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Cesar Milan, the Dog Whisperer

Kyra
April 4th, 2007, 02:38 AM
Hi! I wanted to help some people by letting them know if you sign up for Blockbuster Online DVD ordering, you can rent Cesar's episodes. There are many other dog training and behavior modification videos as well. Please heed the warnings in any videos you watch. You will see Cesar get bitten by dogs he is trying to train. For biting or attacking, I would seek professional help for you and your dog...dog or animal behaviorist in your area. Also, make sure you rule out easily found in testing...disorders that may change a dog's personality at the vet. Hypothyroidism can change a dog and a pill and some additional training might just be what the doctor ordered. If you are here at this website, then you truly love your dog and want to make the relationship work.

I wanted to post the following information to clear up "rumors" about Cesar Milan and his dog training:
From USA Today
'Dog Whisperer' Cesar Millan sued by TV producer
Posted 5/5/2006 10:33 AM ET

LOS ANGELES (AP) A television producer is suing dog trainer Cesar Millan, star of TV's The Dog Whisperer, claiming that his Labrador retriever was injured at Millan's training facility after being suffocated by a choke collar and forced to run on a treadmill.
In a lawsuit filed Thursday in Superior Court, 8 Simple Rules producer Flody Suarez says he took 5-year-old Gator to the Dog Psychology Center on Feb. 27 to deal with fears of other dogs and strangers.

Hours after dropping the dog off at the facility, Suarez claimed a worker called to inform him the animal had been rushed to a veterinarian. He later found the dog "bleeding from his mouth and nose, in an oxygen tent gasping for breath and with severe bruising to his back inner thighs," the lawsuit claims.

The facility's workers allegedly placed a choke collar on the dog, pulled him onto a treadmill and forced him to "overwork." Suarez says he spent at least $25,000 on medical bills and the dog must undergo more surgeries for damage to his esophagus.

A call to the Dog Psychology Center, also named as a defendant, was not immediately returned. A spokesman for National Geographic Channel, which airs Millan's show, declined comment.

"As of this time, the National Geographic Channel has not been served with either lawsuit, and we do not comment on pending litigation," said Russell Howard, the channel's vice president of communications.

The complaint claims breach of contract, fraud, animal cruelty and intentional infliction of emotional distress, among other allegations. It seeks more than $25,000 in damages.
------------------

I believe Cesar has done a world of good for countless dogs. In most cases, it is the human, not the dog that is the problem. And in Cesar's lawsuit, it was another human that was the problem, not Cesar.

Prin
April 4th, 2007, 02:41 AM
How does that clear anything up? The dog was in Milan's care, regardless of which one of his people put the choker on. :confused:

mafiaprincess
April 4th, 2007, 02:49 AM
Almost sounds like paid promotion..

If you google CM on here, you'll find most people don't find him the saint you seem to, and won't be running out to blockbuster.

Kyra
April 4th, 2007, 03:19 AM
How does that clear anything up? The dog was in Milan's care, regardless of which one of his people put the choker on.

I am saying he didn't put the dog there, just like the many people who bought bad dog food, are they guilty because the dog was in their care? Cesar or whomever did the hiring for the Center obviously misplaced trust in someone, just like the millions of owners who buy dog food from companies they trust(ed).

Sorry, if you think negativiely about Cesar's ways and we can agree to disagree on this. He is not exclusive to me and I have never used him, known him, etc... I wouldn't choose to use his more aggresive techniques, it's not my nature. I like his pack leader teachings and try really hard to understand what does my dog want or need from the dogs perspective. Cesar taught me that the Mom dog licks the face of a pup to soothe it and my dogs have found it sootheing (especially the one afraid of storms!) No, I don't lick my dogs!!! LOL I pet them the way a Mom dog would lick them and I talk to my dogs.

I do know that he has saved many dogs from being executed and has done more than I will probably ever be able to do in helping dogs myself. I think he is at 20 something dogs of his own? And that just might be currently, not lifetime. I might not "pick" him if I was a dog, as the pick of an owner, but I would choose him over others and death.

jesse's mommy
April 4th, 2007, 07:18 AM
Cesar Milan's ideas behind his techniques are right on, however he doesn't actually practice what he preaches and can cause a lot of confusion to the average owner. Too bad we can see the edits in his show, I'm sure there would be a completely different view from a member of the "Made famous by Oprah" gang. It's a shame that people are completely blind to him. I guess some people will never learn. :sad:

If you want to know a good trainer, the pets.ca expert trainer, Tenderfoot, is amazing. They are very detailed, will be honest with your expectations, and they give you different options and approaches with techniques.

Oh and I have to agree that this thread sounds like a paid advertisement more than anything.

Dracko
April 4th, 2007, 10:43 AM
If it's his training facility, it's his responsibility. I'm not anti or pro Cesar. Don't know about him except for a few glimps on Oprah and on this board, but it only stands to reason he would be accountable if his "staff" did this.

Prin
April 4th, 2007, 02:04 PM
I am saying he didn't put the dog there, just like the many people who bought bad dog food, are they guilty because the dog was in their care? The dog owners aren't liable for the dog food recall, Menufoods is. And even if it was ONE employee of menufoods who poisoned the food, Menufoods would still be responsible.

Cesar Milan isn't shy about saying he uses a treadmill for bad dogs. All that was different in this case was a choker, MAYBE, but even without a choker, left unattended on a treadmill, a dog can die.

Kyra
April 4th, 2007, 05:42 PM
If you want to know a good trainer, the pets.ca expert trainer, Tenderfoot, is amazing. They are very detailed, will be honest with your expectations, and they give you different options and approaches with techniques.

Tenderfoot has said "He says some good things but he does not teach in a manner that the average person should even begin to try. He is far too heavy handed for my taste. " (I agree with the heavy handed, but there are instances when he is not.) I think I might fall about where Tenderfoot is. Acknowlegding the good and the bad.

"Cesar talks about exercise, discipline and love. Thats great and all are very important. Exercise is vital to all living beings - but I want my dog to behave well even if he hasn't had his 4 mile jog that day."

I recently saved a poodle from execution, the dog had been mistreated and was fearful of people. I started with exercise and 3 days later the dog doesn't leave my side. We don't even do 1 mile right now. I have NEVER put even a collar on this dog. I use a towel the dog sleeps with and she will follow the towel everywhere. Hmm, come to think of it, I have NEVER done discipline with this dog. I am trying to teach sit, stay, etc.., but I don't know if the dog is ready for it and will patiently wait for the dog and I to connect.

The dog is so much more healthy now than she used to be.

Anyway, I think if a human wants to be a first time dog owner they need to come to this website and do their research. They need to ask questions about the breed they are considering and get the pros and cons. Just because you think a dog breed is a match for you, it may not be.
Dogs come in all shapes and forms. They can drool, damage furniture, bite, urinate in your house, etc... BUT, they can also be your best friend, loving, helpful, saving, caring, teaching, healing, etc. They can also be expensive to maintain. Vaccinations, spay/neuter, bedding, food, illlnesses and so on. Many people do not think about these things before their purchase. I feel you need to be committed to your pet for your life and the pets whichever ends first.

Quote: "Oh and I have to agree that this thread sounds like a paid advertisement more than anything."

My father taught me that facts are important. Hence, after reading a couple comments about Cesar on 1 closed thread, I felt that he was being defamed in the aspect that he put the dog on the treadmill with a choker and left it there for four hours. Will Cesar be held accountable? Yes, financially he will. I feel horrible for the dog and the owner. I hate the fact that it happened at all. I am not heartless. I LOVE animals. It is hard to express on the Internet in words your feelings. And I am all heart when it comes to animals and cruelty. Background: (In 1982 and 1983, while in 7th grade, I petitioned to keep the harp seals from being slaughtered in Canada and won with letters from the President and VP of the US, Prime Minister of Canada, and Prime Minister of Japan saying they would cease. I was 12 years-old and spent 3 months gathering signatures. Very few people refused to sign. I got approximately 30,000 signatures with help from my parents and no Internet at the time.) Now, I just save dogs and taxi my kids everywhere.

REread my 1st paragraph: There are many other videos as well. Here are the other videos available, which I have not seen yet, but have given the summary included at Blockbuster: Fun To Know: Dog Training (This entry in the "Fun to Know" series from Millenium Interactiv explains how to obedience-train a dog in a quick and effective manner. Through demonstration and verbal instruction, a certified and experienced trainer covers such essential topics as housetraining and stopping destructive behavior. ), Train Your Dog:(Featuring over 90 minutes of useful content, the instructional program Train Your Dog teaches a positive and gentle method of dog training. Top Los Angeles dog trainers Nicole Wilde and Laura Bourhenne give viewers step-by-step instructions to these simple techniques, including clicker training, which is used on movie animals, as well as offering easy solutions to common canine behavioral problems.); Dog Training: The John Fisher Way (Dog trainer and author John Fisher leads this instructional program on dog training through the use of a gentle and effective reward based system. Unlike punishment based systems of the past such as the choke-chain method, this system not only fosters good behavior in dogs but enforces a positive relationship between dog and owner); Woof! A Guide to Dog Training (teaches viewers how to train a dog with minimal owner frustration. The program offers alternatives to spanking with a rolled-up newspaper{Ugh!} to discourage toilet bowl lapping, and better options than shrieking when a dog just won't play nice. An easy-to-follow program, the video demonstrates how to train dogs in a loving, humane manner, and promises to achieve great results with fewer headaches.); and World of Dogs: Basic Dog Training: (In this release that aims to remedies common issues plaguing dog owners everywhere, pet experts offer a variety of basic dog training tips designed for use with canines of all shapes and sizes. After moving on to explore specific problems that can be brought about by a dog's bad habits, a variety of advanced training techniques designed to eliminate bad behavior are showcased in hopes of making problem pets easier to live with.) I am waiting to view all of these videos and will give my opinion about them after.
Please heed the warnings in any videos you watch. For biting or attacking, I would seek professional help for you and your dog...dog or animal behaviorist in your area. Also, make sure you rule out things easily found in testing...disorders that may change a dog's personality at the vet. Hypothyroidism can change a dog and a pill and some additional training might just be what the doctor ordered.

If you are here at this website, then you truly love your dog and want to make the relationship work. This was not intended to be an advertisement for anything, but maybe this website. Here you can get different opinions and ideas about your specific situation, by people familiar with the breed or situation. Then, you can choose what you are comfortable with and see how it works for you and your pet.

I certainly didn't mean to cause any controversy, just add further sources for people to look at. I apologize if I offended anyone, this was not my intent.

Benny Schnoodle
April 4th, 2007, 11:55 PM
I think that if you are watching C.M. you are truley interested in trying to find the best way to train your pets or dog in this case and what ever his methods are dosnt nesasarily mean you will adopt them excatly as shown .If you put them into your own interpetation of the exercise adapting it to fit the lifestyle and training methods of your own and if it works for you then it is worth what you have got out of it .

SableCollie
April 6th, 2007, 02:08 PM
Don't like CM, I have watched all his shows, and even gone to a seminar he did. However, he seems to listening to his critics somewhat. I saw an episode where he brought in a clicker trainer to work with a dog, and in the last episode I saw, he actually acknowledged that a dog was showing him an appeasement gesture. (I know appeasement isn't the best word here, I have also heard them referred to as "distance increasing behaviors" which means the dog is uncomfortable and trying to increase the distance between itself and the person/other animal by asking it to move away. Cesar called it "submissive" but at least he does recognize some dog body language.) I did see a recent episode though, where a dog had resource guarding issues with food and he was really just making them worse. The dog was a good dog except when the people stuck their hands in his food dish, he would growl. (Why people are obsessed with being able to stick their hands in dogs' mouths while they're eating is just beyond me..) Cesar had them put a choke collar on the dog and while the dog was eating, pull him away from the food dish with the choke chain, and force the dog to lie down near the dish and not get up. Now the dog had been uncomfortable before with people reaching for him while he was eating, and now he was given a reason to be even more upset. People approaching him while he's eating now = getting pulled away from the food by a choke collar. You could see the dog getting more and more anxious, and he started growling sooner, when the people approached the dish. At the end of the episode CM did the updates on everyone and mentioned that the dog was still having aggression issues with food, so he was going to go back to help them again. Brilliant.
I think if he learned a bit more about actual dog behavior, and not just outdated wolf pack theory, and was less harsh in his methods, he could be an awesome trainer, because he does have a way with animals that most people don't. And it is great that he encourages people to walk their dogs more, so many dogs are under exercised today.

Kyra
April 6th, 2007, 04:05 PM
If we are talking about the same one, that dog's behavior was excessive and agressive.
Look, I don't like people putting their fingers on my plate, or hovering around me while I am eating and I think those basics should be understandable in dogs. Dogs are dogs and humans are humans. I think dogs deserve respect to be able to eat their food in peace. BUT, if someone is walking by my house outside while I am eating, I don't snarl, yell, get upset like I need to protect my food or attack them. That dog needed to learn that his/her food was safe and that he is not the alpha dog. Because they love the dog, the humans explain these faults away until the dog finally bites a human who infringed on its alpha position. These dogs are often surrendered to animal shelters and are killed because their owners did not understand how aggressive behavior comes about. I don't agree with how Cesar did what he did and I think he was going for the quick fix. I do agree that the family did have an alpha problem. They were not the alpha. I think there are healthier ways of becoming the alpha in your household. By the way, even the tiniest Chihuahua/Yorkie/whatever can be a canine Hitler.

I do agree that you need to be able to get your dog to release items they have in their mouth on demand. My dog had a chicken bone in her mouth she had found remaining from where someone's garbage had been. Did she know that it was dangerous for her to have? She gave me the bone, but still wanted it. I traded her a healthy treat instead for the bone. Other than that, I let my dogs eat in peace. I or anyone am/is able to walk by them and continue what I am doing with no problems. They don't growl or try to bite my foot or anything. We do not play mean by taking the dogs food away randomly. Only taking things that are considered unhealthy or otherwise dangerous.

SableCollie
April 6th, 2007, 09:13 PM
I have worked with many resource guarding dogs over an 8 year period. We have an RG dog in-shelter now that I have been rehabbing. RG has nothing to do with the dog thinking they are "alpha." It is a natural survival behavior that unfortunately does not mesh with the human world. Yes, the dog is thinking "this is my food, stay away", but they are not thinking "I am alpha, how darest thou approach my food!" Some wolf experts are now pushing for the abandonment of the "alpha" term because it has been so misinterpreted over the years. The original wolf hierarchy studies were done with a group of adult, captive, unrelated wolves kept in a pen. Because it was such a stressful, unnatural environment, hierarchy displays were much more common and intense than they are in real life. Much of what was learned then has since been disproved, however dog owners/trainers got ahold of these old studies and just ran with them. What CM did was basically the opposite of the recommended protocol. I have never seen any trainer do what he did. You want to recondition the dog to like, or at least tolerate, people approaching and touching the dish. The standard protocol used by trainers I have worked with is to begin by hand feeding the dog some of its meals. Human hands=the giving of food, not the taking away of food. Then you begin by putting a small amount of food in a dish, and you approach as close as you can get without the dog aggressing, and toss a really high value food item as close to the dish as you can get. You work your way closer and closer until you are standing next to the dish dropping food in. Desensitization to people being near dish. Counterconditioning- people putting hands in dish=good stuff. What Cesar did in that case was make "people reaching for dish" even more of a negative experience for the dog. He also corrects for growling and warning signals. That is very dangerous. You never ever correct a dog for growling/snarling/warning. The dog that goes "tense up-growl-bite" and gets corrected for the growl goes straight to "tense up-bite". And then people are shocked at how "unpredictable" the dog is. "He was perfectly fine and then, out of nowhere, he just bit!" You are not fixing the underlying emotion, you are just suppressing the outward signs. The only way to change the underlying emotion is through desensitization and counterconditioning.
I just hate to see dogs untrained, or trained incorrectly, because I see the results of that every day in the shelter. We hardly ever get abused dogs. What we get are poorly trained ones, and I have seen a lot of aggression lately, and we do not have the resources to work with every aggression case. It's very unfortunate.

Prin
April 6th, 2007, 09:21 PM
SableCollie, I fully agree with your first post. Milan's methods might work for dogs who have become insanely aggressive and need to be subdued, but IMO, they are not long term answers to psychological issues. Resource guarding happens when a dog is afraid of losing something and therefore does whatever it can to prevent its loss. You don't make a dog ok with it by making it afraid.

I saw a similar type of show when a dog was afraid of the disabled people who were around (woman brought him to work) so he hid under the desk and Milan's solution was put a choker on him and DRAG him out from the desk. :sad:

SableCollie
April 6th, 2007, 09:34 PM
Oh Prin, I saw that one too, it made me so sad. You could see how terrified the dog still was, even at the end of the episode. :sad: If CM wants to work with extremely aggressive dogs that have no other options, more power to him, although I wish he was more positive (and I really wish a postive trainer would get a tv show to show that dogs can be trained by much gentler methods). But he really does wrong by fearful dogs. I have a real soft spot for fearful dogs, as I suffer from anxiety and can empathize.

Prin
April 6th, 2007, 09:55 PM
I agree and feel the same way! :grouphug: He just can't do fearful dogs or dogs with psychological issues that are based in fear and anxiety. It's like yelling at a kid to stop crying. :confused:

Dracko
April 6th, 2007, 10:31 PM
Great post SableCollie. Like Prin, I agree with you.

TMac
April 9th, 2007, 11:47 AM
I really wish a postive trainer would get a tv show to show that dogs can be trained by much gentler methods

Stanley Coren has a tv show, but he is not Mr. Flashy Machismo, so doesn't get the same kind of attendtion as Milan. :frustrated:

Prin
April 9th, 2007, 04:25 PM
Stanley Coren is great! :highfive:

~michelle~
April 9th, 2007, 05:26 PM
ive never seen this Ceaser Milan trainer, but i dont hink i have any wish to!!!! i cant believe he did that with the people with the disability and the dog..!!!!!! i work with people with disabilities, and i have a fearful dog who was very afraid of the gentlemen i supported at first and if i did that it would have made him 10X worse!!! they are not perfect and i would never trust them unattended with one another but we have made exceptional improvements and it was all about positive association!

tenderfoot
April 11th, 2007, 07:36 PM
Well...heads up everyone there are new shows to pick from on Animal Planet. The first is 'Divine Canine' with the Monks of New Skete and the other is 'It's either me or the dog'. I think they start on April 16th.

I will have to see a few episodes before I feel comfortable commenting on them but I have already watched some of the Monks clips and am sad to report they are using choke chains, and with harsh corrections. I was honestly shocked to see they are still using these methods.

So with the popularity of Cesar there should be lots of new shows coming out with all kinds of alternatives to training. This is a good thing - it will give everyone a good chance to choose what feels right to them. Just remember everyone has something to teach us - even if its that we don't want to use a certain method.

Can't wait to see 'Love Them & Lead Them' in the TV guide listings, but we might have to wait our turn. :pray:

erica_rogan
April 11th, 2007, 09:27 PM
I can't wait to see some of the other shows that are coming..Now I don't want to speak out of turn b/c I am a new bulldog mommy and do not have as much experience as you all!! BUT...I do watch CM and my father-in-law read his book...Now I don't incorporate anything in particular since I didn't want to mess Floyd up..But I do pay attention more to his body language and I do try to leash walk him with him by my side etc....My father-in-law has a beautiful...but horribly dominant and territorial Boxer named Ramses....My father-in-law got into the show and read the book and is now working with Ramses...and we have seen imorovements already just by correcting all of the ALPHA behaviors that no one really noticed...

So I guess the benefit of the show (if you can agree that there is one)(with the exception of choke collars etc...) is that it really introduces the concepts of dog beahviors, body lanugage, and alpha/dominance behaviors that a new mommy or layperson may not recognize. This show really showed me how people that sincerely love their dogs potentially hurt them by sending them the wrong messages and allowing the dogs too much freedom...since we...and I...do treat them as our children rather than pets.....

I guess this show has prompted me to further research and look into behaviorists and the right way to raise a healty well adjusted dog...even if he has bully behaviors...ha haha:laughing: and has shown me that by loving your dog he still needs boundries to live by...As for Ramses..he has a road ahead of him since he is 7 but my in-laws love him and are so dedicated to helping him that by not allowing him on the couch or bed anymore...frequent walks everyday with the leash behaviors etc..has helped Ramses...

So this is not a paid advertisement in any way!! and I am anxious to see other shows since this is all new to me and so interesting!!! :pawprint: :dog: :pawprint:

Tommysmom
April 11th, 2007, 10:00 PM
I've never actually watched a full CM show, I did watch a bit once and he was just so kind of violent with the dog I just knew I wouldn't be able to do it that way (although to be fair I didn't watch enough to know WHY he was doing what he was doing). I do watch Stanley Coren though... I love how he tackles some very basic every day type issues that we all face, with very realistic, easy to do answers.

What really strikes me every show is the look on Stanley Coren's face when he's with the doggies. He really seems to light up, you can tell he just loves dogs. I didn't see that with CM. Our trainer is like that too, you can just tell how much he enjoys dogs, and the dogs really respond to that. We had a different trainer for a while when the first was unavailable, and she wasn't like that and really, the dogs could tell too.

It's horribly unscientific, I know... but I'm just drawn more towards people who have that softy look when they are around pets, the ones who can be strict without losing that love in their eyes.

SableCollie
April 12th, 2007, 02:24 PM
Is Stanley Coren's show shown in the US? I have never seen it, but I would like to.

The Monks of New Skeet have the popular book "How to be Your Dog's Best Friend" that has been around many years (first published in 1978 I believe). The book at one time included this gem of a quote: "How hard do you hit the dog? A good general rule of thumb is that if you did not get a response, a yelp or other sign, after the first hit, it wasn't hard enough." This is how you "be your dog's best friend"??
Now I am going to assume that the book has been updated since that quote appeared and they no longer advocate beating your dog. But I did see commercials for their new show, and they were giving pretty massive leash corrections, so I'm not sure I would be able to watch it.

Why does it seem we are moving *backwards* in regards to training methods? What's next, a Bill "string 'em up" Koehler training show? :confused:

Prin
April 12th, 2007, 02:36 PM
http://foolstown.com/sm/obm.gif There's always a backlash to everything... People hit their dogs, so others go too soft and end up with brats, so another group reintroduces hitting. :rolleyes: There's always some less extreme methods, but those don't get the attention. :rolleyes:

SableCollie
April 12th, 2007, 02:46 PM
I think you're right, Prin, the same thing seems to happen with children. For a long time, parents used mostly punishment based methods, spanking and yelling... Then during the 90's it seemed to go to the other extreme, where parents would not even say "no" to their kids and the kids were just out of control. It seems to be more balanced now, I have seen the "supernanny" show, and she does time outs for bad behavior, rewards for good behaviors, and teaches the parents how to communicate with their kids. Now why isn't she a dog trainer?

Prin
April 12th, 2007, 02:48 PM
lol more money in kids.:D

TMac
April 12th, 2007, 05:37 PM
Is Stanley Coren's show shown in the US? I have never seen it, but I would like to.
:

Stanley's show (the only one I've seen anyway) is called "Good Dog!" and it plays on the Pet Network quite frequently. Do you get the Pet Network where you are? I think it is also sometimes on the Life Network.

I believe he's American but his show is based in B.C. (you can tell by all the beautiful scenery!)

:p

SableCollie
April 12th, 2007, 06:33 PM
I don't get Pet Network, here (I'm right near Boston). The animal channel I have is Animal Planet. I don't know about Life, I'll have to check. If not, I'll just have to move to Canada. :o