March 28th, 2007, 09:14 PM
Hi. I really need the help and guidance of all the raw feeders out there. Since we brought Mordekai (Great Dane) home he has always had loose stools. He wasnt able to hold his bowel movements for very long...and at best he had large slushy type cow pie stooles. After a year and half of struggling with this and having put him through meds about 12 times we finally decided to do a test and switched him to home cooked food (cooked beef and rice and veggies) and his poops finally became solid. This indicated that it's probably his digestive system and not something like Giardia.
So the plan is to switch him to a BARF diet. He will not touch Urban Wolf, Mountain Dog or Pet4Life pre-made BARF food. He will also not eat raw chicken or turkey. He will eat raw beef though. So we started him on Raw ground beef and are slowly going to introduce chicken and turkey.
So now to the questions...he must be going through the detox period because his diarrhea is back but it's not just diarrhea, it's EXPLOSIVE :yuck: . He has a good appetite (finally) and wants to eat and finish his bowl but he has had BAD diarrhea for 5 days.
We have held off on any supplements in order to control the changes. We have been adding rice to his raw beef and we have also added canned pumpkin (not pie filler) to help control the diarrhea.
We are almost at the point of giving up and going back to kibble but I want to give it a couple more days. Does anybody have any advice, guidance, suggestions? PLEASE ????? :pawprint:
March 28th, 2007, 09:37 PM
IMO beef is a rich meat, not really recommended for beginners... are you feeding lean beef? no bones, right? feeding only meat gives looser stools to begin with, bones firm it up. it could be a number of things but some dogs just don't like raw meat very much, it's not often but it does happen. you could try taking the skin off some chicken and quickly searing it in a hot pan, and see if he likes that. first fast him for a day to give his system a break, and encourage his appetite. then give some digestive enzymes and probiotics to help both his tummy and his irritated gut. i don't know why you would go back to kibble, since he was doing poorly on it before? just curious... i know home-cooking is a lot of work :grouphug:
March 28th, 2007, 10:12 PM
Everything TD said
I was dealing with the same problems in the beginning and was also reconsidering kibble but stick to RAW for a few more days and your dog should adapt. I had to adjust the bone to meat ratio and everything was great afterwards.
You can also consider giving your dog the pre-made patties I did that for about 2-3 days before switching and they did good on them.
March 28th, 2007, 10:17 PM
I think other than reading advice from places like the raw feeding group, you should be the one to make the decissive call on what to feed. I think that without a better idea of exactly what you are feeding (surely not just ground beef) it's hard to get a handle on whats going on. You may want to think about going back to home cooking and making the transition a little slower.
If you think things are taking too long, your usually rushing things. I would also recommend something like adding a meaty bone to suppliment the normal diet and then use the trasition to get mordekai (I want to know where that name came from :D ) onto whole meals of RAW, then once you have one protein under your belt slowly (and I mean very slowly) introduce another.
I have no idea how much previous reading you have done on the subject but many feel the premade RAW is not the way to go. I would sudgest something like pork riblets (as they are cheap) to add as a treat if he does not like chicken or turkey. Most start with chicken backs/necks untill they are happy there pet is able to cope with the bone, then upp the bone a little to counter act the reaction to organs (like liver/kidneys) and then once they have that under control you can start using the 80%5%15% ratio (or what works for you) at the moment we have no idea as one week it will be a lot of lamb ribs and another will be pork shoulder. It all evens it's self out but where you are at the moment is somewhere in the middle. raw beef is great but you would be better to have it as a slab. But you need to see what works for you. I would think about going back to what works and slowly add something with soft bone and chewability. Does he Wold down his food or is he a chewer, how much are you feeding him, Most of us are around the 2-2.5% of body weight, overfeeding can also be a cause of runny stools, more so without the fillers and carbs.
I hope this has helped, but if you give us more info we will try and do likewise. (Start with weight, amont of food and what he will and wont eat, and a pic ;) :D )
Best of luck and welcome to Pets.ca by the way.:thumbs up
You may want to pen a little about yourself and Mordekai in the Introduce yourself section. Where upon you will be requested to post many many more pictures:D
March 29th, 2007, 07:35 PM
Thank you for the guidance...here's an update. Today I tried giving him Turkey (we think he is allergic to chicken) neck and back...since he LOVES ground beef, we rolled the turkey in ground beef to see if that would entice him to try it. He puts in his mouth but doesnt seem to know that he is expected to chew...so he just drops it on the floor and tries again but again doesnt want to chew the bone. Meanwhile he will knock over a garbage bin to get at a garbage bag with left over swiss chalet chicken bones....and now he doesnt seem to know how to eat bones - :confused: ....I dont get it
So right now he is locked in the kitchen with his food dish and the turkey bones in the food dish...I have threatened not to let him out until he eats...it's been about 45 minutes and I'm about to cave in...
Are there meat ginders that would go through the bones too???
March 30th, 2007, 05:01 AM
ok, i first thing, i started to read, "fed a turkey neck & back" and was gonna say, too much bone! But you added some meat, so ok. Just make sure its enough meat. Too much bone can cause constipation. you want 80% meat, 10-15% bone, 5-10% organs. A better choice then necks and backs are whole birds, cut into proper sizes.
Ok, next step, getting the dog to eat. First, do the 10min rule. put the food out, give him 10min. If he doesnt eat it, take it away. Offer nothing, no treatsw, no nothing until next meal time. Then offer it again. I would do this for 3 days or so. Fasting him like this wont hurt him. And if hes hungry, he'll eat. If you cave and give him something else, he'll learn that if he doesnt like what hes given, wait and he'll get something better.
Now, after those 3 days and he still hasnet eaten, try to flavor it up some. Take a hot pan on the stove and quicky sear the meat. Dont cook it, just a few seconds to bring out the flavor. This helps a lot of dogs. :thumbs up
Oh, watch those cooked bones! NEVER EVER EVER give him a cooked bone! Raw bones are fine, but no cooked ones!
April 2nd, 2007, 12:04 AM
I was going to mention the 10 minute rule, I often have to skip Rileys morning feed as he plays around doesn't chow down. So 10 minutes later he looses it. If I'm feeling realy mean I give it to Missy as her breakfast and he looks so sorry for himself, dinner is usually gone in 5 :D
I starved Missy for 2 days when she refused the chicken back, but when she refused the chicken and cooked chicken breast I knew there was no way she was going to eat it, a pork riblet lasted 1 minute and now she eats anything as long as it's not chicken :shrug: I can disguise chicken heart in her mush meal and she picks it out, her chicken must be my brussel sprouts :laughing: .
Go slowly and find something that works for BOTH of you, he may be thinking he's being punished and may not want to eat, or he could be trying to be alpha about food and making the decissions. Hard to read, but stick to the 10 minute rule and aim for sucess. Once he gets the hang of eating when you want then start making a few more demands, like a turkey back before the meat, or a meaty bone (ribs would be my choice ;) ) and let him go to town. Possibly skip a meal before you start so the juices are really flowing :highfive: