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Raw food diet - Myths?

TeriM
March 28th, 2007, 02:08 PM
OK, I know that I am probably gonna get totally flamed for this.

Let me preface it by saying that I believe in raw feeding, I have two cats that eat raw, one dog that eats raw, and the other dog eats kibble but I supplement with raw meat and the dogs get raw "entertainment" bones.

I also do not believe that raw is the ultimate solution for every animal. I do believe there are risks and that people need to understand them and then make an informed choice. There is a lot of misinformation out there.

I am presenting this information as "food for thought". It's a long article so I am just posting the link. The entire article is at http://www.secondchanceranch.org/training/raw_meat/crane.html

The "myths" they are challenging are:

Myth 1 - Claimed similarities between modern wild canids and the domestic dog, and thus modern domestic dogs therefore have identical genetic development and nutritional needs as wild canids.

Myth 2 - Claims of increased disease levels and shortened life spans in pet dogs versus claimed lack of disease and increased life spans in wild ancestral canids like wolves and coyotes.

Myth 3 - Claimed reduced levels of parasites.

Myth 4 - Claimed reduced levels of food intolerance, adverse reactions to foods, and or allergies.

Myth 5 - Claims that feeding “raw meaty bones” are good for domestic dogs.

Myth 6 – Claimed increased value of uncooked foods versus cooked foods and subsequent loss of trace micro-nutrients by the cooking process.

Scott_B
March 28th, 2007, 02:13 PM
Yeah I read that all before. Disagree with it, but thats pretty much all i can do. :p Well that and keep feeding my pup raw.

technodoll
March 28th, 2007, 02:26 PM
ah but then to be really fair and neutral, you also have to read Dr Billinghurst's rebuttal to this nonsense fiction... you'll see the whole picture then ;)

http://www.bestfrisbeedogs.com/mybluedog.html

:highfive:

worrier
March 28th, 2007, 03:12 PM
TeriM,

I'm just wondering how you feed your dogs raw and kibble at the same time?

I want to start feeding my dog raw turkey (well almost raw, I want to boil it for a few seconds first to get rid of surface bacteria for my own sake) but I'm scared it will digest slower than the kibble. Do you feed them at separate meals or together? Do you use digestive enzymes?

worrier
March 28th, 2007, 03:14 PM
ah but then to be really fair and neutral, you also have to read Dr Billinghurst's rebuttal to this nonsense fiction... you'll see the whole picture then ;)

http://www.bestfrisbeedogs.com/mybluedog.html

:highfive:

What are his sources?

TeriM
March 28th, 2007, 03:14 PM
I agree, it's good to show both sides and let people make an "informed" decision :thumbs up .

Side note:
Waaaaaahhhhhh :yell: , there is so much frigging conflicting info out there it can make a person crazy :frustrated:

TeriM
March 28th, 2007, 03:18 PM
TeriM,

I'm just wondering how you feed your dogs raw and kibble at the same time?

I want to start feeding my dog raw turkey (well almost raw, I want to boil it for a few seconds first to get rid of surface bacteria for my own sake) but I'm scared it will digest slower than the kibble. Do you feed them at separate meals or together? Do you use digestive enzymes?

My raw expert that I respect told me that it is ok to supplement kibble with raw meat (not meat and bone) up to 20% daily. I feed Riley 4 cups kibble per day (growing boy!) and add 150-200g (about 3/4 cup) of meat. She told me not to feed meat with bone together with the kibble as it will overload the whole calcium/phosphorus issue. I do give entertainment type raw bones for him about once per week.

worrier
March 28th, 2007, 03:27 PM
My raw expert that I respect told me that it is ok to supplement kibble with raw meat (not meat and bone) up to 20% daily. I feed Riley 4 cups kibble per day (growing boy!) and add 150-200g (about 3/4 cup) of meat. She told me not to feed meat with bone together with the kibble as it will overload the whole calcium/phosphorus issue. I do give entertainment type raw bones for him about once per week.

So your expert said it was ok in the same meal? Or during the same day?

I was thinking of giving him his kibble in the morning so he can burn off the grain all day and then giving him his turkey with some veggies an hour or so after his afternoon workout so he can rebuild the tissue he tore during the run. If you are friends with your expert you should ask about that! :laughing: Hook us up with some free expert knowledge! lol

I know for humans, it is optimal to get proteins and digestive aids like chlorella, fiber, etc. about 90 minutes after a workout.

technodoll
March 28th, 2007, 03:34 PM
What are his sources?

millions of years of evolution, i guess... and he IS a certified Vet after all - worrier, why are you so concerned about and focused on "sources"? just curious. your name suits you well, LOL! :D

Spirit
March 28th, 2007, 03:41 PM
Side note:
Waaaaaahhhhhh :yell: , there is so much frigging conflicting info out there it can make a person crazy :frustrated:

LOL! TOO much, in my opinion. You can disagree with any of it all you want, but that doesnt make it untrue. The biggest factor with raw is knowing how to properly feed it. I myself, hate the idea of feeding the BARF diet (and I've done more research than I care to remember), but it's a great idea in theory, and many dogs have proven to do well on it. Grains vs grain free is another debate altogether, and often gets confused with feeding raw.

Then there's homecooked, if that's an easier route for you. I knew an old lady who's youngest cat (of 3) died at 22 (her oldest at 26), and all 3 of them ate nothing but homecooked stew every night for dinner. None were sick, and they all died of old age. They were never fed raw, or kibble, in their entire lives. But that doesn't mean homecooked is better than the rest...

Feeding raw and kibble is not a good idea as they don't break down the same way, but do the research, make a desicion, and if your dog does well on it, then stick with it.

Spirit
March 28th, 2007, 03:43 PM
and he IS a certified Vet after all

If something says "Vet reccommended", I almost always stay away from it. Now if said "Animal nutritionist"... lol! :shrug: :D

worrier
March 28th, 2007, 03:43 PM
millions of years of evolution, i guess... and he IS a certified Vet after all - worrier, why are you so concerned about and focused on "sources"? just curious. your name suits you well, LOL! :D

So he has a Ph.D. in "evolution?"

Because without sources, it is all personal opinion, not science. In fairness, he could be the most brilliant doctor in the world, but I would still take everything he writes with a grain of salt if he does not support his claims with science.

Do you think canines will ever evolve past eating beavers? Why is chicken worse for them than beef?

worrier
March 28th, 2007, 03:44 PM
If something says "Vet reccommended", I almost always stay away from it. Now if said "Animal nutritionist"... lol! :shrug: :D

Exactly, there are some awfully unintelligent MDs out there, let alone vets.

technodoll
March 28th, 2007, 03:49 PM
Do you think canines will ever evolve past eating beavers? Why is chicken worse for them than beef?

that, i do not know... does anybody? :rolleyes: and nobody said chicken was better or worse for dogs than beef, it's just "different proteins". both are products of the human food chain though, not part of a wild canine's diet. i feed alot of raw chicken because the bones are edible, but i also balance with plenty of beef and pork and fish too. so far so good :D

ps: on science? i don't really believe in it. Every study "proving" A will be refuted by another one "proving" B. so yah. i trust nature and evolution instead, but that,s just me :)

technodoll
March 28th, 2007, 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirit
If something says "Vet reccommended", I almost always stay away from it. Now if said "Animal nutritionist"... lol!

Exactly, there are some awfully unintelligent MDs out there, let alone vets.

he he. that was totally tongue-in-cheek, i thought you'd get that :D

Spirit
March 28th, 2007, 03:51 PM
he he. that was totally tongue-in-cheek, i thought you'd get that :D

Are you talking to me?

worrier
March 28th, 2007, 03:52 PM
lol reminds me of the Seinfeld episode...

KRAMER: Oh, I'll take a vet over an M.D. any day. They gotta be able to cure a (Snaps his fingers in rhythm with his words) lizard, a chicken, a pig, a frog (Stops

snapping) - all on the same day.

GEORGE: So, if I may jump ahead - you're gonna take dog medicine?

KRAMER: (Smiling) You bet we are! Huh, Smuckers? (Smuckers coughs. They turn to leave) I'll see ya.

(Scene ends)

TeriM
March 28th, 2007, 03:52 PM
So your expert said it was ok in the same meal? Or during the same day?


I feed Riley 2 cups kibble in the morning usually with cottage cheese or yogurt and 2 cups at night plus the raw meat. I also think that because it is just meat not meat/bone that you won't have the digestion issues mentioned with the combined feeding.

worrier
March 28th, 2007, 03:58 PM
I feed Riley 2 cups kibble in the morning usually with cottage cheese or yogurt and 2 cups at night plus the raw meat. I also think that because it is just meat not meat/bone that you won't have the digestion issues mentioned with the combined feeding.

Well if your big boy didn't have any problems, it is likely my little one won't. :) Thanks for the info, you have set me straight on my raw food myth :laughing: This thread rocks!

technodoll
March 28th, 2007, 04:01 PM
Are you talking to me?

LOL no, i thought your reply was brilliant actually :highfive: :goodvibes:

TeriM
March 28th, 2007, 04:32 PM
Well if your big boy didn't have any problems, it is likely my little one won't. :) Thanks for the info, you have set me straight on my raw food myth :laughing: This thread rocks!

It was not my intention to steer you away from raw feeding. As stated prior, I actually feed 3 of 4 animals raw in my house. I just think people need to be aware of both sides of the issue.

worrier
March 28th, 2007, 04:49 PM
It was not my intention to steer you away from raw feeding. As stated prior, I actually feed 3 of 4 animals raw in my house. I just think people need to be aware of both sides of the issue.

No, you did the opposite, I feel better about giving him raw turkey now. :thumbs up

Spirit
March 28th, 2007, 06:15 PM
LOL no, i thought your reply was brilliant actually :highfive: :goodvibes:

Phew! Oh good. I was afraid I offended! :highfive: