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Nicky won't stop pottying inside...

Mahealani770
April 14th, 2007, 08:39 PM
Ok friends, I've been here 100 times with Nicky problems but this is getting serious.
I've done everything under the sun to help Nicky stop peeing and pooping in the apartment and nothing works. He is 5 years old and should know better by now. I hate that I didn't raise him, but for the year and a half that we've had him, he should've been stopped this behavior.
For those of you who don't know, Nicky was a stray, picked up on the side of the road. It seems to me that someone put him out, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was because he wouldn't stop messing in the house. Nicky is on a strict, regular schedule and there's just NO excuse for this behavior. We are to the point where he wears a belly band (doggy diaper) to try and curve this behavior, but that doesn't even help. He soaks his diaper as he pleases, and poops in the kitchen or in his crate. It has been every day this week and my partner is ready to leave over this. She says I do nothing about it. She thinks it's the nastiest thing on earth to come home to poop and pee in the kitchen, and I agree. But what can I do? What do you when NOTHING works? I have tried it and done it all and he just won't stop. My partner wants me to get rid of him. We have been in a fight over this every day this week because every day we've come home to the same routine. Cleaning up poop in the kitchen and throwing his urine soaked belly band in the washer.
I'm at my witt's end. I don't know what else to do. I'm tired of fighting over Nicky. I'm stressed everytime I come home because I know that if he has pottied in the house, I'm going to have the fight of my life on my hands with my partner. I just can't take it anymore. Somebody please suggest something other than a strict schedule, NILF, Alpha training, etc. I've done all that.
~M~

Prin
April 14th, 2007, 08:45 PM
Pee pads? :o

:grouphug:

clm
April 14th, 2007, 09:11 PM
Great idea Prin....at least he might just go on those and a whole lot easier to clean up....you may be able to move them outside eventually for him to get the idea that outdoors is where you want him to go.

Cindy

Mahealani770
April 14th, 2007, 09:31 PM
Pee pads would work on the kitchen floor, but what about at night time when he sleeps in our bedroom? Pee pads won't work on carpet. I used to think he would never pee in here, but I woke up this morning to find that I was wrong:frustrated: And how do I retrain him to pee on pads after I've been working so long and hard to teach him to go outside?
I have been fighting for Nicky for over a year, but I'm starting to loose the battle. I'm running out of excuses for him. Please help:sad: :pray:

P.S.
And even if Nicky did learn to go on peepads, that's no different than him going inside the house. The wife isn't havin' it. I'm being torn between her and my dog and I feel like I'm going to have a nervous breakdown over this.

clm
April 14th, 2007, 09:52 PM
I take it he's been checked by a vet to make sure there is nothing medically wrong that doesn't allow him time to alert you that he needs to go.

You could put him in a large crate in your room with a pee pad in it instead of giving him the run of your room at night.

Honestly, retraining him to pee pads wouldn't be such a bad thing since your outdoor training hasn't worked right?

When you say he's on a strict schedule, does that mean he's only allowed to go outside at certain times, or does he have access to go out when he needs to go.

Cindy

Peepmouse
April 14th, 2007, 09:57 PM
Pee pads would work on the kitchen floor, but what about at night time when he sleeps in our bedroom? Pee pads won't work on carpet. I used to think he would never pee in here, but I woke up this morning to find that I was wrong:frustrated: And how do I retrain him to pee on pads after I've been working so long and hard to teach him to go outside?
I have been fighting for Nicky for over a year, but I'm starting to loose the battle. I'm running out of excuses for him. Please help:sad: :pray:

Mahealani, check with your pet store and ask if they have Puppy Trainer or something like it. It's a super concentrated bottle of drops that have the enzyme or scent of dog urine. You place a few drops onto the pee pad, and you can even use it outside where you would like him to pee, and have him sniff at it. It makes him realize that this is the place he's supposed to be peeing. We used it for our last puppy, and it worked well. If you try it, I hope this works for you.:fingerscr

clm
April 14th, 2007, 10:06 PM
Sounds like the dog may be sensing some excess hostility too....especially if you and your partner are at odds over this.....stress and hostility towards each other and towards the dog will aggravate his behavior.

Cindy

Mahealani770
April 14th, 2007, 10:51 PM
Originally Posted by: clm
I take it he's been checked by a vet to make sure there is nothing medically wrong that doesn't allow him time to alert you that he needs to go.


Yes, he's been fully vetted and neutered. He's a pomeranian, if that makes any difference.

Originally Posted by: clm
You could put him in a large crate in your room with a pee pad in it instead of giving him the run of your room at night.

That's a great idea but we don't have the room to put a crate in here. I always thought Nicky would never pee in here. So far we've found pee all around the border of the bed (on the floor) at various times throughout this past year, but I thought he had stopped that, until I stepped in it this morning. Now I feel like we're going to have to restrict him to the kitchen at night time too; however it won't stop him from peeing in the kitchen.

When you say he's on a strict schedule, does that mean he's only allowed to go outside at certain times, or does he have access to go out when he needs to go.


When I say "strict schedule", I'm talking about feeding and pottying times. We get up at 6:00am every morning and take him to pee, he usually poops at this time as well. When he doesn't poop in the morning, I sometimes come home at lunch time to a mess. Nicky is given ample time to do his business in the morning, it's just that sometimes he chooses not to or he just won't go. Most of the time he won't go unless we walk him.
Nicky is not given any food in the morning, just water, because we are off to work and we know that he'll poop if he eats. He has the laundry room with his crate open, and a small kitchen to walk around in.
I come home for lunch, I take him out, he pees and I give him a handful of food to tide him over until we get home for dinner. It has been WEEKS since Nicky pooped or peed in the kitchen, until this past week. I have no idea what has gotten into him. He doesn't care about laying in his own mess so this has been a challenge ever since I brought him home.
Anyway, so we get home around 4:45pm, take Nicky out to pee, then give him some dinner. I take him out again around 8:00, hoping that he'll poop which he usually does, and then I take him out for the last time around
11:00pm to pee. I thought that he was good until morning, but apparently he's been peeing in the bedroom in the middle of the night for some reason.

Originally posted by: Peepmouse
Mahealani, check with your pet store and ask if they have Puppy Trainer or something like it. It's a super concentrated bottle of drops that have the enzyme or scent of dog urine. You place a few drops onto the pee pad, and you can even use it outside where you would like him to pee, and have him sniff at it. It makes him realize that this is the place he's supposed to be peeing. We used it for our last puppy, and it worked well. If you try it, I hope this works for you.

Thanks peepmouse, I'll give it a try. It's just that peeing and pooping inside, whether it's on newspapers or pee pads is still going to be unacceptable to my partner. We fought so bad tonight that I told her to get out. Every day that we come home to Nicky's mess is another day of fighting and stress. I'm being pressured to "get rid of him" and it hurts because I really don't know what else to do.

Originally Posted by: clm
Sounds like the dog may be sensing some excess hostility too....especially if you and your partner are at odds over this.....stress and hostility towards each other and towards the dog will aggravate his behavior.


I try and keep my partner away from Nicky when I can. She's so pissed off at him that she can't even stand to look at him anymore. My household is up in arms and I'm ready to just run away :sad:

Thanks for the advice ladies.
M

mafiaprincess
April 14th, 2007, 11:03 PM
Did you ever try feeding him in his crate to attempt to fix his denning instinct? Dogs generally won't soil where they eat.. but it would have to be like an every meal thing. Him and bowl into the crate let him eat and chill and then let him out.

Mahealani770
April 14th, 2007, 11:27 PM
Originally Posted by: mafiaprincess
Did you ever try feeding him in his crate to attempt to fix his denning instinct? Dogs generally won't soil where they eat.. but it would have to be like an every meal thing. Him and bowl into the crate let him eat and chill and then let him out.

Thanks mp, but been there, done that. I've tried feeding him in his crate, and when that didn't work, I went to scattering his food around on the kitchen floor where he poops and pees and that doesn't work either. He will mess in his crate and out..it doesn't matter. He'll lay in it and it doesn't even phase him to poop and pee in his diaper. :shrug:

clm
April 14th, 2007, 11:43 PM
Best of luck to you with your training. Sounds like he's a real challenge all right.

Cindy

badger
April 15th, 2007, 12:36 AM
Most of the time he won't go unless we walk him.

So why don't you walk him morning and evening, or walk him in the morning and play with him in the backyard when you get home from work? I know small dogs don't need the exercise that large dogs do, but surely he would benefit from more than he's getting, physically and psychologically. And why not a little breakfast? If I've read you right, he basically gets nothing beween five pm and lunch the following day, that's a long fast.

Doesn't sound too joyful, for anyone.

Prin
April 15th, 2007, 12:26 PM
I have no idea, Mahealani. :o But maybe Badger's onto something. Maybe it's not housetraining but a separation anxiety thing, in which case running him till he's dead tired would definitely help (it always helps anyway).

Puppyluv
April 15th, 2007, 12:41 PM
I agree with Badger. I think idealy, you should give him a good walk in the morning, and not go inside until he's pooped and peed. You may have to get up earlier, but it's worth it. Then take him home to eat, and take him out again just before you leave for work.
Then at lunch I would give him as much of a walk as you have time for, and not feed him then. After work, I'd give him another good walk, and feed, and then an evening walk/pee/poop.
I would also take away his bedroom privileges until this is solved.I know not everyone likes crating, but I think it can be a powerful tool, and could be useful for night time problems.

jiorji
April 15th, 2007, 12:58 PM
awww poor Nicky. I'm sorry M, I have no advice but I hope things improve with him:fingerscr :pawprint:

i've heard of some people with small dogs that they trained their dogs to poop in a cat litter box. Maybe you can look into that ? He can share with Minnie :D

aussiemedogs
April 15th, 2007, 06:44 PM
I have a suggestion, can you send Nicky to a home where there are other dogs? (during the day) Someone who preferably has a back yard so Nicky can relieve himself when needed? Sometimes its best to have another dog do the training for you. Hopefully after all the freedom and regular play time he will soon learn not to use your house as his own personal toilet.

Mahealani770
April 17th, 2007, 11:38 AM
Originally Posted by: Badger
So why don't you walk him morning and evening, or walk him in the morning and play with him in the backyard when you get home from work? I know small dogs don't need the exercise that large dogs do, but surely he would benefit from more than he's getting, physically and psychologically. And why not a little breakfast? If I've read you right, he basically gets nothing beween five pm and lunch the following day, that's a long fast.
Doesn't sound too joyful, for anyone.

We do walk him morning and evening, but sometimes he won't go #2. We'll put him in the kitchen, go off to dinner, and then come back to a mess. It doesn't make any sense. He had 30-40 mins to do his business outside but chose not to. Then he comes inside and poops and pees all over the kitchen? It doesn't make any sense. I do give him breakfast. I give him a handfull of food to tide him over until lunch time. Then I come home and give him another hanfull of food at lunch, to tide him over until dinner. Then he gets a whole bowl of his kibble and wet food mixed together somewhere between 5:00pm-7:00pm. When he's finished eating, which isn't much, I take up his food. He then goes out at around 8:30-9:00, he usually poops, then I take him out one last time around 11:00pm. Then it starts all over again at 6:00the next morning.
"It doesn't sound too joyful"? Dogs only need to eat 1-2 a day and that's what Nicky gets. I have to control what goes in and when it comes out and I learned that from Tenderfoot so that's exactly what I've been doing with Nicky. What's "not too joyful" is coming home for a whole week to nothing but poop and pee in my kitchen and/or a urine soaked diaper when Nicky knows better. He is 5-6 years old and is acting like a puppy!

Originally Posted by: Puppyluv
I would also take away his bedroom privileges until this is solved.I know not everyone likes crating, but I think it can be a powerful tool, and could be useful for night time problems.

Thanks for your comment, PL. Nicky now wears his diaper all night long and is being kept in the kitchen at night time as well. So far, so good. But it won't last. Nicky goes for weeks at a time without messing in the house and then all of a sudden, he starts it all over again. :frustrated:

Originally Posted by: Jiorji
awww poor Nicky. I'm sorry M, I have no advice but I hope things improve with him. I've heard of some people with small dogs that they trained their dogs to poop in a cat litter box. Maybe you can look into that ? He can share with Minnie

Awe, thanks Jiorji, I appreciate your support. I'd attempt to try and train Nicky in a litter box but I really want him to go outside. Who knows, I may have to break down and try it anyway, since nothing else seems to be working.


Originally Posted by: aussiemedogs
I have a suggestion, can you send Nicky to a home where there are other dogs? (during the day) Someone who preferably has a back yard so Nicky can relieve himself when needed? Sometimes its best to have another dog do the training for you. Hopefully after all the freedom and regular play time he will soon learn not to use your house as his own personal toilet.

Hello there and thanks for your suggestions. That sounds like a great idea but I don't know anyone like that. I don't know many people here in Atlanta at all as a matter of fact. I take Nicky to daycare sometimes but the dogs there all go on the floor because it's specialized flooring for that. I don't like it and wish they'd take the dogs outside to do their business, but that's how they work there. The floor is made of compressed dirt and grass and actually prompts the dogs to go ahead and "let it go"!


What started this whole thing is that we took Nicky out the other night. I was outside with him for a good 30 mins. He peed 20 times but would not poop. He started standing next to me as if he was bored and ready to go inside, so I just assumed he didn't have to go and took him in. I put his belly band on him and we were gone for not even 2 hours. We come home to a disgusting mess. Now I challenge anybody here to tell me that there was a good reason for that kind of behavior. We just had him out! Nicky has held it for longer periods of time, like all night long! There's just no excuse for him peeing and pooping whenever he feels like it. I bust my a$$ to keep it from happening but if he wants to do it, obviously he's going to do it. The night I'm talking about ended an entire week of this behavior, on top of constant fighting and arguing over Nicky. It was not a good night and it was not a good week. It doesn't matter, my partner and I are breaking up anyway so I won't have to fight with her anymore about Nicky, but I can't move into another place or buy a new house with Nicky doing his business as he pleases.
Thanks everyone, I appreciate you.
~M~

Puppyluv
April 17th, 2007, 12:07 PM
Hmmmm.. maybe try feeding him right away in the morning before going for a walk? Usually a full stomach pushes everything along, so that he has to poop even if he doesn't want to.
It's just an idea, and it may work, or it may go dreadfully wrong.
Good luck though:grouphug:

papillonmama
April 17th, 2007, 12:31 PM
I'm really sorry to hear your troubles, and the outcome of it.:sad:

I have a small dog and it was really hard to potty train her, she was an adult when we got her, so she had already lived a year never pooing or peeing outside, ever. So training her was exactly the same with her as Nicky, she would go outside for her walk, we'd be out there for a loooong time, sometimes hours, and as soon as she'd come in she'd go on the rug, or in the kitchen. I understand your :frustrated: .

I've heard of people having success using the pee pads inside then gradually moving it closer and closer to the door, finally taking it outside. Or of using the scent of his pee on something like a pee pad, or even newspaper and bringing it outside so that he realizes that that's the place that he's supposed to be going.

Praise was what really helped Dory, when she would go pee outside I would make a big deal over it and play her favorite fetch game when she was done all of her business. This takes a lot of time though, Like having a whole day to spend on it would be good, a day where you can watch him closely and make sure that he gets out when he needs to.

Could it be something that Nicky just can't help doing? Or is this something new? Either way, I think it's better to treat him like he's never been house-trained, take it back to square one, if you had success before with house-training a certain way, go back to where you started with that.

P.S. Getting angry about it doesn't help either, Dory would just do it secretly, because she was still confused, so I would grumble while cleaning it up and then avoid playing or letting the kids play with her for a little while. Eventually she put one and one together and now, she's pretty much got it.

Good luck

Mahealani770
April 17th, 2007, 02:02 PM
Thanks Papillon mama, thanks for taking the time to type that long response, I appreciate it. I go crazy over Nicky everytime he does anything outside. Nothing seems to work. Just when I think he's got it, I find a puddle or a pile somewhere. I guess all I can do is continue the positive reinforcement and clean up his messes.:frustrated:

jessi76
April 17th, 2007, 02:42 PM
oh Mahealani! I'm so sorry to read of these recent troubles w/ Nicky!

at this point, I'd get professional help. I'm not saying the advice here isn't great, but sometimes, a hands-on approach from a professional really helps, especially when dealing with an older dog w/ continued behavior problems. It's easy for us to give advice, and stories of what has worked for us, but it sounds as if you've tried most of the advice we've had to offer.

Also, it sounds as if you're relationship is suffering because of this issue, so the faster you get it resolved, the happier everyone in the home is going to be.

I'd focus on trainers that only use positive methods, and have worked with older dogs. Here are 3 links to trainers that hopefully are in (or near) your area. I'm NOT endorsing any of these, you will have to call, visit, and check references to be sure they are affordable, convenient, and most importantly, appropriate for Nicky.

http://www.atlantadogtrainer.com/
http://www.tailswag.com/
http://www.k-9coach.com/index.html

but they seem to be a better alternative to the basic classes offered by the chain pet supply stores, and hopefully you will get techniques right away to create change at home.

I think pee pads are a good idea, and may be a good compromise if all else fails. If Nicky is going to pee/poo in the house, train him to use a pad. this way it's easily cleaned up, and not an icky surprise everyday. BUT if you really want Nicky to go outside and not in the house at ALL, I wouldn't use the pads. Personally, I think giving the dog the option (pads or newspaper) confuses the situation. It's either OK to go in the house or it's not. I didn't use pads even when my dog was a pup, in my house, it was never an option, outside was the only place to potty. like I said, if all else fails though, this may be a good idea to try.

good luck!

Mahealani770
April 18th, 2007, 07:35 AM
Thanks Jessi, I really appreciate your input. You hit the nail on the head when you said "I didn't want pottying in the house to even be an option". That is exactly how I feel. I don't want to confuse him with pee pads, which I do have but have never used, esepcially with how hard I've been trying to enforce going outside.
Thanks so much for the links, I appreciate your concern and willingness to help.
~M~

chico2
April 18th, 2007, 07:54 AM
Mahealani,I am really sorry about Nicky..
My Rocky sprays and I know,when hubby gets upset over it and yells at him,Rocky only gets more edgy and nervy.
Animals are very sensitive to hostility,get confused and might even increase the problem.
Obviously with Nicky it's more to it than that,but your partner is not helping by beeing hostile,hopefully you can find a way to both help with Nicky.

Mahealani770
April 18th, 2007, 09:17 AM
Thanks Chico, I try to tell her that all the time, but you know about her mental condition so things aren't easily translated to her. She thinks Nicky is 'doing' this on purpose, just to be an a$$hole. Can you believe that? I have talked to her until I'm blue in the face, screaming, and slamming doors and she still doesn't get it.

Anyway, Jessi76, I contacted all 3 trainers via email and only one has responded so far. I gave her Nicky's history and told her what the problem is now. I asked her what her "plan of attack" would be and how much it would cost. This is what she said:

"The sessions are $75 each and I could get you started with 2 sessions. The plan would be to get your dog to fully imprint on a textured surface. Right now he has imprinted on both flat and textured. There are about 8-10 tools I would give you to do to try and get your dog to eliminate 30-35 times consecutively on a textured surface to start the re-imprinting on textured surfaces only. It is a process and depending on how many times the reinforcement has occurred would depend on the success rate."

What do you think? It's expensive for me, but I guess I need to bite the bullet to get this thing fixed. :shrug:

jessi76
April 18th, 2007, 09:32 AM
I'm assuming it's $75 for a private session? if it's private, I think it's reasonable. My trainer charges $60/hour plus travel expenses for private at home sessions. however, I wouldn't sign up just yet. I'd wait to hear back from the other two first, to compare techniques, cost, and # of sessions needed. You may also want to attend a session to evaluate the trainer "in action" or at least meet the trainer in person before signing up.