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Switching food

worrier
March 23rd, 2007, 05:47 PM
okay, so I know 10 days is recommended, I have done it over 14 before just to be extra careful. my question is, is there a faster way? if there is a minute trace of anything in my boy's Wellness, I want him to stop eating it ASAP. years ago someone told me that you can switch the food instantly if you feed small amounts of food instead of the normal 1/2 cup or whatever. I know he would be hungry, but I am okay with him being hungry for a little while considering the possible alternative. any input would be great.

Prin
March 23rd, 2007, 05:48 PM
10 days is long.:o Unless he's really sensitive, he should be fine in 5 or so days... Digestive enzymes and probiotics can help too.:)

worrier
March 23rd, 2007, 06:17 PM
the lady on dogfoodproject says about 1/3 of the foods on the WDJ list shouldn't be there, is there a list of the foods she approves of on that site? I know I should be doing more research, but I want him off Wellness ASAP and the store closes at 9. I would prefer not to have to switch him again in a few weeks when I find that the food I chose wasn't the right one.

Prin
March 23rd, 2007, 06:26 PM
No, I think you have to pay for her advice to know what foods she really likes. :D

Canidae is a safe food though... It's good all around. :shrug: It's not the highest in protein, but the quality of the ingredients is better than the vast majority out there.

One Beagle Girl
March 23rd, 2007, 06:32 PM
Worrier, you can trust Prin - she really knows what she's talking about! :thumbs up

worrier
March 23rd, 2007, 06:34 PM
No, I think you have to pay for her advice to know what foods she really likes. :D

Canidae is a safe food though... It's good all around. :shrug: It's not the highest in protein, but the quality of the ingredients is better than the vast majority out there.

I guess that will have to do until I do more research. The summer is starting so I will look into higher protein foods this upcoming week since he runs like crazy all summer. He was doing so well on Wellness. :sad: I don't think I will stop worrying about trace amounts of contaminated food affecting him until he's been off of Wellness for a few months. Yes, I'm that much of a worrier. :pawprint:

worrier
March 23rd, 2007, 06:35 PM
Worrier, you can trust Prin - she really knows what she's talking about! :thumbs up

lol I know, that's why I keep asking her stuff.

Prin
March 23rd, 2007, 06:50 PM
Oo the pressure! :o If I don't know, I say I don't know.:D

Does he have any allergies you know about?

worrier
March 23rd, 2007, 08:52 PM
okay so they were out of Canidae, can you believe it?!?!

so I got this one just for the time being, not sure how I feel about him eating all that beef...

Solid Gold - Mmillennia Beef & Barley Adult Dog
Suitable for active adult dogs

Ingredients:
Beef, beef meal, cracked pearled barley, brown rice, millet, rice bran, canola oil, menhaden fish meal, flaxseed oil, parsley, thyme, dried seaweed meal, dried cranberries, dried sweet potatoes, dried apples, dried carrots, dried chicory root, carotene, choline chloride, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium panthothenate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride, vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid

Guaranteed Analysis
Protein: 22%
Fat: 12%
Fiber: 4%
Moisture: 10%

Calories
387 Kcal/cup

another question Prin:

Do you know if Solid Gold uses imported wheat?

Prin
March 23rd, 2007, 08:54 PM
Well, there's no wheat in their ingredients....:o But you can always email or call and ask them if their ingredients are home-grown or bought internationally...

worrier
March 23rd, 2007, 08:56 PM
Does he have any allergies you know about?

he has a mild ear allergy but it is unknown what from, most likely corn

Prin
March 23rd, 2007, 08:57 PM
Did he still have it on Wellness?

worrier
March 23rd, 2007, 08:58 PM
Well, there's no wheat in their ingredients....:o But you can always email or call and ask them if their ingredients are home-grown or bought internationally...

sorry I meant to say grains not wheat :o

worrier
March 23rd, 2007, 08:59 PM
Did he still have it on Wellness?

no, well once every few months maybe, but maybe that was from some human food :o

Prin
March 23rd, 2007, 09:09 PM
Ok, then it's probably not the wellness... I hope the MMillennia does it for him...:fingerscr I'm not sure how easy it'll be to switch him again after a bag, but I guess this switch will give you an idea...

The store didn't say when the Canidae would come in?

worrier
March 23rd, 2007, 09:25 PM
Ok, then it's probably not the wellness... I hope the MMillennia does it for him...:fingerscr I'm not sure how easy it'll be to switch him again after a bag, but I guess this switch will give you an idea...

The store didn't say when the Canidae would come in?

I just wanted to start switching him tonight, don't want to take any chances. If they find Wellness has some trace element of this whole fiasco in it, he will have 12 hours of a better chance. I think a few weeks of being on Millennia shouldn't be too horrible for him. In the meantime I can do proper research and figure out where to go from there, if that research leads me to Canidae, I will find a store that stocks it more regularly. :) Canidae's email made me feel the most secure, the "all our grains are US products" and "all are meat is USDA" etc. Hopefully, Solid Gold can tell me the same thing.

Prin
March 23rd, 2007, 09:27 PM
I hope so too. Will you post it if they reply? :o

worrier
March 23rd, 2007, 09:46 PM
I hope so too. Will you post it if they reply? :o

Yes of course.

And just my luck, the digestive enzymes I bought are expired and the Solid Gold has a hole in it. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Prin
March 23rd, 2007, 10:04 PM
Bring it back!:rolleyes:

worrier
March 23rd, 2007, 10:10 PM
Bring it back!:rolleyes:

I plan to, but it was an odd hole, almost like it was supposed to be there. It was on the tab where the little bag (4lbs.) was supposed to be opened, and there was a little slither of a hole there. So maybe it is ok? I can't believe I'm going into depth about a hole.

rainbow
March 23rd, 2007, 10:16 PM
Why do you keep switchin foods?

Prin
March 23rd, 2007, 10:36 PM
Does it have a clear plug in it (the hole)? It's not where they vacuum sealed it, is it?

Rainbow, worrier doesn't want to feed Wellness because of the menufoods connection...

worrier
March 23rd, 2007, 10:42 PM
Does it have a clear plug in it (the hole)? It's not where they vacuum sealed it, is it?


no clear plug that I can see, just a little slither of space exactly where the tab to open it is, no it is not where it is vacuum sealed up on top. the tab is on the short side of the bag, right in the middle towards the top.

Prin
March 23rd, 2007, 10:59 PM
Weird... When in doubt, bring it back...:o

worrier
March 23rd, 2007, 11:31 PM
Weird... When in doubt, bring it back...:o

that doesn't rhyme! how will I remember? :laughing:

Prin
March 24th, 2007, 12:48 AM
lol I just realized that.:D Well, you can't throw it out! :laughing:

worrier
March 24th, 2007, 12:57 AM
lol I just realized that.:D Well, you can't throw it out! :laughing:

I can shake it all about! :laughing:

hey Prin what do you think of these other ones in case I can not find that specific Canidae tomorrow:


New from CANIDAE! The Perfect Lamb and Rice Dry Formula. Made the CANIDAE® Way with Superior Quality in Every Bag, with No Corn, Wheat, Soy Products, Grain Fractions, Flours or Poultry Products!

CANIDAE® Lamb Meal and Rice Formula is formulated to meet the nutritional standards established by the AAFCO Dog Nutrient Profiles for all life stages.


Benefits
Made with Human-Grade Lamb and Nutritious, Whole Grain, Brown Rice
Hypoallergenic Formulation – Excellent for Problem Skin & Allergies
Pure Human-Grade Canola and Sunflower Oils
Holistic & Herbal Benefits
Natural Skin and Coat Conditioners
Balanced Omega 6 & 3 Fatty Acids
Guaranteed Prebiotics, Probiotics and Enzyme Activity
Fortified with Antioxidant Vitamins and Amino Acid Chelated Minerals
Excellent Palatability – Dogs Love the Taste!


Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein

(min.)

21.00%

Crude Fat

(min.)

12.50%

Crude Fiber

(max.)

4.00%

Moisture

(max.)

10.00%

Lenoleic Acid (Omega 6)

(min.)

3.55%

Vitamin E

(min.)

160.00

IU/kg
Calcium

(min.)

1.40%

Phosphorus

(min.)

1.00%

Zinc (min.)
260.00
mg/kg
Iron (min.)
300.00
mg/kg
Alpha Linolenic Acid (Omega 3)

(min.)

.75%

Ascorbic Acid (vitamin C)

(min.)

50.00

mg/kg
Lactobacillus Acidophilus (min.)
100 million
CFU/lb
Cellulase (a)

(min.)

100

CMCU/kg
pH


6.0

(a) One carboxymethyl cellulose unit (CMCU) is that amount of enzyme which liberates one micromole of reducing sugar (expressed as glucose equivalents) in one minute under the conditions of the assay.


Calculated Caloric Content
ME (kcal/kg) 4022
ME (kcal/g) 4.03
ME (kcal/lb) 1828
ME (kcal/cup) 457

All Natural Ingredients
Lamb Meal, Brown Rice, Canola Oil (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Flax Seed, Sun cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Lamb, Lecithin, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Linoleic Acid, Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Inulin (from Chicory Root), Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, L-Lysine, Taurine, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (source of Vitamin B2), Beta Carotene, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, D-Biotin, Organic Selenium, Dried Papaya, Dried Pineapple, Vitamin B12 Supplement.

Solid Gold - Hund-n-Flocken Adult Dog
Suitable for moderately active adult dogs

Note:
This product uses a single alternative animal protein source and may be
suitable for dogs that are allergic to regular ones like chicken or beef.

Ingredients:
Lamb, lamb meal, millet, brown rice, cracked pearled barley, oatmeal, rice bran, menhaden fish meal, canola oil, flax meal, amaranth, blueberries, dried chicory root, carotene, choline chloride, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, yucca schidigera extract, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium panthothenate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride, vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid

Guaranteed Analysis
Protein: 22%
Fat: 10%
Fiber: 4%
Moisture: 10%

Calories
367 Kcal/cup

Natural Balance - Ultra Premium Dry Dog Food
For all lifestages

Ingredients:
Chicken, brown rice, duck, lamb meal, oatmeal, pearled barley, potatoes, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols-a source of vitamin E, citric acid, and rosemary extract), natural flavor, tomato pomace, canola oil, brewers yeast, lecithin, choline chloride, carrots, potassium chloride, whole ground flaxseed, dried kelp, salt, parsley flakes, calcium carbonate, zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, vitamin E supplement, vitamin B12 supplements, ascorbic acid (vitamin C), taurine, yucca schidigera extract, l-lysine, manganese sulfate, niacin, riboflavin supplement (vitamin B2), copper proteinate, copper sulfate, d-calcium pantothenate, vitamin A acetate, inositol, folic acid, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), thiamin mononitrate (vitamin B1), d-activated animal sterol (source of vitamin D3), biotin, ethylene diamine dihydriodide (source of iodine), cobalt sulfate, menadione sodium bisulfate complex (source of vitamin K activity), sodium selenite

Guaranteed Analysis
Protein: 23%
Fat: 13%
Fiber: 3%
Moisture: 10%

Calories
485 Kcal/cup

Omega Fatty Acids
Omega 6: min 3%
Omega 3: min 0.5%
Ratio: 6:1

any of them look better than Mmillennia?

Solid Gold - Mmillennia Beef & Barley Adult Dog
Suitable for active adult dogs

Ingredients:
Beef, beef meal, cracked pearled barley, brown rice, millet, rice bran, canola oil, menhaden fish meal, flaxseed oil, parsley, thyme, dried seaweed meal, dried cranberries, dried sweet potatoes, dried apples, dried carrots, dried chicory root, carotene, choline chloride, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium panthothenate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride, vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid

Guaranteed Analysis
Protein: 22%
Fat: 12%
Fiber: 4%
Moisture: 10%

Calories
387 Kcal/cup

Prin
March 24th, 2007, 01:04 AM
Well, all three are pretty low on protein... The Canidae L&R and the DVP are the better ones of the three... I just find the Solid Gold Hundnflocken too grainy, and the dogs I know who were on it just didn't seem to be doing all that well (at least not as well as my dogs...:o). Canidae is much cheaper than DVP...

(And to be honest, I feed my doggies 1/2 Canidae L&R and 1/2 high protein food...:))

worrier
March 24th, 2007, 01:09 AM
Well, all three are pretty low on protein... The Canidae L&R and the DVP are the better ones of the three... I just find the Solid Gold Hundnflocken too grainy, and the dogs I know who were on it just didn't seem to be doing all that well (at least not as well as my dogs...:o). Canidae is much cheaper than DVP...

(And to be honest, I feed my doggies 1/2 Canidae L&R and 1/2 high protein food...:))

alright thanks, you can go to sleep now:D

Prin
March 24th, 2007, 01:11 AM
Phew! My eyes are half shut already.:D Gnite! :)

worrier
March 24th, 2007, 07:16 PM
Alright well he's switching over to L&R now, seems to like it, spits out his Wellness kibble because he wants to eat only the new ones :laughing: But then he must eat them because there is nothing else left. So I am thinking about the higher proteins you were talking about and was wondering what you thought of Orijen? More precisely, what you think of this:

Using proprietory, low-temperature (90C) processing methods, we steam-cook our fresh ingredients in small batches to preserve their natural goodness and delicious taste.

http://www.championpetfoods.com/orijen/about/

Is 90C low enough to accommodate proteins that are not in "meal" form? Because their first ingredient is not in "meal" form. Also, is 1.6% calcium too high? I notice most foods are 1.4%.

Orijen Adult
Guaranteed Analysis
Protein 40.0% (min.)
Fat 16.0% (max.)
Carbohydrate 16.0% (min.)
Moisture 10.0% (max.)
Fiber 3.0% (max.)
Calcium 1.6% (min.)
Phosphorus 1.4% (min.)
Omega-6 2.0% (min.)
Omega-3 0.7% (min.)
Glucosamine 500 mg/kg (min.)
Chondroitin 150 mg/kg (min.)
Microorganisms 40M cfu/kg
Botanical Inclusions
Marshmallow root 500 mg/kg
Chicory root 500 mg/kg
Stinging nettle 400 mg/kg
Burdock root 350 mg/kg
Fennel seed 300 mg/kg
Marigold flowers 300 mg/kg
Chamomile flowers 300 mg/kg
Milk thistle 200 mg/kg
Summer savory 150 mg/kg
Chickweed 150 mg/kg

Fresh chicken meat, chicken meal (low ash), turkey meal, steamed russet potato, fresh-caught Northern Whitefish, chicken fat, fresh whole eggs, salmon meal, salmon and anchovy oils, tapioca, chicken broth, sunflower oil, flaxseed, Atlantic kelp, steamed carrots, spinach, peas and tomatoes, sun-cured alfalfa, apple fiber, psyllium seed, rosemary extract, yeast extract (MOS), glucosamine HCl, cranberries, black currants, chondroitin sulfate.

TONIC HERBS AND BOTANICALS

Chicory, burdock and marshmallow root (FOS), rosehips, stinging nettle, marigold flowers, L-carnitine, fennel seed, chamomile flowers, milk thistle, chickweed, summer savory.

ORGANIC MINERALS

Iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate.

PROBIOTIC MICROORGANISMS

Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus casei, Bifidobacterium (B. bifidus), Saccharomyces (S. boulardii).

PREMIUM VITAMINS

Mixed tocopherols (source of vitamin E), choline chloride, vitamin A, vitamin D3, niacin, riboflavin, thiamine mononitrate, vitamin B12, folic acid, biotin, pyridoxine (source of vitamin B6).

Also, instead of mixing the L&R (21%) and high protein Orijen (40%), what about using the lower protein Acana exclusively?

Acana small breed
Guaranteed Analysis
Protein (min.) --- 28.0% Omega-6 (min.) --- 2.9 % *
Fat (min.) --- 15.0% Omega-3 (min.) --- 0.7 % *
Fiber (max.) --- 3.5 % Glucosamine (min.) --- 400 mg/kg
Moisture (max.) --- 10.0% Vitamin E (min.) --- 250 IU/Kg *
Calcium (min.) --- 1.4 % Lutein (min.) --- 100 mg/kg *
Phosphorus (min.) --- 1.2 % Carbohydrate (max.) --- 28.0 %
ME (min.) --- 4,250 kcal/kg
* Not recognized as essential by AAFCO

^ Back to Top
Ingredients

Chicken meal (low ash), steamed oatmeal, rice bran, chicken fat, ground whole flaxseed (natural source of omega 3), beet pulp (sugar removed), herring oil (natural source of DHA and EPA), chicken broth, yeast extract (MOS), chicory root (FOS), yeast culture (saccharomyces cerevisiae fermentation solubles), steamed sweet potato, yucca shidigera, marigold extract (source of lutein), atlantic kelp, carrots, tomatoes, (natural source of lycopene), apples, whole garlic, parsley, rosemary extract, cranberry, sea salt, potassium chloride, choline chloride, lysine, glucosamine HCl, chondroitin sulfate, vitamin A supplement, dl alpha-tocopherol acetate, methionine, carnitine, vitamin D3 supplement, *iron Bioplex™, *zinc Bioplex™, *manganese Bioplex™, biotin, *copper Bioplex™, niacin, riboflavin, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), vitamin B12, calcium iodate, folic acid. *chelated mineral

Vitamins (average analysis)
Vitamin A --- 34 KIU/kg Niacin --- 240 mg/kg
Vitamin D --- 2.0 KIU/kg Pyridoxine --- 30 mg/kg
Vitamin E --- 240 IU/kg Choline --- 2000 mg/kg
Vitamin K --- 2 mg/kg Biotin --- 0.6 mg/kg
Vitamin C --- 50 mg/kg Folic Acid --- 3.4 mg/kg
Riboflavin --- 44 mg/kg Vitamin B12 --- 0.4 mg/kg
Pantothenic Acid --- 39 mg/kg Beta Carotene --- 4.0 mg/kg
Thiamin --- 52 mg/kg


Amino Acids (average analysis)
Arginine --- 1.8% Methionine ---0.8%
Histidine --- 0.8% Cystine --- 0.3%
Isoleucine --- 1.0% Threonine --- 1.1%
Leucine --- 1.9% Tryptophan --- 0.23%
Lysine --- 1.8% Valine --- 1.2%
FATS
Linoleic --- 2.75% Linolenic --- 0.3%


Minerals (average analysis)
Calcium --- 1.4% Manganese --- 30 mg/kg
Phosphorus --- 1.0% Iron --- 310 mg/kg
Ca:P Ratio --- 1:1 Copper --- 16 mg/kg
Sodium --- 0.3% Cobalt --- 0.6 mg/kg
Chloride --- 0.5% Zinc --- 210 mg/kg
Potassium --- 0.6% Iodine --- 2.1 mg/kg
Magnesium --- 0.12% Selenium --- 0.4 mg/kg
Sulfur --- 0.3% Ash --- 6.9%

The large breed is 31%,. 31% seems to be closer to the mean between 21% and 40%. (he's a 20lb., middle-aged, ferocious little terrier who likes to hunt stuff)

Acana large breed
Guaranteed Analysis
Protein (min.) --- 31.0% Omega-3 (min.) --- 1.0% *
Fat (min.) --- 14.0% Lutein (min.) --- 10 mg/kg *
Fiber (max.) --- 2.5% Glucosamine (min.) --- 450 mg/kg
Moisture (max.) --- 10.0% Chondroitin (min) --- 75 mg/kg
Calcium (min.) --- 1.3% Vitamin E (min.) --- 300 IU/kg
Phosphorus (min.) --- 1.1% L-Carnitine (min.) --- 250 mg/kg *
Omega-6 (min.) --- 3.0% * ME --- 3950 kcal/kg
* Not recognized as essential by AAFCO

^ Back to Top
Ingredients

Chicken meal (low ash), steamed oatmeal, ground whole rice, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols, citric acid and rosemary), rice bran, ground flaxseed (source of Omega 3), beet pulp, herring oil (natural source of DHA and EPA), chicken broth, yeast extract (Saccharomyces cerevisiae fermentation solubles), chicory root (FOS), steamed sweet potato, dried whole egg, yucca shidigera, glucosamine HCl (powdered lobster shell), chondroitin sulfate (shark cartilage), marigold extract (source of lutein), L-carnitine supplement, Atlantic kelp, carrots, tomatoes (natural source of lycopene), apples, whole garlic, parsley, rosemary extract, cranberry, sea salt, potassium chloride, choline chloride, lysine, vitamin A supplement, dl alpha-tocopherol acetate (vitamin E), methionine, vitamin D3 supplement, *iron Bioplex™, *zinc Bioplex™, *manganese Bioplex™, biotin, *copper Bioplex™, niacin, riboflavin, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), vitamin B12, folic acid. *chelated mineral

^ Back to Top
Vitamins (average analysis)
Vitamin A --- 20 KIU/kg Niacin --- 200 mg/kg
Vitamin D --- 2.4 KIU/kg Pyridoxine --- 20 mg/kg
Vitamin E --- 400 IU/kg Choline --- 2000 mg/kg
Vitamin K --- 1.3 mg/kg Biotin --- 0.5 mg/kg
Vitamin C --- 150 mg/kg Folic Acid --- 2.5 mg/kg
Riboflavin --- 30 mg/kg Vitamin B12 --- 0.3 mg/kg
Pantothenic Acid --- 30 mg/kg Beta Carotene --- 10 mg/kg
Thiamin --- 34 mg/kg


Amino Acids (average analysis)
Arginine --- 2.0% Methionine --- 0.9%
Histidine --- 0.9% Cystine --- 0.3%
Isoleucine --- 1.1% Threonine --- 1.0%
Leucine --- 2.1% Tryptophan --- 0.23%
Lysine --- 2.0% Valine --- 1.5%
FATS
Linoleic --- 2.75% Linolenic --- 0.3%


Minerals (average analysis)
Calcium --- 1.1% Manganese --- 45 mg/kg
Phosphorus --- 0.9% Iron --- 180 mg/kg
Ca:P Ratio --- 1.2:1 Copper --- 12 mg/kg
Sodium --- 0.3% Cobalt --- 0.4 mg/kg
Chloride --- 0.5% Zinc --- 160 mg/kg
Potassium --- 0.7% Iodine --- 1.3 mg/kg
Magnesium --- 0.2% Selenium --- 0.4 mg/kg
Sulfur --- 0.33% Ash --- 7.0%

rainbow
March 24th, 2007, 11:41 PM
Orijen is much better than Acana. Both foods have been discussed many times here in the food forum. I'll see if I can find some threads for you.

worrier
March 24th, 2007, 11:57 PM
Orijen is much better than Acana. Both foods have been discussed many times here in the food forum. I'll see if I can find some threads for you.

I just assumed that because they were made by the same people, they would
be comparable. :o So as far as high protein foods to supplement his Canidae with, what are some that are on the same level or better than Orijen?

Here are some other ones that I could probably get my friends to ship here routinely:

FOUNDATIONS CHICKEN AND VEGETABLE

Formulated with chicken meat and the four basic food groups!

Foundations Chicken & Vegetable Adult Formula is a nutrient dense formula that provides your dog with quality healthy ingredients not found in other diets; carrots, potatoes, apples, cranberries, blueberries, yogurt, flax, kelp,oatmeal, glucosamine hydrochloride, chondroitin sulphate, yucca schidigera and many more. No wheat, no corn, no broken grains, no glutens, no artificial colors, and no artificial preservatives.

A "Top Approved Dry Dog Food" in the "Whole Dog Journal" since 2003


GUARANTEED ANALYSIS

Crude Protein (min) 28%

Available in 10 lb
and 30 lb bags
Crude Fat (min) 16%
Crude Fiber (max) 3%
Moisture (max) 10%
*Omega 6 Fatty Acids 3.25%
*Omega 6 Fatty Acids 0.4%
Ash (max) 7.8%
Vitamin E (min) 200 IU/kg

*not recognized as an essential nutrient by the A.A.F.C.O. dog food nutrient profile.


INGREDIENTS
Chicken Meal, Hulless Barley, Oatmeal, Ground Rice, Chicken Meat, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols (vit. E), Rice Bran, Sunflower Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols (vit. E), Salmon Meal, Flax, Dried Kelp, Dried Alfalfa Meal, Natural Chicken Flavor, Dried Whole Egg, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Propionate, Dried Whole Potatoes, Dried Whole Carrots, Dried Whole Apples, Blueberries, Cranberries, Dried Yogurt, Salt, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulphate, Yucca Schidigera, Dicalcium Phosphate, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol), Vitamin E (di alpha-tocopherol acetate), Ferrous Sulphate, *Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Oxide, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Copper Sulphate, *Copper Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Riboflavin, Calcium Iodate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Cobalt Carbonate, Vitamin K, Vitamin B12.

*these items are chelated minerals

GO! NATURAL
Chicken, Fruit, & Vegetables
Wholesome Formulations

Go Natural One Diet For One Life!

Some people enjoy meat and potatoes while others enjoy vegetables and fruits. What ever the diet choice, the end goal is to assure our children, ourselves, our parents, and our grandparents are all receiving the appropriate amount of nutrients to meet their specific activity level and/or life stage. Are your pets any different..?

At Go! Natural our nutritionists believe with the proper ingredients, pet nutrition can simulate human nutrition. To successfully provide ONE DIET FOR ONE LIFE, we have formulated with meat protein, the finest quality human grade oils, and utilized the most advanced processing techniques available today.

A "Top Approved Dry Dog Food" in the "Whole Dog Journal" since 2003

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS

Crude Protein (min) 24%
Available in 1.5lb, 8lb,
and 30lb bags
Crude Fat (min) 14%
Crude Fiber (min) 3.5%
Moisture (min) 10%
*Omega 6 Fatty Acids (min) 4.5%
*Omega 3 Fatty Acids (min) 0.61%
*Glucosamine (min) 460 mg/kg
*Chondroitin (min) 370 mg/kg
Ash (max) 7%
Vitamin E (min) 200IU/kg

*not recognized as an essential nutrient by the A.A.F.C.O. dog food nutrient profile

INGREDIENTS:

Chicken Meal, Chicken, Whole Brown Rice, Whole White Rice, Whole Barley, Sunflower Oil, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols (vit. E), Salmon Meal, Dried Whole Potatoes, Rice Bran, Natural Chicken Flavor, Dried Whole Apples, Dried Whole Carrots, Flax, Ginger, Alfalfa, Beta Carotene, Dried Whole Cranberries, Kelp, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulfate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Inulin, Yeast Culture, Lysine, Garlic, Dried Whole Eggs, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Ascorbic Acid (vit. C), Vitamin A Acetate, Cholecalciferol (vit. D3), dl alphatocopherol acetate (vit. E), Ferrous Sulfate, *Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Oxide, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Copper Sulfate, *Copper Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, *Manganese Proteinate, Riboflavin, Calcium Iodate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (vit. B6), Folic Acid, Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Cobalt Carbonate, Vitamin K, Vitamin B12.

*these items are chelated minerals

this next salmon one would please my vegetarian wife:

GO! NATURAL
Salmon & Oatmeal

Go Natural's innovative diet, created with 35% Wild Salmon, nutritious Oatmeal and Essential Omega Oils, is carefully blended to meet exacting standards that will minimize odors, maximize digestibility and deliver unsurpassed taste.

Go! Natural's Wild Salmon & Oatmeal is a truly exclusive diet featuring:

1 Novel Protein Source
1 Novel Carbohydrate Source
1 Novel Oil Source

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Crude Protein (min) 22%

Available in 1.5lb, 8lb,
and 30lb bags
Crude Fat (min) 12%
Crude Fiber (min) 3.8%
Moisture (min) 10%
Calcium (min) 1.12%
Phosphorus (min) .9%
*Omega 6 Fatty Acids (min) 2.75%
*Omega 3 Fatty Acids (min) 0.3%


*not recognized as an essential nutrient by the A.A.F.C.O. dog food nutrient profile.


INGREDIENTS

Salmon Meal, Salmon, Oatmeal, Whole Oats, Canola Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols (vit. E), Oat fiber, Inulin (FOS), Mannanoligosaccharides (MOS), Yucca Schidigera, Vitamin A Acetate, Cholecalciferol (vit. D3), dl Alpha Tocopherol Acetate (vit. E), Ferrous Sulfate, *Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Oxide, Ascorbic Acid (vit. C), Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Copper Sulfate, *Copper Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, *Manganese Proteinate, Riboflavin, Calcium Iodate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (vit. B6), Folic Acid, Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Cobalt Carbonate, Vitamin K, Vitamin B12.

*these items are chelated minerals

SUMMIT ORIGINALS
Adult Dog 3 Meat


Pets Love Summit !

Summit Original formulas supply the needed nutrition for your family friend, with unique benefits not found in competing national, premium pet food brands.

The Summit Approach:

Three Meaty Flavors – Chicken, Lamb, and Wild Salmon Superior Digestibility
Balanced Omega 3 and 6 essential fatty acids Natural Antioxidants
Premium vitamin packages Extreme Meaty Flavor
Premium mineral packages

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Crude Protein (min) 22%

Available in 1lb, 16lb,
and 33lb bags
Crude Fat (min) 9%
Crude Fiber (max) 3.5%
Moisture (max) 10%
Ash (max) 8%
Calcium (min) 1.5%
Phosphorus (min) 1%
*Omega 6 (min) 2.75%
*Omega 3 0.3%
Vitamin E (min) 163.6 IU/kg
Vitamin A (min) 29.832 IU/kg

*not recognized as an essential nutrient by the A.A.F.C.O. pet food nutrient profile.


INGREDIENTS

Chicken Meal, Barley, Corn, Oatmeal, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols (vit. E), Rice Bran, Lamb Meal, Salmon Meal, Flax, Natural Flavors, Kelp Meal, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Lysine, Dried Whole Egg, Ascorbic Acid (vit. C), Vitamin A Acetate, Cholecalciferol (vit. D), DL Alpha-Tocopherol Acetate (vit. E), Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Riboflavin, Calcium Iodate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (vit. B6), Folic Acid, Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Cobalt Carbonate, Vitamin K, Vitamin B12.

this next company's website is easier to look at than to copy and paste:

http://firstmate.com/platinum/holisticnew.htm

either that one or any others on that site that are good :o

Thank you guys for taking the time to help, if my little one only knew, he would give you endless licks (well maybe not, but he'd definitely choose you when deciding who to bring his stick/ball/squirrel to). :pawprint:

rainbow
March 25th, 2007, 12:12 AM
Innova EVO or Go Natural Grain Free.

gypsy_girl
March 25th, 2007, 12:21 AM
Go! Natural Grain Free is my vote! Although the quality of ingredients vary little between Go! Grain Free and Chicken Fruit and Vegetables, the amount of meat protien does. This is the same for Acana/Orijen. One is moderate meat, the other higher.
On second thought if your wife is a vegetarian, maybe the Salmon!

worrier
March 25th, 2007, 01:17 AM
Go! Natural Grain Free is my vote! Although the quality of ingredients vary little between Go! Grain Free and Chicken Fruit and Vegetables, the amount of meat protien does. This is the same for Acana/Orijen. One is moderate meat, the other higher.
On second thought if your wife is a vegetarian, maybe the Salmon!

Well she can be hypocritical sometimes with that, :laughing: and I don't think a dog should be influenced by vegetarianism. Personally, I think a very lean meat like turkey would be great, but that is a very uneducated opinion so I could be way off. Salmon is quite fatty, but if the manufacturing process accounts for the higher fat content, that could be completely irrelevant.

Is there a thread debating feeding a mix of low and high protein foods vs. feeding just high protein? Prin, you said earlier in this thread that you use the former method, is that because of the research you've done or because that is what works well for your particular dogs? If what is best for him is a combination of low and high protein foods, I want to find the best of both, that is why I am posting both 21%-26% protein foods and the 40%+ ones. :)

TeriM
March 25th, 2007, 01:24 AM
There is no hard and fast rule for the perfect food. Sometimes the most spectacular food just doesn't work for your dog. Some dogs are easy and anything works but more likely there will be one food that is just a little bit better for your animal. Pick a few good ones that you are comfortable with and try them.

Some dogs do great on high protein and some dogs get bad coats and funny poops. There does seem to be a lot of people here mixing high and low because ideally we'd like something in between the 22-26% and the 40%+.

rainbow
March 25th, 2007, 01:36 AM
If you want something in between try Timberwolf Organics Wild & Natural.....it's 36% protein. Or, there's a new one I recently heard about called Great Life....it's 34 or 36% protein. :)

rainbow
March 25th, 2007, 02:30 AM
In case you're wondering about Great Life here's the info.....it ranges from 33% to 38.12% protein:

From www.1doctorschoice.com ......


GREAT LIFE

GRAIN/POTATO-FREE

DOG FOOD FOR THE NEXT GENERATION

Made with Natural and Organic Ingredients

No Corn, Rice, By-Products, Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Fish Meal, Hormones, Pesticides, Steroids, Soy, Rendered Meat, Antibiotics, Allergy Free

Full Active Healthy Nutrition


So what’s the big deal with dogs and cats eating potatoes and grain—humans do that every day!

For the past fifty years, commercial pet food companies have assured us their pet foods are "nutritionally complete and balanced," or "scientifically balanced." They tell us these statements are formulated on study after study. Most of these foods are grain based—whole wheat, barley, oats, corn meal, or rice, with added synthetic vitamins and minerals. The latest trend in pet foods is the addition of potatoes. We love potatoes so why would we deny them to our pets? Because they contain a carcinogen—acrylamide--and as a daily maintenance food, potatoes are not a health food! The August 14, 2002, issue of the Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry, reported that researchers at Stockholm University had evidence of the presence of high levels of acrylamide in carbohydrate rich foods like potatoes. Acrylamide induces gene mutations and has been found in animal tests to cause malignant stomach tumors. It is also known to cause damage to the central and peripheral nervous system. This can be a major reason for the dramatic increase in cancer and other health problems.

We have come to believe all of the propaganda surrounding the advertising campaigns of the large corporate pet food companies. The visual effects are stunning—a gorgeous dog running across fields with the sun glistening on its coat! Wow! But recently, a growing number of pet owners have begun to question the corporate pet food giants. Yes, the foods will sustain life but what quality of life and at what veterinary costs? The majority of pet companies utilize potatoes in their pet foods including veterinarian brand foods.

To help you take your pets back to an age when they were lean, healthy, and active from eating nature’s perfect GRAIN-FREE diet, we have created Great Life’s Grain/Potato-Free Diet for dogs and cats. As with our other pet foods, we have a unique process that allows us to bring you the raw foods your pets crave layered on a grain free kibble enclosed in wild salmon and organic coconut oil. NO refrigeration needed. Look at the ingredients and you’ll agree this food will help your pet live a longer, happier and healthier life.

Wholistic Kibble Ingredients:

We start with a base of free-range chicken, beef or buffalo or wild caught salmon and beef (cats). We use USDA human grade quality meats that do not contain rendered meats, hormones, pesticides or antibiotics. To these, we add the following:

Tapioca: a starch from the fleshy root of the cassava, made into"flour" contains calcium and small amounts of minerals.

Jicama: a legume grown for its large root is used as a starch. Jicama, a very good source of fiber, also contains potassium, and is high in vitamin C

Yams: starchy rhizomes containing good amounts of vitamin B6, potassium, and other nutrients. Yams contain a unique fat-like substance called diosgenin, which is classified as a hormone-like molecule and is currently being studied for its potential anti-cancer effects.

Pumpkin: low in calories and fat, pumpkin contains a wide variety of vitamins and minerals, plus lots of vitamin A, carotenoids, and is an excellent source of fiber and helps expel worms.

Peas: are bursting with nutrients--8 vitamins, 7 minerals, dietary fiber and protein. These nutrients help support the energy-producing cells and systems of the body.

Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols): Dogs require fat in their diet for energy, as building blocks for hormones, and for a healthy nervous system. Chicken fat is an excellent fat because it is easily digested and contains good amounts of essential linoleic fatty acids and Omega 3 fatty acids. These essential fatty acids are involved in the body’s response to inflammation, swelling, redness, and itching.

Flaxseeds: are abundant in omega 3 fatty acids, which are needed to produce flexible cell membranes. The body uses these fatty acids to form substances that offer protection against heart disease, diabetes, and cancer. They are also important to the skin and coat and provide important fiber.

Sun cured Alfalfa Meal: Alfalfa provides essential vitamins and minerals and is commonly used to detoxify the body, to help ease inflammation, and balance hormones. It is soothing to the digestive tract, improves the appetite and aids in nutrient assimilation.

Blueberries: are one of the richest sources of antioxidant phytonutrients protecting the body and brain from oxidative stress.

Cranberries: a cousin to the blueberry, they are unique in their ability to protect and treat the urinary tract and other mucous membranes against infections by preventing the adhesion of pathogens.

Kelp: This sea vegetable contains almost every mineral and trace mineral necessary for the health of mammals; it also contains amino acids and vitamins. Kelp boosts the immune system, regulates the glands, promotes regular heat cycles, supports motility of male semen, promotes a healthy coat, and detoxifies the body.

Eggs: are a great source of easily digested protein, and choline. Choline is a key component of acetylcholine. A neurotransmitter that carries messages from and to nerves, acetylcholine is the body's primary chemical means of communication between nerves and muscles. The pesticides and herbicides in common use are designed to destroy this neurotransmitter in insects but it can carry over to other species. Eggs are a rich source of lutein, a carotenoid thought to help prevent cataracts, and a source of B-vitamins, including vitamin B12.


Mangosteen: is a Southeast Asian fruit that has been used to relieve skin conditions, treat allergies, support the nervous system, as well as the cardiovascular system; aids in treating urinary and digestive problems. It is rich in phytoceuticals and antioxidants plus vitamins and minerals.

Reishi Mushroom: (Ganoderma lucidum) has been used in oriental medicine for thousands of years. Recent studies suggest reishi has beneficial action in treating diabetes mellitus, anti-tumor effect, and high blood pressure. In Japan, it is used as cardiotonic to treat circulatory problems. It has anti-allergenic properties because it inhibits release of histamine, which causes the body’s allergic reaction.

Turkey Tail: and its immune-enhancing activities have been extensively studied in Japan since mid 1970's; over 300 clinical studies have been conducted. The active constituent, PSP (polysaccharide peptide), is currently gaining respect for its effectiveness against tumors both in laboratory experiments and in clinical studies. Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center in New York, and the M.D. Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, both recommend this mushroom as a supplement for chemo patients. Turkey tail it is also gaining recognition for its remarkable anti-aging qualities, and its use as an anti-virus and anti-inflammatory in the treatment of infection and inflammation of the upper respiratory, urinary and digestive tracts, including liver ailments, hepatitis B and chronic active hepatitis.


Artichoke: Artichokes are nutrient dense with 16 essential nutrients! One of these, cynarin, a compound found in the leaves, demonstrates benefits to the liver; silymarin, another compound found in artichokes has powerful antioxidant properties and is believed to help the liver regenerate healthy tissue. Artichokes provide the important minerals magnesium, chromium, manganese, potassium, phosphorus, iron and calcium. In addition to all these important minerals, artichokes are a good source of fiber.

Garlic: Whole volumes have been written about this nutrient rich food with anti-inflammatory, anti-bacterial and anti-viral activities. Garlic also contains good amounts of vitamin C, vitamin B6, selenium, manganese and other minerals.

Parsley is a storehouse of nutrients including vitamins A, B, C and E, potassium, iron, magnesium, chlorophyll, and organic sulfur. The flavanoids and volatile oil components of parsley help the body resist infection, neutralize some carcinogens and help stop the multiplication of tumor cells. The volatile oils – particularly myristicin – have been shown to inhibit tumor formation in animal studies and to aid the body in using enzymes. Parsley assists the bladder, thyroid gland, kidneys, liver, and lungs. The flavanoids in parsley – especially luteolin – have been shown to function as antioxidants. In addition to these unique compounds, parsley contains vitamin C, beta-carotene, and folic acid. It cleanses the blood, stimulates the digestive system, maintains healthy skin, helps expel worms, and refreshes the breath. What a powerhouse leafy green plant this is!

Kale: is a leafy green vegetable rich in health promoting, sulfur-containing phytochemicals, carotenoids, pro-vitamin A, vitamin C, vitamin B6, minerals including calcium, and plant fiber.

Organic Coconut Oil which helps regulate thyroid function, fights immune diseases, is anti-viral, antibacterial, and antiprotozoal (giardia); helps an animal to destroy lipid coated viruses and various pathogenic bacteria. Coconut oil is a digestive aid, especially important for inflammatory bowel disorders. As an antioxidant, it is 50 times more potent than Vitamin E, 15 times more potent than carrots, and 300 times more potent than tomatoes.

Wild Salmon Oil contains a wealth of essential fatty acids that benefit the heart and circulatory system, as well as nervous system development, immune system function and skin and coat. Why "wild salmon?" A 2004 study published in the journal Science showed levels of contaminants such as PCBs, dioxins, dieldrin, toxaphene and other pesticides, were significantly higher in farmed salmon than in their wild counterparts; we use only WILD salmon oil.

Dog Food Flavors:

Chicken:
Raw Food:
Freeze dried chicken, freeze dried chicken liver, ground chicken necks, fresh bok choy, inulin, green tripe, fresh mixed baby sprouts, coral calcium + 74 trace minerals, active pre & probiotics, full spectrum of digestive enzymes, enclosed in wild salmon and organic coconut oil

Wholistic Kibble
Whole chicken. tapioca, jicama, yams, pumpkin, peas, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), flaxseed, suncured alfalfa meal, blueberries, cranberries, kelp, eggs, mangosteen, reishi mushroom, turkey tail, artichoke, garlic, parsley, kale, full spectrum chelated minerals and vitamins.

Buffalo:
Raw Food:
Freeze dried buffalo, freeze dried buffalo liver, freeze dried ground buffalo bone, fresh bok choy, inulin, green tripe, fresh mixed baby sprouts, coral calcium + 74 trace minerals, active pre & probiotics, full spectrum digestive enzymes all enclosed in wild salmon and organic coconut oil.

Wholistic Kibble:
Buffalo meat, tapioca, jicama, yams, pumpkin, peas, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), flaxseed, suncured alfalfa meal, blueberries, cranberries, kelp, eggs, mangosteen reishi mushroom, turkey tail, artichoke, garlic, parsley, kale. full spectrum chelated minerals and vitamins.

(Buffalo is a very clean, leaner, meat source with no known health problems. It is a good food for dogs with allergies.)

Analysis

Buffalo

Protein 33%

Fat 17.77%

Fiber max 4%

Moisture 10% max

D.E. CAL/LB 1723



Chicken

Protein 38.12%

Fat less than 20%

Fiber 4% Max.

Moisture 10% max

D.E. CAL/LB 1812



Lamb

Protein 33%

Fat less than 17%

Fiber max 4%

Moiture 10% max

D.E. CAL/LB 1793

We feel this is the maximum amount of protein an animal shoud receive. Higher protein counts may lead to Constipation, Crystals, Irritable Bowel Syndrome, Blood Toxicity, Organ Damage.

rainbow
March 25th, 2007, 02:33 AM
And, here's the ingredients for Timberwolf Organics Wild & Natural:

Wild & Natural Dry™ Canid Formula

Ingredients:
Chicken Meal, Fresh Chicken, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and rosemary extract), Low Ash Salmon Meal, Potatoes, Sardine/Mackerel/Anchovy/Tuna Oils (preserved with mixed tocopherols and rosemary extract) Eggs, Dried Chicken Liver, Dried Whole Milk, Dried Whey Extract, Kelp, Alfalfa Leaf, Casein, DL – Methionine, Potassium Chloride, Lecithin, Taurine, Lysine, Carnitine, Choline Chloride, Creatine, Probiotics: (Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Bifidobacterium Thermophilum Fermentation, Bifidobacterium Longum Fermentation Product, Enterbacter Faecium Fermentaion Product, Bacillus Subtillus Fermentation Product, Blueberries, Cranberries, Mixed Tocopherols (a source of vitamin E), Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Thiamine, Niacin, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Iodine Proteinate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Biotin, Folic Acid, Pyridoxine (a source of vitamin B6), Cobalt Proteinate, Papain, Yucca Schidigera Extract.


Protein: 36%
Fat: 18%
Fiber: 2.5%
Moisture: 9%
ASH: 5%
Kcal/kg: 3,980
OMEGA-6 FATTY ACIDS: 3.4%
OMEGA-3 FATTY ACIDS: 1.2%
CALCIUM: 1.4%
PHOSPHOROUS: 1.1
VITAMIN A: 22,000 IU/KG
VITAMIN D: 1,200 IU/KG
VITAMIN E: 350 IU/KG
COPPER: 16mg/KG

worrier
March 25th, 2007, 03:16 AM
Thank you so much, I will look into these as well. I love how there are only two main ingredients and they are chicken meal and chicken! Is 2.5% fiber ok? I seem to see 3 or 4% usually. I have a lot of research to do over the next few weeks. :party:

ps. this is concerning me:

Go! Natural (Petcurean): Canned diets made at Menu Foods in Canada but have not been recalled.

Timberwolf Organics: Just released one canned diet and working on additions, it is unsure where this is made, but due to the size of Menu Foods I highly doubt it is being done there. Kibble was at one point being co-packed somewhere in PA but I've heard rumors that it is now being made out of the Diamond Plant. I cannot confirm this and the company will not give out information.

pps. :D this is the firstmate one: http://firstmate.com/platinum/holisticnew.htm

Our fresh fruits and vegetables add variety to your pet’s overall diet. Cranberries and blueberries have antioxidant properties that benefit and stimulate the immune system. Bee pollen is a unique and strong source of amino acids, the building blocks of protein. Organic spelt is one of the oldest of the cultivated grains and is highly nutritious.

Whole chicken, chicken meal, whole ground brown rice, pearled barley, organic spelt, whole steamed potatoes, herring meal, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), sardine oil, whole raw apples, whole steamed carrots, zeolite(TF183), alfalfa sprouts, dried kelp, Whole cranberries, whole blueberries, cottage cheese, organic flax, avocado oil, garlic, Yucca plant extract, rosemary, bee pollen, Spirulina algae.

Vitamin C, vitamin A, vitamin D, vitamin E, vitamin K, thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, pyridoxine, vitamin B12, d-pantothenic acid, folic acid, d-biotin, iron, zinc proteinate, manganese, copper proteinate, iodine, cobalt, selenium, glucanase, protease, amylase, cellulase, (Bacillus subtilis fermentation extract used as an aid to digestion), probiotic Lactobacillus acidophilus.

Protein (minimum)...................25.0%
Fat (minimum).......................15.0%
Moisture (maximum)................10.0%
Fibre (maximum).................... 4.0%
Ash (maximum)..................... 10.0%
Calcium (actual)..................... 1.0% Phosphorus (actual)................. 0.6% Calcium/Phosphorus ratio.........1.6:1.0 Digestible Energy.........3600 KCAL/kg


What does "whole chicken" mean? lol

Prin
March 25th, 2007, 11:52 AM
The calcium is ok in the high protein foods as long as it's not for a puppy. With calcium, you have to take into account the phosphorus. As long as they're in the right ratio together, it's ok.

For the fiber, if you're using the high protein as a supplement, then it doesn't matter so much (might firm up the stool a little), but if you feed it alone, you just have to watch for constipation. It happens sometimes, but when my two were on high protein alone, they never had a problem.

Whole chicken, is whole chicken.:D Not dehydrated or anything.

Orijen, I believe, is not at all part of the recall. Neither is Solid Gold (they have a high protein food too).

worrier
March 25th, 2007, 12:28 PM
The calcium is ok in the high protein foods as long as it's not for a puppy. With calcium, you have to take into account the phosphorus. As long as they're in the right ratio together, it's ok.

For the fiber, if you're using the high protein as a supplement, then it doesn't matter so much (might firm up the stool a little), but if you feed it alone, you just have to watch for constipation. It happens sometimes, but when my two were on high protein alone, they never had a problem.


Alright, and what about the 90C temp thing, is that lower than most kibble ovens? :laughing: here is what they say on their site...

Using proprietory, low-temperature (90C) processing methods, we steam-cook our fresh ingredients in small batches to preserve their natural goodness and delicious taste.

I haven't even started reading about processing methods.

Prin
March 25th, 2007, 12:32 PM
Yeah, I think it's lower. Most extruders are flaming hot.. :o

worrier
March 25th, 2007, 01:34 PM
another one...


FROMM
Chicken À La Veg
FOR DOGS

Your dog is sure to love this gourmet entrée. Chicken À La Veg is a specially prepared holistic blend of lean chicken, specialty grains, and fine produce delivered fresh daily, never dried or pre-processed.

* Fresh Hand-Trimmed USDA Chicken
* Chicken Cartilage Rich in Natural Glucosamine
* Real Wisconsin Cheddar Cheese
* Prebiotics & Probiotics to Aid Digestion
* Optimum Omega Fatty Acids Ratio

Ingredients:
Chicken, Chicken Meal, Pearled Barley, Oatmeal, Sweet Potato, Brown Rice, White Rice, Whole Dried Egg, Menhaden Fish Meal, Millet, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Dried Tomato Pomace, Safflower Oil, Herring Meal, Cheese, Flaxseed, Carrots, Broccoli, Cauliflower, Apples, Green Beans, Lecithin, Chicken Cartilage, Potassium Chloride, Cranberries, Blueberries, Salt, Monocalcium Phosphate, Chicory Root Extract, Alfalfa Sprouts, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Folic Acid, Parsley, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Bifidobacterium Longum, Enterococcous Faecium, Vitamin A, D3, E, B12 Supplements, Choline Bitartrate, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Ascorbic Acid, Riboflavin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Cobalt Carbonate, Calcium Iodate, Sorbic Acid, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Sodium Selenite.

Calorie Content:
kcal/gm: 3.968 | oz/cup: 3.3 | kcal/lb: 1,800 | kcal/cup: 370

Guaranteed Analysis
Protein 24% Min
Fat 15% Min
Fiber 3% Max
Moisture 10% Max
Ash 6.5% Max
Omega 6 Fatty Acids 2.6% Min
Omega 3 Fatty Acids 0.4% Min
Lactobacillus Acidophilus 100,000,000 CFU/lb Min
Bifidobacterium Longum 100,000,000 CFU/lb Min
Lactobacillus Plantarum 100,000,000 CFU/lb Min
Enterococcous Faecium 100,000,000 CFU/lb Min

Typical Analysis
Calcium 1.2%
Phosphorus 1.0%
Sodium 0.4%
Potassium 0.6%
Magnesium 0.12%
Zinc 135 mg/kg
Iron 229 mg/kg
Manganese 70 mg/kg
Copper 11.0 mg/kg
Cobalt 0.4 mg/kg
Iodine 1.53 mg/kg
Selenium 0.47 mg/kg
Glucosamine 400 ppm
Chondroiten 40 ppm
Vitamin A 18,200 IU/kg
Vitamin D 1,300 IU/kg
Vitamin E 180 IU/kg
Vitamin K 1.52 mg/kg
Vitamin B12 0.10 mg/kg
Choline Chloride 2,320 mg/kg
Niacin 82 mg/kg
Pantothenic Acid 26 mg/kg
Ascorbic Acid (Vit C) 38 mg/kg
Riboflavin 7 mg/kg
Thiamine 8.7 mg/kg
Pyridoxine 4.2 mg/kg
Folic Acid 1.4 mg/kg
Biotin 0.3 mg/kg

Prin
March 25th, 2007, 01:37 PM
Is that Fromm? Fromm is ok... That food's a little grainy though.

Pearled Barley, Oatmeal, (Sweet Potato), Brown Rice, White Rice, [...] Millet,

worrier
March 25th, 2007, 01:44 PM
Is that Fromm? Fromm is ok... That food's a little grainy though.

Pearled Barley, Oatmeal, (Sweet Potato), Brown Rice, White Rice, [...] Millet,

yea looked grainy even to me :p

worrier
March 25th, 2007, 10:46 PM
My post from the Penny thread:


I just started switching my guy over to Canidae L&R from Wellness and he immediately developed his ear allergy again. I though it was just corn he was allergic to, but after looking over the ingredients again I think it may be flax as well. Flax seed is very high up on the Canidae ingredients but pretty low down on the Wellness ingredients, so that may explain why he was getting some reactions with Wellness but very rarely and pretty mild.

Unfortunately, I have no way of knowing yet if it is the Canidae that is causing it or the few licks of creamed corn my nephew unwittingly gave him 2 days ago. :shrug: I think I will continue feeding him 1/2 Wellness, 1/2 Canidae until I see it either persisting or clearing up, that way I can continue the switch without starting it all over again if it was in fact the creamed corn. :pawprint:

Looking back on all these foods, only one does not contain flax and it is this:

And, here's the ingredients for Timberwolf Organics Wild & Natural:

Wild & Natural Dry™ Canid Formula

Ingredients:
Chicken Meal, Fresh Chicken, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and rosemary extract), Low Ash Salmon Meal, Potatoes, Sardine/Mackerel/Anchovy/Tuna Oils (preserved with mixed tocopherols and rosemary extract) Eggs, Dried Chicken Liver, Dried Whole Milk, Dried Whey Extract, Kelp, Alfalfa Leaf, Casein, DL – Methionine, Potassium Chloride, Lecithin, Taurine, Lysine, Carnitine, Choline Chloride, Creatine, Probiotics: (Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Bifidobacterium Thermophilum Fermentation, Bifidobacterium Longum Fermentation Product, Enterbacter Faecium Fermentaion Product, Bacillus Subtillus Fermentation Product, Blueberries, Cranberries, Mixed Tocopherols (a source of vitamin E), Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Thiamine, Niacin, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Iodine Proteinate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Biotin, Folic Acid, Pyridoxine (a source of vitamin B6), Cobalt Proteinate, Papain, Yucca Schidigera Extract.

Protein: 36%
Fat: 18%
Fiber: 2.5%
Moisture: 9%
ASH: 5%
Kcal/kg: 3,980
OMEGA-6 FATTY ACIDS: 3.4%
OMEGA-3 FATTY ACIDS: 1.2%
CALCIUM: 1.4%
PHOSPHOROUS: 1.1
VITAMIN A: 22,000 IU/KG
VITAMIN D: 1,200 IU/KG
VITAMIN E: 350 IU/KG
COPPER: 16mg/KG

but this concerns me a little:

Timberwolf Organics: Just released one canned diet and working on additions, it is unsure where this is made, but due to the size of Menu Foods I highly doubt it is being done there. Kibble was at one point being co-packed somewhere in PA but I've heard rumors that it is now being made out of the Diamond Plant. I cannot confirm this and the company will not give out information.

Also, is 36% too high? Being a neophobic, I don't want to go higher than maybe 30% right now. So I would still need another food to water the TO down with a little.:dog:

edit: Maybe this other TO to mix it with?

Ocean Blue™ Canid Formula 4lb/1.8kg

Ocean Blue is Grain Free

A unique formula that may be used for clearing up dermatologic and other conditions caused by adverse food reactions or from the buildup of toxins. This formula may also be used for the feeding of animals that require a moderate protein diet because of disease and may be used in the management of canine obesity. Ocean Blue Canid Formula™ is fully balanced and meets the requirements of all life stages It has high levels omega 3 essential fatty acids, from our wild salmon oil including EPA and DHA.

PROTEIN: 26%
FAT: 16%
FIBER: 3%
MOISTURE: 9%
ASH: 6%
Kcal/kg: 3,675
OMEGA-6 FATTY ACIDS: 3.4%
OMEGA-3 FATTY ACIDS: 1.4%
CALCIUM: 1.5%
PHOSPHOROUS: .9%
VITAMIN A: 22,000 IU/KG
VITAMIN D: 1,400 IU/KG
VITAMIN E: 350 IU/KG
COPPER: 16mg/KG

Ocean Blue contains Sardine, mackerel, anchovy, tuna oils, and gourmet walnut oil. Ocean Blue also has fruits and herbs such as thyme, basil, anise, blueberries, and cranberries, pears, and mint. All of which are used to help in digestion and for the their anti-oxidant properties. Ocean Blue™ Canid Formula can be used as B.A.R.F. mixer and so it is great for those who would like to add in their own protein sources.

Ingredients: Low Ash White Fish Meal, Salmon, Potatoes, Sardine/Mackerel/Anchovy/Tuna Oils, Kelp, Hydrated Alfalfa Leaf Leaf, Potassium Chloride, Carrot, Watercress, Spinach, Celery, Parsley, Fennel Seed, Blueberries, Cranberries, Pears, Figs, Thyme, Anise Seed, Ground Cinnamon Bark, Fenugreek, Garlic Pieces, Sunflower Seeds, Sesame Seeds, Apples, Taurine, Spirulina, Choline Chloride, Lecithin, Probiotics: (Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Lactobacillus Casei, Lactobacillus Lactis, Bacillus Bifidum, Streptococcus Diacetilactis, Bacillus Subtillus), Taurine, Mixed Tocopherols (a source of vitamin E), Lysine, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Thiamine, Methionine, Carnitine, Niacin, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Iodine Proteinate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Biotin, Folic Acid, Pyridoxine (a source of vitamin B6), Copper Proteinate, Selenium Proteinate, Cobalt Proteinate, Papain, Yucca Schidigera Extract.

Is that bold part up there the main fat source? it has to be... how to do fish fats compare with chicken fats in respect to canines? I know a reeeeeally old lady (100+) that drank pure chicken fat all the time. :) Someone should probably clone her... wonderful woman in every way.

clm
March 25th, 2007, 10:55 PM
Timberwolf is going to have to advise where they're products are produced before I'll try them. I know lot's of people like their food and trust it, but I get uneasy when a company won't let you know where there stuff is being produced in light of the problems with food lately.

Cindy

worrier
March 26th, 2007, 11:50 AM
Alright, well I think I'm going to try and do the 1/2 and 1/2 thing with the Ocean Blue and the Wild & Natural. I'm going to leave him on the Canidae L&R for a week or so to see if he has that flax allergy and then start the switch (I'm thinking now it might have been a little beef he ate :o he never gets beef, but I gave him some the day before yesterday because I was worried about him getting almost no protein :o :o :o.

So anyone that has experienced negative results on TO, you better speak up!! lol.

Prin, Rainbow, other food gurus, what do you guys think? I'm excited that he will be grain-free! Hopefully, all will go well.

Again, thank you guys so much for your help and patience, I realize now I could have searched for a lot of the info you provided. So yeah, tank you! :love:

rainbow
March 26th, 2007, 12:56 PM
I think the TO Ocean Blue and Wild & Natural is an excellent choice. I'm sure he will love it. Make sure you add it slowly to the Canidae L & R to switch him. :)

rainbow
March 26th, 2007, 01:02 PM
Timberwolf is going to have to advise where they're products are produced before I'll try them. I know lot's of people like their food and trust it, but I get uneasy when a company won't let you know where there stuff is being produced in light of the problems with food lately.

Cindy


Cindy, I posted what I found out here:

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=399039&posted=1#post399039

worrier
March 26th, 2007, 07:49 PM
One last question before I go out and get all this TO :p

All this talk of higher proteins... I just want to make sure you guys know that my guy is a little guy, not a big guy. He's a 20 pound terrier mutterbutter (Cairn/Fox/some others probably), so this higher protein stuff is ok for small breeds? I have been finding so much conflicting info online. Most things I read say he should be eating 25-28%. With this new combo he will be going up from 22% (the Wellness he was on) to 31% (the two TO's combined, 26 and 36). Maybe I should take him up to 26% first, and see how he is? I think that would be smart, but my childish giddiness is wanting him to be as healthy as possible ASAP, after all, a few weeks of their lives is like a few months of ours.

worrier
March 27th, 2007, 07:01 AM
some more questions... :o

1. Looking over the ingredients in Wild&Natural once more I saw that it has CREATINE in it! Is this good for dogs? I would never give a human creatine.

2. Is it ok to feed 3 kinds of kibble at the same time if I am phasing one out and switching to a diet that comprises of 2 different ones?

clm
March 27th, 2007, 07:28 AM
Thanks Rainbow, I did see that thread and it didn't really make me feel any better about the Timberwolf brand. I think a lot of people have really noticed Timberwolf hiding behind that proprietary information shield, kudo's to whoever for finding out where their stuff is produced. They may have an excellent food, it may be the best on the market, but being secretive about who produces your product isn't going to win people over. Recipies and production methods can be proprietary to an extent, but not who produces your product for you IMO. :shrug:
I'm really leaning towards the Orijen brand for my new pups....I like their ingredients and the analysis of those ingredients. They seem to be pretty forthcoming with how their product is produced as well.
I switched the cats over to the feline version and they're loving it.
This site has been a great help on giving me the information on good foods and what ingredients to look for in a quality food for both cats and dogs. I've had dogs and cats for many years and while I wasn't feeding them some of the worst foods out there, I certainly could have been feeding them much better ones. I thank you all for opening my eyes to healthier eating for my furry friends :thumbs up
Even the raccoons and possums that come to the dishes at night are getting fed the best now. :laughing:

Cindy

worrier
March 27th, 2007, 08:29 AM
The calcium is ok in the high protein foods as long as it's not for a puppy. With calcium, you have to take into account the phosphorus. As long as they're in the right ratio together, it's ok.


What did you mean by this post?

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=296148&postcount=91

worrier
March 27th, 2007, 09:38 AM
some more questions... :o

1. Looking over the ingredients in Wild&Natural once more I saw that it has CREATINE in it! Is this good for dogs? I would never give a human creatine.

2. Is it ok to feed 3 kinds of kibble at the same time if I am phasing one out and switching to a diet that comprises of 2 different ones?

just to add to this...

So, temporarily I'm looking away from wild&Natural because of the creatine, but I'm still thikning "okay well the Ocean Blue one still looks good." Now I notice this:

CALCIUM: 1.5%
PHOSPHOROUS: .9%

Isn't that an odd ratio or something? :shrug:

grrr.

Prin
March 28th, 2007, 07:27 PM
Don't know what the point of creatinine is other than to bump up the muscle tone to make the food look good...:o

For the calcium/protein ratio, it's supposed to be around 1.2-2:1 calcium to phosphorus.

I would just switch to one kibble and then introduce the second one later, once the dog has adjusted to the first one.

worrier
March 28th, 2007, 09:27 PM
Don't know what the point of creatinine is other than to bump up the muscle tone to make the food look good...:o

For the calcium/protein ratio, it's supposed to be around 1.2-2:1 calcium to phosphorus.

I would just switch to one kibble and then introduce the second one later, once the dog has adjusted to the first one.

Okay, so 1.5/0.9 should be ok then? That is the Ocean Blue ratio, I have it memorized. :laughing:

I think I have decided to feed kibble in the morning (Ocean Blue possibly/maybe mixed with a little Canidae) and then raw turkey breast (boneless, skinless, boiled for 10 seconds to kill bacteria for the human sake) diced up with some veggies (maybe) and a little kibble (maybe) and all his supplements (fish oil, primrose, probiotics) in the evening after his run. How does that sound? :shrug:

Prin
March 28th, 2007, 09:29 PM
I'd put the probiotics in with the kibble instead. But otherwise, everything sounds ok.:)

worrier
March 28th, 2007, 09:33 PM
:thumbs up :party: :dog:

worrier
March 29th, 2007, 01:29 PM
Not taking the risk of being lynched for starting another X vs Y thread, what do you guys think is a better fat source? Canola? Chicken fat?

Prin
March 29th, 2007, 01:39 PM
Hmm... Each has their own pros and cons...

Chicken fat is high in saturated fat, but supposedly they are able to suck the nutrition out of it more efficiently.

Canola... Well... It's a good fat overall, but a lot of people have an issue with it being a genetically modified food. (IMO, they're all GMOs anyway though :rolleyes: ).

Sunflower: high in omega 6's, so you just have to make sure your dog gets enough omega 3's

Salmon oil: high in omega 3's, have to make sure you give enough omega 6's.:D

Hmm... Oh

Olive oil: pretty good, but rarely used in pet foods...

Does that help at all?

worrier
March 29th, 2007, 02:23 PM
Hmm... Each has their own pros and cons...

Chicken fat is high in saturated fat, but supposedly they are able to suck the nutrition out of it more efficiently.

Canola... Well... It's a good fat overall, but a lot of people have an issue with it being a genetically modified food. (IMO, they're all GMOs anyway though :rolleyes: ).

Sunflower: high in omega 6's, so you just have to make sure your dog gets enough omega 3's

Salmon oil: high in omega 3's, have to make sure you give enough omega 6's.:D

Hmm... Oh

Olive oil: pretty good, but rarely used in pet foods...

Does that help at all?

NO! :laughing: Still have no clue what to feed him, although I was leaning towards Ocean Blue/Orijen. But then I just found out that bison actually has less cholesterol than anything else, so I want to maybe feed him bison? but then flaxseed is I think the 10th ingredient in WolfKing :yell: grrrrrrrrific! :mad:

But thank you Prin, once again you inform like no other. :) :thumbs up

rainbow
March 29th, 2007, 10:06 PM
Yes, I don't know what we'd do without Prin.....she goes into such great detail explaining things. :angel:

BTW, Worrier, there is no such thing as "the perfect dog food" and what are you feeding your dog while you are *trying* to make a decision? :o

worrier
March 29th, 2007, 10:38 PM
Yes, I don't know what we'd do without Prin.....she goes into such great detail explaining things. :angel:

BTW, Worrier, there is no such thing as "the perfect dog food" and what are you feeding your dog while you are *trying* to make a decision? :o

I have switched him from Wellness to Canidae L&R and am supplementing that with chicken and turkey. Though, I am worried that there is no glucosamine in the Canidae as my guy is extremely active.

As of now, I am planning on switching him over to Ocean Blue and supplementing that with Orijen (which has glucosamine), some butcher meats and maybe some brown rice (I have read that some grains are necessary). :o Would be great to find a food with bison in it, I have looked at Solid Gold WolfKing and TO Bison, but they have flaxseed way too high on the list and I believe that gives him his ear allergy (from my unscientific testing). :o

mafiaprincess
March 29th, 2007, 10:42 PM
Most food has such little glucosamine in it, it's more a marketing ploy, that a help for your dog. So if they truly need it, it would be best to supplement it.

worrier
March 29th, 2007, 10:48 PM
Most food has such little glucosamine in it, it's more a marketing ploy, that a help for your dog. So if they truly need it, it would be best to supplement it.

I always worry about his discs, because for him, being unable to run and "hunt" would be especially devastating (he's extremely active). Orijen actually lists glucosamine at "500mg/kg min."

You're right though, and I am looking into real supplementation as well. :) I want to research it thoroughly first.

rainbow
March 29th, 2007, 11:45 PM
Glucosamine by itself isn't all that great. It's best to have it combined with Chondroitin.

Scott_B
March 30th, 2007, 05:17 AM
I give Rosco Glucosamine/Chondroitin/Msm suppliments each day. I also give him a few duck feet each day which are a more natural form of Glucosamine & Chondroitin.

worrier
March 30th, 2007, 05:37 AM
I give Rosco Glucosamine/Chondroitin/Msm suppliments each day. I also give him a few duck feet each day which are a more natural form of Glucosamine & Chondroitin.

How many milligrams? and where do you get duck feet? My local Loblaws only sells goose feet! :laughing:

Scott_B
March 30th, 2007, 05:51 AM
Goose feet would be great as well. Chicken feet too. There is alocal raw company that sells the duck feet.


Glucosamine sulphate (500 mg), chondroitin sulfate (400 mg) and methyl-sulfonyl-methane (MSM) (400 mg)

He gets two a day. I take them too for my arm, so giving him one reminds me to take mine :p The bottle says take 3 a day however.

rainbow
March 30th, 2007, 01:37 PM
There are also two newer products out now:

1. Celadrin
2. Green Lipped Mussel

worrier
April 10th, 2007, 11:18 PM
Alright well it's been a week since he started eating Canidae L&R exclusively and for a dog that likes almost everything, I am a bit surprised to seem him not taking to this food as he normally takes to anything and everything he finds.

He has, by himself, begun eating once a day (at the end of the day). He won't touch it in the morning (drinks a little), won't touch it in the afternoon (drinks only when exercised) and then gobbles up practically the whole bowl reluctantly in the evening after his final walk (drinks a lot). Is this normal? With Wellness, he was eating three times a day.

His stools seem to be alright. Thinner than normal, but solid enough and not too yellowish.

I'm debating whether to switch him to Ocean Blue, but I've been reading all these stories of weird kibbles (which are probably not the norm) and the TO veil of secrecy puts me off. I still want to get him on a consistent lower protein food and then supplement with Orijen.

Prin
April 11th, 2007, 12:04 AM
That's not too normal.. He probably doesn't like the Canidae too much.:o

What about Orijen, Evo or Barking at the Moon? :o

Goldens4Ever
April 11th, 2007, 12:35 AM
If I may share this. We go to a holistic vet & our two once were on several of Solid Gold's formulas. When I brought up the Millenia formula, she said that she wasn't real fond of that particular one--I can't remember why though.

But, when Solid Gold was in the process of changing their formulas by adding 'Tomato Pomace' to them, why would they not put it in this one, too??

rainbow
April 11th, 2007, 12:45 AM
Alright well it's been a week since he started eating Canidae L&R exclusively and for a dog that likes almost everything, I am a bit surprised to seem him not taking to this food as he normally takes to anything and everything he finds.

What about the California Natural Lamb & Rice? And, then supplementing that with the Orijen?

worrier
April 11th, 2007, 12:49 AM
That's not too normal.. He probably doesn't like the Canidae too much.:o

What about Orijen, Evo or Barking at the Moon? :o

I don't want to feed him 40% protein exclusively, so I'm trying to find a lower protein one to get him on, then I will add the higher protein stuff. Maybe I should try it the other way around? I feel it is important that he enjoys both, because otherwise he will cheat and spit out the ones he doesn't like. Maybe I should try the Canidae chicken and turkey one? The TO stories scare me. :shrug:

Prin
April 11th, 2007, 01:15 AM
Goldens4Ever, it might be the beef. It's "common knowledge" that dogs are prone to beef allergies, but it's not as big a culprit as chicken is now, IMO. It all depends on what foods they got before. Less foods are beef based (other than the super cheap ones and a few holistic ones) and it seems more companies have moved to poultry. :shrug:

Worrier, it wouldn't hurt to try the chicken Canidae... Maybe get a sample if you can.:shrug:

SuperWanda
April 11th, 2007, 09:06 AM
Hi worrier - I was just curious why you want to stay away from the higher protein on it's own?

I'm an Orijen feeder - that's why I ask:)

Goldens4Ever
April 11th, 2007, 11:38 AM
Goldens4Ever, it might be the beef. It's "common knowledge" that dogs are prone to beef allergies, but it's not as big a culprit as chicken is now, IMO. It all depends on what foods they got before. Less foods are beef based (other than the super cheap ones and a few holistic ones)......

True, but Innova RM lists 'beef' as the first ingredient as well. Obviously, it's not the only source of meat in that formula, but it's still there.

worrier
April 11th, 2007, 05:57 PM
Hi worrier - I was just curious why you want to stay away from the higher protein on it's own?

I'm an Orijen feeder - that's why I ask:)

Fear of new things I guess. He's been on 22% for some time (Wellness Chicken), and I'm anxious about going higher than around 30-35%.

SuperWanda
April 12th, 2007, 04:46 PM
Yeh, I felt that way too. Now I find I don't think about it as much anymore because they seem to be enjoying it and they look good.

I also add other fresh foods as well so I usually feed less that what the bag recommends.

I've gotten scared in to thinking if they don't drink enough they're kidney's will suffer so I still add water to the kibble because of my own uneasiness.
I don't know if that is necessary but I do.

From what I've read it seems that it should be just fine for a healthy dog and perhaps even more beneficial in the long run. Apparently the quality of the protein is important as well. No sense in feeding 40% protein if it is low quality protein which is difficult to digest.

Prin
April 12th, 2007, 08:22 PM
True, but Innova RM lists 'beef' as the first ingredient as well. Obviously, it's not the only source of meat in that formula, but it's still there.

Yeah, but RM came out after the beef stigma was gone.:D IMO, there's nothing wrong with MMillenia (or however they spell it), other than that it's a little grainy.

Goldens4Ever
April 13th, 2007, 10:35 PM
Yeah, but RM came out after the beef stigma was gone.:D IMO, there's nothing wrong with MMillenia (or however they spell it), other than that it's a little grainy.

OH, I see. That makes sense then.

Yes, I think it is a bit grainy as well.....maybe that's why she didn't like it much, I don't know exactly.

worrier
April 15th, 2007, 05:39 PM
Well he's liking the All Life Stages one a lot better it seems, so much so that he is separating it from the lamb and rice, nothing a little chicken soup mixed into the meal can't fix. :laughing:

Anyone know where to get this green lipped mussel goodness mentioned above?

rainbow
April 15th, 2007, 07:17 PM
It's an ingredient in the Pernaease and the Sasha's Blend here:

http://www.vetproductsdirect.com.au/usacad/items.asp?Cc=Petjoint&iTpStatus=0&Tp=&Bc

I haven't looked yet but you may be able to purchase it at a health food store. :shrug: