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Good breeders DO NOT make piles of money

i_have_too_many
April 9th, 2007, 03:13 PM
I just got back onto the board after being at a show all weekend and found an interesting thread that had been closed before I had a chance to expand on the OP's opening statement. Daisy, brought up a few good points.

When I first started looking into purebreds I read a comment somewhere that a good breeder will not be making lots of money from their dogs (contrary to what many believe) because they have put so much into them before they get a single pup. We just had a litter of puppies in January, and I would like to go over the expenses we incured, keep in mind this was a healthy litter with no suprise expenses, and numbers are rounded to the nearest $10.

Before our dog was bred; we spend $150 on getting her Tracking title, about $300 on showing, $200 on getting hips x-rayed, $50 for an eye test and thyroid check. $200 on training for the tracking title. This does not include the annual vet check, vaccinations, and food (x4years). Total so far $765, money made, $0.

Once we decide to breed, I spent hours seaching for the perfect stud, then the breeding took place. This alone costs $1500 for stud fee, not to mention the gas it took to drive 3 1/2 hours each way, twice.

Now the pups are here, luckly we had an uneventful delivery, no extra costs, but that does not always happen. The food intake for mom increased x3, so that cost is up x3 starting a month after breeding. Day 1; pups go for checkup and tail docking, 7 pups = $300. Continued increased feeding of mother (puppy food, $40 for 18Kg bag, lasts 2 weeks). New total: $2725, money made, $0.

Now the pups are a month old and eating puppy food, so I am feeding a bag of food every week, $40. At 7 weeks they go for another check up and needles, 7 pups = $350. Microchips for 7 pups, $115. I insert them myself, otherwise it would be another $35/pup for the vet to do it. Litter registration with the CKC, $20. Now the total is up to $3330, money made, $0.

By the time the pups are 8 weeks old, I have spend another $80 on food, they are eating 2 bags a week. I still have to register each pup, which is $50 each. I have not included any costs associated with actually selling them, such as phone bills and web page. We are lucky and are able to sell the pups by the time they are 8 weeks, but our last litter in the fall, I ended up holding onto 3 pups until they were 5 months old.

We are keeping 1 pup from this litter, so we are selling 6. You may think that now we will get lots of money, well it is temporary. Ok 6 pups x $1200 (they are not common so we are able to sell them for this much), = $7200. Now subtract the $3760 we spent, = $3440. This may sound like a lot, but since our litters pay for the other dogs we have, we are now in the red, litterally.

While we were waiting to sell this litter, we also had to feed 4 other dogs and assiciated vet costs. One of those bills was well over $300 for one dog. I was also showing 2 others, at $25 a show for each dog ($100/weekend), it quickly adds up. Now we have some money to pay these outstanding bills.

This is where the good breeders are separated by the backyard breeders. You see, byb's do not have all the same costs, in fact, they have very few, since they do not do health checks, usually do not have stud fees, do minimal vet checks, and rarely register the pups, they only pay for food and a few necessary vet bills. The money that they do make goes into their pockets, not their dogs.

Good breeders do it for the joy and pride in producing a good litter and finding the pups great homes, if they have to hold onto a pup for a few months to get it the right home they will. They will only breed when the time is right, not on every heat cycle like many byb's. They spend more $ on the dogs, then they make.

Just for your information, our bank account right now sits in the -, and will for a long time, but I am still showing our dogs, and doing health tests, in fact, I have to x-ray a dog soon for a hip check, that will be another $300 which we do not have. I do not know when we will have another litter, maybe when my hubby has worked hard and brings home enough $ to afford one.

I do not need anyone responding who is going to come on here and complain that we are making money, I can give you names of other breeders who will tell you the same thing. Good breeders do it because we love it, it is a hobby, a very expensive one. Imagine we had the same expenses but had another $1500+ bill for a c-section (a breeder I know just did). Or pups that were very ill and needed special care, or had pups die and could only have a few to sell. Breeders are lucky if they get to keep a portion of the money they get from the litter. If I was breeding a type of dog that was more common and was only able to sell the pups for $500, we would have only made $3000, that would not have even covered expenses.

Prin
April 9th, 2007, 03:16 PM
I agree that GOOD breeders don't make money. But breeders who breed mutts and don't pay for any sort of health checks, cerfs or any of that DO. That's what made the previous post flawed.

erykah1310
April 9th, 2007, 03:17 PM
Ok 6 pups x $1200 (they are not common so we are able to sell them for this much), = $7200.
I was with you until you said this...:sad: Basically just because they are "rare" or "uncommon" they can be sold for $1200. No other reason you would like to add:frustrated:

Scott_B
April 9th, 2007, 03:25 PM
$1200 doesnt seem like a lot to me. $1000-1500 seems like the norm from a quality breeder. I've seen some breeders charge $2000-2500 for pups! :eek:

erykah1310
April 9th, 2007, 03:31 PM
I know, but thats not my point. I started another thread, so not to thread jack this one.

kaykay
April 16th, 2007, 01:41 PM
"Imagine we had the same expenses but had another $1500+ bill for a c-section (a breeder I know just did)." Quote from I-have-too-many.

(Don't know how to do the quote thing yet.)

Why not get pet insurance on your dogs esspecially the females so that a big expense like that doesn't have to break your budget? I believe there are some policies that do cover c-sections and almost anything else that can happen. Just curious.

mafiaprincess
April 16th, 2007, 02:16 PM
Many policies exclude anything to do with breeding a dog, or complications of doing it actually. Insurance companies are there foremost to make money. Having a breeding complication isn't good business for them.

kaykay
April 16th, 2007, 02:27 PM
my vet recommended pet insurance. I'm not for or against, I'm going to start a new thread on that. I have insurance but have not made a claim yet:fingerscr that i don't have to, so i don't know how reliable they are.

LL1
April 16th, 2007, 02:38 PM
Why include the amounts for what many people incur regularly for their companions?All part of the joy of sharing your life with a companion,not written off as if it is a business transaction.

MaryAndDobes
April 24th, 2007, 11:47 AM
I wrote an article about this a while ago, why does a puppy cost what it does ...
http://members.execulink.com/~korevaar/Cost.htm

Speaking from my own experience, my dogs along with showing, trialing, health testing, normal health concerns, feeding, toys, etc generally cost me between $15,000-20,000 annually. I usually have between 7-11 dogs at any given time. I rarely have litters - my last one was September 2004 when I had all of 2 puppies, one of which I kept. How much do you think I "made"? LOL

That said, I did just breed one of my girls. She is a Canadian champion, CD, ROMC, CGN. IOW, titled in conformation, performance and temperament. She is fully health tested. I bred to a male in the US with similar qualities in conformation, performance and temperament along with appropriate health clearances. The specific breeding expenses alone (stud fee, hotel, gas, progesterone tests, etc) have cost right around $2000 and I just found out she didn't take.

These are the types of things that happen to responsible breeders constantly.

i_have_too_many
April 25th, 2007, 10:16 PM
MaryAndDobes I hope for your sake the breeder who ownes the stud has a live puppy guarantee.

Best of luck for the next time.

i_have_too_many
April 25th, 2007, 10:32 PM
Just read your article, excellent, I wish more potential owners could read something like this. I had people call when we had our Shorthair litter asking the price, when I quoted them $800 (which is the average price for a well bred registered litter) they were shocked and I never heard from them again. It really saddens me when people are willing to pay $1000 for a mixed pup, or a non-registered pup which most likely did not have nearly the care that mine did.

:highfive:

amsmom2njkz
April 26th, 2007, 04:13 AM
I read the article too and although I do not breed, I have to agree so much is spent on testing and health issues before the dogs are bred and then more expense is occured during pregnancy. Puppies arrive and those of us who truely take care of our puppies understand just how expensive it is to raise a pup, and God forbid the breeder has the puppy longer than expected more expense. All this before one pup is sold. You do however have your breeders who dont get the proper testing and health cert. they probably do make a lot of money, but dont put out quality puppies. I would rather spend a little more money and get a quality puppy that I can be assured is healthy and will stay with us for longer than getting a "deal" on a certain puppy and find out it has tons of health issues that not only will cost me a ton of money, but will be devistating to watch my puppy go through hell it's entire life. So kudos to those of you who are breeders who breed for quality and not quantity, and to those people who don't want to pay the high dollars for a good quality puppy, you don't want those types of people raising your puppies anyways.