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*sigh* NB is out, food advice anybody?

Tommysmom
April 17th, 2007, 05:30 PM
Ok. So, no more Natural Balance venison formula, which Tommy LOVES and did really well on. He saw me put the bag away today and started crying cuz he wanted it :sad: .

We still have him on the Solid Gold Just a Wee Bit, which he loves, but it's just not enough. His poops suck on it alone. He really liked having two foods mixed together, and he ate really well - with just one he's not quite as interested.

So here's the problem... he seems to be allergic or sensitive to anything with any kind of poultry - chicken, turkey, chicken fat, anything. He might be allergic to lamb as well. He doesn't like duck formulas or anything that's mostly fish. I picked up some samples and he just sniffs them and leaves them alone, completely not interested. He likes nice, stinky foods with red meat apparently, lol.

It's not an emergency, as he is eating the Solid Gold, but I'd like to find him something else to mix that he likes. I've been looking at the Timberwolf Dakota Bison, but are there any other possibilities out there? Anything that's not going to be on a recall list for a little while, at least :frustrated: :frustrated: ?

Scott_B
April 17th, 2007, 05:38 PM
What about Canidae Lamb & rice?

Oh, FYI, chicken fat wont affect allergies like Chicken will.

Most allergies are caused by proteins, not fats.
A dog can be serious allergic to chicken, but not chicken fat.

So if their protein source is changed (i.e.. duck, fish, pork, etc)you can still use chicken fat in the foods. Cool eh?
Chicken fat is one of the best "fats" to use in a dog food.

Quote from a friend.

Tommysmom
April 17th, 2007, 05:42 PM
Ahhh... great news about the chicken fat! Thank you, I didn't know that. That opens a lot of doors, I've been avoiding any food with chicken fat in the list and most do have it. I'm trying to avoid lamb for a while because he was on it while he was sick and we don't know if it's related or not, so I thought I'd give it some time with him being healthy before reintroducing it to find out. The chicken fat info though helps HUGE - I've rejected a lot of foods thinking that he wouldn't be able to have them... Thank you :thumbs up !

rainbow
April 17th, 2007, 07:06 PM
I would go with the TO Dakota Bison or Wilderness Elk formulas. Wellness makes a canned Venison and Sweet Potato formula.

Prin
April 17th, 2007, 07:28 PM
Boo can't eat chicken fat either...:o

I agree with Rainbow. If you can get the TO, that would be the best option. Otherwise, there's Barking at the moon, but it's a little fishy too...

Wee bit is fishy though... He likes that, no? The DVP NB fish is icky. My doggies wouldn't eat it very quickly...:o

Tommysmom
April 17th, 2007, 11:04 PM
Thanks guys... TO dakota bison is probably gonna be the next one we try, I guess. He's fine with bison because that's in the wee bit, so hopefully he'll like it. If I can't find it, I know my local Ryans/Global will order it for me, they're great that way.

Prin, the wee bit seems to be just the right combination of fishy, I guess, LOL. He doesn't like fish and potato stuff or the fish only samples I got him, so maybe the bison in the wee bit makes it just the right stinky or something! I know the Solid Gold is made by Diamond too though, just like DVP, right? I wonder how safe it is... or anything, at this point. I can't do much until I get his blood test results tomorrow anyway :frustrated: .

Prin
April 17th, 2007, 11:17 PM
Yeah, that's what I was wondering too... I sent an email to Solid Gold asking them what they're doing... We'll see..

My doggies loved the Wolf King too. It was very tasty (similar to the wee bit). But like I said, the DVP- not so tasty.:D

Prin
April 17th, 2007, 11:36 PM
Just got this back from my (now favorite) Solid Gold person:

We actually sent some samples of food out for testing before the Natural Balance news, even though we do not have any suspicions of contamination. We have not received the results yet though.

Diamond Pet Products has assured us that the rice protein concentrate was purchased at the request of Natural Balance and only used in the recalled Natural Balance formulas. Rice protein concentrate and wheat gluten are not used in any Solid Gold products.

We have not had any reports of dogs or cats suffering acute kidney failure while eating Solid Gold foods.

Tommysmom
April 17th, 2007, 11:48 PM
Yay Prin, that's good news (for now at least!) :highfive: . So, Solid Gold is ok at the moment... I've emailed TO too, and Eagle Pack too cuz I have some of their samples here. Hopefully they'll have done some testing too - I really can't imagine the remaining food companies NOT testing now, they'd be horribly stupid not to, don't you think? :fingerscr

At least Tommy's urinalysis came back normal, so the vet thinks his blood will be ok, too... but there's at least one case he's seen today where the doggy had no symptoms at all, but had been on Natural Balance, and his urinalysis showed the melamine crystals:sad: .

Prin
April 17th, 2007, 11:55 PM
Aww... Poor doggy. I hope Tommy is ok... When did you get the food? If the recall is just foods from the past 2-3 weeks and you bought yours before, he might be fine...

Tommysmom
April 18th, 2007, 12:11 AM
I think Tommy's fine, I'll just feel much better once the tests are back. The food doesn't worry me so much, he's been working on the last bag for at least 2-3 weeks, and we had just bought a new one but not opened it yet. It's the treats that concern me... they haven't given out any dates for the venison cookie treats, and he's been eating those for months. The other doggy at the vet's had those, too - and the melamine in his system must have come from that, because the food stores around here say that they haven't even received bags of food with the September date codes on them yet and those are the ones where the rice protein concentrate was supposedly added. Who knows? I think Tommy's fine, and the vet thinks so too, but for how much longer? It's getting pretty scary out there for our little furbabies.

I mean, come on... the DVP was an allergy formula, limited protein sources... and they add an ingredient to the formula that isn't even listed on the bag? The gal on the phone didn't know quite what to say about that... you have doggies with ALLERGIES and you just add ingredients without saying anything? Come on... even without the contamination that's just wrong. We're all out there looking for wheat... and now rice protein concentrate... but what about all the other crap that's not listed? How do we look for the invisible stuff?:frustrated:

Prin
April 18th, 2007, 12:19 AM
Yeah, they've got 6 months to change the bags, so we've been told. But you're right, they shouldn't be changing the ingredients in allergy foods without telling people.

Tommysmom
April 18th, 2007, 12:24 AM
6 MONTHS to change the bags? Really? Sheeeeesh, that's a long time. I'd be ok with that though if they made the information available - put a notice on the website, throw a sticker on the bag, have a handout at the cash register, whatever. With Tommy's issues I check that stuff pretty closely though, and I'm always comparing ingredients of new potential foods against the ones he's on... I just did up a spreadsheet for all of the foods he's tried and their ingredients... and the rice protein did NOT appear on the DVP website until sometime in the last few days. That bugs me... just make the info available, if you think it's a good ingredient then you should have nothing to hide.

Prin
April 18th, 2007, 12:26 AM
Yeah, I went through the same thing with Solid Gold last summer... Jemma and Boo got really sick on their new and "improved" surprise formula. :frustrated: I don't know why they don't give any notice. It's not like they decide it overnight. :frustrated:

geisha
April 18th, 2007, 09:01 AM
Hi, I was wondering if you tried the Wellness Rice & Venison dry? It's an allergy formula... It doesn't look like it has as much meat as the Natural Balance? Comments?

rainbow
April 18th, 2007, 01:41 PM
Yeah, the protein level isn't very high but you could always supplement with something.

Simple Food Solutions Venison Formula

Product Ingredients | Ingredient Index | Vitamins/Minerals
Ground Brown Rice, Venison, Brown Rice Protein, Flaxseed, Sunflower Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), Natural Venison Flavor, Taurine, MINERALS: [Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate (a chelated source of zinc), Iron Proteinate (a chelated source of iron), Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Proteinate (a chelated source of copper), Copper Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate (a chelated source of manganese), Manganese Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite], VITAMINS: [Beta-Carotene, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin C, Vitamin A Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin K Supplement, Vitamin B-12 Supplement].

Guaranteed Analysis

Crude Protein
Not Less Than
21.0%

Crude Fat
Not Less Than
12.0%

Crude Fiber
Not More Than
3.0%

Moisture
Not More Than
11.0%

Omega 6 Fatty Acids*
Not Less Than
2.5%

Omega 3 Fatty Acids*
Not Less Than
0.5%


*not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO dog food Nutrient Profiles

Product Guarantee

Dog Dancer
April 18th, 2007, 02:01 PM
My girl Halo is allergic to chicken/poultry and she does react to poultry fat as well. My vet had said that would not be an issue, but it is for us. So it's not a set rule that fat is okay.

We just started using Timberwolf Organics Ocean Blue and the dogs seem to like it just fine (Halo's a lab so she's going to like it no matter what). But I know back in 2001 Natural Balance came from the same plant in NY as TO does now. I e-mailed Natural Balance to see if the recalled products came from Chenango Pet Foods but have not heard back yet. Hope not.

OntarioGreys
April 18th, 2007, 03:36 PM
Have you tried the Innova EVO red meat formula???

Right now with rice being affected in NB I would be very leery on any pet food
containing rice at the moment, as it was , as soon as I read on Yahoo news I ran out got 2 bags of EVO in the event all h#ll breaks loose, I have 4 dogs to feed, I figure any thing made at the diamond plant that contains rice could be highly suspect and who knows how many other dry food producers have been using to same rice protein, but figure saying it contained rice would cover the ingredient, when you really look at all the foods there are not very many dry foods that do not contain rice, if it is found in any other dry food, you would be hard pressed to find any grained free food for the next couple of months as it will fly off the shelf the moment it arrives in the store, and would the Makers be able to produce enough grain free food in the event most dry foods with rice get pulled

Tommysmom
April 18th, 2007, 08:07 PM
Tommy's in the clear!! Blood tests came back fine!!! :D

I'm a bit hesitant on the Wellness since it has rice protein... it's a bit scary these days.

Somebody else mentioned the EVO red meat today, and it looks soooooooo good actually. Is that safe for an 8 month old though? For some reason I thought people didn't recommend EVO for pups, but I could be thinking of something else, my head is swimming in doggy food right now, LOL.

Hubby picked up samples today of TWO - the elk, the bison, the venison and the fish. Gosh, I love my Ryan's store :lovestruck: , they're so good about that stuff! I think I'll see if he takes to any of that, just a few pieces here and there, and see what happens.

Ryan's is taking back our venison cookies too, even though we put them in Tommy's cookie jar and threw out the bag! They offered, just said to throw them in a bag and bring them back. How wonderful is that? A store that knows their stuff, stocks all the good stuff, has lots of big kitties and a cute doggy to pet when you walk in, gives out free stuff... what a great place!

Lukka'sma
April 18th, 2007, 08:25 PM
Tommy's in the clear!! Blood tests came back fine!!! :D

Wonderful. :thumbs up to Tommy:D

Prin
April 18th, 2007, 08:28 PM
Yey for Tommy! What a relief! :highfive:

EvoRM would be fine for him, IMO. The calcium is too high for giant breed puppies, but he should be almost fully grown, so it should be ok.:)

Tommysmom
April 18th, 2007, 08:44 PM
Hehehe... yep... almost fully grown, 11.5 inches tall :laughing: . I keep looking at your newf pics, he's such a shrimp compared to them!

I do like the sound of the EVO... might see if we can try that in a little while, I don't want to bounce his food around too much and he's liking one of the samples right now. I'm kind of hoping to have 2-3 foods I can rotate and mix that he likes and tolerates, since he really does eat well when he's got a couple mixed together. Solid Gold seems to be a winner with him, so if he takes to one of the TWO and maybe the EVO, we can mix those up a bit. I know some people say that's bad, but with all the eating troubles we've had I like to see him eat - if that means mixing, then I'll mix, LOL. Plus, he likes to play with different sized food pieces - tosses them around, barks, growls, hunts them down again and bats them around between his paws - so it's cheap entertainment too :laughing: .

rainbow
April 18th, 2007, 10:41 PM
WOO HOO for Tommy. :highfive:

Prin
April 19th, 2007, 12:03 PM
What about Barking at the Moon? It's similar to the Wee bit, but higher in protein and no grain...