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Belgian Shepherds

Misery's company
June 16th, 2007, 03:22 PM
Does anyone know anything about belgian shepards? We went to see some puppies today and they were awesome, all seemed very intelligent... but one of them had this tuft of fur growing on her bottom eye lid (on the outside). Also all of the males(2) only have 1 testicle. That doesn't really matter to us because we are only looking for a new puppy for my grandfather, (his dog died 2 years ago) and from what we can tell, was a belgian shepard. I'm looking for a bit of backround on the breed and maybe some information on training for them. Here is a beautiful picture of some of them...
They are CKC registered and microchipped etc but I would rather get one from a shelter. SO, my other question is, do you think it is rare that this breed would be in a shelter? I know this statement seems a bit harsh.. I mean I hope this isn't the case but it would be better to rescue than buy from a breeder right?

mafiaprincess
June 16th, 2007, 03:44 PM
Belgians come in four varieties and they all are fairly different. I know a lday who breeds Tervs and has wonderful dogs. You could try single breed rescues.. But random shelters won't happen to get Belgians. I wouldn't support that breeder though wanting a pet or not..

To get a litter of cryptoid males, meant dad was one too, and that's pretty skeazy. I'd use the stickies in this section and try to find an ethical great breeder, if the shelter situation doesn't work out.

chico2
June 16th, 2007, 03:46 PM
Misery,it all depends on the breeder,these pups are adorable,there is nothing wrong in buying from a REPUTABLE breeder,not a back-yard-breeder(BYB)if your dad prefers this breed and there are none available at any shelter.

lilmegshepherds
June 16th, 2007, 07:30 PM
Belgians come in four varieties and they all are fairly different. I know a lday who breeds Tervs and has wonderful dogs. You could try single breed rescues.. But random shelters won't happen to get Belgians. I wouldn't support that breeder though wanting a pet or not..

To get a litter of cryptoid males, meant dad was one too, and that's pretty skeazy. I'd use the stickies in this section and try to find an ethical great breeder, if the shelter situation doesn't work out.

Actually it is the mother that carries the gene for cryptoid!

Belgian shepherds are part of the herding breed and are very active dogs. They require serious training and lots of exercise for both body and mind.

mafiaprincess
June 16th, 2007, 07:57 PM
All of the cryptiods I've ever known were off cryptoid sires..

clm
June 16th, 2007, 10:12 PM
Belgians are beautiful. You'll have to excuse my spelling, but the 3 most common varieties are the Tervuren (puppies you have pictured), Groendale (solid black) and malinois (short coated with similar colouring to the Tervuren). The lakinois is a curly coated variety not that common in North America.
They're all fairly tall dogs, high, high energy, high prey drive and very intelligent. Need lots of exercise and training. The Tervuren and rhe Groendale will need lots of grooming as well to keep the coats matt free.
Think carefully before you commit to a puppy, as like a golden, lab or shepherd, they're going to be at least 3 years old before they start to really calm down from the hyper puppy stage. I love all the belgians, but way too active for our household.

Cindy

Winston
June 16th, 2007, 11:59 PM
Hello there! I dont know much about the breed...I remember though my vet saying that if both testicals were not down then the neuter is more expensive...As for the breed have you searched that breed on

www.petfinders.org

I did and there are a few available in rescue's!

Good Luck

Cindy

lilmegshepherds
June 17th, 2007, 09:25 AM
All of the cryptiods I've ever known were off cryptoid sires..

Really???

The first question my vet asked me when we talked about breeding was about the puppies from the dams previous litter. He wanted to know if the males were one or two nut boys...sorry that is exactly how he put it.

They were all two nut boys.

He told us it was the mother who carried the gene and that since all were normal she was fine.

It would certainly make sense though a one testicle male would for sure carry the fault. Common sense tells us that right???

I do not know just stating what my vet told me.

Yukon our stud is a two testicle boy and Ebony's previous male pups all had two so guess we do not need to worry.




Curiosity has me on the hunt now just to see:

http://www.dogstuff.info/cryptorchidism.html

This link seems to indicate that it all starts from a sire {male} with one testicle but the females carry the gene in the litter as well and can pass it on to their puppies if bred.

So if I read that properly it would make us both right! Not that right or wrong matters....I am just interested in knowing that is all!


But you would be more right if it is the sire who started it all way back somewhere. LOL

mafiaprincess
June 17th, 2007, 10:54 AM
In talking to other breeders, it seems we are both right. It's a little bit of an iffy one on exactly where it comes from. I've only ever seen the direct repercussions of breeding a 1 ball male..

(I don't breed) I didn't know it went beyond that. Thank you for the additional info :)

Frenchy
June 17th, 2007, 10:56 AM
I mean I hope this isn't the case but it would be better to rescue than buy from a breeder right?

If you ask me , yes it is better to adopt a rescue ! And this dog is for your grandfather, I really think it would be best for him to adopt an older dog rather than a puppy. Puppies are hard work , and others have stated that this breed is high energy , maybe a puppy would be too much for your grandfather. It would need lots of exercise and walks and exercise again. If you adopt from a rescue, the foster family will tell you if their dog is right for your grandfather's lifestyle , you know ?

As Winston mentioned , petfinder is the best place to start your search. Good luck !

Puppyluv
June 17th, 2007, 12:01 PM
Having lived with a Belgian (groenendael) I can tell you that these dogs are extremely intelligent, very high energy, high prey drive and difficult to train. They want to work. (and work and work and work). How old is your grandfather? Can he provide the dog with upwards of 5 hours of exercise a day? Can he provide mentally stimulating activities? Is he ready for running the whole gamut of obedience? Level one and two isn't enough, these dogs need to go all the way.
That being said, they are lovely dogs. They will worship the ground you walk on if they respect you.
I wouldn't buy a dog from this breeder. I would buy a dog from a breeder, just not that one. Belgians tend to get sent to Belgian rescues, or to breeders who also rescue. The BSDCC lists dogs available for rescue, and also links to Belgian rescues: http://rescue.bsdcc.org/

mummummum
June 19th, 2007, 01:48 AM
I have to agree that a Belgian may not be the breed for your Grandfather. Yes, they are cuties. But, as the others have said ~ LOTS of grooming. LOTS of exercize, LOTS or training and stimulation is needed way past the puppy stage. My grrrls are part Belgian ~ these are high-maintenance dogs. I agree with Frenchy an older dog may be just what your Grandfather is looking for to "age gracefully with" at his side.

SARAH
June 19th, 2007, 08:12 AM
Just an additional info here, the Malinois is used as a police dog in Belgium, the Netherlands and France to a degree as well. It is not a breed I would recommend for someone who is not very ective themselves and very used to training intelligent dogs!

But they are so gorgeous, it's easy to forget the amount of work involved to get a well trained dog and wonderful pet.

badger
June 19th, 2007, 08:40 AM
Misery (I can't believe you deserve that handle), yes, please think about adopting an older rescue dog, your grandfather will have a friend for life, without all the mad training walking grooming bitey-ness of a puppy. You could do a bit of research and then take him to meet a few in your area, to make sure the chemistry is good. So many beautiful dogs need homes and cannot compete with cute puppies.
I've never seen a Belgian shepherd, but they are magnificent.

Oh wait, misery loves company? :crazy:

Misery's company
June 19th, 2007, 01:09 PM
Hey guys, thanks for all the replies. As for my grandfather's age, he is not quite 70 but that is pretty much 50 in his books. He had a belgian before and it was trained well. Example - he was a volunteer firefighter and one day rode his 4wheeler to near where the fire was. He told Ben (Benita cleo) to stay on the bike. 2 hours later, when he was finished, Ben was still there. He is very into training, and Ben was a beautiful dog. I think, if anything, this will make him younger... I don't believe we are getting a puppy from her. Too many obvious health issues, however we may just be waiting another week so he can think it over...

badger
June 19th, 2007, 04:05 PM
Profuse apologies! I knew I was making an assumption; come to think of it, people are probably making those assumptions about me, since I am of your grandfather's generation.
Down with stereotypes ;) and let us know what happens.

chico2
June 19th, 2007, 04:19 PM
:laughing: :laughing: Badger,I am 63 and hoping by the time I am 70,I will feel not much different.
I could probably handle a puppy,if the cats would let me,I would be more concerned about the dog/cat outliving me:sad:

Misery's company
June 19th, 2007, 04:25 PM
That is what he is worried about as well... makes me sad to think about it.

chico2
June 19th, 2007, 04:32 PM
Misery,that's why an older abandonned dog,in my opinion would be perfect,a dog who would thank your granddad for the rest of his life for giving him a second chance:dog:

Misery's company
June 19th, 2007, 04:51 PM
I know this sounds mean (and sad), but he only wants a puppy(he says training purposes) and has been waiting for 2 years to get one like these. He is very set on getting a When Ben died, I didn't think that he would ever get another dog, but I haven't seen him this excited about even just the idea of getting another dog since he got Ben.

mummummum
June 19th, 2007, 07:31 PM
Well Misery if you think YOUR post was mean (and sad) wait till ya read mine. :sorry: in advance.

Given that your Grandfather is 70, you will need to have a heart-to-heart with him about making provisions in his will for sufficient assets/ finances to cover the dog's ( I don't know... boarding ? food ? Unforeseen Vet fees ? Licences ? Annual shots ? Eventual euthanasia ? and so on) remaining years when your grandfather has passed on. No disrespect to your grandfather and how hale and hearty he is now, but the lifespan for North American, middle-class white males is averages out to be 82. It is significantly lower for men of African or Hispanic heritage.

Misery's company
June 19th, 2007, 08:06 PM
Ouch is right. :) I am quite positive that if neccessary I would take the dog, but I don't think that would be necessary... (i hope anyway):fingerscr . Anyway, I don't think he is getting one of these pups anyway, which makes me sad because they are so smart and beautiful...

Frenchy
June 19th, 2007, 08:09 PM
Misery, there so many great dogs in rescues, waiting to be adopted . Your grandfather could find himself a nice companion, 5-6 yr old or older ?

mummummum
June 19th, 2007, 08:30 PM
Ouch is right. :) I am quite positive that if neccessary I would take the dog, but I don't think that would be necessary... (i hope anyway):fingerscr .

And we always hope our elders will live for many, many years healthy and well. Unfortunately that doesn't always happen. Please understand I really do mean no disrespect to you or your Grandfather and don't know anything of your circumstances.

But, as an adult I have lived through raising my own puppies twice ~ it's hard, hard work and it goes on for YEARS. And it's expensive. Last year my Vet bills were over six thousand. This year's totals will be well over that as I just spent $4000 on one dog. Are you certain you can take on the care and custody of a (as you say, hopefully) Senior dog who may live another five years or more?

:sorry: to go on about this I truly hope you will make a GIGANTIC effort to talk to your Grandfather about adopting a dog rather than a puppy. If he wants living testimony about adopting older dogs, I'll happily tell him all about Declan my wonder dog who I adopted at guestimate age 8 (or was it 9).

Misery's company
June 19th, 2007, 08:58 PM
I understand for sure. My dog was 2 and 1/2 when I got her, so I don't see the need necessarily to get a puppy either but the way my grandfather is, he likes to do all of the training. I will try to show him the way but am uncertain as to how he would react...

mummummum
June 19th, 2007, 09:08 PM
Thanks Misery ~ that makes me feel a little better. I just have "visions of the future" and they ain't pretty. :sad:

And the offer is open, I'll be happy to email your Grandfather ~ and I'll bet lots of folks here who have fostered or adopted older dogs would too ~ about my extremely positive experiences with Declan and some of the other older dogs who have been a part of my life.

And I know this is totally unfair of me but (hehe) I can't resist ~ ask your Grandfather, as an "older dawg" whether HE can still learn "new tricks. Then ask him how he would feel if he was rejected for love, friendship and companionship simply because he is an "older dog".

And folks, that's why they call me an anti-social worker :laughing:

Misery's company
June 19th, 2007, 09:17 PM
[QUOTE=mummummum;441329]
And I know this is totally unfair of me but (hehe) I can't resist ~ ask your Grandfather, as an "older dawg" whether HE can still learn "new tricks. Then ask him how he would feel if he was rejected for love, friendship and companionship simply because he is an "older dog".
[QUOTE]

That's awesome. :) I think he will be waiting for a while longer anyhow, but once he is looking again I will let him know. The death of Ben hit him really hard so I'm not sure that he is ready yet.

If so, there are some great options here in Saint john. When he does get a new dog, it would be a gsd mix for sure

Frenchy
June 19th, 2007, 09:22 PM
Maybe you could show him this picture , all but the black lab are older rescues , 2 are mine , one was adopted this past February. All extremely good dogs, youngest I adopted was 5-6 years old, the other was 8.

Misery's company
June 19th, 2007, 09:31 PM
They are absolutely beautiful! They all look so soft. I've always loved retrievers... I will show him this website the next time I go up there. When I get home (am at work now) I will post a pic of Ben as well. She is famous now... lol

badger
June 19th, 2007, 11:23 PM
And if he thinks that an older rescue dog doesn't need as much reassurance and guidance as a puppy, remind him that some of these guys have been through multiple disappointments and the kind of one-on-one attention he can provide is exactly what they need. Many of them haven't had consistent training, or any training - which is often why many of them are surrendered in the first place, by people who don't want to put in the time - so his skills would definitely come in handy.

belindaloo
June 20th, 2007, 03:27 AM
Just adding my 2 cents here from Holland.
We have lots of these beautiful Belgian shepherds here in Holland and yes, they are trained often for police work.
If your grandfather is set on training them, then he needs to get one as a pup. An older Belgian shepherd would not work well as they are difficult to rehabilitate.
A close friend of mine got a pup for her father (he was 73) and he has thoroughly enjoyed training his Tervuren Belgian shepherd. The dog is now 4 years old and remains on the high energy side as well as being very loving and loyal. He trained the dog to a harnass in the winter and goes cross-country skiing with the dog pulling him! The dog absolutely loves it and it's great fun to see them both (they live in Norway).
Take care that the pup is well socialized in the early stages, not only for the future but also for his all-around development, especially because this breed can be so loyal.
Beautiful dogs, alot of work, big payoff! No wonder your grandfather fell in love with the breed.
Success to you and blessings,
Belinda

chico2
June 20th, 2007, 06:49 AM
I also want to say,most of you are younger and 70 might sound like close to deaths door to most:sad: but I have met 70yr olds who are in better shape than many young men.
I am 100% behind getting a rescuedog,but if grandpa really loves this breed,really wants a pup to keep him busy and in shape,I think he should have one:dog:
I tend to love ALL dogs(that's why I have 3 cats:laughing: )but if someone really loves a specific breed and knows this breed and is fully capable,why not?
We can all pass on,from one thing or the other no matter what age and should all have a backup for our animals.

Misery's company
June 20th, 2007, 12:04 PM
Thank you for the tremendous response:thumbs up :) !!! I will update when I know his decision.

Misery's company
July 5th, 2007, 06:01 PM
Hey everyone, my grandfather has decided to wait and keep looking for his new furry friend. Just a little side note here - a few days ago, there was a huge thunderstorm and in the morning, when my grandfather was going to get something out of the cellar, there was a stray dog down there. A sign or what!?!?!

Frenchy
July 5th, 2007, 07:22 PM
when my grandfather was going to get something out of the cellar, there was a stray dog down there. A sign or what!?!?!

I think so ! :goodvibes:

chico2
July 6th, 2007, 06:58 AM
For sure,a sign!!!
What happened to the stray???

MaryAndDobes
July 14th, 2007, 10:05 PM
To get a litter of cryptoid males, meant dad was one too

As someone else said, and I'm going to reiterate, that is completely untrue. Plenty of times cryptorchid males are sired by completely normal males.

This problem alone doesn't mean that the breeder is less than stellar. One can certainly do everything as correctly as possible and still produce a problem like this.

Misery's company
July 19th, 2007, 03:16 PM
The stray was not a stray at all, come to find out. He actually lived accross the river! I hope he didn't swim all the way across... would be very tiring. His parents were looking for him and were very grateful that he hadn't gone too far...:thumbs up

mummummum
July 20th, 2007, 01:52 PM
Then I guess we should "take it as a sign" that when you Granddad is indeed ready for a dog, one will come to him. Nice to hear from you Misery !

mindis12
August 6th, 2007, 10:10 AM
Just wondering did your grand father locate a Belgium Shepherd pup? They are such awesome dogs to own and train. I had one when I was 17 Missy worked wonders and loved everything I had ever taught her.:highfive:

Misery's company
August 10th, 2007, 04:02 PM
Unfortunately he let the opportunity pass him by. He is still looking for one however. :fingerscr hopefully he finds one soon! I love them, they are so beautiful and smart!

Misery's company
October 2nd, 2007, 01:09 PM
He got a dog! He is now the proud papa of Prince, a 3-4 yr old shepard. One of his long time friends is now permantly in the hospital and Prince Harry (as he is aptly named) has a new friend. I will post pictures ASAP!:thumbs up:thumbs up:thumbs up

Misery's company
October 2nd, 2007, 03:06 PM
pictures as promised:

chico2
October 2nd, 2007, 03:32 PM
Misery,that's great,not that your dad's friend is in the hospital,but that your grandad got what seems to be a wonderful pup,another one of those"ment to be moments":thumbs up
The pup would probably otherwise have gone to HS,right?

Misery's company
October 3rd, 2007, 07:19 AM
He definately would have been taken to a shelter. I think it definately was a "meant to be" moment because from the time I was little, my grampie said he would never get a male dog and has maintained that the entire time. (no offence to boy doggies) When this boy was in trouble, he didn't even hesitate. Strange how life works huh.

chico2
October 3rd, 2007, 08:11 AM
Misery,my son took in an elderly(about 13yrs old)Sheltie after the owner died.
Trixie spent 1 month or more at the front-door waiting for her owner to come and get her:sad:but one day decided my sons home is now her home,which she shared with a JRT.:thumbs up
So your granddad might have to give this beautiful pup a mourning-period..

Misery's company
October 9th, 2007, 12:00 PM
So, I've just been filled in on the real story about how Prince became part of the family. When his mom had a heart attack and was madeto reside permanantly at the hospital, her son took Prince to the HS. I guess she called my grampie a few different times and begged him to take Prince. My grandfather doesn't usually take older males, and was hesitant but finally relented and now Prince is here.
I met him this weekend and he is such a cutie! He is 2 years old but it seems that he is already having hip problems so that is something to keep an eye on for sure. He definately seems older than 2 until you take him for a walk and then he plays like crazy. He definately is a "prince"
:sorry: I know that was a horrible attempt at humor...:laughing:

chico2
October 9th, 2007, 04:05 PM
I am sooo happy for Prince,imagine the son taking him to HS:sad:rather than trying to find him a home.
So glad your granddad took him in:thumbs up

Misery's company
January 11th, 2008, 07:49 AM
Hey, just a quick update on Prince. I had the pleasure of spending a week with him over Christmas break and he is AWESOME!!!!!! He is such a sweet boy and so playful. He looks older but is really only somewhere around 2 years old so he is still pretty puppy like. Man, he is exactly what I want my grandfather to have. What a happy ending!!!

Misery's company
January 15th, 2008, 06:49 PM
Here are some new Prince pics. :)

pbpatti
January 15th, 2008, 06:58 PM
Misery, what a beautiful shepard, i just read the whole post and Prince definalty found his forever home and you grangfather is a lucky man to have found him/each other. thanks for the update and showing what a beautiful dog he is. patti

chico2
January 16th, 2008, 06:35 AM
Oh Misery,he is such a beautiful pup:lovestruck:probably the best company for your grand-dad.
There is a certain aura of wisdom and intelligence in a Sheperds face..