Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

Perfume - more is not better...

Shamrock
April 5th, 2007, 03:16 PM
Excessive perfume ( or aftershave) can be offensive.. and for many who have allergies.. a real problem.:rolleyes:

I havent used public transit for many years,but when I did, I found that one of the "challenges" of riding buses is that there can be any number of unpleasant odours present from the assortment of passengers. Some riders were picked up daily from their fish plant jobs.. and that was pretty darn oppressive.:sick: though not their fault.

In this story, the woman was kicked off a bus by the driver for excessive perfume smell. I'ts hard to imagine how strong it would have to be to warrant this,:eek: but maybe it was. Have to kind of wonder about her co-workers if so.;)

Do you feel the the driver was warranted in his actions? He suffered from allergies, apparently, yet contact with the public is unavoidable in his job.
No passengers had apparently complained, the woman claims her rights were violated, and is demanding a public apology. :shrug:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070327/perfume_fuss_070327/20070327?


Perfume spat gets woman kicked off Calgary bus
Updated Tue. Mar. 27 2007 11:11 PM ET
CTV.ca News Staff
A Calgary transit passenger is demanding a public apology after being ordered off a bus -- twice -- because of the apparently overpowering scent of her perfume.
During her morning commute to work last Friday, Natalie Kuhn was ordered off the No. 137 Dalhousie bus by a driver who complained her perfume was too strong and was aggravating his allergies.
It happened again Monday. Kuhn said after about eight minutes into her commute, the driver pulled over and started opening all of the windows before telling her to get, just around the corner from her regular stop.
"I was humiliated and embarrassed in front of other passengers," the 25-year-old chiropractic assistant told CTV News. "I got off that bus in tears."
Kuhn said she heard no complaints from the other riders. Before she exited, she got in an argument with the driver about her perfume, "Very Irresistible" by Givenchy.
"(The bus driver) stood up, looked at the other passengers and said, 'just so everyone knows, we won't be going anywhere because of the excessive amount of perfume this woman's wearing. I can't operate this bus.'"
Kuhn called the city to complain while the driver paged his supervisor. A short time later, a transit employee arrived to escort her to her destination.
A 'civil rights' matter
Kuhn said her experience is about more than just public embarrassment.
"It's not about the perfume anymore, it's about the way I was treated," she said. "It's about rights. People's civil rights are being violated, and that's what happened to me."
The union representing Calgary's transit workers began a work-to-rule campaign on Friday -- the day of the first incident. Kuhn said she wasn't certain whether the drivers were making an issue about her perfume as an excuse to disrupt service.
Calgary Transit said an investigation is underway, although it's too early to say whether any action will be taken or whether an apology will be made. Calgary Transit spokesperson Tom McCallum said the city doesn't have a policy allowing bus drivers to deny travel to passengers wearing perfume.
Kuhn said she's been spraying on less perfume than usual after the embarrassing bus incidents, but she won't stop wearing it, and she'll keep riding bus 137 to work.

technodoll
April 5th, 2007, 03:19 PM
Hurrah for somebody finally speaking up about this! there is a saying that goes "perfume should enter a room with you, and exit when you do". Nothing worse than being asphyxiated by someone who took a cheap perfume shower before stinking it up in public. Blecchh! :yuck:

Puppyluv
April 5th, 2007, 03:26 PM
Everyday I have to deal with girls 13-18 (usually) who are slathered in perfume. :yuck: They wear so much that despite the potent smells of coffee grinding and brewing, and the other smells found in a cafe, such as cookies baking, and flavoured drinks, their smell almost knocks half of us out. I would love to say something, but frankly when you're working in customer service, you don't have much of a choice but to deal with it. We do however all joke and laugh about it afterwards though,and make hideous gagging faces.
Was the driver right in kicking her off? If he truly felt that the smell was impairing his job, then hell yes he did. I would not want to be on a bus where the driver cannot think straight or breathe properly, it's just too dangerous.
There aren'tmany jobs where you could get away with this (unless you own the place, then you can do whaterver the hell you want) so I'm glad that someone who actually has some basis in saying something did.:thumbs up

heidiho
April 5th, 2007, 03:36 PM
I am a perfume lover,but i agree 100% there is nothing worse then someone walking in a room w/ a ton of nasty smelling perfume,there is a guy that comes in here,and i wont even be in here,when i come back in i say to my boss "oh bob must have been here" cause his cologne lingers for like a half hour after he leaves..I have only gotten compliments on the stuff i wear,i only like perfume that smells like you just walked out of the shower,not strong but a nice clean smell.

Maya
April 5th, 2007, 03:41 PM
Yes it is quite offensive sometimes. Its especially bad if you have to concentrate where you are or you are stuck on a bus or in a waiting room.

erykah1310
April 5th, 2007, 03:56 PM
I Have some horrible scent allergies and honestly I think people really should be far more considerate when applying perfume.
Some dont bother me, but most do...
I have a hard time in convieninece stores, malls, and even the doctors office ( some people apparently dont bother to read the door signs)

dragon_queen
April 5th, 2007, 04:08 PM
I like perfume ,and I wear it too (one spray not near my neck or head), but I can't handle some of them and If the person puts it on to strong I get migraines. Not just perfumes on people, the janitor in my building likes to use scented sachets in the vacuum. I can feel the pain as soon as I get off the elevator.


As for the woman getting kicked off the bus... I don't know. I would not like to have been on the bus with her, I don't know if I would have kicked her off but something had to be done, some people just don't realize how strong their perfume really is. I actually got hives (and a migraine) once from sitting next to someone on the metro, she smelt like she had used the whole bottle.

Everything in moderation.

Body sparys are a bit better. you can reapply it a few times but it's not really strong enough to kill.

chico2
April 5th, 2007, 04:27 PM
I remember"Poison"when it first got popular,a lady where I worked wore it and a lot's of it,the stink made me ill and it lingered over everyone all day:yuck:
We finally had to ask her not to use it,in a kind way,saying we were allergic and she stopped using it.
It has to be the worst perfume ever made!!

heidiho
April 5th, 2007, 04:33 PM
Omg!! Poison i remember when that came out,was like the cool perfume to have,along w/ Obsession.

dustybird
April 5th, 2007, 04:41 PM
I think part of the problem is that when you always wear the same perfume, your nose becomes ammune to it....so you apply more because you can't smell it. Meanwhile everyone around you is dying. Many years ago my mom had that problem...she loved the prefume Poison(purple bottle as there is/was two different ones) she'd wear it everyday, so eventually she couldn't really smell it anymore. We could...well I just put it on thats why you smell it so much. Well one of her co-workers is very sensitive to smells but too nice to say anything. One day someone with overpowering perfume came into the office so she said something to my mom how smelly the person was and how it affected her...prompted my mom to ask about her perfume, which of course made her ill. So from that day forward a little dab will do and she even switched to a lighter perfume and checks with her when she changes scents, if it makes her ill she won't wear it anymore.

I think people should be told or hinted at, I know if my scent was making people ill I would want to know, whether it be perfume or b.o(of course some jobs are stinky so you can't help it).

Everyone has a right to public transportation but they have to follow rules and if someone is going to make other passangers uncomfortable etc... I think the operator of the transportation has a right to refuse service, especially if it is going to impair him/her from doing their job.

dustybird
April 5th, 2007, 04:43 PM
Weird that you all mention poison before I finished my post...yes one of the worst ever.

Hunter's_owner
April 5th, 2007, 06:51 PM
I Have some horrible scent allergies and honestly I think people really should be far more considerate when applying perfume.
Some dont bother me, but most do...
I have a hard time in convieninece stores, malls, and even the doctors office ( some people apparently dont bother to read the door signs)

Me too Erykah. I was at a concert a couple of years ago and we paid a lot of money for the tickets. This guy in front of me must have bathed in the strongest cologne. :frustrated: He almost made me have to go home, I managed to stick it out, but it didn't make it very enjoyable for me:o

Prin
April 5th, 2007, 07:00 PM
Yeah, some perfumes are easy to be allergic to, it seems....
There was a girl in one of my classes who slathered it on. I had to take a reactine before every class...

As for the bus driver, IMO, he should have just opened his window. :shrug:

trippincherri
April 5th, 2007, 08:11 PM
Ya I agree with Prin....he shouldn't have embarrassed her in front of a whole bus load of people. I would have been mortified if that girl was me. :eek:
Think of how self concious she is going to feel now and how this has damaged her self esteem....maybe she wore a lot of perfume due to BO issues? We will never know!
My mom has horrible allergies, and I grew up knowing how much to put on lol, because if I over did it then she would DEFINITLEY let me know.
Plus at our high school we were not allowed to wear anything very strong so it is now a habit to just use a spritz.

And I must say I know first hand how many stinkers there are out there!!
I sell Avon lol, and I can admit Avon has some BAD smelling perfumes that do not appeal to me, and it always seems like it is the offensive smelling ones they buy!!!

Shamrock
April 5th, 2007, 09:21 PM
We can all sympathize with being assaulted by fumes.. but surely there was a better way.:rolleyes:

This wasnt a taxi..it was a bus. Once seated.. how close in proximity could she have been to him? The drivers have windows right next to them.

And.. if he truly was ill, why couldnt he have parked the thing, quietly radioed his supervisor that he was unable to continue his route?
If the stench of her perfume was that bad, kicking her off the bus wouldnt have immediately solved the problem anyway.

I'm sure this affected him adversely,and was upsetting to experience.:sick:
But that fact is that "some" bus passengers wear perfume or cologne, not always with moderation.

Some may reek of alcohol, cigarette smoke.. and just plain B.O.
I wonder what a request to have such "offenders" kicked off would have yielded if a passenger was adversely affected?

Making such a confrontational scene seems more driven by bad-tempered anger to me, and putting her off his bus more of a spiteful revenge.:shrug:

Puppyluv
April 5th, 2007, 09:26 PM
I agreethat hinting is a good thing when someone wears too much.Last week one of my best friendsand coworkers came into work reeking of perfume, and the conversation went like this:
Her: HI!!!!:D
Me: Hi!:yuck: (grimace)
Her: What's up?
Me: You're wearing a tonne of perfume.:yuck:
Her: Oh....:o
Thank god she's my bestest, because it may not have gone over well otherwise.

Though, coe to think of it, we had an employee last year who had the worst BO ever, and apparantly it was because he was allergic to deoderant (though, he probably could have used an aluminium free one, or bathed more often) and it was deffinately worse than perfume.:yuck:

chico2
April 6th, 2007, 07:05 AM
Talking about busses and smells,my son used to take a bus to work and he would be nauseated(sp?)from the smell of garlic,day after booze,BO and everything else in a crowded bus,he would have welcomed the smell of perfume:laughing:
Perfume is a very personal thing,only the person who snuggles up to you is supposed to get a pleasant whiff:)

SARAH
April 6th, 2007, 07:18 AM
Ever notice how there is a lingering smell of perfume (as in "fumes" lol) in the supermarket isles long after some woman has turned the corner up into the next isle? When you're there looking for food, it's not a pleasant scent! Often, it's not really good quality perfume either and stinks more than anything.

Then again, I walked past a man the other day, not very close either, but he positively reeeeeked :yuck: of stale cigarette smoke smell!

And some people just make me want to discretely slip a deo stick (or spray) into their shopping carts.

As for that bus story ... no way of really judging without having been there, but I hope that if this woman takes the case as far as before a judge or whatever, she wears the same amount of the same perfume so that the case can be judged properly.

Byrd
April 6th, 2007, 10:18 AM
My job involves being in a very tiny room with a person for 10-20 minutes. I get all kinds of odours :yuck: . Most of my patients are elderly (so you can just imagine), and they really pour it on! :yuck: Some perfumes are so strong they make me gag. Worse is people who don't shower or brush their teeth. But, topping the list for me is smokers, I get an instant headache from cigarette smoke, the lingering BO ciggy smell is the worse (some have the yellow fingers, and even the front of their hair is yellow from smoke). I've had a couple of 'yesterday's alcohol' too. Surprised I haven't thrown up on the job yet. I really want to write a letter to the editor of our local newspaper about how it would be great if people would shower before going to a doctor's office and not wear perfume/cologne as there are a lot of people (including staff and doctor's) with sensitivities to such things. :sick:

Maya
April 6th, 2007, 01:00 PM
Well you know this girl worked in a Dr.'s office surprising she wore that much to work if indeed it was that much. I don't think she should have risked wearing it again though after already being kicked off the bus once. I'm guessing the driver was trying to put up with it the second time but let his frustration get the better of him. It would have been nicer to just ask her to come up to the front and tell her again quietly rather than announcing it to everyone.

Skryker
April 6th, 2007, 02:46 PM
He probably could have handled it better (odd that it would coincide with a work to rule campaign-got some extra press from it, though:rolleyes: ).

But, as a person with allergies and migraines, I can see that it really might have prevented him from safely operating the bus. If he gets the migraine type with a visual aura he might not be able to see properly for up to 45 mins or an hour, and then be light sensitive. I'd rather, as a passenger, not have a migraine suffering bus driver!

Perhaps a quiet, discrete conversation with the passenger asking her to refrain from putting the perfume on until she gets to work might have been better (while explaining the nature of the issue, that safety is involved).

Byrd, I hear you. I hate the ciggy smell. :yuck: And it lingers so long, too. Here's my worst combo smell-old cigarettes, mothballs on an unwashed coat and cheap rose scented perfume. Blech!!:yuck: :yuck: For an added yuck, old cat pee on top of the other smells. :sick:

Byrd
April 6th, 2007, 03:00 PM
Ah, mothballs!!!:sick:

You know, I associate the smell of mothballs with elderly people.... they all seem to use mothballs for everything!

Dracko
April 6th, 2007, 03:01 PM
I have zero empathy for this woman. To me it's no different than the laws we have for smoking now. You can't walk around stinking to high heaven of a scent that makes many other people ill. And, don't kid yourselves, one person's perfume can be smelled ALL OVER THE BUS if they wear it like many people I've experienced. And, why feel sorry for someone who most likely leaves others feeling ill as she passes them. Instead of feeling embarassed she should feel ashamed for causing others to feel ill.

I worked in a clinic years ago and there was this one patient who came in and before her appt we had to open the FRONT and BACK doors to the place to get ready for her stink. The perfume scent was so overwhelming. She used to complain about headaches all the time. DUH!!!!!

Fact is perfume is made from chemicals that we breath in. They are much more than just a scent. Our bodies are forced to deal with this over abundance of chemicals on a daily basis from things we can't avoid (car exhaust, etc). I always find it interesting when people who used to think there was nothing wrong with it suddenly develop a sensitivity to it. Their whole outlook changes then. Trust me, it is much, much, much different than putting up with a smell of BO or something like that to someone who has a sensitivity to perfume. Just a smell can knock you off your feet all day, cause a migraine, etc.

Now, perfume worn correctly...that is a different story. I think they need to teach kids in school how to put it on. As this thread title says: More is NOT better.

mummummum
April 6th, 2007, 03:05 PM
Since she is a regular on that route, for all we know the driver had made attempts at light-hearted hints, gentle suggestions and outright requests and again, for all we know the woman may have responded very badly prompting his seemingly rash actions.

Frankly, I think someone who works in a medical office should know better than to wear strong scents, particularly perfume.

Dracko
April 6th, 2007, 03:11 PM
Most medical offices I go in these days have signs posted that they are a scent free environment. I find it strange she worked in one. Any bets that her co-workers are completely THRILLED with what the bus driver did?

Byrd
April 6th, 2007, 03:14 PM
We have signs posted, but it doesn't seem to make a difference.

Shamrock
April 6th, 2007, 03:54 PM
Dracko, lol.:crazy: Yes, the office co-workers must be jumping for joy. The article states she has toned it down somewhat, and safe to assume this was desperately needed.:sick: .

Since she is a regular on that route, for all we know the driver had made attempts at light-hearted hints, gentle suggestions and outright requests and again, for all we know the woman may have responded very badly prompting his seemingly rash actions.

You are right, mum. We cant know exactly what lead to this scene.
One article doesnt give the overall picture.
Only "they" know exactly what transpired.. and even that would depend on who's telling the story.;)

It's clear that the driver reached his exasperation point that day, but possible that previous attempts to address this had been ignored,.. maybe with even with a deliberate defiance::( wear more.. :evil: )

Or, maybe he had just "suffered in silence" and then lost it.:mad:

Having a melt-down and creating a scene was "not" the right way for him to handle this though.
He should have parked his bus, stepped off for some fresh air, and just taken a few minutes to collect himself.


The thing about perfume that seperates it from other noxious smells that people carry around -. it's only one "intentionally" applied to the body.

Years ago they used to have perfume demonstrators in the large dept. stores cosmetics sections.
They'd go ahead and spray a "sample" on women passing by- without even asking if this was "wanted".
Hard to imagine they ever thought this was ok!:eek::sick:

Skryker
April 6th, 2007, 04:01 PM
Can you imagine?!?:eek:

I have a couple of fairly severe allergies and there are some fragrances that make me instantly break out in hives if I come into contact with them.


:D That'd make for great instore advertising, eh? "Look, she sprayed that lady with PerfumX and it gave her a rash right away! I'm not buying that stuff!" :laughing:

Or worse-"Not only did it give her a rash, she's wheezing and swelling up!" :eek:

Maya
April 6th, 2007, 04:33 PM
Once in the bathroom at a nightclub I met two girls who were in there getting spiffed up. I was a little tipsy and we got to some drunk chatting, Lancome came up and I liked the pwder at the time so they sprayed me with some of the perfume. O my god it was strong and then the whole night after that these two weird guys were following me around saying I smelled really good!!!:confused: This was when smoking was allowed in bars too so it must have been some pretty potent stuff.:yuck: Almost can still smell it like its caught in my nose.

I don't know if i'm allergic but I get really annoyed by scents. Someone in my building uses some sort of laundry detergent that is really strong and it makes my nose and throat get an itchy hurting sensation every time, difficult to describe quite unpleasant though. I contemplate putting a sign up in there but I don't know if it would do any good. GRRR that reminds me sometimes my clothes even end up smelling like this soap if they have been in there before me.:evil::shrug:

Even the BodyShop is pretty smelly in the mall, I can't imagine someone coming after me with some of the perfume yikes. Amazing that was "okay" at one time.

Bearsmom
April 7th, 2007, 11:29 AM
Personally, I think the wearing of perfume should be banned completely. I had a co worker that would marinate in the stuff, but when asked to not wear any, stated, "but I don't feel complete without it". Meanwhile another coworker was going into fullblown asthma attacks daily. How rude is that?

Mocha's mum
April 7th, 2007, 12:07 PM
Nobody will ever know, because we weren't on that bus....

The building where I work is "scent free" (all military bldgs are). Myself and a few coworkers put on a spritz of perfume in the morning, but we can hardly smell it on one another. However, I had a run-in with a civillian lady who came down to get some stuff - I could smell her before I saw her! And her perfume was horrible!

After I got her the things she requested (I work in the QM), I told her "you know, your perfume is quite strong...you might consider lightening up tomorrow" (I have absolutely no couthe, by the way). And she totally went off on me! "I have the right to wear whatever perfume I want and blah blah blah". I said to her "actually, this is a scent free building, so no, you don't have the right to wear whatever you want. You have to take into consideration the other people that work in this building. Some may have allergies or suffer adverse reactions to perfume".

After a stream of expletive deleted's, she called me a little bitch and walked away...:eek: So, I promptly went to my supervisor and tattled on her.

I'm sorry, I was trying to do her (and the others in the bldg) a favor and just approach her about her perfume. And she thinks she can start swearing and name calling??? I don't know what came of my tattling - we were stood down and sent home shortly after the incident. I guess I'll find out on Tuesday....:shrug:

Edgewaters
April 7th, 2007, 06:36 PM
I know it seems harsh ... but I can completely understand the bus driver's position.

Consider, for a moment, that his job is not like working in a cafe or supermarket or anything like that. It's a big investment in training to get that job, and it's not a temporary job for a few years like doing cash is; it's a job that he quite likely will work at until retirement, every day. Maybe 30 or 40 years. So I understand why he would stand up and not accept being given a headache and teary eyes every day by inconsiderate people.

The second factor to keep in mind is that it very well could be dangerous! It is very distracting and it makes some people's eyes well up! This is not good for a bus driver!!! It sounds a bit extreme, but if his eyes well up or he becomes dizzy and distracted, somebody - manybody perhaps - could get hurt or killed.

Dracko
April 7th, 2007, 09:57 PM
Personally, I think the wearing of perfume should be banned completely. I had a co worker that would marinate in the stuff, but when asked to not wear any, stated, "but I don't feel complete without it". Meanwhile another coworker was going into fullblown asthma attacks daily. How rude is that?


You got my vote on that one. :pray:

chico2
April 8th, 2007, 07:03 AM
I know what you are all saying,I was getting physically ill by the stink of Poison at that time and strong perfume in a reastaurant will make me loose my appetite.
However,whenever anyone brings up BANNING it makes my skin crawl,our politicians are more than happy to get on the BAN-wagon(especially in Ontario),banning dogs,banning leaf-blowers,banning SUV's,pickup trucks etc,etc...to get a few votes.,so they don't have to deal with the real problems,poverty,housing and others.
IMO a little diplomacy goes a long way,if someone makes you sick you try talking to them,often they are not aware,thinking people like their perfume..

Prin
April 9th, 2007, 01:33 AM
I don't think perfume should be banned... Where would it end? Would fragrances in body creams be allowed? What about in deodorant? Shampoo? It's a very slippery slope, even in an ideal world...

Maya
April 9th, 2007, 01:51 AM
IMO a little diplomacy goes a long way,if someone makes you sick you try talking to them,often they are not aware,thinking people like their perfume..Exactly, often people are not aware of how they are effecting others. We are already policed quite enough for our "own good" so that we don't have to use our common sense to deal with problems.

Dracko
April 9th, 2007, 11:56 AM
The problem is many people have NO common sense. I mean, in the first place who would think it is a good thing to spray yourself with LOADS of perfume????

Maya
April 9th, 2007, 01:06 PM
I know its hopeless, I think thats why i'm so depressed. :D

Bearsmom
April 9th, 2007, 04:37 PM
I just think that the spray-on perfume POURED over someone in a scent free city environment (where I work) screams arrogance. Especially when someone has been politely reminded (not by me, but by management, and the Health and Safety committee) to not wear it, has been told numerous times NOT to wear it, and has even been pulled off the rig to go wash it off, and persists in wearing it. Easter Saturday, the perfume was so strong our coworker was taken to hospital.

Ban perfume. I like the word ban.

Maya
April 10th, 2007, 12:42 AM
:eek: Here come the perfume police. They'll have no way of hiding will they.:)

That is horrible though when some people just don't care about how thier actions effect others.:(

Dracko
April 10th, 2007, 12:10 PM
I was co-owner of a business a few years back. One of the employees began to wear a lot of perfume. Since this was a health food store obviously that wasn't acceptable. We asked her politely not to. She would "forget" and do it. Turned out we discovered she was putting more and more on after breaks to cover up the smell of her cigarettes. :eek: So instead of a slight cig odor for a bit after a break the whole *****ing store smelled like this god awful perfume ALL day. Both me and the other owner had massive headaches. In the end we offered her some incentive and help to quit smoking. I sold my portion of the business a short time later and it wasn't my issue anymore. I'm not sure how it all turned out but the woman is retired now. If I had been the sole owner I'd have issued a written warning after my first one was ignored and fired her afterwards. I know this was a small business and more personal but I can only imagine what the customers thought coming in through the cloud of perfume...many of whom shopped in health food stores cuz of allergies and such.