Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

where can i report a puppy mill operation?

technodoll
May 21st, 2007, 10:50 PM
or are they completely legal in quebec?.. and there is nothing to be done? how about a property inspection or something... came across this disgusting ad on an online site:

HELLO I AM A DOG BREEDER I AM LOOKING FOR PET SHOP BUYERS AND BROKERS ALL OUR PUPPIES ARE VET EXAMINED AND RECIEVE THE BORDETELLA WITH THERE FIRST PUPPY SHOT ALL DEWARMING IS COMPLETELY DONE HERE ARE THE BREEDS THAT ARE AVALIABLE : THESE ARE SMALL TO MEDIUM BREEDS : BEAGLE, MINI SCHNAUZER, MINI PINCHER, BICHON, MALTESE, TECHEL DACHSHUMS, JACK RUSSELL, SOFTT COATED WHEATEN, YORK SHIRE, WEST HIGHLAND, FOX TERRIER, KERRY BLUE, AUSTRALIAN CATTLE DOG. THESE ARE THE LARGE BREEDS : GERMAN SHEPHERD, WEINARANER, LABRADOR, DOBERMAN KING, BOUVIER DES FLANDRES. PERSON TO CONTACT IS MARIA:

this illiterate person has 21 other ads, with photos of sickly looking puppies (small breeds only). UUGGHHH!!! :mad: :yell:

and i know of another one where dogs live in dark filthy barns their entire lives, sleeping in their excrement. sample photo of a puppy for sale (why bother picking up the crap, even for a "for sale" photo? :mad: :

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j129/technodoll/picturebig.jpg

there are also poneys and horses suffering the same conditions there...

:sad: i just want these monsters shut down!!

badger
May 22nd, 2007, 03:11 AM
Breeding dogs for commercial gain is legal in Quebec. Where they risk running into trouble is if the conditions aren't up to standard, which is already pitifully low: food, water, shelter, cage size; no mention of the need for human contact for instance. False advertising also seems to be permitted. I would be surprised if the health checks they claim come anywhere close to being adequate.

As I understand it, because of a dire shortage of inspectors the SPCA only acts on complaints. The ads you mention would probably not be sufficient to trigger an investigation, you would have to go there as a prospective buyer and see the conditions for yourself. And even then, would they take you at your word? or would they need multiple complaints? I have no idea.

You could call the SPCA and ask them what you need to do to get this mill inspected. If you post about these places, don't mention names or other identifying information, there are legal implications.

luckypenny
May 22nd, 2007, 10:44 AM
Can you call to make an appointment to see these dogs? Pretend you're a potential buyer? When you leave, document everything you saw (take note of cleanliness, sick looking dogs, dogs spinning around in the areas their kept, availability of food and water, etc). It would be a good idea if a few other people did the same thing and several complaints put forward at the same time. Chances are no one will investigate (not enough resources) unless you have substantial proof.

Try to find out if this person has a business name. There's a site to find out if it's registered or not and if its' income reports have been filed. If not, then this is another way to go about making it very difficult for her to continue this "business." If you choose this approach, copy and save every on-line ad of hers you can find. If you just google her phone number and/or postal code, everything ought to come up. Then you can report her to Revenue Quebec and Canada.

It's very time-consuming but if you feel very strongly about this, there's always a chance the outcome will be favorable for the dogs.

Frenchy
May 22nd, 2007, 11:15 AM
Sounds VERY familiar, if it is the same person, it's in my area, remember Luckypenny ? .....

luckypenny
May 22nd, 2007, 11:21 AM
Sounds VERY familiar, if it is the same person, it's in my area, remember Luckypenny ? .....

Could be, there are so many. But I think this one's east of here. Anyone in the area care for a meeting?

Frenchy
May 22nd, 2007, 11:27 AM
Same woman's name, the one I'm talking about had Dogues de bordeaux, Schauner, mini schnauzer, cattle dog, German Shepard, Beagles, Weimamer, Jack russels, Chihuahua, teckles, Pincher, Yorkshire and West Higland.....TD, can you pm me where you saw the adds or phone # ... anything ? I'd like to know if it's the same person because I did start a little search of my own a few weeks ago.

CyberKitten
May 22nd, 2007, 06:03 PM
The RevCan is a good suggestion given the dearth of SPCA inspectors - not enough of them and the laws they have to work with are not as good as they should be tho I do not need to tell anyone living in Quebec that - tho we in other provinces have nothing to brag about either!

If you know her name, you could report her to any reputable breeders and if you have enough people, you could protest near her business or have leaflets printed - easy to do now with computers et al. (Get a permit to make it legal) - I am thinking of Saul Alinski's Rules for Radicals, lol Be creative in giving her - if it is a her - a tough time. But do everything within the bounds of the law and good taste even tho she is not a good person - that does not mean we have to lower our own values!

I can see a poster with the puppy mill name in a circle with a line through it - posted at significant places. The prob is does she ship outside Quebec because clearly, those tactics would not stop her there. (sighh!!!) And

Prin
May 22nd, 2007, 06:06 PM
:sad: :sad: :sad:

Frenchy
May 22nd, 2007, 07:32 PM
I'm waiting to hear from someone, will keep you posted.

technodoll
May 22nd, 2007, 07:38 PM
thank you frenchy... thank you. :grouphug:

Stacer
May 22nd, 2007, 09:25 PM
That is sad and disgusting TD. I hope you guys can do something good. You should go to one of those online spy supply stores and buy a pin hole camera mounted in glasses and videotape a visit to the "breeder".

Frenchy
May 22nd, 2007, 09:32 PM
You should go to one of those online spy supply stores and buy a pin hole camera mounted in glasses and videotape a visit to the "breeder".

Sometimes it doesn't even help :frustrated: I know someone who gets dogs out of a pound near here, he pays with his own pocket money the adoption fee and puts them up for adoption himself, choosing families very carefully. That's where Molly came from. He send me pics, it was discusting. He send pics to an association I won't name, they call the pound to say they were going to visit in a week...for sure when they got there it was very clean. They had a week to prepare for the visit :frustrated: It's like calling a pusher the RCMP will be there in a week ....

technodoll
May 22nd, 2007, 09:34 PM
it's just so, so wrong... no laws, or the ones in place so convoluted that they just don't work. :sad:

Stacer
May 22nd, 2007, 10:05 PM
how completely disheartening:sad:

Ed U KayShawn
May 25th, 2007, 09:29 AM
Hi there, I am a former OSPCA agent, I do not know the laws pertaining to Quebec, but I do know that in Ontario when a complaint is phoned in, an agent must be sent out within 24 to 48 hours. Signs that we would look for are, clean water, clean living quarters and proper housing,protection from the elements heat/cold/ rain/snow. Regarding the conditions of the housing of the animals it is possible to call the Health Department for that area they can make a recommendation to clean it up, or they may order them to clean it up. Especially if there are children living in the home playing in the area etc. I don't know how fast they respond but it could take 5-7 days for them to respond to a complaint. You have to get creative and use all available sources and USE your politicians!! Write letters and make phone calls to them and let them know that these operations are not acceptable. You can always let the spca and the health dept. know that you have informed your MP about situation;) it doesn't hurt to lean on people!!

erykah1310
May 25th, 2007, 07:18 PM
my stomache is all upside down and clenched up right now:mad: :yell: :mad:
I would end up doing something that got me in loads of crap if this was happening in my area.
I have a hard time with emotion stabtility ( nothing medical just I get enraged and do things I prolly shouldnt have)
Anyways...
I'd be in jail if that ad was here.:frustrated:

technodoll
May 25th, 2007, 07:56 PM
i'm trying to get in touch with the person who was at that 2nd place (with the poor pom), she's moved to another city for studies (sherbrooke) and i'm not sure if she checks her email often... apparently not. she's the one who saw the disgusting conditions there and got me in hives... i need her to help me with this, to at least write up a "report" :frustrated:

Frenchy
May 25th, 2007, 08:00 PM
Sometimes it doesn't even help :frustrated: I know someone who gets dogs out of a pound near here, he pays with his own pocket money the adoption fee and puts them up for adoption himself, choosing families very carefully. That's where Molly came from. He send me pics, it was discusting. He send pics to an association I won't name, they call the pound to say they were going to visit in a week...for sure when they got there it was very clean. They had a week to prepare for the visit :frustrated: It's like calling a pusher the RCMP will be there in a week ....

Don't give up TD, the pound I was talking about , is closing on May 31. (just found out this afternoon) Because the man kept complaining about it. So there's is hope ! :goodvibes:

technodoll
May 25th, 2007, 08:14 PM
wow frenchy!! that is GREAT!! and very encouraging! :highfive: :goodvibes:

hazelrunpack
May 26th, 2007, 09:06 AM
it's just so, so wrong... no laws, or the ones in place so convoluted that they just don't work. :sad:

If there were good laws in place...what elements would have to be included, in your mind? What things would be nice but not essential...

It sounds like a loaded question, but it's not...my county leads my state in puppy mills... :sad:

technodoll
May 26th, 2007, 09:48 AM
If there were good laws in place...what elements would have to be included, in your mind? What things would be nice but not essential

A few basic things come to mind:

-every breeder (ethical, byb, puppymill, etc) would need a license, renewable every year upon the inspection of said property. Yearly fee would apply. These fees would help fund a bank of inspectors who could then do a round of the registered breeders for spot checks.

-every breeder would be considered a business and must pay taxes (IRS!) on sales of said puppies, and be goverened by business laws re: consumer protection, guarantee of puppy health, etc. No more lemons!

-impose a max # of dogs allowed on property. Basic animal protection laws would apply (no bitches allowed to be bred under 2 years of age, health checks must be done & backed by paperwork, maximum of one litter per bitch every 2 years, max breeding age 6 years old, etc).

-facilities would have to include clean living spaces, shelter from the elements, dogs must be cleaned and groomed and exercised, socialized, etc (that's what the inspectors are for).

-all puppies sold must be registered with the county, for statistical purposes. If there are too many being produced, the # of available licenses per year would be reduced, you have to wait your turn if you can't get one.

-all buyers would be made to sign a sales contract, binding the seller to guarantee the health and temperament of sold puppy, must take the puppy back to rehome it if the seller cannot keep it anymore, buyer must meet certain conditions, etc.

-make it illegal to sell puppies to brokers and petshops. hold the breeders respsonsible for what they breed, from A to Z.

...stuff like that.... what's so impossible about it? :confused: :frustrated:

Frenchy
May 26th, 2007, 09:54 AM
ohhh , me like those ! :thumbs up