Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

Raw and kibble

angeldogs
April 2nd, 2007, 01:06 PM
I'm thinking of going back to raw and kibble.i'm at a loss with jag and his soft or runny poops.the only time we got solid ones is when he got his RMB in the am and his kibble the other 2 meals.i tried raising his bone and nothing just bone in the poop.:yell: :frustrated:

Scott_B
April 2nd, 2007, 02:10 PM
ok, fast him a day, then start like you did when first starting out. Feed one type of meat for a week. Whole chickens cut in quarters, remove the skin and any excess fat.

technodoll
April 2nd, 2007, 02:13 PM
if it's just bones in the poop, he's not digesting them. fasting won't make any difference IMO...

add digestive enzymes and grind up whole chickens (with bones) and not too much skin, feed that for a week and see if that helps. at this point you have nothing else to lose, imo... :grouphug:

barkley21
April 2nd, 2007, 03:22 PM
Any chance you are over feeding and/or feeding too much skin and fat? When we started on raw we did both and the results were loose and runny poops. Just a thought :shrug:

angeldogs
April 3rd, 2007, 04:30 AM
TD i tried a broad spectrum digestive enzyme before and got a pinkinsh red color in the stool when he was on kibble alone and stopped giving them.
barkley21.i'm feeding jag between 3 and 4 lbs.he is a very high energy active boy.and he's maintaining his weight.i just gave him a big turkey back and cut off as much fat as i could and skin..he's been like this since we got him in may last year it's:frustrated: Scott i will try that also.thanks everyone.almost a year now.stool has been tested and was negitive for worms or gairdia.

angeldogs
April 3rd, 2007, 05:22 AM
Here's some pics from 2 mornings ago.hes happy and doing well other wise.

angeldogs
April 3rd, 2007, 05:25 AM
Last ones.i think he's doing good.what do you think.

Scott_B
April 3rd, 2007, 05:52 AM
I think he looks very good. Lean and fit! :thumbs up

technodoll
April 3rd, 2007, 07:07 AM
wow that is a LOT of food for a weim :eek: remember that TOO MUCH food is a cause of loose stool. My 130 lbs boy gets max 3lbs per day, and he has a lot of muscle to burn all those calories...

i suggest you try something for a week. cut his food in half but feed more calorie-rich meats to compensate. Try regular ground beef and supplement with eggs & ground eggshells for calcium, some plain high-fat yogurt to blend the mix. Or regular ground pork, all boneless.

you will see if the raw bones are the issue, the raw meat, the type of meat or the quantity of food he is getting. remember what counts at the end of the day is total # of calories ingested, not the weight of food - bones weigh a ton and don't provide many calories.

My :2cents: !! :goodvibes:

ps: jag is drop-dead gorgeous btw! :highfive:

x.l.r.8
April 3rd, 2007, 09:02 AM
Thatís probably something like 4%. Riley gets about 1.5 lbs a day and if he plays around and takes to long he regularly gets his breakfast taken away.
Riley is not exactly a couch potato and is always on the move, either running or trying to get missy to play, and we go for a good hour brisk walk twice a day and then to the dog park for afternoons.
Oh and I know I have said this before, but Jag is gorgeous :lovestruck: I think I am developing a soft spot for certain dogs and Jag is definatly one of them. You can get box's of turkey backs ground if you want to avoid whole bones, and whole egg would be a great way to go for lack of bone.
Try feeding less and giving the bony stuff as a treat rather then part of the meal, maybe as much as half and see what happens with the stools and see how he is looking. Then play with the volume from there. Good luck.

billyp
April 3rd, 2007, 09:37 AM
I barely give 1.2 pounds of food to my boxer who's about 55 lbs and she is a VERY active dog. I feed her twice a day and she is doing awesome. IMO you are over feeding your dog
Good Luck!!!

sassycyclist
April 3rd, 2007, 10:14 AM
your dog looks great! are the ears as soft as they look? :D

barkley21
April 3rd, 2007, 10:43 AM
Angeldogs, the reason I asked if you were overfeeding Jag was because I had a feeling that might be the culprit because like I said, I was guilty of doing it as well when I started out on raw and the results were loose stools. It's so easy to get all gunh-ho about it isn't it :crazy:
When you mentioned that you feed between 3-4 lbs per day, I thought "Yup, I was right" but then when you posted pictures of Jag I thought that he looks beautiful, healthy, strong, and nice and LEAN, so maybe you're not overfeeding. I don't know. He's definitely not chubby even though he's been eating 3-4lbs of food per day.

Lissa
April 3rd, 2007, 10:45 AM
I'm not sure we can assume she's overfeeding Jag - especially since he already looks pretty lean. Dodger is one of those dogs that survives on very little but plenty of working/performance dogs need at least 4%.:2cents:

I am not sure about worms but definately for giardia - you need to do at least 3 fecal exams, over a week because depending on the cycle, you can get a false negative result!

Does he get any grains? Dodger's only source of grains is training treats but plenty of dogs need something to bind it all together... Have you tried feeding tripe? A friend of mine swears that finding tripe to her dog "cures" everything:laughing:

technodoll
April 3rd, 2007, 11:27 AM
as i mentioned, it's the total # of calories per day that counts - not food volume. if jag needs alot of calories but his body cannot deal with that much food (his intestines expel as they are full, without first absorbing all the water), then the food sources need to be switched to more calorie-dense meats... the trouble is, some dogs don't digest fat very well either - so it's really all about "trial and error" at this point.

hence my suggestion of regular ground beef and eggs for a few days.

100 grams of regular ground beef has 280 calories, so 1 lbs would be about 1270 calories (or 3 cups of kibble). :cool:

Scott_B
April 3rd, 2007, 12:35 PM
Very good point on over feeding. Even cuttng back a bit may help. Maybe try 3.5lbs. If you find him getting too this, go back to 4.

Rosco gets 1.5-2.5lbs a day. Some days more, some days less, but it all works out.

angeldogs
April 4th, 2007, 04:17 AM
Wow thanks for the replies.if i feed him less he's always looking for food.we can spend over 2 hrs at the dog park with him on a non stop run other then to greet and our 10 min drive home and he will go straight for the back yard to have his toy thrown till your harm is ready to fall off.so i was trying to feed him to his activity level.he's always out side running and playing with ben all week.i will try to cut back on his food.i've started taking the skin and fat off his chicken and turkey also.i do give raw egg and ground beef.he goes nuts for it.so i will try 2 to 2.5 lbs per day for awhile.and yes sassycyclist is ears are soft i have a hard time not touching.but whats a dad to do:D thanks for all the advice.:thumbs up
forgot he also gets no grains

angeldogs
April 4th, 2007, 05:09 AM
TD.so feed him how much ground beef i have lots of that.and how much plain yogart do i give.i or can i give cottage cheese.when i give bone and theres not awhole lot of meat i add ground beef.is that not a good thing to do.i also have turkey with no bone.

technodoll
April 4th, 2007, 06:28 AM
angeldogs, if 1 lbs of regular ground beef is 1270 calories, you can start with about 2.5 lbs per day and mix in as much full-fat cottage cheese, yogurt or eggs as you want as long as you know jag is not allergic to that (not all dogs digest lactose very well). Or, just do ground beef for a few days, nothing else. Remember this is just a test to see if he can digest raw, boneless meat well - do not feed any bones for a week (he will not suffer nutritionally). You can always mix in some finely ground and dried eggshells for calcium, 1 tsp per pound of meat.

skinless poultry is very low-fat, and you will see him lose weight on this, and the test is really to eliminate all bones for a while. if he still has soft poop, then it's not the bones... have you tried feeding him ground chicken bones? just the meatless frames through the grinder, mixed with ground beef?

angeldogs
April 5th, 2007, 03:51 AM
i haven't with the grinder yet.it old fashion not very big and i have to crank the handle.it was my late grandmothers.i'm going to stop the cottage cheese.i've been feeding that to him since starting raw.maybe thats it.but i will eliminate 1 thing at a time.i hope it's just over feeding.he's getting the benefits of the raw.:thumbs up .thank you for all your help technodoll.

angeldogs
April 5th, 2007, 11:37 PM
How will i know if he's allergic to cottage cheese ar yorgart?