May 16th, 2007, 09:11 PM
Every time I go to any grocery store someone is most happily lugging a huge bag of some crap cat or dog food. Its like everywhere and every time I go out, Zellars, Safeway any food store basically. And they always look so damn proud!!! Does anyone say anything? What could I say? These are generally not poor looking people either, they are often "middle class" to wealthy, sometimes trendy looking students, obviously people that can afford to buy good food. I don't know, it just really gets under my skin everytime because even when I knew very little, I at least had the sense to know foods like Purina were not a wise choice.
Please feel free to rant and share any stories of trying to educate strangers or family members. I could use some creative ideas so I don't have to agonize at check-out lineups.:o I guess my fear is if I say something they will get offended and defensive.
May 16th, 2007, 09:18 PM
LOL, this is hilarious...
I was just out grocery shopping today and I was loudly b**ching about that exact same thing to my friend while i was getting some cat litter. :laughing: A very wealthy looking lady asked the shelf stocker which of the 2 garbage foods she was holding was better for her dog. He looked at the prices and said " that one" pointing to the more expensive food.
I looked over and said, "Neither, no pet food you buy here is worth the bag its stored in"
She just looked at me as if I was an idiot... I guess since the shelf stocker recommended the Beneful, it was indeed the best food:shrug:
I complained about how it shouldnt even be legal to sell foods like that, nor Count Chocula, pop tarts ( and I kept on going and going about crappy quick foods that people feed either their pets or their kids)
Its true though, they always look so damn proud.... as though they have just found the most nutritional bargain ( $7 for 40lb bag of No Name dog food)
May 16th, 2007, 09:26 PM
I've often been tempted to sneak in and put sticky notes on all the crap food shelves.... Would you feed your kids nothing but Count Chocula? (no milk included). Why would you feed your dog/cat the nutritional equivalent??:eek:
May 16th, 2007, 09:27 PM
nor Count Chocula, pop tarts
But I like Pop tarts :sad:
May 16th, 2007, 09:30 PM
But I like Pop tarts :sad:
But you have the choice to eat them or not eat them. It really ticks me off when thats what parents feed their kids everyday for breakfast.
And Frenchy even if they are good... could you imagine eating them every day:sick: :eek:
It would probably result in the same thing as "super size me" :laughing:
May 16th, 2007, 09:32 PM
Every day, all day, pop tarts (or fill in the food of your choice) and nothing but pop tarts?? :eek:
May 16th, 2007, 09:33 PM
Yes , I don't buy them too often. And it does amaze me how cheap the dog food is, people should at least , get an idea.... :shrug:
May 16th, 2007, 09:36 PM
I think at one point they did have Iams cruelty stickers that you could put on bags if i'm not mistaken. That is a good idea. Making little stickers with scull and cross bones is definitely something i'd enjoy doing.:D
Its okay if you have pop tarts Frenchy, its just if we find out thats all you're eating then we'll come kick you butt.
May 16th, 2007, 09:42 PM
Its okay if you have pop tarts Frenchy, its just if we find out thats all you're eating then we'll come kick you butt.
May 16th, 2007, 09:55 PM
I was in the line up at Price Chopper and the lady in the other line was complaining about the $10.99 price of her 40 lb bag of Dog Chow!!! I loudly proclaimed to my mom that my dog's food costs 6 times that amount.
Another time I was buying the ingredients for my homemade food. A couple behind me was buying Beneful, the cashier was kinda looking oddly at my purchases (it is pretty gross), so, I said loud enough for the couple to hear that I make my own dog food because I don't trust the large companies anymore after the recall. The guy says "I called **** and they said that their food is fine". I turned to him and said "Yeah, but the majority of the food **** makes is garbage" and look at his bag, by that time though my purchase was done so I just picked up and left. Didn't want to get into too much of a brew ha.
May 16th, 2007, 10:01 PM
it's so sad, yeah. and most of these people have no idea, they watch the fun colorful lies (er, ads) on TV and totally believe it. they never think to read the ingredients, or question anything... then again, many of these people buy frozen dinners as a staple, and use McD as the other part of their diet :shrug:
May 16th, 2007, 10:47 PM
I was one of those people who used to buy IAMS and when my younger sammy refused to eat it I finally began to read dogfood labels. :eek: Oh my do I feel guilty!!! It wasn't because we couldn't afford it either. My husband had tried to talk me into feeding raw for years!! Just remember you have to take it one dog/person at a time. If you convert one person in feeding better quality food in your lifetime then you can save at least one dog. Just last month I helped a new puppy owner select a better quality puppy food and they couldn't be happier. The time to do it is when they ask you then it doesn't get ugly.
Someday, somehow the lightbulb goes on and another dog owner is converted.
May 17th, 2007, 05:42 AM
Yeah i had stopped at Zellers yesterday for cat litter. A small older women was trying to reach a bag of food on the top shelf. It was Iams i think..anyways i offered her assistance and grabbed the bag for her, but told her "These arent really the best quality foods". Little did i realize, she was an employee that was doing inventory. She agreed with me and said she buys her dog food at Global :D
May 17th, 2007, 06:26 AM
Lol Scott that is funny:D
May 17th, 2007, 09:42 AM
well ok.....hope I don't get flamed for this. But I am one of these people who purchases Purina Dog Chow. For those who don't know Zoe's long story of trying to switch foods I have it posted someone here. And I am willing to take a picture of my pantry that is full of opened bags of "grade A" dog food that she will not touch. And in my case I don't believe a dog will not stave itself because she did and I have the vet reciepts to prove that also.
So far after two years of trying to switch foods....she now gets a combination of real raw meat (that she sometimes eats and sometimes not)and maybe a half a cup of kibble ( some days she eats that and somedays she doesn't).
There is a way to be polite to people, some are not as up to date on dog food information as the people hear seem to be. Some feed there dogs the food because when they were small their childhood pets ate the same and those animals had a good life. Many different reasons.....many different foods...many different opinions.
If you approach someone in a rude, sarcastic manner how do you expect to get information across? If I was approached in such a manner I would think that the person spouting the comments was an uppity rude whatever.
Everyone has their own opinion, and not all situations are the way 'you" think they are. I am all for information, I have done a ton of research myself.......but think before you speak. If it is not going to come out in a nice way better off to say nothing at all.
May 17th, 2007, 10:19 AM
I think it's easy for us - those of us who know what food is good and what isn't - to fall into a kind of "elite -ism" or "better-than-you-ism" - and yes, laugh at stupid people who buy up all the $hit that the Wool-Marts are selling..........
Fact is, the "average" pet "owner" doesn't have a clue about what's in the food they're buying......
Yet, it's not that they don't care.....they just don't f'ing know!
AND, if they knew, many....maybe even most...would want to make a change!
Why don't they know?
They're brainwashed by manufacturers....
The lack of good media coverage in Canadian mainstream media...(the Toronto Suns of the world)
The small amount of negative info they get appears to be so outrageous that it isn't believable
So.....if we really care about animals (because, it's the animals that are the victims here)......why not do something that just might make a little difference?
If you had a little handout tucked away in your wallet/purse....with information links to reputable, credible, believable organizations /agencies (the kinds of places that the average Joe/Jane already trusts) where they could learn the truth that we already know....AND...if those average people could see you as a friendly/helpful/concerned pet parent yourself (as opposed to a snobby/snarky/snotty/better-than-them).....they might just take your little handout, and MAYBE, JUST MAYBE YOU WILL HAVE MADE A DIFFERENCE.
(If anyone is offended by my descriptions above, I am sorry and want to say that it isn't my intention to flame you.....I'm trying to explain how others can sometimes see us.)
Anyone want to input on the content for a handout?
(my first thoughts: a 2 inch strip of bright-colored paper, a "catchy" headline and a small number of URL's to mainstream, reputable websites that post the easiest-to-read versions of "What's Really in Pet Food" ....AND..."What To Look For In A Pet Food")
May 17th, 2007, 12:27 PM
Usually I refrain from posting on this issue. While I feed a pretty high priced holistic food, and have read lots on ingredients - good and bad and consider myself much more knowledgeable than I was a couple of years ago, for 30 years we fed Purina Dog Chow, and our dogs had very few ailments. Let's face it, there wasn't the choice we have today either.
I don't think a handout would be a good idea for a lot of people because many cannot afford the higher priced foods even if they were well informed and wanted to go that route. It is no different with human food - i.e. some might eat hamburger while others dine on prime rib. Oh, I know the animals cannot make that choice, but if the owners cannot afford the best food does that mean they shouldn't have a pet? We keep referring to people not being informed, but income plays a major part here, I think.
May 17th, 2007, 12:39 PM
um.... if you cannot afford to properly care for a pet (vet bills, innoculations, tags, training, and YES GOOD FOOD) then you shouldn't own one IMO :shrug:
May 17th, 2007, 12:49 PM
I think there are more people that have been educated on dog and cat food than normally would have been because of the whole pet food scare thing. And while there are a lot of crap pet foods out there, there's no doubt that a lot of animals are being fed these foods and are thriving on them. My parents had a cat that was almost 30 before she died and she ate nothing but grocery store food. Not everyone can afford the better brands, and there are a lot who really do think they're feeding their animals a good diet. Some of them even endorsed by the Canadian Vetrinary Association, so what would make them think any different. :shrug: Point being regardless of what these animals are being fed, at least they are being fed, and loved and cared for, considering all the unloved self sufficient ferrals or neglected roaming dogs out there, in my opinion that's a good thing. ;) My cats eat a very good kibble, but when it comes to wet food, fancy feast or friskies is all they will touch, along with home cooked turkey and ham and whatever else I have, and I've tried everything that's supposed to be better. So far I've had my first 2 cats make it to 18 on that and kibble that was crap before I knew better. If you want to educate people, take out ads in papers, have your own blogs, direct them to the food section of this site, encourage some of these grocery stores and pet chains to supply the better foods. No need to come on to shopping pet owners with an I know everything and you know nothing attitude, you're only going to tick them off and they won't believe you anyway. I certainly wouldn't appreciate anyone coming up to me, and I'd be sure to tell you to mind your own buisiness.
May 17th, 2007, 12:54 PM
there's no doubt that a lot of animals are being fed these foods and are thriving on them.
not thriving, not true. Just because a cat or dog here or there is the exception, does not mean the hundreds of thousands of other pets are doing as well. if that were the case, there would not be so many sick and diseased pets around clogging the vet's waiting rooms. the cases of young diabetes, obesity, tooth decay, kidney failure, cancer, arthritis, allergies, and i pass -have skyrocketed the past few decades and it's not a coincidence either - rotten petfoods cause rotten health in most of the pets who eat it. simple. :pawprint:
May 17th, 2007, 12:55 PM
If only people who could afford pets were allowed to keep them, there would be thousand more animals in shelters than there are now.
Same should apply to people being allowed to have children, idealistic but it's rather unrealistic don't you think?
May 17th, 2007, 12:56 PM
So, Mississauga's out..........
May 17th, 2007, 12:59 PM
If only people who could afford pets were allowed to keep them, there would be thousand more animals in shelters than there are now
no, because stupid people wouldn't be breeding all these pets in the first place... you don,t breed what you don't have. ;) it would all balance out. And if you're too poor (or too cheap!) to afford a basic thing like a good pet food, what's going to happen if your pet needs medical attention? vet's cost a bundle in most cases... hmmm. maybe that's another reason we see so many pets dumped at the shelter. "couldn't afford vet care / meds / trainer" :mad:
May 17th, 2007, 12:59 PM
Well then you're just closing your eyes and choosing to see what you like in my opinion. I've seen more than a few animals thrive to long lives on the crap foods, and while I for sure know that there are far better foods out there and I feed mine knowing what is best, I can't deny these other animals exist, I have seen them, and I still say a cared for and loved animal regardless of what it's being fed is a good thing.
May 17th, 2007, 12:59 PM
I was in a pet supply store once, and a guy went up to one of the employees and asked what "the best" puppy food was. The employee said "Science Diet!" :yuck: and was going on and on about how great it is...I wanted to go over to the guy after the employee left and tell him how to find a good food, as he was obviously interested in finding a good food for his puppy, but the cashier was ringing up my purchases. This was in petco, they had natural balance and a couple other "ok" foods, and the employees push the science diet...
In the grocery store, I don't even like to look in the pet food aisle, it's basically one giant Beneful display now. Plus they have a new food in the supermarket called "The Good Life" that has ads that go on and on about how it "doesn't have any added artificial flavors or additives that pets don't need"...yet is is filled with artificial colors and fillers! I think advertisement for a lot of the lower quality pet foods is very misleading. Pedigree says "no fillers" on their bags. Beneful talks about how healthy it is. Iams talks about itself as if it's the greatest food out there, as does Purina. Purina has those commercials telling you to feed Purina Dog Chow to add an extra 2 years to your dog's life, what they are really talking about is the study they did with restricting calories, but they make it sound like just feeding your pet dog chow will add extra years to its life.
I have thought of making up "how to choose a good pet food" pamphlets and handing them out to adopters and the public...I think if people were educated they would probably feed a better food. Most of them probably aren't even aware there are better foods out there, all they see are the foods in the grocery store and on tv.
May 17th, 2007, 01:02 PM
I've seen more than a few animals thrive to long lives on the crap foods
ok... please describe "thrive" :rolleyes: and how many are "more than a few animals"? what were they eating actually? and exactly? what kind of pets? what kind of medical attention did they get over a lifetime?
maybe your version of "thrive" is not like mine. :shrug:
May 17th, 2007, 01:04 PM
Technodoll, I'm not going to fight with you, we'll have to agree to disagree :p
May 17th, 2007, 01:07 PM
My dogs thrived on crap food. They went to the vet every two weeks for ear infections and/or diarrhea, but to me, they were thriving. It was only when I switched them to a wayyyyyyy better food that I saw what I had been doing to them.
Thrive? Hmm. Not sure. Survive? Definitely.
Now my doggies don't go to the vet every 2 weeks anymore and to me, that's worth any difference in price AND all the time I spent researching it.
The bottom line is, we can't all be George Burns, and our pets can't be expected to thrive on the excrement left over from the food we manufacture.
May 17th, 2007, 01:10 PM
Technodoll, I'm not going to fight with you, we'll have to agree to disagree
nobody wants to fight :o i'd just like to know more about what you meant, that's all. if you put forth a statement, it would be nice if you could back it up :shrug:
May 17th, 2007, 01:14 PM
Yeah, my cats lived on Medical and hills for 5 years or so. Duke had constant watery eyes. I was told it was a problem with his tear ducts. As soon as i switched to Felidae and then to Evo, his eyes stopped watering. His once nice coat, got 2x better. His energy increased. It was totally worth it!
May 17th, 2007, 01:22 PM
Thrive as in happy healthy, long lived, regular trips to the vet loved family pets. Dogs and cats. Dogs that were fed dog chow and alpo :yuck: , gains burgers, do you remember those things, they don't still make them do they?. The lab cross died at 17, the doberman was 15, an irish setter who was 15 with the most beautiful shiny auburn coat, a collie shepherd cross 18 a shepherd hound cross at 14. 2 cats over 18, another 2 over 22 and 1 more almost 30. I have no reason to lie about these animals, they all belonged to friends and family and I knew all of these animals over my lifetime. My parents were'nt well off and they had us and animals too, cared about us and the animals too, the doberman and irish setter belonged to a well off woman who I worked with for 10 years, she loved those dogs, but believed purina dog chow couldn't be beat. :laughing: The lab cross ate nothing but Alpo and had to be put down at 17 because of congestive heart failure. No one of these animals died of cancer, and to boot they all lived in houses with smokers. :rolleyes: Go figure.
I know where you're coming from, I understand why your so passionate about it, but I still think you're being naive if you think it's only the food that people are feeding their pets are causing cancer, water, air, environment all gotta take a hit there too, and a pet with a poor person who cares about it is better off than one with a rich person who doesn't give a damn. Understand, only my opinion.
Again, I'm sure we'll agree to disagree, that's what makes the world go round.
May 17th, 2007, 01:27 PM
Hmmm this is a touchy issue, I didn't mean to offend anyone. I was just looking for suggestions of how to politely bring this up at like a checkout stand. I would never be rude or self-righteous about it, just suggesting that a food isn't very healthy could be enough to get someone on the defensive. I think maybe starting a friendly chat, asking what type of cat or dog they have might be a better place to start. If they start asking you what you feed you could say well this is what I do because etc. Wait for an appropriate opening.
I do like the idea of stickers too because they are less confrontational.:)
And yes I am one of those people that cannot afford to have pets at this point in my life. I sacrificed my own health for my cats so they could eat expensive vet food and have vet visits.:sad: My choice is to not have them again until I can take care of myself and have enough left over to provide proper care. I guess this is one of the reasons I find the issue so frustating.
May 17th, 2007, 01:28 PM
Well, there you go then. So I'll quit spending money on good food and just let Jemma and Boo rummage through the trash. Why waste all that money on them? They're just dogs. They can eat their own species. Who cares?
Here Boo, have a bite of Baxter's leg.
May 17th, 2007, 01:30 PM
thanks clm :) i believe those were exceptional pets though, and not the norm... if it were the norm, nobody here would be bashing the crappy foods, we'd be recommending them instead :o
May 17th, 2007, 01:34 PM
LOl this is terrible.:p My cats also "survived" on and lived long lives but they were not healthy.
May 17th, 2007, 01:46 PM
I've asked (and continue to do so) my grocery store to start carrying healthier foods, and I've even given them name brands I'd like to see in the store. It would make my life so much easier! To be able to get the dog/cat food while I'm there shopping anyways, and not have to make a seperate trip to a feed store or high end pet supply store.
All of my pestering is paying off though, slowly, I've noticed better choices at the grocery store. I've recently seen treats available that are all natural and organic. I've even seen displays & special offers for the organic dog biscuits. They haven't started stocking the high quality kibble or can food yet, but chances are if there is enough of a demand for it, it will happen.
Instead of pestering other shoppers, pester the grocery store. Continually ask for better products, and encourage your friends and family who shop the same store to do so too.
btw, I choose to feed my pets high quality foods, however, I still believe that grocery store food is better than no food at all. For some it's really the best they can do. at one point my parents couldn't afford steak so we ate crappy hamburg or cheap stuff like tuna casserole. and as mom always said, "there are starving childen elsewhere in the world, be thankfull you at least have this". likewise, there are starving pets and strays in this world, be thankfull at least some are getting the crappy food.
May 17th, 2007, 01:54 PM
There's always something better than feeding dogs and cats though. Do you really think if people REALLY knew what was in the food (i.e. dogs and cats) that they'd continue to feed it? Cost really isn't the main issue if these people research anything at all. I've done the math already for my two. It cost the same thing for crap food + vet bills as good food + vet bills. The vet bills on the crap food were just high enough to cover the cost difference for a better food. :shrug:
For some it's really the best they can do. Maybe. But for MOST, they just don't know better. How many people come here thinking Iams is a good food? They have no idea. :shrug: If you talk to vets, watch tv, Iams, Purina, etc are the best. And THAT's the problem.
May 17th, 2007, 02:13 PM
at one point my parents couldn't afford steak so we ate crappy hamburg or cheap stuff like tuna casserole. and as mom always said, "there are starving childen elsewhere in the world, be thankfull you at least have this". likewise, there are starving pets and strays in this world, be thankfull at least some are getting the crappy food.There are starving adults and children in Candada too. I was one of them and I'm not thankful because we are not living in a third world country. There is no reason for anyone to be going without here or anywhere else. I've never even purchased steak and rarely even ate tuna when I was living on $500 dollars a month. $70 dollars for all expenses after rent and phone but there was no way I was going to purchase a box of meow mix.:shrug: You'd be better off buying some sardines because it would actually be cheaper.:P
May 17th, 2007, 02:15 PM
Earlier I said I refrain from posting on this topic, and now I see the reason why. Some think THEIR way is the only way. I said earlier, while I pay for a holistic food more expensive than most, my earlier dogs (who incidentally, I loved just as dearly) ate Purina Dog Chow and had much less problems than dogs I have had who are fed better foods - no runny eyes, no hot spots and so on.
My next door neighbours at the lake had a Husky who lived to 17, and he was fed nothing but Ole Roy (not sure of spelling as I have never seen it), and he was never sick. Chief was a dog who refused to stay inside (true to his breed).
Myself, I think everyone who has a pet should be able to afford vet bills, but then not everyone is in the same position. I just had Montana at the vet this morning for a Wellness checkup, heart worm test, meds and Lepto booster as we live adjacent to a ravine, and it was $267. I think there should be less expensive rates for those who are not in a position to pay as much as I can.
For people with less money and knowledge than perhaps some of us on these boards, I am sure their love for their fur kids is no less than ours.
May 17th, 2007, 02:23 PM
: um.... if you cannot afford to properly care for a pet (vet bills, innoculations, tags, training, and YES GOOD FOOD) then you shouldn't own one IMO :shrug:
:confused: ummm my dog is spayed, all innoculatons (including 3 rounds when she was a pup), two trips to the vet because of unleashed dog attacks, properly licsened with the city, three rounds of obediance training, gets walked twice daily ( plus other excersice), gets loved daily, properly groomed and looked after.....she is three years old, in excellent physical condition, at her ideal weight, heathtly coat.....no medical problems........and you suggest that I shouldn't own one because of the food I buy???
Well I just I could buy the most expensive food possible, and leave my dog alone all day in a crate, or let her run loose and cause problems, but as long as she is fed properly that would make me a GOOD dog owner.:laughing:
May 17th, 2007, 02:28 PM
You know, I had pretty healthy pets too, growing up, and they ate crappy no name food (I have no idea what, I don't remember) as well as table scraps. Heck, lots of them even ate horse manure on a regular basis lol.
I think that just as with children today, pets today have lots more allergies and things that necessitate a different diet for health. I mean, Prin's dogs and my Maia couldn't thrive off crap food because of their sensitivities... but I think that my Sam could easily do so. He refuses most 'quality' foods anyway.
Years ago, that was the best we had and dogs did just fine... lived long lives, etc (And no, I don't think they were the exception to the rule at all). But now I think we live in a different world, and certainly there are better choices out there... but some dogs are hardy and would do well no matter what they were eating I think, while others you can really see a difference as soon as you switch.
That said, I don't think accosting people in grocery stores is the way to get the word out lol.
May 17th, 2007, 02:30 PM
LOL dogcatharmony, not YOU! :D your case is very special, you have to admit :p i'm talking about the "$11.99 for 45 lbs of brand X dog food is good enough for my pet, cuz otherwise i wouldn't have any $$ for the chips and soda for my kids" :rolleyes: :frustrated:
i remember our cats (when i was a kid...) ate friskies and meow mix and is that why they were always shedding, stinky, had bad breath, fleas and dandruff and ear mites and UTIs and the list goes on? hmmmmmmmmmm.
May 17th, 2007, 02:32 PM
My dobie lived till 13 on dog chow. But you look at pics now of what I thought was a healthy dog then, and he just wasn't. His fur had no shine to it. The color was dull. His teeth were horrible (I remember him going under a few times for cleanings). And at 6 years old, he had nowhere near the energy and fitness that Jemma and Boo have.
There also probably weren't puppymills pumping out most of the pets back then either. I have no doubt that some of the dogs I meet who I know come from mills aren't healthy because of their breeding.
Do you think Jemma's breeder cared about genetics? Heck no! Do you think they cared period? Heck no! But my dobie came from one of the best breeders in Quebec at the time. :shrug: Apples and oranges.
May 17th, 2007, 02:35 PM
I can't afford the vet bills...I'm feeding the crap food...I'm aware of these facts in life.
Would anyone really want me to end up splitting my two boys? Have them go to separate homes and end up with separation issues? That's what would likely happen to them if I gave them up.
No I can't afford much and no I can't afford good food. My parents can't afford the good food either. On top of it all if I were to go with a different food it would have to be an ALLERGY formula which is even worse on one's pocket book. Why? Pawz is allergic to chicken and Leo's allergic to beef. When I signed up for the cats I wasn't counting on either of those things. :shrug:
But I love them. I care for them as best as I can. They're happy here (though they need sturdier toys....too bad dog toys are too big). They love me and I love them. They get lots of love and cuddles and play time. They get dollar store laser pointers and enough catnip balls to make a fort out of.
When I finally get my feet under me and my finances in some sort of stability (ha ha!) I'll put money aside for the cats. For the vet bills. For the random emergencies. THEN I'll worry about the food. THEN I'll worry about paying $80 a month for food for my cats so they can eat it without a wee bit of mushyness out the other end.
May 17th, 2007, 02:37 PM
megan... it would be cheap for you to feed them a home diet. really. cook up a bunch of cheap leftover meats, sardines from the dollar store, leftover veggies you don't eat, add a bit of rice, mush it up... nowhere near $80 per month and you'd no doubt save on vet bills... just a thought :o
May 17th, 2007, 02:40 PM
I spend more on high speed internet and phone bills than I do on the best kibble on the market. Just food for thought (because I know we all have internet).
May 17th, 2007, 02:54 PM
Not to mention the fact that the better food gets feed less and so it lasts longer! There is less waste. There are just so many reasons why a better food is better.
But, no matter what, you'll have people who feed cheap food. Not only because they're uninformed, but many dont care. I mean honestly, we can explain why foods are crappy, what the ingreidents mean, etc, but at the end of the day, how may actually switch? Either they don't believe it, think their pet is fine, or just don't care. :shrug:
May 17th, 2007, 04:56 PM
megan... it would be cheap for you to feed them a home diet. really. cook up a bunch of cheap leftover meats, sardines from the dollar store, leftover veggies you don't eat, add a bit of rice, mush it up... nowhere near $80 per month and you'd no doubt save on vet bills... just a thought Yes this is so true. I wonder if you couldn't do a big mash of stuff and make little freezer bags, heat up in microwave and maybe garnish with a little fresh sardine or tuna juice. I don't think it would be too time consuming either if you did it like that. (no pressure of course):) I'm learning that I don't want to cook for my b/f all the time and freezing stuff seems to be the only solution to get him to eat healthier. I just get so excited thinking about all that low cost organ meat going into happy healthy kittys and dogs.:cloud9:
Either they don't believe it, think their pet is fine, or just don't care.:shrug: That about sums it up I guess.
May 17th, 2007, 10:07 PM
Either they don't believe it, think their pet is fine, or just don't careI agree. I just have a hard time empathizing with most people about the cost. I mean, everybody around here knows how much I've struggled since I stopped working and went back to school. We were basically living on one income for the summer and next to nothing for the winter and we still managed to keep the dogs on the food they needed. It's all about priorities. We don't drink or buy clothes or shoes or any of that because we choose to care for our dogs instead. If it's a priority, it can be done pretty easily.:shrug:
May 18th, 2007, 12:01 AM
I don't think I have ever heard of **** sounds like my cats are not missing anything - but it amazes me even more after this recent scare that people would be buying this junk!! And I so agree!! I want to tell these people what junk they are buying but I tend to stay away from that aisle - tho there is one Price XChopper that sometimes has cat toys on sale!
May 18th, 2007, 01:41 AM
I think the better foods are becoming more popular. Popular enough for some of them to be in some stores like Rens and even some pet values carry some of the better lines, the more exposure they get and the more popular they become then these smaller quality food producers will have the means to afford the listing fees for the larger stores like the wal-marts and the pet chains and food chains. For more people to buy them, they have to be available to the masses in a mass shopping environment, a lot of people want and expect one stop shopping.
Pestering these stores to invite these lines of food is another way to go, the price of these foods would come down over time as well the more popular they get.
Pestering vets to carry some of these quality foods or at least carry literature on the better foods, we all have access to our vets. Hassle them every visit. Take them a sample bag of the food you're feeding. It would be good if the manufacturers of the quality foods provided literature for the vets to carry in their offices about their foods.
It's happening albeit slowly, more and more people are learning about pet food. Not fast enough, but it is happening, just gotta keep whatever learning momentum that happened from the pet food recall from fizzleing out.
May 18th, 2007, 02:10 AM
Ya this is probably the best time to be requesting better foods in the grocery stores. I've also noticed just in the past few years that London Drugs has been stocking more and more "alternative" organic products along side the standard ones and they seem to do well. I suspect there will definitely be some people happy to have another choice if its right in front of them.
May 18th, 2007, 09:46 AM
PLEASE let's keep this and similar threads civil!
It's nice to share our knowledge but let's be polite when educating people.
People can share the world's best knowledge but if it is done rudely or in a way where people feel demeaned...nobody will hear, nobody will listen.
There is no BEST method. It's what is best for me and my pets in my situation. Everbody's 'way' is different. If you want to educate people with your method - please be diplomatic.
Thanks in advance!
May 18th, 2007, 01:35 PM
Look...there's NO problem with the **** dog food that I feed Hunter! Nothing!!!!!!
Although when I first started out, I was one of those people who fed **** for a couple of months and then I did some research, found this forum, got some good advice and began buying the good stuff for Hunter. I think most pet owners start out like myself believing that ******* etc. are the good stuff and the brands such as Solid Gold are crap because they're not advertised. People just need to get educated (like I recently did with cat food). I always try to buy different meats and veggies from grocery stores and make something (different) for Hunter (because who wants to eat the same thing day in and day out?), but regrettably there isn't always enough time.
It was really funny at the grocery store here in Charlottetown a couple of weeks back, I was at the check-out and the lady in front of me bought some crap brand of cat food that was on sale and when the sale price wasn't showing up she started b!tching about it and how expensive it was etc. Sometimes I wonder what they feed their kids everyday...
May 18th, 2007, 01:51 PM
I have to agree with Marko about the diplomacy if you feel the need to say something!
On occasion usually when at Wally World if I see someone grabbing a big ***** I usually will say
" can I give you my opinion on the dog food your about to buy?"
Sometimes they say no or give a sneer and walk away ect but most of the time they do say Yes :)
I let them know what I have learned short version of course and then say Thanks for listening and then let them make their own minds up.
Some drop the bag and leave, some don't hopefully they go home and think about it and maybe even go online and learn more or take my suggestion and go talk to a person at a smaller holistic pet store and get more info!
IMO if your confrontational then the people will not listen at all and then just defeats the purpose of what you try to do!
May 18th, 2007, 02:03 PM
some holistic petstores have brochures or photocopied texts on how to choose a better pet food, maybe ask for some copies and keep those handy for such occasions? some people believe the written word more than anything... just a thought :)
May 18th, 2007, 06:20 PM
Yes the written word, thats a good idea. Brochures usually have pretty pictures too.:)
Everyone is entitled to chose how they feed thier pet, however I think we need to remember that they have no choice in the matter. If we decide to give them something that is poor quality and deny to ourselves and others we are doing it, then I think there will certainly be some debate. There are obviously some exceptions to the rule and situations that are not so black and white. Hopefully we can all be wise enough to identify those situations.
A vet tech at one point was quite rude to me about feeding dry after I said my cat didn't want to eat the Medi-Cal wet. This is what she said, I kid you not "kibble is just like potato chips and given the chance we would all eat potato chips instead of healthy food". I had already been convinced to think Medi-Cal was the best money could buy plus it didn't make sense that if Medi-Cal was so great the dry would somehow be "potato chips":confused:. Now this would have been a great opportunity for her to enlighten me about the high carbohydrate content and the fact that cats are carnivores etc...So I think I can relate to both sides of the coin. Once someone understands healthy eating E.g. eating more veggies, whole grains, lean meats then it really shouldn't be any leap to recognize that it is not much different for any other mammal. If someone is offended by a suggestion to feed/eat healthy(in a polite way of cousres) then maybe they need to consider why they are so upset? I think if someone is really comfortable with what they are feeding they won't get defensive but rather join in the discussions about nutrition.:o
May 18th, 2007, 06:27 PM
I think if someone is really comfortable with what they are feeding they won't get defensive but rather join in the discussions about nutrition
good point, maya... a very good point :thumbs up
May 19th, 2007, 11:43 AM
I am glad this subject came up. I have been known to stop people and start conversations with them in the store about food and supplies. I try and see if they look like they are in a mood or not before I talk to them though. If they seem like they are in a bad mood I usually don't try to talk because it never ends well. If I can not convince them that going to a feed store or pet supply store I at least try and help them pick the best thats there at that moment. And hopefully once they think about what was said they may look into better. But our problem in my town is nothing is available in our town for good food. I drive one hour away to get our cat's food. And I do that every 2 weeks or so for the canned and once a month for the dry. Yes its a pain to spend all that time just driving and I tell them that. But the benefits for the pets out weigh the cons.
I am going through this with my own mom. She hears me rave about how much better our cat is on the higher grade foods. But with her new puppy she wants to feed **** because its what she can get locally and not have to drive far to get. I have offered to pick the food up for her (better grade) when I get our food and then drive the next day 30 minutes away in opposite direction to take her the food. And all I ask is the reimburse me 1/2 the cost of the food so she is still not paying so much. We'll see what she says because she has not answered me yet.
Being calm and knowledgeable is better IMO then being defensive that you pay more than someone else.
May 19th, 2007, 11:52 AM
Point being regardless of what these animals are being fed, at least they are being fed, and loved and cared for, considering all the unloved self sufficient ferrals or neglected roaming dogs out there, in my opinion that's a good thing. ;) Cindy
Very well said clm :thumbs up I rather see a dog/cat like this than in a shelter about to be put down. And I had A LOT of fosters who been fed "crappy" food all their lifes, never had to go to the vet and were in perfect health. :shrug:
May 19th, 2007, 04:23 PM
I agree as well, clm.. well said.:highfive:
The motives beind educating others is certainly admirable, but talking with friends, family, or others online.. is not the same thing as approaching strangers in public. This is an area that is a minefield of "unknowns".
How are most going to interpret this,really? Are you more likely to educate them.. or just offend/and or anger them?
I'd be about as receptive to this myself as I would to someone taking it upon themselves to critique my own human food selections in the supermarket.:mad:
Giving them a pamphlet could be be helpful:fingerscr they are more likely to at consider the printed word.. look at it later, without feeling called upon to explain the "whys" for their choices.
Some may truly not know, not care, but others do know and do care. They simply have no other choice. No matter how tactful, pointing out the shortcomings of the food they use can carry the unspoken message that they are too stupid, uniformed or uncaring to "do better".
People on a very limited budget are often denied many pleasures in life that other take for granted.. vacations, vehicles, restaurant meals, even a computer and internet.
Would it be right that they also be denied the joys and comfort of having pets, based only on ability to feed top of the line food?
And how many more shelter animals would there be, if this became a defining factor? Sorry, you're too poor for pets. Good diet is important of course.. but we'd all agree that it's only one part of the equation. It certainly isnt any guarantee of the total care recieved.
I know people who are in a very tight financial situation, living on a disablity pension. Their pets are well cared for, receive tons of loving personal attention, and are excercised twice daily. Now at middle age, they remain healthy and happy, anyone would view them as thriving in this home.
When vet expenses arise.. they're not ignored. A financial strain, but one that is met through a loan, or a vet billing arrangement.
There primary pet food is not the best, but all they can afford. It's not a matter of budgeting.. the money is just not there.
When they have extra funds.. they buy better food. They supplement with home cooked food to increase nutrition received.
Based on all the positives they offer that their pets benefit from, to me they qualify as responsible and good pet owners.
You might see them in Walmart. They have lots of company out there.:)
May 19th, 2007, 04:59 PM
They simply have no other choice. No matter how tactful, pointing out the shortcomings of the food they use can carry the unspoken message that they are too stupid, uniformed or uncaring to "do better"That is true and very frustrating. I am on a low income, disability in fact and in no way can even follow Dr recommended diet for myself. I don't really know how other people survive on disability alone and have pets, its a bit of a mystery. What is the going rate now for something like meow mix? Does anyone know? It really does seem to me that something like sardines and or organ meat would be cheaper. I lived off of brown rice and beans for years while most people I met on low income opted for KD which is much more expensive and very unhealthy. Just a bit more food for thought on the subject.:) Btw my roomy pays the internet and the computer I have was from a grant for people that are disabled (took three years of work to qualify:evil:). I'm too poor for pets.:sad:
May 19th, 2007, 05:06 PM
Btw my roomy pays the internet and the computer I have was from a grant for people that are disabled (took three years of work to qualify:evil:). I'm too poor for pets.:sad:
And that's another thing , people saying this person has this or that so should be able to pay more for their pet's food. They don't know the other people's life, their income and such. I too have a computer that was given to me, and I pay $14.95 monthly for my internet connection. So it's pretty unfair to judge people with these kinds of comments :shrug:
May 19th, 2007, 05:14 PM
Going rate for Meow Mix. Been awhile since I even looked at them.
Online at Petsmart 12 tubs of wet is 10.99
Online at Petco the regular packs are 24 for 11.99 and a 12 case 4.79 and a bag is anywhere for 4.79 to 12.99.
I buy Eagle Pack for the wet. I can get 6 cans for a little over 6.00 and that lasts about 12 days. I buy TimberWolf for the dry and 1 4lb bag costs 10.00 roughly and lasts a month (or close to it).
We don't make a lot of money but the better food seems to last longer than the cheaper stuff I was buying. This may not be the same for everyone especially if they have more than one pet.
May 19th, 2007, 05:20 PM
Thank you, Maya and Frenchy, because while I can afford to feed my dog a better food now, I believe love for a pet and feeding the best your budget will afford will surpass feeding those foods the highest on the list. I do not think we should become too elite - as long as we do the best we can, our fur kids will love us. It is good to be well educated. I come from a university environment, but I think love surpasses everything.
May 19th, 2007, 05:40 PM
some people love their dogs very much... yet still chain them to a doghouse in the back of the yard 24/7 :shrug: do they know better? do they care? dunno... but they still love their dog.
sometimes love is NOT enough. :sad:
May 19th, 2007, 08:13 PM
I agree with Clm and Shamrock, Thank You for writing excellent posts. :thumbs up
May 19th, 2007, 10:55 PM
OK so I am going to put my :2cents: in. When I was younger and lived a home we fed our hunting dogs dog chow and table scraps. Never had any problems with them. No allergies, no coat problems nothing. They all lived until it was their time. With Akeija, I fed her dog chow also until i switched her to performatrin ultra. No problems with her, she lived until she was 16. Sophie DVP duck and potato from Purina she was on all her life....allergies and hot spots after I put her on a high quality food died from enlarged heart. Missie on high quality foods, many food changes...colitis, Tyra from Purina (for the first 7 years of her life) to high quality foods..gastro problems now and got allergies, now she can only tolerate vet food with out getting slimy poops. Now Tyra is a Canadian American Champion and I have her vet records. No gastro problems until I introduced a better food. Yes there is good food and crappy food out there but sometimes the crappy food works. You can always add veggies and chopped meat. Gots me flame suit on.
May 19th, 2007, 11:04 PM
hmm sounds like you just got unlucky with a few genetically-weak dogs... :sorry: no contest, MOST dogs on better foods fare much better than dogs on crappy foods. just like kids, feeding them a diet high in sugar and fat will most likely lead to more health problems than if they eat a lean diet high in fruits, veggies, fiber, etc. it's just logical :shrug:
many people have the opposite experience you have: dogs were on cheap foods with innumerable ailments and afflictions, but after being switched to a better diet, these same pets are in much better health and have less (or no!) allergies, recurring infections of ear and bladder, ibd, diabeties, obesity, bad teeth, etc.
May 19th, 2007, 11:35 PM
Technodoll, I have to agree, far more pressure on companies to get that bottom line. Hence the whole recall fiasco. :sad: Hard lesson learned for a lot of companies and a lot of people. On a positive note, it made me a whole lot more aware of what was going into my pets bellies. :D
May 19th, 2007, 11:38 PM
many people have the opposite experience you have: dogs were on cheap foods with innumerable ailments and afflictions, but after being switched to a better diet, these same pets are in much better health and have less (or no!) allergies, recurring infections of ear and bladder, ibd, diabeties, obesity, bad teeth, etc. Yep. That's Jemma and Boo. When we got Boo, I didn't know better and I fed Iams chicken. He threw up EVERY night for 4 months. After countless vet trips, antibiotic shots and pills, we finally figured out it was the chicken doing it, so we put him on Euk lamb and rice. Then we got Jemma. Both did ok on lamb and rice but seemed to be always itchy. Not itchy enough to need a vet visit, but itchy enough for us to realize we had to do something. So I looked for a food without any of the common ingredients to any food they had had before and I found Solid Gold. I put them on Wolf king and they flourished. They had shiny soft coats they had never had before. They had energy they never had before. And they didn't go to the vet for little things anymore. They were just healthier overall. I didn't expect it. I really didn't.
The problem is, people think just switching to a better food will work for their dog and make them shinier and healthier, but that's not always the case. If I switch Boo to Evo chicken, he'll be up all night puking again.
So let's say I had him on Euk Lamb and Rice, and he was doing fine-ish. And then I decide to go one up and give him Evo chicken, not knowing he had a food allergy/intolerance to chicken. Right away, I'd assume that he just can't handle the holistic food. That's not true, right? Just because the ingredients are better, it doesn't mean a particular food is "the one" for your dog. Nearly ALL crap foods are "the one" and work because they're full of additives that make it so that your dog barely digests it on its own. Even if your dog has a food intolerance, it will STILL digest the food. When Boo puked on Iams, he didn't puke the food up. He threw up bile only. Only when he had better foods with chicken later on (by accident) did he throw up the food. The Iams just digested itself faster than his body reacted to it.
I do feel strongly about this because there isn't a person I meet who doesn't comment on my dogs' coats. They are softer than any dog I've ever met and shinier too. I MUST be doing something right. I also feel strongly because I have made food a priority. My man and I don't go anywhere, we don't travel, we don't eat out very often, we don't go to movies, we cut, budget, and save wherever we can. Our dogs ARE our luxury and our hobby. We put everything into them.
I hate when people bring up budget yet they still have cable, still smoke, still have sporty cars with high insurance costs, still have a mortgage instead of a rent, etc etc etc. The money is THERE, you just choose to spend it elsewhere. That's FINE. It really is. But don't tell me you don't have the money. I had next to no money and I still had the money for good food for my dogs. I just don't buy it. :rolleyes:
May 20th, 2007, 12:04 AM
He he I've got my torch ready.:evil: Just kidding.:D You can always add veggies and chopped meat. Gots me flame suit on.That is a good point. I should hope there are not too many doggies and kitties subsisting on corn meal gluten, flavour and by products alone.:sad: I was just at the grocery store looking at lables and I think there could very well be more protien in a can of sardines than there is in a whole bag of some of those cheaper foods.:sad:
The problem is, people think just switching to a better food will work for their dog and make them shinier and healthier, but that's not always the case. If I switch Boo to Evo chicken, he'll be up all night puking again.That is soooo true, another reason why it is not a black and white issue. I also do agree it is a priority thing for most (not all) people. If the money is going to obvious luxuries. I feel like I can be pretty candid about this since I've lived like a dog.:dog::P
Online at Petsmart 12 tubs of wet is 10.99
Online at Petco the regular packs are 24 for 11.99 and a 12 case 4.79 and a bag is anywhere for 4.79 to 12.99.Thanks for checking that I was curious what the range was. So it looks like you could certainly purchase the "raw" supplies for about the same or less. I guess it would come down to time and interest.
May 20th, 2007, 01:05 AM
Well I hope you don't think Missie and Tyra are getting crappy food, They get high quality food and I also treat them to organic beef, chicken, eggs and fish. Fresh veggies and fruits also. I make them home made treats and after a year of dabbling I have all the ailments under control. The colitis is just like humans get and when Missie gets stressed it acts up. Tyra on the other hand is doing 110 % better. I tried the raw diet on her and boy did she puke on that. She would not go back to it. My dogs are not genetically weak, Sophie contacted a virus and it affected her heart. Sophie and Tyra were top producers and they had all the genetic testing done because they were show dogs. Tyra's father is an international champion and is used for breeding all over the world. 4 of Tyra's pups are USA and Canadian Champs and one of her pups is going for his international. Following his grandfather's foot steps in bettering the breed.
We all love our pets and do the best we can for them. I know my vet bill's for last year were over 7K. I spent a lot of money trying to save Sophie's life. I would do it all over again for her.
May 20th, 2007, 02:08 AM
I have to say I've always fed my animals high quality food but recently switched them to include more raw food. I am shocked :eek: how much less Dracko (GSD) is shedding. Not to mention how much less he poops. It is a lot more formed and easier to pick up.:p
And I agree with those that said an animal can "survive" on lower quality food, but not necessarily thrive. They can't tell us how they feel. So we don't really know.
May 20th, 2007, 06:24 PM
It's so true. We even see that with the holistic foods. They put out a great food and then gradually kill it to save money on production.:shrug:
That's actually a really good point. I believe someone earlier mentioned big chains getting on the holistic foods bandwagon but that's not necessarily a good thing like you would think.
There's a reason that ***** and other crappy brands are carried in large supermarkets, it's because they're willing to use crappy ingredients to cut costs.
When a large supermarket chain starts carrying a good food they'll eventually want the brand to start lowering their price (this is especially true of one major worldwide corporation, I think you all know who I mean).
The brand will either stick to their ethics, keep ingredients good and say no to lowering the price (which risks them being pulled from the shelves), or they'll start using crappy ingredients in order to stay competitive with other brands so the store will keep carrying their product.
Good holistic foods can either keep their product in smaller stores with a smaller customer base and charge more yet keep those great ingredients, or they can go to a more well known and easily accessable chain and cut costs yet sell to more people and gather a wider customer base.
Either way, the bottom line is the consumer. As long as you keep seeing so many people buying huge bags of foods such as Ol' Roy and complaining about the price the large chains will want to carry cheap crappy food rather than the good stuff. The chains want to cater to the largest amount of consumers possible, and in general people care mostly about their pocketbook.
Sure people like us would like better foods to be more conveniently accessable, but remember that convenience comes with a price (generally a drop in quality).That's why even if you want to find healthy and high quality food for yourself, such as organic food, you still often have to go to a smaller store to find it.
I'm not saying don't pull for bigger chains to carry better products, but since those of us who feed holistic foods are in the minority it won't necessarily have the outcome that we'd like.
May 20th, 2007, 06:29 PM
It will be interesting to see what happens to Nutro now that they've been bought out by Mars.
May 20th, 2007, 11:08 PM
This thread has run its course and will now be closed.