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Boo Hoo-My clean little doggy has (YUCK!):Big Diarrhea + Roundworms

VIOLET0019
June 27th, 2007, 07:17 PM
My little 12 lb. Pomeranian/Yorkshire Terrier dog, began having loose stool, and then graduated to diarrhea, uncontrollable, (i.e. :( all over my bed, rugs, floors, etc...) and seemed unwell, shaking etc.....thought it was a "bug" .... gave her Pepto Bismal which worked wonders, but continued the out of control diarrhea. Upon inspection of her loose stool - I thought it was an elastic band and then YIKES IT MOVED!!!!!!!!!!YUCK!! AIEEEE :(!!! In a state of shock, disgust, and nausea, I bagged it & next day the Vet's technician tested the stool-substance & spaghetti/elastic-like "thing" that I brought in = diagnosis:Roundworm :( I am so in shock. My nice clean little doggy, boo hoo. Now I am also worried about me - can I get it? Can the eggs stay in my bed (her favourite place - her "cave")? Can the roundworm go through my skin - I was cleaning up the diarrhea for several days, doing loads and loads of washing, and cleaning up the floors rugs, everywhere, plus I have a 1/2" cut on my finger that may have come into contact with some of the feces....even though I did wear plastic gloves (which in the process developed a hole) and did try to wash my hands alot but, there was soooooooooooo much mess. I have never ever had to deal with such a diarrhea problem in all my years of cats and dogs! Also: more worry= my 2 cats. One indoor very very clean cat, and one outdoor Calico Mother cat whom I just rescued 3 days ago (plus HURRAY - 9 more assorted kittens and her 2 Daughters- but they are not here-but already off the streets and safe) - so can we all get this too? Any advice, suggestions experiences are gratefully appreciated. Thank you. confused:

BMDLuver
June 27th, 2007, 07:23 PM
Just a bit of advice... if you are brining in all sorts of animals... then your own animals you have plus what you bring in need to be on a year round worming program. Only way to avoid this happening again. Also, roundworm is really no biggy for humans... tape on the other hand.. different story.. just clean well after clean up of messes and start regularly worming the crew..

CyberKitten
June 27th, 2007, 07:41 PM
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but as a physician and a pet lover, my perspective is that roundworms are considered a public health menace! And while it is relatively easy with veterinary care to rid the puppy or kitten (they tend to affect younger pets but can affect all ages obviously!) with the basic worms (larvae), the juvenile worms that migrate through the dog's body - if they have gone that far are harder to cope with. Ask your vet what treatment s/he is using for that and make sure it will be a good one. Sometimes you need patience with that. And they do indeed look like spaghetti- they are sometimes called the spaghetti worm.

I hate to admit my knowledge of them is mostly from my ER experience as the pediatrician on call - because they do affect children - and can be passed from animal to human, sigh! How old are your daughters? And I also would have your cats checked asap!

Roundworm larva have actually blinded young children and caused countless other problems. Most affected and tus most at danger are children from neonatal age to 4-5 yrs, but any can be affected. Children playing near pets with roundworm can very easily can pick up eggs left by the worms (in a cat's litter or dog's hair and other ahem, material) on their hands and you know how young children especially are always putting their hands in their mouth - tho for that matter so do we (we touch our noses, our face, etc sometimes without thinking before washing. That's why hand washing is so important!)

In a child or any human,once the roundworm egg reaches the intestine, it hatches and the larva penetrates the intestine wall. From there it gains entry into the blood stream and may end up just about anywhere in the body including vital organs such as the eye, brain, liver, kidneys, heart wall, lungs, etc. Since we as humans are an unnatural host for the roundworm larva, our body reacts and walls off the larva in little granuloma's (similar to what occurs in adult dogs and cats). These granuloma's may cause sudden problems in any of these organs resulting in illness.

The most often diagnosed illness is loss of sight in one eye. The roundworm larva is trapped in the optic disk behind the retina of the eye and a granuloma forms. These granulomas have been mistaken for retinoblastoma's (cancer of the retina - one of the cancers I see all too frequently in children so I always know that a differential diagnosis can be roundworm) While I have never seen any, I have heard of cases of children having an eye removed because cancer was diagnosed when in fact the correct diagnosis was roundworm! I HAVE seen children with roundworm that was misdiagnosed by a referring physician as cancer tho it's hard for a bust family doc or pediatrician who dies not see it often to be thinking about what we call zebras - things that are so outstanding that there are unlikely to be the diagnosis.

A major prob for docs and obviously, small children, is that when roundworm larva are encased in granulomas they are impossible to kill with any anti-parasitic drugs and they are almost impossible to detect. How many cases of persons seizing with no apparent cause could be related to roundworm larva? It is impossible to know because the granulomas are impossible to detect. We can't remove the brain and search for the larva microscopically.

I hope I didn't scare you by making you aware of this problem. The problem is rare, but it "can" happen at any time. I myself have had perhaps ten children referred to me in the course of my work as an oncologist by a GP who diagnosed cancer of the retina only to discover the child had roundworms. In most cases, the eye was saved! This is an important reason for people to always wash their hands before eating or putting a finger in your mouth.

I really don't want to scare you but have your daughters wash and wash and wash if they have touched the dog!!!

Here is a page from the NIH that describes detection and treatment of roundworms. I would bring your cats to the vet to be checked for roundworms and if your children show any signs of illness, call your GP or pediatrician immediately! But make sure they wash their hands often and same goes for you!!!

http://www.comeunity.com/adoption/health/parasites/parasites-NIH.html

Good luck!!

VIOLET0019
June 27th, 2007, 08:08 PM
Just a bit of advice... if you are brining in all sorts of animals... then your own animals you have plus what you bring in need to be on a year round worming program. Only way to avoid this happening again. Also, roundworm is really no biggy for humans... tape on the other hand.. different story.. just clean well after clean up of messes and start regularly worming the crew..

Thank you for your reply. Re: your comment: ...."if you are brining in all sorts of animals..." I have never brought any outdoor animals into my house. I am actually quite fastidious (?neurotic?) because every time I take my little dog outside, I wash her feet when we come home as she is in my bed very often (I am ill and in bed sometimes)....it is that I just decided to try out this Calico Mother Cat and see if it works out.

The Roundworm did NOT come from the Calico cat as she only arrived 3 days ago and so, it takes awhile to become a Roundworm and it was not from her! Unfortunately, dogs sniff :( the feces and urine of other dogs
and I think that is how she got it! It REALLY is quite a shock, because I keep her so clean, but just cannot stop her from constantly sniffing when we go for a walk!

So do you think that there is a chance that my cats CAN get the Roundworm from her? :confused:

CyberKitten
June 27th, 2007, 09:07 PM
I don't think your cat could and I emphasize the word COULD as in it is a possibility, I KNOW your cat and you and your daughters could indeed develop a parasitic illness due to these parasites if they are passed to you from the dog. Since they are so difficult to diagnose, the best treatment is prevention and this means washing your hands and making certain the dog - if he still being cared for by your vet (have all the parasites been destroyed??0 - to be extra careful in touching him and his things. how old are your daughters? If they are little, it might be helpful to be extra cautious in how they handle the dog.

I do not want to scare you - and many of these illnesses can be rare - BUT I know if this were my pet, I would be taking every precaution. Even if my cats came into contact with a pet with roundworm, I would have them at the vet asap, even though they have been dewormed. If you have only had this calico for 3 days, do you know her history? has she been dewormed by a vet - usually it is done more than once. I am unclear now that you say the cat came after the dog - was she there when the dog was around? Does she play with him? Certainly, she must sniff him. Hopefully, she is an indoor cat only and that will prevent some of the problems. (I do not believe in allowing my cats or dogs to roam and I think that is quickly becoming the norm where I love, thankfully, in my neighbourhood anyway, less so in certain areas) You can contain the problem if the cat is not outside, thus avoiding the contamination of other animals - same for the dog. He may have picked it up from some other animal.

Parasites have little to do with anyone being unclean. They are opportunistic. They move in where they can, whether a person/pet is super clean or not. Prevention does though - ie hand washing and so forth. If you do not want to take your cat to the vet (tho it's still a good idea where you have had for 3 days- it is always wise to isolate any new animal in the home until you have him or her vetted!) , you could take a sample of her feces to the vet or watch her carefully and check her litter box often. Clean it with GLOVES so you yourself are not at risk and do not allow her to urinate or excrete outside. That's never a good practice anyway - and is actually not clean. Think of what your pet is bringing back in! Actually parasites are one of the dangers for pets outside - even if they are dewormed.

I can only tell you if this was my dog - and I have had dogs (have 4 cats currently - he would not be the only one at the vet. And I would probably test myself and children for the presence of this horrid thing. I think you would know if your daughters develop it but it is always good to check. I am have a compromised immune system - despite being an oncologist, I ironically just competed chemo for melanoma myself so I am at risk for these kind of opportunistic illness - which are sometimes what lead to death for cancer patients. Most healthy adults can easily fight roundworms most of the time.

The problem is in small children and people with suppressed immune systems, the roundworms are not killed instantly, and can migrate. It doesn't happen that frequently but never take chances! Sometimes they can migrate up into the various organs, as noted above. I would treat the cat as if s/he has been exposed until you know for certain and ensure the children do NOT play with the litter!! (I still do not know the age of your daughters so it is hard to answer your question - you did not say...)

Too, the eggs do not become active until they have been in the environment for about 2 weeks, so while that may decrease the risk of contracting roundworms, it also means you need to watch the dog and cat after that period. (and your daughters - if they are young children?)

Larry Glickman, a Purdue University zoonosis expert, developed a diagnostic test to detect the dog roundworm parasite in people. (It actually has another name in people but I can't reacll it offhand- I'd have to look it up. I do not see it every day, only when I am sent children someone assumes have cancer and it is a differential diagnosis) Eye doctors and the CDC now use Larry G's test to confirm it - ah ---larva migrans - it just came to me, lol. A slightly different test is used for diagnosing raccoon roundworm,- which often infects animals allowed to roam.

Through his studies Glickman has determined that dog roundworm infects between 5 percent and 20 percent of children at some time in their lives. Fortunately, few suffer permanent damage but those who do can develop very serious illnesses and since prevention is so simple, it is always wise to take those measures.

VIOLET0019
June 27th, 2007, 10:08 PM
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but as a physician and a pet lover, my perspective is that roundworms are considered a public health menace! And while it is relatively easy with veterinary care to rid the puppy or kitten (they tend to affect younger pets but can affect all ages obviously!) with the basic worms (larvae), the juvenile worms that migrate through the dog's body - if they have gone that far are harder to cope with. Ask your vet what treatment s/he is using for that and make sure it will be a good one. Sometimes you need patience with that. And they do indeed look like spaghetti- they are sometimes called the spaghetti worm.

I hate to admit my knowledge of them is mostly from my ER experience as the pediatrician on call - because they do affect children - and can be passed from animal to human, sigh! How old are your daughters? And I also would have your cats checked asap!

Roundworm larva have actually blinded young children and caused countless other problems. Most affected and tus most at danger are children from neonatal age to 4-5 yrs, but any can be affected. Children playing near pets with roundworm can very easily can pick up eggs left by the worms (in a cat's litter or dog's hair and other ahem, material) on their hands and you know how young children especially are always putting their hands in their mouth - tho for that matter so do we (we touch our noses, our face, etc sometimes without thinking before washing. That's why hand washing is so important!)

In a child or any human,once the roundworm egg reaches the intestine, it hatches and the larva penetrates the intestine wall. From there it gains entry into the blood stream and may end up just about anywhere in the body including vital organs such as the eye, brain, liver, kidneys, heart wall, lungs, etc. Since we as humans are an unnatural host for the roundworm larva, our body reacts and walls off the larva in little granuloma's (similar to what occurs in adult dogs and cats). These granuloma's may cause sudden problems in any of these organs resulting in illness.

The most often diagnosed illness is loss of sight in one eye. The roundworm larva is trapped in the optic disk behind the retina of the eye and a granuloma forms. These granulomas have been mistaken for retinoblastoma's (cancer of the retina - one of the cancers I see all too frequently in children so I always know that a differential diagnosis can be roundworm) While I have never seen any, I have heard of cases of children having an eye removed because cancer was diagnosed when in fact the correct diagnosis was roundworm! I HAVE seen children with roundworm that was misdiagnosed by a referring physician as cancer tho it's hard for a bust family doc or pediatrician who dies not see it often to be thinking about what we call zebras - things that are so outstanding that there are unlikely to be the diagnosis.

A major prob for docs and obviously, small children, is that when roundworm larva are encased in granulomas they are impossible to kill with any anti-parasitic drugs and they are almost impossible to detect. How many cases of persons seizing with no apparent cause could be related to roundworm larva? It is impossible to know because the granulomas are impossible to detect. We can't remove the brain and search for the larva microscopically.

I hope I didn't scare you by making you aware of this problem. The problem is rare, but it "can" happen at any time. I myself have had perhaps ten children referred to me in the course of my work as an oncologist by a GP who diagnosed cancer of the retina only to discover the child had roundworms. In most cases, the eye was saved! This is an important reason for people to always wash their hands before eating or putting a finger in your mouth.

I really don't want to scare you but have your daughters wash and wash and wash if they have touched the dog!!!

Here is a page from the NIH that describes detection and treatment of roundworms. I would bring your cats to the vet to be checked for roundworms and if your children show any signs of illness, call your GP or pediatrician immediately! But make sure they wash their hands often and same goes for you!!!

http://www.comeunity.com/adoption/health/parasites/parasites-NIH.html

Good luck!!

Thanks for your reply! I am just wondering why you think that I have daughters??

Anyways, so, what is your opinion:

Now I am also worried about me - can I get it?

Can the eggs stay in my bed (her favourite place - her "cave")?

Can the roundworm go through my skin - I was cleaning up the diarrhea for several days, doing loads and loads of washing, and cleaning up the floors rugs, everywhere, plus I have a 1/2" cut on my finger that may have come into contact with some of the feces....even though I did wear plastic gloves (which in the process developed a hole) .....

Do you recommend to bring a stool sample of each of the cats, even though there would be a great possibility that it would not show up 100% on that particular specimen, and at the time, as perhaps it takes awhile to form into a round worm?

Will a cat get it 100% if the dog has roundworm? :confused:

BMDLuver
June 28th, 2007, 08:21 AM
I clearly said "if" as I have no idea what animals you assist.

Pets have worms almost all the time.. all you need is a regular worming program. Yes, most likely the cat will get the worms as well.

As for yourself, unless you are letting the dog lick your mouth or are cleaning it's poop up and not washing well afterwards, then you are not going to get roundworms...

VIOLET0019
June 28th, 2007, 10:41 AM
I clearly said "if" as I have no idea what animals you assist.

Pets have worms almost all the time.. all you need is a regular worming program. Yes, most likely the cat will get the worms as well.

As for yourself, unless you are letting the dog lick your mouth or are cleaning it's poop up and not washing well afterwards, then you are not going to get roundworms...

Thank you for your all of your information. I am going to get the same medication that my dog is on, for my 2 cats. Would you know if I treat the dog and 2 cats ............... is this a medication that kills the existing worms only? What I am thinking of is that after everyone gets dewormed, how can I know if Baby - my dog, (who is the only one going outside), will not again get worms? How often do people deworm their pets? When one "regularly deworms their pets", does that mean one time a year? Someone once told me that if one brings in a stool sample for testing, although the results come back negative, the pet may STILL have worms....just that sample piece did not have the worm in it!!!!!!!(This matter is beginning to confuse me) Thanks!:confused:

CyberKitten
June 28th, 2007, 02:28 PM
I have been reading too many threads at once I guess and I write in a hurry (my way of life, lol) so sorry - thought you had children. I would not worry too much , it is children who are affected more - and that is rare but I always think people should know about it. Prevention is a wonderful notion I think. <g>

The worm medication you use should be the med you obtain from your vet - and I don't know whether you should take it??? Somehow, I think you should see your own physician about that if you are so inclined - but I have worked with feral cats for years and never taken anything re worms. Often it is kittens or ferals who have worms - it is not that uncommon but I use preventive measures and that is more important - wash your hands all the time. If you touch one animal, wash before touching the next one!! That is the most important advice I think I would give you!

BMDLuver
June 28th, 2007, 06:17 PM
Thank you for your all of your information. I am going to get the same medication that my dog is on, for my 2 cats. Would you know if I treat the dog and 2 cats ............... is this a medication that kills the existing worms only? What I am thinking of is that after everyone gets dewormed, how can I know if Baby - my dog, (who is the only one going outside), will not again get worms? How often do people deworm their pets? When one "regularly deworms their pets", does that mean one time a year? Someone once told me that if one brings in a stool sample for testing, although the results come back negative, the pet may STILL have worms....just that sample piece did not have the worm in it!!!!!!!(This matter is beginning to confuse me) Thanks!:confused:

Worms cycle... so you have adults, larvae(sp) and eggs... adults die, larvae die, eggs hatch and don't die.. so you repeat the worming cycle once a month normally from june through september... This then manages to catch all cycles and the pet becomes worm free. You can ask your vet for advantage multi... now here's the trick to save money... buy the largest bodyweight package they have and ask them for two things... a glass bottle and a 5 ml syringe. Open all packages and squeeze in glass bottle. For up to 25lbs, give 1 ml per month per animal. This saves you a great deal of money and all get covered. Remember, if you bring in animals year round then you must treat for worms year round.