gs 's ??? And i have a friend who trained and showed doberman p's and he said dogs are fine with the crate because like wolves in the wild they have there den{crate} and sleep 15 hours a day anyway......

Lucky Rescue
May 6th, 2004, 01:13 PM
I just have to comment on this "dogs are den animals like wolves" thing.

Adult wolves NEVER spend any time in a den unless they are whelping and nursing puppies and neither do Cape Hunting dogs or dingos - other canines comparable with our own (top predators) I think this is something someone made up to make them feel less guilty at leaving dogs all day, locked in cages just big enough for them to stand up and turn around in.

Even if wolves did go in dens, they would certainly not sit there for 10 hours.

Heidiho, you can feed your dog almost anything that will better than Science Diet. The high corn content can cause allergies and may be what is making your puppy bite at himself.

You can feed Nutro, or Wellness, or Innova, or Solid Gold - or many other foods found in most pet food stores.

heidiho
May 6th, 2004, 01:20 PM
yeah i think i will try nutro//// and about the crate thing i have no choice either that or get rid of him and that will NEVER happen...HE WILL BE FINE... :(

mona_b
May 6th, 2004, 01:20 PM
So very true about the Wolves LR.

Also,8 hours in a crate with no breaks in between is way to long for a pup.

And LR listed some great foods....

I have my boys on Eagle Pack Holistic,the blue bag..But they are both 8 and one has a touch of arthritis...So this brand is good for their bones and joints.

heidiho
May 6th, 2004, 01:23 PM
P.s. Yeah The Itching Thing,he Only Seems To Do It,first Thing In The Morning Or At Night,does That Mean Anything??

heidiho
May 6th, 2004, 02:08 PM
what about royal canin food,it is made just for german shepherds?? anyone ever here of that food???

MBRA518
May 6th, 2004, 02:20 PM
I'm not a fan of crates... is there not another area you can confine him to when you are gone?... somewhere he could move a round a little?

I'm sure he will be fine in the crate, but he would likely be more comfortable in a larger space.

heidiho
May 6th, 2004, 02:30 PM
Well i was thinking of taking the crate facing it into the kitchen leaving it open so he can sleep or lay in there,and he can have the kitchen to walk around,just worried he will chew on the wood cabinet doors.....and what if he goes potty in kitchen,wont he start thinking it ok to go potty in there?? :confused:

heidiho
May 6th, 2004, 02:37 PM
does anyone know i keep hearing corn meal is bad,does science diet have that in it??

cmt489
May 6th, 2004, 02:37 PM
I'm not a fan of crates either (although I respect the choice to do so, it is simply not mine).

None of my dogs were ever crated as puppies, including Oliver, who is now 9 months. I have suffered minimal damage to my home (and trust me, even with a crated puppy, one has to expect at least a little damage) and all were house trained very quickly. What is unique about Oliver is that he is the first dog I have ever raised in a condo (the others were in my parents' home which is a very large home on an acerage with plenty of companion animals so a totally different approach) and I found it much easier than I thought - and all without the crate!! I had someone come in in the middle of the day to walk him while I am at work (he still gets the walks and thinks of them as an Oliver inalienable right...) and simply made sure there was nothing left out that he could hurt himself with or that I couldn't bear to have destroyed (ie unplugging everything at ground level, making sure all clothes and shoes were put away) and would spray certain items with bitter apple to ensure that he did not chew things that he shouldn't (like rug fringe and dining room chair legs). Couldn't spray the cat though so she had to learn to deter him herself - LOL!! :D

Michelle

mona_b
May 6th, 2004, 02:41 PM
I have seen that one by Royal Canin...But I have not tried it.

I never crated...I had the kitchen blocked off for them.I've had them since they were 3 months old.And we are talking 2 pups...LOL...

Try the kitchen.Can you block it off?...Is he a chewer?

How is his house training?Does he go in the house?

Does he have enough toys?Have you gotten him a Kong?

I know,so many questions.LOL

mona_b
May 6th, 2004, 02:43 PM
heidiho,have you read the ingredients in SD?.....If not,do so.... :D

heidiho
May 6th, 2004, 02:45 PM
yeah he has got about 50 toys,a kong..no he is potty trained,every now and then like if we have been playing i think he just gets lazy cause he will stop right in the niddle of playing and pee.....yeah royal canin has a dog food out just for g s might try it..what about that corn question i asked??

heidiho
May 6th, 2004, 02:46 PM
ok!! gonna get nutro tonight ans mix in with sd to ween him off of it..what is so bad abnout sd ??? come on fill me in// cause he does itch alot

cmt489
May 6th, 2004, 02:52 PM
I fed Oliver (a Shiba, not a Shepard) Royal Canin puppy formula Nature's Recipe (??) when he was younger (as a supplement to his raw diet). It is a very good holistic dog food. Oliver did really well on it but I have since switched him to Petcurean's Go! Natural based on my breeder's rave reviews of it and also since I like to support a local Canadian company producing a high quality product. I don't know if Royal Canin makes a specific food for GSs or not.

Science Diet is not good due to the high quantity of corn in it. Also, if doggy seems to itch, you may want to avoid foods with a wheat base as well - also known to cause itching due to food allergies. Most high quality foods do not contain wheat or, if they do, it is low down on the ingredient's list.

Michelle

heidiho
May 6th, 2004, 03:04 PM
yeah royal canin makes one for gs./... so bottom line what do you recommend i feed my itchy dog?? :eek:

MBRA518
May 6th, 2004, 03:32 PM
ok!! gonna get nutro tonight ans mix in with sd to ween him off of it..what is so bad abnout sd ??? come on fill me in// cause he does itch alot

did you read my post a page or so back???... Basically it is the corn.

But if you read the post back there it will tell you how to read the ingredient list on the bag of dog food, so you can see for yourself the difference in better quality dog food.

ok here's the post again:

Most SD feeds have corn as the high percentage (first listed) ingredient. Check the ingred list, they are listed in decending order starting with the highest percentage ingredient.

Dog's can't digest corn very well, corn meat is a little better but still not great, so the corn is just filler... which is fine if it is down the list a ways... but not good as the first ingredient... the more corn in the feed.. the more that comes out the other end.. and you pick up later and the more you have to feed so your dog gets what he needs out of it.

There are lots of quality feeds as the pet stores... and I have found a great feed at costco called nutra nuggets lamb and rice, it is a great feed for a low cost - $22 for a 16 KG bag and my 75lbs rottie only gets 2-2.5 cups a day and looks and feels great.

MBRA518
May 6th, 2004, 03:36 PM
yeah royal canin makes one for gs./... so bottom line what do you recommend i feed my itchy dog?? :eek:

Well... I think you need to take the advise of stay away from corn and wheat based products. Read my above post, so you know how to read the label, and go shopping, read the labels and using the above info make an informed decision. If you are looking to stay away from corn and wheat, a high quality lamb and rice food maybe just what you need. If you have access to a Cost-co store you can try the food I use... I can't guarrentee it will work for you, but it does work for me and it's a little easier on the pocket book too.

heidiho
May 6th, 2004, 03:49 PM
ok,so no wheat and no corn,gonna try out royal canin for german s....

mona_b
May 6th, 2004, 03:50 PM
Do not get a food the has corn as the first 4-5 main ingredients.

Talk to those in the pet food stores...They are pretty go.At least mine is... :D

Also,after play take him out so he can go to the bathroom.

I really don't think it's laziness,it's when you got to go,you got to go...LOL..

Many times I have stopped doing thing to go potty.......... :D

Luba
May 6th, 2004, 03:52 PM
If you block her off make sure there is no way she can get out and make sure there is nothing harmful she can get into!!

heidiho
May 6th, 2004, 04:07 PM
yeah,but most of the time he goes to the door and lets me know he has to go,only when we are in the middle of playing he just stops where he is and pees///// ok so no wheat products,or corn///

amaruq
May 6th, 2004, 04:25 PM
I'm sorry it's not funny but somehow I got this image in my head.....poor Heidho going to the pet store secretly whispering to themselves....."No wheat no corn ..no wheat no corn" lol cracked me up! :D :D

heidiho
May 6th, 2004, 04:41 PM
taht is exactly what i will be doing... ;)

mona_b
May 6th, 2004, 05:33 PM
LMAO @ amaruq........... :D

BUT,if there is corn on the bottom of the list,it won't hurt....There is very little of it, as MBRA has stated.

Royal Canin does have a food just for the GSD....And can you believe they also have it for breeds of cats?They have it for Main Coons,Persians,Siamese...Go figure.

Do you have a pic of your pup?

heidiho
May 6th, 2004, 05:35 PM
so you think ryal c would be a good choice?? yeah i have pics but i dont know how to get them on computer,not that savy...he is ssoooooo beautiful,i never knew i could love something this much..

mona_b
May 6th, 2004, 05:44 PM
You can try him on that......But first read the ingredients.....I'm not sure what ingredients are in it.You can do a search on the net for that food.

What you can do is go to the pet store,check that one out.But what I would do is get a smaller bag first and try him on that.Usually if there is an allergy to a food,you will see it in the first week.

Also,have you given it any thought as to giving him canned food?

And did you read all about Bloat and how to prevent it?Cause there are things you need to know if you are going to only give him dry...You will need to avoid food that has alfalfa,soybean and citric acid.

cmt489
May 6th, 2004, 05:47 PM
If anyone is interested, the Royal Canin website that lists the ingredients of all of their foods is:

http://www.royalcanin.ca

Michelle

heidiho
May 6th, 2004, 05:49 PM
jeez!!! are you sure i can feed him....doesnt sound like anything ids good for them.......maybe i will just give him flavored water// ;) So what do you feed your dog again????

melanie
May 6th, 2004, 05:54 PM
i had never heard of bloat before being here. my vet has never mentioned it and i have never met a dog that had it. charlie is pretty deep chested to so that is a bit strange..well i didnt know that big dogs ate more than once a day either.. the things ive never heard of (but then we know some pretty tough little farm/pig dogs). :rolleyes: charlie ate 3X a day as a pup with all the right suplements ect. and once she reached 9month she has been fed once a day since. but she does get snax (denta bones ect) in the afternoon. she would just kill herself if she didnt get her breakfast, if it is late you should hear the carry on, it is like i am killing her. she has had the same routine for 8 years, a run and walk in the morning, followed by breakfast and then a really big nap (a girl needs the beauty sleep). well at least i can tell new dog owners now, charlie is fine and likes her diet ALOT so i wont change it or she may just eat me alive :eek: . i once new a man who had pig dogs that were fed every 2 days, he said it was natural, charlie and i just stared at him. :eek: ;)

mona_b
May 6th, 2004, 05:56 PM
Thanks cmt..I would have done that but my comp is being a pain.... :mad:

I feed my dogs Eagle Pack Holistic...It is all natural....My cat is on it too...For cats that is....LOL

Flavoured water.LMAO

There are very good foods out there.

There is :
Wellness
Neutro
Chicken Soup for the Dog(I think that's what it is called)

mona_b
May 6th, 2004, 06:03 PM
My guys are both 8 and still get fed 3 times a day.....9 months old and fed once a day,hmmmmmm....Sorry,but I wouldn't do that.Once a day is just not enough for a dog/pup.

What breed is Charlie?

melanie
May 6th, 2004, 06:15 PM
oh i just didnt know, the vet said to do it and as a child and teen that is how all the dogs i knew were fed. :rolleyes: i sortof thought that you would do that for little ones but i had no idea you did it for big dogs. but charlie has a really sensitive weight problem (desexed female GSD, can get real fat fast) and in the past has been very overweight. her weight is sort of good now (better than ever actually, yay :D ). but it is good information to have and share. one vet did once suggest that she could skip a feed once a week but i think that is just outrageous, i could not imagine her reaction if i didnt supply the goods, lol, she would be devestated, and would never shut up, you GSD owners would know that GSD talk, well if she is not fed on time my god, you should hear it, she just talks and moans until she gets it. but she does get a good snack in the arfternoon so she is happy with that. not to mention she follows me around all day and well, i just love to eat. so she does get extras also (the gal just loves a bit of vegemite toast) . :D

melanie
May 6th, 2004, 06:18 PM
i once new a staffie X dingo,
he was a total spunk and his name was ringo :D (great rhyming) he ate nothing but curry and chilli (his owners were feral type folk) he was 14 years old the last time i saw him :D :D :p

cmt489
May 6th, 2004, 06:25 PM
I would think that similar to people, feeding dogs several smaller meals instead of one bigger one throughout their lives, especially with overweight dogs, would be beneficial. In fact, I finally got my parents to do this (their animals ALWAYS seem to get chubby but not obese thank God! - my mother just can't help herself) and the dogs appear to be doing even better, plus, they don't eat as quickly anymore since the meals are split up and they know they get another. In fact, they just changed their 10 year old Akita over to twice a day. She loves it and is losing weight!

Re the vet suggesting skipping a meal, I just can't see how this would help. Just cut down on the amount being fed everyday. I think my critters would kill me if I tried this one :rolleyes: ! Ever try to convince a "hungry" Shiba that he isn't? Good luck with the moaning, crying and carrying on... it may start a temper tantrum and I wouldn't want to bug the neighbours... :p

Michelle

heidiho
May 6th, 2004, 06:45 PM
i went to royal canin site,sounds good to me i am gonna try there food made for german shepherds,looked at nutro and that does have corn in it.rc does not..

heidiho
May 6th, 2004, 06:46 PM
If you work 8 hours a day,it is impossible to feeds three meals a day,most vets say 2x is fine// :rolleyes:

Bill & Bob
May 6th, 2004, 06:55 PM
Bob usually doesn't eat until mid afternoon. He's just not fixated on food at all. I asked the vet how much, when I should feed him and he said that for his size (about 80lb) he should eat about 4 cups/day. Maybe a bit more for a while since he's still a growing boy. At the beginning I would put out two in the morning and two early evening. In the morning he just doesn't eat breakfast before or after we go out for our first walk, so now I just put it out when we get home. He munches at it throughout the day, and eventually by nightfall it's all gone. Vet called that "free feeding".
My friends can't do that because they've got three dogs. They have to put the bowls out in separate rooms and the dogs eat it all at once or all the bowls go away until later in the day. She didn't do that before, but the poochies were having fun eating at each others food if someone didn't finish. Too many grumbling matches.
Anyhoo, Bob and I think Nutranuggets Lamb and Rice all ages rock! Tried the Royal Canine GS24(that's the GSD one) at the beginning, but Bob wasn't a big fan. Plus it made his poops.....how can I put this.....somewhat difficult to pick up. I mix in some diced Rollover, which is like a big salami made for dogs if I want him to eat at a particular time.

Funny story. This Rollover comes in a big sausage like thing, which you have to keep refrigerated. My buddies Mom was in town over the xmas holidays. Guess who made a sandwich out of the rollover without reading the label. Oh man. Poor woman. It says "not for human consumption" right on the label though.

mona_b
May 6th, 2004, 07:02 PM
heidiho,is there any way you can have someone come and feed him and take him out?Like I have mentioned,8 hours in a crate(the 2 days you have said)is not good...Actually it's not fair... :(

Luba
May 6th, 2004, 08:25 PM
It's not 'right' either!
Find someone to take the dog out and feed him. If you get a responsibility be responsible.

heidiho
May 7th, 2004, 11:41 AM
I am very responsible thank you,had a neighbor that was walking my dog,but he became a little to obsessed with my dog,so that wont work,gonna hang a sign by the mailbox,for a petsitter......My dog gets plenty of time with me,int he morning we run.after work we go for long walks,play in the apt,go everywhere together on the weekends......He is a very happy dog,except when i mess with his food... :(

heidiho
May 7th, 2004, 11:42 AM
And for luba even when i do get someone to take him out he will only eat in the morning and in the evening when i am home,and that is it....Dont need someone to feed him///////////

mona_b
May 7th, 2004, 12:19 PM
Question,how is he with other pups/dogs?....Are you socializing him to different things?

Also,I really wouldn't put up a sign looking for a dogsitter...I wouldn't want any Joe Blow looking after my pup....Check your yellow pages for one...They are much better and are licenced... :)

heidiho
May 7th, 2004, 12:27 PM
He is great with other dogs,and people,,,take him everywhere i can,he will bark at certain people but once they walk up he is super friendly....Just has a problem jumpimg on people,but my friend came over last night ,we are starting traing but this weeks focus is leash breaking....we go for rides in the car all the time,petsmart,long walks.i was told by vet in the first year you eant him to meet 100 differnet people,and 50 dogs.so i try as much as i can to socialize him./like i went to ice cream store the other night,this older man siad he would sit outside with him while i went in and ordered,it was so cute as soon as i walked in the store he barked and barked for me,just love the bond we have.i got him at 7 weeks and for the first two months i didnt work so i could be with him,so we were together 24/7... i think that helped..Read last night about natures recipe food,now i think i want to try that??

heidiho
May 7th, 2004, 01:08 PM
Ok! the more i look at the ingredients of dog food the more confused i get..my dog bites at his skin alotainly in the ealry morning and at night..What food do you guys recommend??? and what do i not want in my food??? I herad no corn or wheat productsa correct?? :confused: :confused: :confused:

Bill & Bob
May 7th, 2004, 01:14 PM
The jumping on people is a puppy thing at this point, but you want to try and stop that while you can. Bob does stuff like that when he sees human buddies he likes alot. He can either jump on them, or run his head into their crotch which doesn't win him any acolades. Especially with the boys when he puts his head under the crotch and does a 'quick lift' move. Certainly an attention getter. Good idea to try and dissuade that now rather than later if the behaviour becomes too entrenched.
As for the pet walker, you might check around for a person who does this for a living. I agree though, you don't want just any person doing it. All of a sudden you find out that they aren't doing things as you would expect them to.
As for leaving a dog outside a store, Bob does the same thing. "The song of the German Shepherd" I call it. A little barking intermingled with some yawning and whining at top decibel and octive.
All I can say is just make sure you know who you are leaving them with. A friend of mine with a very mellow female dog dropped into a store for something and tied her dog up outside. She comes out and some guy is in the process of removing the leash from the pole. The dog didn't think anything of it, but the guy was obviously trying to rip off the dog. He ran as soon as she yelled at him. With a male shepherd you probably won't have to worry about that though.

heidiho
May 7th, 2004, 01:30 PM
Yeah i know,he was an older man,kept my eye on him the whole time...also i was very ahppy when i met my neighbor thought this is great,someone can watch my dog,he was just a little to obsessed with my dog though,then asked to borrow money from me,someone said he was probably trying to get my trust then gonna take my dog out say he got off leash and probably sell him/////i would have shot him right in the head with no issues about it.. :mad:

cmt489
May 7th, 2004, 01:33 PM
Ok! the more i look at the ingredients of dog food the more confused i get..my dog bites at his skin alotainly in the ealry morning and at night..What food do you guys recommend??? and what do i not want in my food??? I herad no corn or wheat productsa correct?? :confused: :confused: :confused:

Yes, you are correct - high contents of corn should always be avoided. Wheat should be avoided if you have a dog that you suspect has allergies or is susceptible to allergies. When buying commercial food, at minimum, the first two ingredients should be meat or meat products.

Re what food we recommend - this is a VERY personal decision that depends on your own budget, your subjective criteria and your dog's personal needs.

In fact, many of us on this board feed our dogs a home made diet, including myself. Oliver only gets a little bit of commercial dry dog food in addition to his combined raw and homemade cooked diet. This is based on his breeder's recommendations. She emphasized the importance of dogs receiving "real" food as opposed to commercial dog food all the time since this is the diet they are designed to ingest. Let's face it, we too could all survive off of fortified cereal and be moderately "healthy" but I don't think anyone will argue that we are much better off eatting a natural, balanced diet.

In my humble opinion, the same holds true with dogs and cats. They will survive on commercial dry food but it is better to give them a natural, balanced diet. Commerical food can be included in this balanced diet.

Remember, the decision is yours and yours alone. Just make sure that you make an informed decision that you are comfortable with! ;)

Michelle

mona_b
May 7th, 2004, 01:35 PM
It's great that you are socializing him...This is a BIG must...

What do you mean by leash breaking?

Call me parinoid,but I would not let a stranger hold my pup while I went into the store...That's just me.... :D

How long has been biting at his skin?...Have you taken him to the vet to get him checked?

Also,for the jumping you need to teach him "OFF"

mona_b
May 7th, 2004, 01:41 PM
Since she is a bit confused as to what she should feed him,I think maybe we should give her a step in the right direction and suggest a food she could get him on........ :D

heidiho
May 7th, 2004, 01:43 PM
it was an old man had to be like 65...had my eye on him the whole tome,yeah the vet has tried pills vitaman e capsules,switching foods,tested for mange,no fleas,he is just allergic to something dont know what,like i said the itching only happens first thing in the morning or late at night,really weird......leash breaking is just another way of saying teaching him to walk on a leash,the guy that is training him had 3 dobermans that were the most incredible well behaved animals i have ever seen in person or even on tv.they wouldnt move unless he gave them the ok.it is amazing and he calls it leash breaking...

mona_b
May 7th, 2004, 01:54 PM
Hmmmmm,never heard it being called that before.

Guess you pup is being taught to "heel"

Is he training him or are you doing it,but this guy is teaching you how?

Luba
May 7th, 2004, 01:58 PM
...'and as for Luba'

Oookay then!

How old are u or how old u acting?

Your posts sound very immature and many people who are experienced and knowledgeable are offering you advise. Perhaps you should keep an open mind rather then make your mind up, put your food down and pretend to be adult.

I for one resolve to offer any more advise to you.

Bill & Bob
May 7th, 2004, 01:58 PM
I agree with CMT. One thing I've learned in owning a dog is that you end up making lots and lots of judement calls for them. Having been on my own for quite a while, this didn't come naturally at first. But your confidence in making decisions for someone else will come in time.
I was getting loads and loads of advice from people. Tell them that you take it all in, maybe use it, maybe don't, but you will make the call yourself. Either way it's good information that will stay on file, and perhaps sway a decision in the future. You are building up a knowledge base that helps you win those little internal arguements with yourself over what to do.

heidiho
May 7th, 2004, 01:58 PM
He walked him on leash and showed me how it should be done,then i took over and walked him and did the heel on my left side,also started to make him sit by the door to go outside and wait til i get out door first then he can come out the door....yeah gotta get new food tonight,poor thing is itching bad in the morning//

heidiho
May 7th, 2004, 02:01 PM
P.S. Now when i feed him i am just petting him saying good boy,well that isnt working either,growled big time this morning..he is like a completely differnet dog when eating,but as soon as he is done he runs up to me all happy,help???? i just dont get it...

cmt489
May 7th, 2004, 02:18 PM
Since your recent posts state that you are working with a trainer, the best advice I can give you is to have the trainer observe what is happening and have him give you recommendations that are specific to your dog. Since he knows you and your dog he will probably be able to give you much better and more specific advice than we can :D I am sure you will be able to work this out!!

Michelle

heidiho
May 7th, 2004, 02:34 PM
yeah,i showed him last night,so we will be working on that also.as for luba,i sound immature,i just dont care for what you said,was a little rude ,so that is fine with me,give your advice to someone else...

heidiho
May 7th, 2004, 02:35 PM
34 years old/// ;)

Karin
May 7th, 2004, 03:03 PM
...'and as for Luba'

Oookay then!

How old are u or how old u acting?

Your posts sound very immature and many people who are experienced and knowledgeable are offering you advise. Perhaps you should keep an open mind rather then make your mind up, put your food down and pretend to be adult.

I for one resolve to offer any more advise to you.

Precisely why I have steered clear....granted, there is not a grammar police on this board, we all make mistakes but to do it constantly makes reading even more difficult....is there a spell check option on this board? If not, anyway of asking the powers to be about installing one? Spell check does come in handy in cases like this.

Luba
May 7th, 2004, 03:22 PM
Grammatical mistakes are common and you can over look them, atleast I can.

This scenerio seems to be just a little bit different, ya know!

Karin
May 7th, 2004, 03:26 PM
I do see that now. Thanks Luba.

heidiho
May 7th, 2004, 04:11 PM
Wow,cant we all just get along,no need to get so serious/// i just want to know a good dog food for the love of god// :D :D

Lucky Rescue
May 7th, 2004, 04:37 PM
i just want to know a good dog food for the love of god
:confused:

There are now over 140 posts on this thread. In it, there are MANY recommendations about what kind of food to give. Did you read any of them??? Why are you still asking this?

heidiho
May 7th, 2004, 04:40 PM
For that exact reason,i got about 140 different answers,and what is with the attitude around here,you dont like my question dont &%*%&^ answer it then,or do you have nothing better to do...

Karin
May 7th, 2004, 04:45 PM
For that exact reason,i got about 140 different answers,and what is with the attitude around here,you dont like my question dont &%*%&^ answer it then,or do you have nothing better to do...


Hmm? My question exactly in regards to your very own posts...

heidiho
May 7th, 2004, 04:47 PM
Okee! Dokee! :) Gotcha//

heidiho
May 7th, 2004, 04:48 PM
Such a friendly bunch///when i beat my dog i will dedicate it to you// ;)

cmt489
May 7th, 2004, 05:12 PM
:confused: WTF???? :confused:

Left field, where the hell did that come from????? :confused: :confused:

p.s. And no, I do NOT see ANY humour in the "beat dog" reference... :(

heidiho
May 7th, 2004, 05:23 PM
Just messing with that rude person.....there is just a few people on here that are rude....and take things so serious i thought that would give them something to ponder,wold never hit my dog//// just trying to lighten it up around here/// :rolleyes:

heidiho
May 7th, 2004, 05:23 PM
see,my point exactly,dont believe everything you read//my god./..

cmt489
May 7th, 2004, 05:30 PM
Trust me, in my profession, I do not believe everything I read. Hell, I don't even believe experts all the time. On the other hand, I do not agree with sudden lashes or references that contain inappropriate humour (and trust me, I DO have a very good sense of humour and a decided sarcastic streak...) on an informal chat board. Responses and humour have a definite limit, and, I'm sorry, but, in my opinion (and your friend's or yourself may not agree with what I say), your resonse crossed the line of good taste. It was just pointed out that as much advice as could be given had been given. Don't then get mad at someone on the basis that, after reading all 140 posts, she states this that no more advice could possibly be given... I'm sorry, I don't normally get involved in these disputes and take my comments for what they are (mine) but this is something I just had to say.

Michelle

heidiho
May 7th, 2004, 05:33 PM
okee!! dokee!! point taken ;)

heidiho
May 7th, 2004, 05:34 PM
got lots of advice on what not to get in a dog food,just would like the names of a few that have the good stuff in it//i will get it handled// :p

Luba
May 7th, 2004, 05:40 PM
Lacking of attention vs seeking attention

That is the question dear Watson! ;)

heidiho
May 7th, 2004, 05:44 PM
thanks Luba... :p

cmt489
May 7th, 2004, 05:44 PM
got lots of advice on what not to get in a dog food,just would like the names of a few that have the good stuff in it//i will get it handled// :p

IMO, good foods include:

Home made fare (made yourself)
California Gold
Wellness
Canidae
Petcurean
Royal Canin
Nutro

Bad foods:

Purina
Pedigree
Science Diet
Iams/Eukanuba

Mind you, all of these lists are based upon READING THE INGREDIENTS. All opinions were made based on the information provided to you earlier in this thread.

Michelle

Catt31
May 7th, 2004, 05:44 PM
I'm opting to keep my mouth shut both on the grammar issue and the amount of posts wasted on what could have easily been resolved in 12 posts.

I use Eagle Pack dog food for my dog, who is a Rotti/Shep cross. He loves it!! It is a bit more money but it is worth it. He does however get nasty farts from it, so beware.

Good luck with your dog!

heidiho
May 7th, 2004, 05:47 PM
thanks,printed this page and will go shopping now for it...... ;)

heidiho
May 7th, 2004, 05:48 PM
catt31,didnt quite keep your mouth shut now did ya??? had to get one smart $^^% comment out there,good job........ like i said dont answer if you dont like what i wrote...

heidiho
May 7th, 2004, 05:51 PM
Is everyone this friendly in canada???? :eek:

Catt31
May 7th, 2004, 05:52 PM
I tried!!! :D

Luba
May 7th, 2004, 05:52 PM
Then why are you answering her if you didn't like what she wrote?
(directed to O/P)

Catt31
May 7th, 2004, 05:55 PM
Always has to have the last word it seems!!! Just like many of my 9 year old students!! HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!! Regardless, I offered my advice, my job is done.

mona_b
May 7th, 2004, 06:09 PM
Just a couple to add to your list cmt

Innova
Chicken Soup for the pet lovers soul.

:D

I use Eagle Pack also..... :D

cmt489
May 7th, 2004, 06:14 PM
Just a couple to add to your list cmt

Innova
Chicken Soup for the pet lovers soul.

:D

I use Eagle Pack also..... :D

Thanks Mona!! :D

I just don't use much commercial dog food - plus, I have a soft spot for Canadian companies, thus the Petcurean!! :D

Michelle

mona_b
May 7th, 2004, 06:17 PM
Your very welcome... :D

Bill & Bob
May 7th, 2004, 09:01 PM
I have to agree. 140 posts about not taking food away and which to choose is a bit much. How many times can you be told the same thing? How many people have told you that you've got some information and need to make a decision? You asked about whether or not people in Canada are this friendly or not. If there's a language barrier issue, that's one thing but I don't believe that to be readily apparent here despite the grammar issue. By the by, I couldn't care less about bad grammar, as long as you get your point across.

And as for the lightening things up by making a comment about dedicating the beating of a dog to certain people on this board? I agree with CMT, that's in bad taste. If you see light humour in posting that on an internet pet site, you've got a direly lacking sense of humour.

Anyhoo, there ya have it. Hope you and your dog get things figured out with the information you've been given.

Karin
May 7th, 2004, 10:29 PM
see,my point exactly,dont believe everything you read//my god./..

HeidiHo, You have got some issues. I, for one, question your ability to properly care for any animal.

Luba
May 7th, 2004, 10:36 PM
Karin, are you Canadian?

:eek:

Karin
May 7th, 2004, 10:56 PM
No Luba, I am Floridian, a true cracker or goat roper (whatever!)..or I could be called a "conch" since I was raised in the Keys..lol!

'nuff said...this thread does appear to be for attention only...too many immature responses from one party.
The quickest way south is to mention harm to any animal...HeidiHo, you are a winner in this regard.
It would suck to be one of your animals..

chico2
May 7th, 2004, 11:34 PM
Well,after reading most of these posts,I must say,the subject has been chewed enough.Just one dumb question from a cat-owner.
Why after leaving a puppy without food for up to 10 hours,would anyone feel the need to cuddle him when he finally gets to eat?
I know a dog is never supposed to growl or bite even at the threat of losing his food-bowl,but this is one hungry puppy :mad:
It just does not make sense to me :confused:

Luba
May 8th, 2004, 07:39 AM
But Anita she only wants to feed him 2X a day now can't you get that through your head!!

And Karin, you must have Canadian blood ;)


:p

Enough said about EVerYthInG

heidiho
May 10th, 2004, 11:02 AM
as for my parenting skills,this dog is spoiled rotten,when i find a decent dog walker he will get that also...put him on nutro had the runs all weekend,and yes in case someone is gonna ask,i mixed in with his old food,still had the runs....

melanie
May 10th, 2004, 05:48 PM
your dog trainer should be able to recomend a dog walker or a local dog school that can reccomend one, also the food problem-use trainer, it would be my first option. try keeping notes on what you feed and what works and what doesnt, for future reference.
i once left charlie outside a shop when she was a pup, i came out and a man had her draped across his lap and he was playing with her, i went crazy at him as he was in a great position to steal my dog. i once met a woman who stole a 7 month old pup and was proud of it, be careful.

heidiho
May 10th, 2004, 05:50 PM
i see what you are saying,and i did find someone out here that does SCHUTZHUND training also.thank you//

Stewart
September 21st, 2004, 01:00 PM
Luba! I totally agree with you !And well put! :)

heidiho
September 21st, 2004, 01:04 PM
????????????