- Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 


Raw & nutrients

May 21st, 2007, 01:44 PM
Found this on the Raw feeding list. Gives a good idea of what nutrients are in what meats. Goes to show why variety is a good thing.

And this is not intended to be anti kibble either for the nitpickers :p

Here is an article I wrote a while ago about nutrition. It was first
aimed at people who thought I was "killing" my dog, or not giving her
everything she needs by not feeding her a "complete and balanced diet."
So here is the article in its entirety! This was written with intentions
for learning and to be circulated as such!

Are we killing our dogs by not feeding them kibble? The short of it, is
"No." But let's take a look at the long of it. It seems many raw feeders
are berated by kibblers who think we are somehow killing our dogs by not
feeding them a "complete and balanced diet." They think that our dogs
are not getting everything they need, and go as far as to say that
it's "IMPOSSIBLE" to make their diet at home because it will
be "unbalanced." Well let's take a look at some nutrients
here, and their sources. I'll only list known carnivorous sources, and
off the top of my head. I've "*" the nutrients that are almost never
added back to kibble or canned foods after they are processed, thus
showing that sometimes even the commercial fed pets are missing out.
I've put a "-" in front of the nutrients that there is never enough of
in kibble, and underlined the ones that there is way too much of or
unnecessary. First the list, then the fun stuff:

C (antioxidant)
E (antioxidant)


Amino Acids:
Aspartic Acid
Glutamic Acid

Fatty Acids:
Omega 3, 6, and 9, Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA), Eicosapentaenoic Acid

glucosamine chondroitin sulfate

So there's the list, now here comes the fun part; Sources:

A: This vitamin can be found in eggs and organ meats, like liver.
B: This vitamin is water soluble and is found in eggs, muscles meats and
C: This is another water-soluble vitamin. Interestingly enough
carnivores can manufacture their own vitamin C in their livers,
that's a fat-soluble source, so it can be stored. There is no need
to supplement this vitamin at all. Some people claim that these stores
can be depleted rapidly during times of stress, however the
water-soluble version is of no use to dogs. All they need are sufficient
amounts of trace minerals to produce more vitamin C as needed.
D: This vitamin is found in whole eggs, liver and salmon.
E: This can be found in traces in organs, which is where the vitamin is
stored in all creatures.
K: Found in organs meats, muscle meats and eggs.

Sulphur: Found in meats, eggs and organ meats.
Silica: Found in everything
Iodine: Traces found in meats and eggs, good sources are seafood and
"sweetbreads" which are the glands of prey animals, like
thyroid, or pancreas.
Chromium: Beef, liver, eggs, chicken, oysters
Iron: Beef, liver, meats in general, eggs, fish
Zinc: Meats, fish, eggs, organs, poultry, best source is dark meats
Copper: Traces are found in everything, better sources include pork, and
organ meats
Manganese: Traces found in everything, good sources include prey animals
stomachs since this is needed for enzyme structure.
Calcium: Bones and eggshells
Phosphorous: Meats, eggs, organs, fish
Magnesium: Bones and eggshells, meat, fish and poultry
Potassium: Found in everything, prevalent in eggs and fish
Sodium: Found in everything

Amino Acids:
There isn't much to discuss here, amino acids make up proteins,
complete proteins have all amino acids. Complete protein includes all
animal parts and products. Taurine is synthesized using Methionine,
found naturally in complete protein. Taurine is also found in heart.

Fatty Acids:
The above listed Fatty acids, Omega 3, 6, and 9, and DHA and EPA, are
all found in either fish, eggs, or animal fats, provided those animal
fats are not cooked or rendered in any way, which destroys the fats.

Glucosamine Chondroitin Sulfates are contained in raw cartilage and fat.

Now, since kibble is cooked and we know minerals and vitamins are
destroyed when cooked, how many of these nutrients are actually
available in kibble? It's all in black and white right here:
Everything carnivores need can be found in animal parts.

May 21st, 2007, 07:15 PM
Very informative article Scott. Thanks for posting:thumbs up

May 22nd, 2007, 02:19 PM
This is great. Feeding a variety seems to be the answer, but what about if I am using premade raw, how do I know that I am gettting the right "part" of the animal.
IE I have a dog who has an intollerance, and I have been feeding raw lamb, and haven;t found anything that works (yet) other than that. How can I be sure without mixing it up?

May 22nd, 2007, 02:21 PM
maybe contact he company and find out what parts of the lamb is used.

May 22nd, 2007, 02:30 PM
I tried that, and the recipe is not "fixed", it depends on what is available at the time. I can't seem to find a company that knows what their nutrient profile is, except Mountain Dog, and they don't have lamb.

May 22nd, 2007, 02:34 PM
I don't have access to a wide variety of meats (no venison, no exotic meats or birds other than chicken and the occasional turkey, for example) so I feed what I can, i try to rotate, and feed supplements such as Fish Oils, Ester-C, E, Kelp, Alfalfa, garlic, etc to compensate... their base diet is chicken bones (sometimes whole legs or whole chickens, but mostly just ground chicken frames) and ground beef.

I buy pork or pork neck bones when I can, they get whole raw fish once or twice per week and also canned oily fish, they get plenty of eggs, cottage cheese, yogurt, a homemade antioxydant veggie and quinoa mush, and twice per week they each get a patty of bison meat and horse meat... it,s not much but it's all i can afford. Green tripe is super difficult to get and very expensive. They get lots of organ meats (heart, kidneys and livers from pork, beef, chicken, and also chicken giblets) and I even found fresh veal lung last week - oh god it's sooo gross but i just close my eyes and get over it, LOL!

I figure that even if they only ate two or three kinds of meat with bones and organs, with some other things thrown in... it would be infinitely better for them than eating the same dry pellets from a bag day in, day out for their entire lives :)