Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

At my wits end

stoppinggoose
April 7th, 2004, 06:47 AM
Hi I am new here and I need help with training. This is the first time in my life I haven't been able to housetrain a dog. I got Na****a (female bullmastiff) last August from a kennel. She was 2 years old in October and I cannot housetrain her. I have washed my floor with so many products, poured straight vinegar on it to soak in, sprayed on dog repellant...........but nothing works. Last night I blocked off a section of the rec room so she didn't have to go into her crate. She loves sleeping with Hooch and I thought I would treat her. Well this morning I went down and she had crawled through a 16" space, made a mess and then crawled back in to where she was supposed to be.:mad:
I don't want to send her back because I feel I am the failure here not her but I don't know what else to try. Living in a crate 24-7 just doesn't seem fair to me.

PLEASE CAN ANYONE HELP ME?? I love her so much but I just can't put up with all the messes.

Norma

LavenderRott
April 7th, 2004, 08:13 AM
If I am reading your post right, you are not the first owner of this dog and they couldn't house train her either. First off, sleeping out of the crate at night is not an option. At least until she is housetrained.

I have a couple of questions though. What time do you go to bed? When does she eat? Is she just going pee? Has she seen a vet about this? All of these questions are important and I am not trying to be nosy, just help.

stoppinggoose
April 7th, 2004, 08:28 AM
Hi Sandi:

You are not being nosy!! She was at a breeders kennel and I took her on a breeding contract. She has 4 litters of pups and then she is all mine. She goes back to be bred and again to have her pups. She was never in a house before. They do not train their dogs at all. This couple is also my vet and I talk to them constantly about this problem. They want me to take her to an animal behavorist but I don't have the money to do that.

I feed both dogs 4 cups of food in the morning and there is usually just a couple of mouthful's left at night when they go to bed. Going to bed is usually between 9:00 pm to 10:00 pm and I am back up at 6:00am the next morning. They both go out before bedtime and again first thing in the morning. Most times she goes to the bathroom but not always. Especially if the male doesn't accompany her to the field. She is always on a leash because she runs off and right now we have alot of wolves, porcupines and skunks around. She very seldom goes 8 hours with out going outside. When she has to go the 8 hours I crate her.

I can take her outside anytime of the day and she will go most times but half an hour later she will do both duties on the floor inside. Even after a nice long walk!! I can't believe it sometimes.

Hope this helps

Norma

Lucky Rescue
April 7th, 2004, 09:21 AM
Sounds like pretty crappy breeders.

Has this dog been thoroughly checked for physical problems?


If so, and if there is nothing wrong with her, you are going to have to treat her like an unhousebroken little puppy.

Here are a ton of links on housetraining adult and problem dogs.
Housetraining (http://www.wonderpuppy.net/canwehelp/htgen.htm)

LavenderRott
April 7th, 2004, 09:53 AM
We won't go into your vet's breeding practices. I would assume your vet knows better then to breed a large breed dog that has not had the proper genetic tests run.

On to the potty training.

First, feed her twice a day. Half of what she gets in the morning, the other have around 4:00 pm. Half an hour after she eats, she needs to go out. If she doesn't empty her bowl, pick it up.

Water comes off the floor at 7:00 pm. Make sure you put down the lids on the toilet, or she will find other sources if she is thirsty. She is not going to get dehydrated by going without water overnight.

Every time she goes potty outside - act like you have never been so happy in your life! If you go outside and she doesn't go, then you have to prevent an indoor accident. You have two options.

The first is in the crate she goes. Take her back out in half an hour. Repeat as needed until she is wonderful and goes outside.

The second is to tether her to you. Put her on her leash and attach the leash to your beltloop or somehow attach it to your person. This means that she can't do ANYTHING without you knowing about it. As soon as she starts to act like she is going to go potty, scold her (verbally) and march her outside.

When you are taking her out, as you go to the door, talk to her about going out in an excited voice. Going out to go potty needs to be a fun thing. This will encourage her to let you know when she needs to go outside.

stoppinggoose
April 7th, 2004, 09:55 AM
She has no physical ailments and she doesn't have an infection. It is just like she does it for spite but I can't figure out why. I can't spend all my time with her and she is not allowed through the whole house as I have hardwood floors. I was thinking it was maybe because she doesn't like me being upstairs and she is downstairs.

The breeders are really nice people and really care for their animals and she is the first one that has never housetrained. (or so they tell me) but they are very honest people so I don't doubt them.

Thank you for the links. I will give them a try.

Also thank you so much for your help

Norma

stoppinggoose
April 7th, 2004, 10:03 AM
Sandi:

Thank you for your help too. I will certainly give the feeding and watering methods a try. Like my other post, I can't have her with me all the time because of my floors. She would destroy them. She does get real excited when I mention going outside to the bathroom and I try to make it fun for her, but the fun comes after she goes to the bathroom and lots of times she doesn't go so there isn't any fun. I like all your suggestions and will certainly give it a huge try!! Thank you Thank You THANK YOU!!

I will keep you posted as to how I make out.

As for the breeders, they are known all across North America and will only sell or breed top quality dogs. They all come from good blood lines and are very carefully documented and monitored. I have watched this kennel for awhile and they are truly one of the most respected ones in our area. With one of them being a vet, they get top quality care and are checked out to the extreme to make sure there are no problems with the breeding and temperment of these dogs. They also breed labs too.

I know some breeders don't care what they breed but I feel these people do. They don't want agressive dogs or bad blood lines. I really thank you though for making me think about it again as it is so easy to get mixed up with a bad breeder

Thanks again
Norma

Luba
April 7th, 2004, 10:15 AM
I'm guessing having had three litters she didn't have much of an opportunity to urinate outdoors?? Spending much of her time in a kennel or wherever the pups were nursing her.

She probably went where they did and got used to peeing indoors, its' warmer. She may have suffered some bladder incontinence from the pregnancies and this could make it harder for her to 'hold' her urine.

When you take her outside, keep her on lead until she eliminates. Praise her and give her a treat!

Give her a pee break just before bedtime, take her out for a pee (not a run or any play) just a pee! Again praise her and bring her inside.

Get up early in the morning, before she does and take her out for another pee break, again praise her and reward her when she pees. All you need is to give her one or two kibbles and she'll be happy to go outside.

She will get the idea, she's not rewarded for pee indoor but she is rewarded for pee outdoor.

:D

Again, keep inmind the incontinence... weakend bladder muscles could be a result of litters. Happens with humans, can happen with dogs! (IMHO)

I like some of the other advise I've read here!

When you see she 'may' be on the path to pee or poop indoors.
Grab that leash and say LETS GO OUTSIDE!! LETS GO PEE!!!
Get very excited, handful of kibbles and get out there QUICK!!

And as LavR says act like it's a huge deal when she goes outdoors! ;)

mona_b
April 7th, 2004, 11:07 AM
I'm sorry,but this is NOT a good breeder.

Fist off,she just turned 2 and has 4 litters?That is just so wrong and sad for her.Responsible breeders don't breed till the female is 2.And they will not breed in the first heat.And they will only breed when the have been OVC and OFA checked and cleared.

You say she has never been inside a house and has never been trained.And you said none of their dogs have been trained.

All licenced responsible breeders train their dogs and that goes for housebreaking.These are also their pets.Which is all done when they are pups.And their dogs are kept inside.These breeders show their dogs.So they MUST be trained.

You have not mentioned that this person shows his/her dogs.Does she have any titles?Do they belong to any clubs?Are the pups on a waiting list?Are these breeders registered with the Kennel Club?

I'm sorry if I sound harsh,but they are not good breeders.Doesn't matter how well respected they are.And we all know the difference between a bad breeder and a responsible breeder.

Also,Mastifs are prone to Bloat.She should be fed 2-3 times a day.

Also,she is not doing it for spite.She has not been housetrained.

The others have given good advise for the housebreaking.And LR posted a great site.

Here is a site you can look over.Notice it says puppies are raised indoors.

http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/Fair/1901/chart.html

Also,what brand of food is she eating?

LavenderRott
April 7th, 2004, 11:15 AM
She bought the dog on a breeding contract. The bitch must have 4 litters before she belongs to the OP. Not that uncommon or unethical.

mona_b
April 7th, 2004, 11:30 AM
Oh I know it's common on a breeding contract.Something I wouldn't do.

Sorry,but she made it sound like the female had 4 litters.

So she won't be fully hers for about 4 years.


I still would like to know more about this breeder.

Like I said,nothing was mentioned about showing or titles.

And by the sounds of the female,she is not a show dog and has no titles..She is just being used for breeding.

stoppinggoose
April 7th, 2004, 03:58 PM
I am so sorry if everyone misunderstood the number of litters Na****a has had. She must have 4 litters before she is completely mine. She had a litter in January of 13 but they all died. The breeder does a C-section on the mastiff on their due date so the mastiff doesn't struggle to have them. Apparenlty they give up having them after the first couple are born. Na****a was a really good mom to her babies. I went every day to make sure they were nursing etc. They just weren't strong enought to survive.

YES THEY HAVE A WAITING LIST FOR PUPPIES! They only breed, they do not show. The females come into the house to have the puppies and that is the only time they are in the house. They have a really nice kennel with lots of space for exercise and are handled every day but not on a leash.

I feed her ProPet Maintenace and have since I got her. Hooch has been on it from the time I got him which is 6 1/2 years ago. It is top brand as far as I'm concerned and they don't poop too much nor do they gain a whole lot of weight AND THEY LOVE IT!

I am already working on the tips given to me in this forum and I really appreciate the help.

Thank you so much everyone

Norma

mona_b
April 7th, 2004, 06:11 PM
Sorry,but I still don't think this is a good breeder.

First,they do not show their dogs.Showing a dog also proves the breeds standards.They have titles.I can go on about the other reasons.

Second.She was bred before her time.And I bet they bred her in her first heat.This is another reason she probably lost her first litter.

Third,they are only allowed in the house when they deliver.

Sorry,but I would never buy a pup from this breeder.

And yes,my dogs came from a breeder.A licence responsible breeder who is or should I say was licenced under the Canadian Kennel club.She was showing and breeding for over 20 years.She only bred once a year.And her dogs have titles.

I'm not trying to start an arguement.I'm trying to explain why this person is not a good breeder.

All responsible breeders do show their dogs.I don't think Hobby breeders do.

I saw a link on here before about breeding.I'll have to find it again.

Spoiled
April 7th, 2004, 06:21 PM
Hmmm, I don't know about this "breeder." First of all, if they don't show their dogs, then they very likely aren't show standard.

The breeder does a C-section on the mastiff on their due date so the mastiff doesn't struggle to have them.

Couldn't the puppies not be developed if he does a C-section on their due date? Doesn't it sometimes take longer for the puppies to mature enough to be born? I'm not sure about it, but I'd like to know.

Lucky Rescue
April 7th, 2004, 06:55 PM
Agree completely with MonaB. Loving the dogs does not make them good breeders.

If they are breeding only to create pets and make money, they are backyard breeders and that is bad news, particularly in dogs like Mastiffs who must be very carefully bred for temperament and good health.

Dogs should be bred ONLY to improve the breed and when the breeder needs another dog for themselves.

These people are breeding a dog who has not been shown to any titles whatsoever and is too young.

Exactly what health testing is done on the breeding stock to ensure they are clear of HD and other breed related problems?

Missy
April 7th, 2004, 09:51 PM
I feel your pain - housetraining can be very challenging :)

It sounds like your dog has a specific area that she likes to go? Is that the case?

If so, I can offer you some advice as to what I did. My puppy had an area that was papered and slowly, I began to remove the paper and she began to understand that going outside meant rewards!

And that worked for a while after I blocked the area off but once I opened up the area again a couple of months, she began going in the house again :(

So, one thing that worked for me that you could try (as you do all the other things to train the dog) is to re-define her old potty-place. What I did is place her food and water dish there. She now associates that spot with food and it has worked instantly, not one accident since then ;)

Missy
April 7th, 2004, 09:53 PM
Never let the dog see you clean up the mess - don't know why but apparantly it sends the message to them that it is okay to go in the house so you are supposed to take the dog into another room before you clean up messes. This also helped me in the beginning.