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Feeding Too Little?

want4rain
June 17th, 2007, 05:22 PM
Mister is what.... 8 months now? i have him on a RAW diet, not a huge variety at this point but we go between chicken, chicken organs, eggs, beef organs and whole lake fish, focusing on chicken for now. he is reluctant to eat the fish and refuses talipia.

about a week ago Mister decided he wasnt interested in his morning feeding. i didnt think much of it because i figured he wanted more variety.... well he started rejecting everything in the morning. well most mornings. i dont know a dog who will reject tuna. :) is that ok? he is 8 months, 80lbs and eating half a chicken (roughly 2 lbs) and 1/4 cup of oatmeal, 1/4 cup puree mixed veggies and 1tbs of yogurt. soemtimes he gets our slightly over ripe fruit like oranges and apples. every 3 or 4 days he gets only 1lb of meat and a chicken heart/liver/gizzard, half a beef heart, or some other organ meat.
{edited here- id also like to say that on the organ meat day he gets organ meat from the same animal we give him muscle meat from and THOSE days his meat intake is usually less than 2lbs. he isnt getting chunky but we arent EXACT about the amount of meat we feed him and suspect its a bit over 2lbs. :) }

he also is getting a good bit of calcium. his poo is quite lovely and small but sometiems it crumbles white after a few days.
{edit here too- i also give him Pro Care Nutritional Treats.... sold by Melaluca?? every 3 days or so... ok ok so when i think abotu it which amounts to every 3 or so days.}

i can not express enough that he is setting this. i will leave his meat out (which was his morning food with the 'other' as his evening snack) for 15 minutes but he shows no interest until after his evening ball time.

thank you!!!

-ash

Tommysmom
June 17th, 2007, 05:29 PM
I don't know anything about raw, but I do know that most dogs don't want to eat as much in the hot weather. My pup won't eat breakfast at all, and eats merely a bite or two if we're lucky throughout the daytime... he eats most of his food in the evenings now, when it's a bit cooler. We've adjusted his feeding schedule accordingly, and he still eats the same amount but just at different times. No matter what food or treat it is, he's just not really interested until much later in the day now.

belindaloo
June 17th, 2007, 10:58 PM
Hello,
I feed my dogs raw and have never experienced refusal to eat (winter or summer) unless they weren't feeling well. I do not supplement with veggies and fruit (or any other nutra-bars, cookies, etc). Only whole prey (ground) which (at this point) I order from HareToday.com which is all they need.
I do occasionally give a raw carrot or something like that, but not because they need it.
Do you feed your 8 mo old once a day or twice? What breed? I would imagine at 8 mos it's 2 meals a day. What kind of exercize does he get? Any recent changes in exercize? Any other changes?
You're right in checking the poo when you have a dog on raw, and it sounds right in his case - like a good blend of bone and meat and organ. I feed my dogs 2 days on one meat, then 2 on another. About once or twice a week they get beef knuckle bones to work their teeth because their food is whole carcass ground. Chicken bones don't give their teeth a good work out anyhow.
If your dog doesn't eat his food within 15 minutes I'd take it away and save it for the evening meal. It's also good to fast your dog once a week or at least once every two weeks... however, that is for full grown dogs (and yours has another 10 months to go, tho skipping a meal here and there is fine for a pup of 8 months or so).
Hope this helps.
Blessings,
Belinda

want4rain
June 18th, 2007, 10:50 AM
hi guys! thanks for the response! the meals of both the dog and the cats is really a transitional thing for now. we would like to have both on whole carcass meals but for now we are doing the best with what we have. i hope to pick up a meat grinder soon.

Mister has two nuckle bones at any given time and also two of the big leg bones. one for inside and one for outside (i tell ya... im not up for switching the two thats for sure!! he can ge tthem quite nasty!!LOL)

Mister is a Lab mix, he is quite active, able to play on his own with his toys and also gets a few good runs with us through out the day. my 8yo also keeps him quite busy. we WERE feeding twice a day until he decided he didnt like his morning feeding anymore.

i couldnt tell you WHY he rejects the morning meal. you would think he would be pretty hungry by morning!

do you think that skipping a meal for the cats would be ok??

-ash

Kristin7
June 18th, 2007, 11:41 AM
Although I don't feed my dog raw, I will comment on the refusing food thing. Mine also started doing that around the same age. I no longer feed him breakfast because he would only eat a couple pieces or nothing at all. He eats his day's rations all at once for an evening meal. Hopefully that is not a bad thing as I can't leave the food out all day (cats would munch on it). So far no issues, though it has only been going on for a few months (he is a year and 4 months old). For mine it is not weather related, he started doing this in the cold months. If that is what your dog prefers, maybe that is what is best for him.

although it is ok for dogs to skip meals, it is not for cats as they can develop liver problems (fatty liver disease). I doubt skipping one meal would cause this but it is just something to be aware of, especially if multiple meals are skipped.

want4rain
June 18th, 2007, 12:00 PM
thanks Kristin7, im not sure if i could stand the barrage of meows if i actually skipped a meal with our cats.

i didnt think Misters rejection of food had anything to do with weather, it was still cool out when he started it although its hotter than all get out now. what kind of dog do you have? maybe this is common with larger breeds?? haha i couldnt imagine a 3000 calorie JackRT rejecting food.

-ash

Kristin7
June 18th, 2007, 07:41 PM
:laughing: Yeah, I can't refuse my cats meows either! However, one of my cats I have noticed eats the majority of her food in the evening. My cats I feed 2x per day, breakfast and dinner. The older one only eats a few bites in the morning, so I just give her it all at once, put it away 'til evening, and she eats the rest of it then. Funny how she cries just to eat a few pieces though! :laughing: The other cat polishes each portion off as she gets it (and if she is lucky, she sneaks some of the other cat's food too).

My dog is not very large, but not small either. He's about 50 lbs, possibly an Aussie, Chow, lab + ? mix. I think he doesn't eat because he is not hungry in the morning, which is fine. He is a fairly mellow dog for being only a little over a year old, could be he just doesn't need it, or, I do feed him high quality kibble, so needs less than I would have thought, compared with lower quality brands. The only other thing I can think of is that he may have came to associate his morning meal with me leaving for work? At any rate, so far he seems fine one just one meal a day, however, I do wonder if that is ok, so glad you posted your question.

want4rain
June 21st, 2007, 03:19 PM
*shrugs* i was offering him food every other morning and he decided a few days ago he liked breakfast again. maybe he had a stomach bug?? poo still looks good. :)

-ash

SarahLynn123
June 21st, 2007, 03:39 PM
Hello,

It's also good to fast your dog once a week or at least once every two weeks... however, that is for full grown dogs


What is the reasoning for fasting a dog every week? Why is it good?
Thanks
Sarah

belindaloo
June 21st, 2007, 05:00 PM
Fasting occasionally is what would happen in nature if they couldn't find food for a day or two. Then they would kill and gorge. This is how their systems are created and maintained well.
Blessings,
Belinda

SarahLynn123
June 21st, 2007, 05:44 PM
Fasting occasionally is what would happen in nature if they couldn't find food for a day or two. Then they would kill and gorge. This is how their systems are created and maintained well.
Blessings,
Belinda

so after you fast them, you let them gorge?

I've heard of people not feeding for a day when there needs to be an abrubt food change, but never of fasting them once a week for no reason, so Im just curious!

Thanks!
Sarah

belindaloo
June 21st, 2007, 06:16 PM
One of the things that helped me to help my dog is simply to fast
him for one to three days. THis allows his tummy to get some rest
and get back to a normal pH.

I know that 3 days sounds like a long time, but carnivores can take
this much better than we humans. In the wild, for example, it may
be 3 days to a week before they can find or capture/kill food.
Nature gave them a very resilient stomach.

So, you could try fasting your dog for a couple days, then give him some
broth as a first meal. I give my dog, Honey a broth I make from rabbit
bones because these are very easy on his tummy. You may want to use
chicken bones. Just boil the bones (they usually have a bit of meat
on them) for about 20 minutes, pick the bones clean into the broth
(so there are little meat bits in the broth), cool it down and give
it to him. After that meal you can give him a normal meal later in
the day.

I feed my dog a raw diet which is perfect for his system.
Here are some links that could be helpful:

This is information (April 2006 newsletter) from Lew Olson, PhD
Natural Health, LMSW-ACP
You can also check the archives from this website for more info.

Here are the links:
History of Dog Food August 2005
http://b-naturals.com/Aug2005.php

Digestion & Anatomy of the Canine September 2005
http://b-naturals.com/Sep2005.php

Protein in the Diet November 2005
http://b-naturals.com/Nov2005.php

Carbohydrates in the Dog's Diet December 2005
http://b-naturals.com/Dec2005.php


These links and this information has been extremely helpful to me in
understanding my dogs needs.

belindaloo
June 21st, 2007, 06:22 PM
By the way, here is an excellent resource link on WHY dogs need to eat meat and not eat carbs/grains/veggies.
http://www.b-naturals.com/Sep2005.php

Blessings,
Belinda

SarahLynn123
June 22nd, 2007, 10:34 AM
I do feed my dogs raw and have for quite some time now. I read most of the articles and didn't see anywhere where it said to fast your dog regularly (unless I missed that, which is quite possible!)

It doesn't make sense to me why I would fast my dog (like in the wild) but then not let them gorge (like in the wild).

I also understand that in the wild dogs lay around and conserve their energy for the hunt whereas they dont need to hunt at my house so we run around at the park almost daily. If they are running around like maniacs daily but haven't eaten for 3 days where would they be using up in their body to enable them to run since they have no food to use?

I am just curious about all this because I dont understand!!!

Thanks
Sarah

belindaloo
June 22nd, 2007, 04:34 PM
Here's a quote from a well-respected dog trainer, Jane Fink:

>>It is very difficult to get through to people sometimes about fasting because we have been so programmed to equate food with health when actually the opposite is true.

The whole concept of fasting is to give the digestive system, brain and other vital organs a rest. Food is our fuel, it is what we need to survive but our body needs a break from food in order to cleanse the system. The very act of digestion can hinder wellness. Why does nature equip us with the ability to fast when we are ill? Ever been so sick that you didn't feel like eating? Ever have an animal so sick it didn't feel like eating? Why is that? Well, because digestion requires a lot of energy. As the body attempts to heal itself, the appetite is turned off so that every bit of energy can go into healing rather than digesting food. It is impossible for an animal to starve to death on a one day fast, and in fact, during the fast, the animal will appear more alert, free of joint stiffness, and generally healthier.

Fasting doesn't mean to withdraw sustenance entirely. A fast can be a juice fast, broth fast, yogurt fast, or just water.

Without the burden of heavy digestion, the body is then able to address healing. We are all suffering from chronic disease it's just that we don't really know what it feels like to truly feel well so we assume we feel fine all the time. A one day fast can begin to show you what it really like to feel well.<<
Jane Fink
Greyfaire Westies
Anderson, SC
www.westiewisdom.com
www.arf4westies.info

Hope this helps. I know my dog is more alert, doesn't suffer at all with a fast of a day or two, and it's been very healthy for his overal condition. He has had issues with digestion in the past, and fasting has been the best treatment for him to date!
Blessings,
Belinda