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Concerns re BARF

LynnetteM
May 29th, 2007, 05:09 AM
hi
I am new to the Site, have a 6mth old standard poodle & am very new to BARF.
I have thoroughly prepared good raw foods & my poodle enjoys them.
However, after talking to a friend who is a Bacteriologist & works in the Poultry Industry....I have real concerns about raw chicken in particular. Also my husband is a retired vet & was not keen on the chicken....But it seemed so many others were doing it!!!
My greatest concern is with raw chicken.....not only in the careful handling necessary but also after the dog has consumed it. I had not considered that camylobacter might remain so long in or about the dog's mouth. This is alarming, considering she is so licky & my 8yr old grandson likes to put his face on hers. As well, faeces can also be a source of infection.
I have decided to cook chicken & continue with raw minced beef & other..plus vegies, eggs and other additives. I shall also try another quality NZ dog meat roll, not readily available.
My only interest is to feed her the best, but I will not if there is any danger to others.
Two Sites of interest are: www.dogpeople.org/BARF%20Myth.htm and
and www.workingdogs.com/vcbarf.htm

I would be really interest in any response to these thoughts.

Scott_B
May 29th, 2007, 07:23 AM
raw chicken is no worse bacteria wise then anything else in the enviroment. And no worse then any kibble. Dogs will pick up sticks, rocks, & lord knows what outside. Any of these can have bateria on them. Bet you never worried about that before? As for the poop..so? Do you or your kids play with dog poop? I'm gonna guess no ;) so why worry about it. Pick up after your dog and practice good/normal hygine, wash your hands.

x.l.r.8
May 29th, 2007, 12:13 PM
I think STS covered it (Straight Talking Scott :laughing: :p ), but the sites you underline show the other side of a coin, one that most of us differ from. BARF when used as it's propper acronym is NOT Bones And Raw Food so the merits of the writer are already questionable. You may want some better reading material like that from http://www.rawfed.com/,
http://www.rawlearning.com/,
http://www.dogo.org/Education/Raw_Diet.htm
I could go on for ever but information is key to ensuring your continued sucess. You could no more lump all Raw diets in the same group as you could all kibble. As your husband was a vet I'm sure you know this but here is some moer info:
Yes, the bacteria in raw meat might hurt your dog IF the dog already has an immunocompromised system or some underlying problem. Raw diets have also been blamed for causing things like pancreatitis and kidney disease, when in reality the underlying disease was already there and was brought to light by the change in diet. Dogs are surprisingly well-equipped to deal with bacteria. Their saliva has antibacterial properties; it contains lysozyme, an enzyme that lyses and destroys harmful bacteria. Their short digestive tract is designed to push through food and bacteria quickly without giving bacteria time to colonize. The extremely acidic environment in the gut is also a good bacteria colonization deterrent. People often point to the fact that dogs shed salmonella in their feces (even kibble-fed dogs do this) without showing any ill effects as proof that the dog is infected with salmonella. In reality, all this proves is that the dog has effectively passed the salmonella through its system with no problems. Yes, the dog can act as a salmonella carrier, but the solution is simpleódo not eat dog crap and wash your hands after picking up after your dog.
There is more here http://rawfed.com/myths/zoonotic.html
BARF questions are raised often and I think we all have realised that that particular model hade a lot of misinformation included in it. Most have an adapted SARF diet or prey model doing what they feel works for their dogs, we also change what were feeding regularly so what I may be feeding this months they wont see for another month (at present were having beefhearts and lamb ribs with chicken gizzards) but next weeek that will change again to something very different.
There is a sub forum to discuss different diets that may be a better place to post this type of stuff if it's not moved my a moderator. :dog:

LynnetteM
May 29th, 2007, 06:19 PM
hi
I appreciate your thoughts & I am still keen on a raw diet, except for raw chicken. We all know that chicken needs extra hygienic handling.........other meats don't need such particular attention.
That is my primary concern. I prefer to prepare her food, rather than risk possibilities of the rubbish that easily finds its way into commercial food of all sorts.

technodoll
May 29th, 2007, 07:15 PM
i dunno about chicken. neither kid will eat a piece of raw chicken (i buy whole and cut in 4) unless it's been sitting in the sun on the balcony for a few days and the birds and bugs have pecked at it - 4 seasons per year. it kinda just dries out, doesn't stink or anything. never had a sick dog eat old chicken. :shrug:

we also grind about 40 to 50 lbs of chicken frames or legs per month in our tiny kitchen (to fit into the grinder, you need to whack and chop into small bits), it splatters everywhere on everything - i do my best to clean up after but it's impossible to disinfect absolutely everything. nobody has ever gotten sick the 3 years we've been doing this. maybe we just get lucky and buy special chicken :p

here's a sink full of chicken frames ready for grinding. we treat chicken as we do any other meat, really.

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j129/technodoll/P1010015-2.jpg

Scott_B
May 29th, 2007, 07:23 PM
Just be smart/normal about it. Like any meat, wash your hands before and after. you handle it. Clean any surfaces with viniger and water.