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Cat Homemade Diet Questions

want4rain
June 17th, 2007, 05:49 PM
we have three cats, two of which had some weight problems on a kibble diet. we started tehm out as kittens on Iams Kitten, when they were almost 2 years old the two boys were pushing 15lbs (WOW right?!) so we put them on Iams Weight Control and only what they suggested for daily feeding. a year later they weighed in at 16 and 17lbs. so we put them on Eukanuba Weight Control. it didnt help. Vet suggested reducing what we were feeding them to half of the suggested. 6 months later they both gained a few ounces so he asked me to reduce it again. well it got to the point where i was giving them handfuls of food a day.... hardly enough for a mouse to live off of!! so i did some research on home made diets. i think a friend suggested it???

ive read several places to give them as much as they can eat in 10 minutes and when they get enough nutrition BACK in their bodies they will cut back themselves but because they are starved for nutrition they need to eat more healthy food to make up for it.

they are are eating a lot! its been 2 months now on this diet and its a fair bit they are eating. i must say they are *quite* active now which is wonderful (but not for my carpeting or my nerves!! LOL) and they appear to be loosing weight, im just concerned maybe im not feeding the right stuff, too much of it?? not enough of what they need?? why are they eating more and more and more??

a good example of a meal is roughly 12oz of meat, 1tbs of puree veggies, 1tbs of yogurt, 600mg of calcium(for the morning meal not the evening meal) and when its not fish, most days i add 1000mg of fish oil and a single oyster every 3 days- its 2x a day i feed that.

meat sources are-
chicken(or rather bird meat) lightly cooked chopped with raw heart/liver/gizzards
canned tuna/salmon/albacore (for now)

soemtimes they get the raw chicken rib bones with the meat scraped mostly off.

their poo is nice and log shaped with no funky white slimey stuff, with very little odor, small. i cut out grains about 2 weeks ago. no yeast (although the dog gets it soemtimes). OH and they are quite good at begging lettuce off of us so i cant tell you how much they get of that... maybe 4 or 5 small leaves daily?

am i missing anything? feeding too much?

also one of the boys has a bad case of gingivitis. any suggestions? the vet gave us antibiotics for it at his last (and first cleaning) but i dont think i got much in him but we sure tried. (it tasted like hell!!)

THANK YOU for reading. any suggestions for improvement, concerns.... comments are welcome!

-ash

CyberKitten
June 17th, 2007, 06:39 PM
Oh please do NOT give them tuna whatever you do!!!! It is absolutely the worst thing! I know cats love it but it has too many chemicals and many vets even warn against it, even tuna cat food.

Here is one example: (Source St. Pete's Times)

Tuna can be fatal to cats and is not something to be fed to them...The human variety of tuna fish contains an enzyme that destroys vitamin B1 (thiamine). Cats who regularly eat tuna can develop a vitamin B1 deficiency, which results in neurological symptoms like dilated eyes, loss of equilibrium, seizures and death if this vitamin is not replaced. The scientific name of this disease is polioencephlomalacia.

Clearwater veterinarian Richard Brancato said that though most domestic cats do enjoy fish, feeding them a diet of only tuna can cause serious disorders.

Although it is high in protein, tuna lacks sufficient amounts of certain amino acids, mainly taurine, to maintain feline health. There is insufficient calcium to balance the phosphorus; the ratio in canned tuna is 1-to-14.8. This results in bone disease.

Many essential vitamins such as A and most B vitamins are also lacking, Brancato said. A common disease in cats fed a mainstay of canned tuna is steatitis, or yellow fat disease, an inflammation of the fat tissue in the body due to a deficiency of vitamin E.

I have been transitioning my cats to a diet but I make special recipes I have found or accumulated- they are posted on this site somewhere. It would take me hrs to type them again - do a search and you should find them. They need taurine and I give them supplements until they have completely transitioned.

One needs to take time in changing a cat's diet!! This has been quite a learning experience - I feel I could write a thesis, lol

Cats are carnivoires so need much more meat (chicken, fish other than shellfish and NO tuna!) are much better than veggies or grains. Cats cannot digest some of the nuitrients in plants (ie veggies). They do not really need carbs at all. Essentially, The metabolic requirement for glucose in the cat is derived from protein (glucogenic amino acids) and fat (glycerol). Cats are adapted to a protein- fat-rich, carbohydrate-poor diet. I try to feed my cats organic chicken and they eat about 5 oz of that a day (sometimes fish, not always chicken - never beef - I am not convinced of beef safety 0 I've seen too much and have a personal reason to be skeptical of it (the hidden number of people dying iof CJD scares me and it is never reported as such!!) . I have also introduced Dulce - a Maritime delicacy high in iodine that some who feed raw food (I am not keen on that either but it seems to work for some so I do not want to judge their success) - kelp will work if you do not have Dulce and sardines are also good.

many cats with IBD ork ideney disease d well once they have nno veggies at all in their system. or so the nutritionist I have been working with at the local Vet School tells me. She says if you have to feed them a veffe, try zuchinni - which I usually have a ton of in the garden - and I even truied them with fiddleheads. (Lucky kitties- they had Restigouche salmon and a few fiddleheads!!)

One simple meal I make is:

cup chopped cooked chicken
1/2 cup cooked rice
1/2 cup chopped broccoli, cooked until tender
1/4 cup chopped carrot, cooked until tender
Chicken broth

Process all ingredients in a food processor or blender with enough chicken broth to hold together. Store in an airtight container in the refrigerator.

They love that one!

Good luck but please, no more tuna!!!! (Unless it is an occasional half spoonful as a treat now and then and really we should not do that either but... I have two Siamese and 2 Sphynx who will not be deterred, lol)

gypsy_girl
June 17th, 2007, 07:14 PM
Regarding the gingivitis, CoQ10 is a great option. Just adjust the dosage down for a cat.

want4rain
June 18th, 2007, 09:53 AM
sorry if this looks a little strange, im snicking my replies into your reply ok??


Oh please do NOT give them tuna whatever you do!!!! It is absolutely the worst thing! I know cats love it but it has too many chemicals and many vets even warn against it, even tuna cat food.

i didnt know that!! we focus on chicken but tuna or salmon come into the picture at least twice a week. we were feeding it for the fish oils in it.

Here is one example: (Source St. Pete's Times)

Tuna can be fatal to cats and is not something to be fed to them...The human variety of tuna fish contains an enzyme that destroys vitamin B1 (thiamine). Cats who regularly eat tuna can develop a vitamin B1 deficiency, which results in neurological symptoms like dilated eyes, loss of equilibrium, seizures and death if this vitamin is not replaced. The scientific name of this disease is polioencephlomalacia.

i also didnt know THAT. now we DO suppelement all of our pets but still... there are other fish in the ocean!! :laughing:

Clearwater veterinarian Richard Brancato said that though most domestic cats do enjoy fish, feeding them a diet of only tuna can cause serious disorders.

Although it is high in protein, tuna lacks sufficient amounts of certain amino acids, mainly taurine, to maintain feline health. There is insufficient calcium to balance the phosphorus; the ratio in canned tuna is 1-to-14.8. This results in bone disease.

the reason for the raw oyster is it is crazy high in taurine. both the cats and dog get raw oyster a few times a week. is there anythign linked to an over dose of taurine???

Many essential vitamins such as A and most B vitamins are also lacking, Brancato said. A common disease in cats fed a mainstay of canned tuna is steatitis, or yellow fat disease, an inflammation of the fat tissue in the body due to a deficiency of vitamin E.

I have been transitioning my cats to a diet but I make special recipes I have found or accumulated- they are posted on this site somewhere. It would take me hrs to type them again - do a search and you should find them. They need taurine and I give them supplements until they have completely transitioned.

One needs to take time in changing a cat's diet!! This has been quite a learning experience - I feel I could write a thesis, lol

Cats are carnivoires so need much more meat (chicken, fish other than shellfish and NO tuna!) are much better than veggies or grains. Cats cannot digest some of the nuitrients in plants (ie veggies). They do not really need carbs at all. Essentially, The metabolic requirement for glucose in the cat is derived from protein (glucogenic amino acids) and fat (glycerol). Cats are adapted to a protein- fat-rich, carbohydrate-poor diet. I try to feed my cats organic chicken and they eat about 5 oz of that a day (sometimes fish, not always chicken - never beef - I am not convinced of beef safety 0 I've seen too much and have a personal reason to be skeptical of it (the hidden number of people dying iof CJD scares me and it is never reported as such!!) .

um actually my cats wont touch beef which is fine with me, if they cant reasonably be expected to kill it then i dont really want to feed it to them. the image of a hundred cats jumping a cow while humorous isnt reasonable!! :laughing: so whats CJD??

I have also introduced Dulce - a Maritime delicacy high in iodine that some who feed raw food (I am not keen on that either but it seems to work for some so I do not want to judge their success) - kelp will work if you do not have Dulce and sardines are also good.

many cats with IBD ork ideney disease d well once they have nno veggies at all in their system. or so the nutritionist I have been working with at the local Vet School tells me. She says if you have to feed them a veffe, try zuchinni - which I usually have a ton of in the garden - and I even truied them with fiddleheads. (Lucky kitties- they had Restigouche salmon and a few fiddleheads!!)

One simple meal I make is:

cup chopped cooked chicken
1/2 cup cooked rice
1/2 cup chopped broccoli, cooked until tender
1/4 cup chopped carrot, cooked until tender
Chicken broth

Process all ingredients in a food processor or blender with enough chicken broth to hold together. Store in an airtight container in the refrigerator.

we pretty much cut out grains except for maybe a tbs two or three times a week. broccoli isnt going to happen LOL!! when preparing their veggies i take outs left over from the week, finely puree/freeze and then serve it to them for the next week. it makes sure they get a good variety of different veggies.

They love that one!

Good luck but please, no more tuna!!!! (Unless it is an occasional half spoonful as a treat now and then and really we should not do that either but... I have two Siamese and 2 Sphynx who will not be deterred, lol)

thank you for your response. while i think we address already many of the problems in it, i think tuna is on its way out. there are other fish we can feed them and id rather not find out the hard way there are OTHER reasons to not feed tuna!

-ash

want4rain
June 18th, 2007, 10:08 AM
Regarding the gingivitis, CoQ10 is a great option. Just adjust the dosage down for a cat.

i can get that from my pharmacy? have you used it on your cats? i did a quick google on it... ill look more into it later. :) busy day ahead of me!

thank you!

-ash

want4rain
June 18th, 2007, 11:16 AM
also- whole frozen mouse or rat.... can they eat those? i think that would be the nearest thing to a natural diet.

-ash

CyberKitten
June 18th, 2007, 06:41 PM
Where to begin - it is one of those headache days for me and I am not thinking as well as I should but I'll try, lol

A lot of people seem not to know about the tuna issue for some reason - maybe not enough is written about it. I headed a study into mercury poisoning study(I actually ended up suing a chemical plant whose manager was a neighbor especially when the Judge issued a Bench warrant for his arrest because he did not take it seriously, lol (Talk about great relations, lol) because they polluted a local river with mercury - mega times to acceptable limit for human and feline and canine et al consumption) - they were given a fine of $60,000 for each incidence (19 times) and I told reporters that was a license to pollute - I see too many children with needless cancer thx to pollution and I had just had it with those companies!!!! It goes without saying even human tuna is not that great tho in moderation, it will not hurt humans to the extent it will affect cats.

Taurine is an amino acid and there have been no significant studies showing an over amount of it to be dangerous - in humans or cats. (It is often found in those caffeine rich drinks a lot of the kids drink - Red Bull and so forth). It is also used occasionally in baby formula and for people in hospital being maintained on in IV solutions (say like TPN)

CJD is Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease. It is a s a rare, degenerative and fatal brain disorder. There are 3 major categories of CJD: sporadic CJD, hereditary CJD, and acquired CJD.(also known as CJDvar) There is currently no single diagnostic test for CJD, mainly because it is caused by prions - the guy who discovered them won the Nobel prize for medicine. Prions are protein and thus not like viruses or bacteria but by eating beef with prions (like BSE in cattle) or kurdu in some other countries. The prions essentially eat away at the brain until it looks like a sponge. CJDvar is a horrible horrible disease and while the first type tends to affect people over 60, the new CJDvar tends to affect people who eat beef or even people who have had surgery with implants made with beef products. Gelatin also is made from beef products.

I have never treated it as a pediatrician and never paid much attention to it - other than hearing of the cases in England and seeing a few of the rare old fashioned one in a million sporadic cases as an intern in Boston. However, a few yrs ago, my first cousin was diagnosed with what 9 neurologists in Montreal thought might be CJDvar - they assumed she must have eaten while travelling in England but who knows? She lasted all of 5 months - the newer type also has a much faster prognosis - it is like Alzheimer's in the young, only so much worse if that seems possible and alas, with this illness, it is!! She was a vibrant 50 - had just bought a condo in the Habitant bldg (Remember Expo 67 - that housing complex on display, it is still there, her dream was to live there and she had a wonderful job, loving husband,etc,etc - literally the life of the party.) She was active in her Church but we were not allowed to bury her in her own plot (It was too close to others and they put lime and other chemicals, useless imho)- another prob families of CJD victims have. It is as if the person had radiation and is a cast out. Yet more trauma!

About a week after her funeral, I was at a heath care conference in Canada and a hospital CEO I know said :you won't believe this but we have 2 patients with CJDvar!". I assured him I did indeed believe him and told him about my cousin. We are told over and over that no cases of CJD exist in Canada but of course that is not at all true!!! They are covered up - my cousin's cause of death listed as a heart attack. (Yes, that did i nthe end kill her but the death cert should have read secondary to CJDvar!) . There is a former Chief Pathologist from Toronto who has written a book outlining his opinion that many of the younger Alzheimer's patients he has autopsied actually died from CJDvar but he was never allowed to say that while employed so the public would not be afraid.

Certainly, casual eating of beef will not cause CJDvar but we have had cases of BSE in this country - and I for one - having watched someone I love die in the most horrible way I can imagine (besides torture) - and I have served across the globe with Drs without Border and seen plenty! - I am taking not a single infinitesimal chance with beef - even tho I like hamburgers and steak!

So my cats get no beef either!!!

Sorry for the length - I get upset when I thin kof CJDvar in this country - I have since heard of different hospitals where patents have been admitted with - that fiasco in Saskatoon where a CJD patient was scoped so they had to inform every other patient who had had that scope used they were potentially victims (It is impossible to kill prions, unlike viruses and bacteria. You cannot wash equipment that has been exposed to them.) and even in Hfx, there have been a few cases of patients at another hospital (not the pediatric-obgyn one I have privileges at).

Anyway,...... sorry to digress bu yiu asked! :sad:

It sounds like you are doing well - minus the tuna and beef. :) Good luck!!!

want4rain
June 21st, 2007, 03:15 PM
crud!! i could have swore i replied to this!! SORRY!!

that CJD makes me feel a little better about not eating much beef myself. Mister gets it on occasion but the cats cant stand it. as a matter of fact two of them barf up anything not chicken or fish. no beef, turkey... read somewhere pork wasnt a good idea so they havent had it. right now its fish (non tuna) and chicken. rabbit is somewhere down the line. we need to get our hands on a chest freezer first.

-ashley